Anyone else hate sandstorms...

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Therefore I propose that sandstorms should be an entertaining challenge, and the focus be moved from "what can we do to allow people to quit out during sandstorms" to "how can we make sandstorms dangerous and still an entertaining environment for rp."

Make sandstorms that blind you now begin taking HP from you instead. No longer are you blinded and/or turned around, you lost five HP each room. It's not going to kill you, in most cases, but it probably will scare you and make you started getting real scared about spiders and bettles and gith and whatever else is in the region with you catching you unawares.

[Lizzie]

I think there's no consideration being made among you who are against some alternative, to people who do NOT live in the cities.

Red Storm is a good example...inside the city, is usually pretty "liveable." But it's a starting location option for new players who might not realize that there's an unwritten law stating you are required to play a ranger if you want to play in Red Storm.

Then there's the human tribes - again, new players don't know that there's the unwritten law that all tribal humans are required to pick ranger as their primary guild.

If people who were meant to -not- live in cities, need to play rangers, then the character generation process should reflect this. Make it so desert elves can ONLY pick ranger as their primary guild. Make it so that anyone with a tribal background have their application rejected if they don't pick ranger.

Not every PC in the game has access to the Byn. Not every PC in the game has the sids to pay a guide. Not every PC in the game is logged in at the same times when a ranger PC is logged in -and- interested in leaving the city at the same time. Not every PC in the game lives in a city and wants to leave it. Some live outside the city, and want to stay that way.

I had a desert elf who wasn't a ranger, and was stuck ONE room away from a quit-safe room for over an hour because I didn't have the climb skill and kept falling. All I wanted to do was climb up and quit so I could make supper. I had no idea I was going to be the only PC in my tribe at the time. In fact, I was invited to create the PC, by another player who was playing a PC in the same tribe. The next day, I learned that player stopped playing. And I was by myself. Not knowing anyone, with no climb skill, and no knowledge of the surrounding area, and there was a storm, that was -still- storming when I finally succeeded in climbing and quitting, and logged back in 3 RL hours later.

I'm not the exception to the rule. Because there is no rule requiring that non-city PCs be rangers. And to expect non-city PCs who aren't rangers, to just "suck it up" or "hire a guide" is pretty insulting.

[Kassindra]

I've been reading and I find it most interesting that people are forgetting what a harsh world Zalanthas is supposed to be. How many city rangers do you know? Rangers grow up for the most part in the harsh world that Zalanthas offers, they SHOULD by right be able to quit out in the places they are familiar with and I think it's a little un-necessary that people what to divert from their CHOSEN role just to be able to quit out in the desert without finding a quit out room there.

If you're a crafter or a merchant, you spend your time in the city to do your work. Let the rangers/hunters go out and get your supplies. Let the people who do escorts do their job, let the rangers and hunters do their job, everyone can't do everything and I personally think it's a bit unfair and that people are forgetting the role that they chose by choice just for a navigate/quit out in the desert perk. Furthermore, why some people think they have this need to go out into the harsh environment when their role doesn't call for it, makes no sense to me and I've met people IG who believe the outside world from the city is dangerous and no place for them to roam about alone and that's how it should be.

I know people are going to go back with the "but i want to explore without having to pick this guild" or "I don't want to depend on people with this guild for things" but that's how it is. I've played a ranger in my short time here and I've also played a non-ranger and you all know each guild gets their own perks.

As for having a subguild that's just to allow you to quit out and navigate; I've come to understand that subguilds are made so you have something to do besides your main job to add a bit of entertainment or kill boredom, so if you want your new subguild to be that you walk the sands and sleep on desert dunes, well..that'll be one heck of an IC story to share.

I will digress however that if you can have a camp command without the ranger navigation that'd be fine.

Toodles.

Edited to add:

I agree a bit with Lizzie with the non-city PC's, atleast they have a reason to be outside the city but it seems most people who are arguing this are city dwellers and however you look at it, you still can't do everything alone. People need one another.

[Malken]

It's funny that guild = role when it fits and guild != role when it also fits the argument.

Again, I think that being able to quit right away for rangers and after five minutes for non-rangers is absolutely fair to every players, and anyone who disagree with this is not thinking about his/her fellow players.

[Kassindra]

Well I've not been here as long as most. Just a few months so I can only go from what I've observed I think Camp is doable and considers everyone atleast. Navigation is a different story however.

[Cutthroat]

..I think that being able to quit right away for rangers and after five minutes for non-rangers is absolutely fair to every player...

This, I agree with. Maybe the amount of time to wait needs to be adjusted, or perhaps some or all of the time can be moved to after you log in, but I agree with the concept.

[AmandaGreathouse]

Well I've not been here as long as most. Just a few months so I can only go from what I've observed I think Camp is doable and considers everyone atleast. Navigation is a different story however.

Definitely. I don't think that everyone should be able to navigate every sandstorm. Hell, leave that to rangers. Like I said, I just want to be able to leave when I need to.

[Qzzrbl]

So long as this anywhere quit can be easily monitered and checked for abuse, I guess I'll be alright with it.

Stuff like, using the anywhere quit in the city, where quit rooms abound, should be looked down upon and get a neg note from Staff.

Too many neg notes = revokage of anywhere quit.

I just don't want a feature like this to wind up being abused.

[Malken]

So long as this anywhere quit can be easily monitered and checked for abuse, I guess I'll be alright with it.

Stuff like, using the anywhere quit in the city, where quit rooms abound, should be looked down upon and get a neg note from Staff.

Too many neg notes = revokage of anywhere quit.

I just don't want a feature like this to wind up being abused.

That wouldn't be a problem, considering that rangers can't quit everywhere in the city.

"It's too noisy here to make a camp."

[Qzzrbl]

Hah, I'd forgotten about that detail.

Even so, I'd like the anywhere quit to be monitered.

Code Select Expand

Quitnow

Quit now? (Y/N)

Y

Reason?

Massive diarrhea , gotta go now.

Thanks!

Mantis Head,

I also wouldn't mind adding an hour, or a thirty-minute timer before a quitnow'er could log back in. To keep it from being used to just go AFK for a couple of minutes.

But I don't think anyone would go with that.

[fourTwenty]

I have been walking back to the city with a forester character, carrying logs, for example, and in the middle of the delay for walking, had a sudden sandstorm pop up,

This is a great example of what I was talking about. The weather in this case did not go from clear to unnavigable during the movement delay. Apparently, it was already pretty stormy and you chose to risk being out anyway and then it picked up just enough.

The quit anywhere thing provides lots of potential for abuse that simply just can't be monitored. I swear, if I could quit anywhere with any guild I would already have the entire known mapped out in my head (I don't use maps). Also, most people would quit out when lost in a storm and then just come back later to check it. Which is using an OOC tool to get around IG conditions. The exact opposite of some of these arguments.

If you have to take trips to gather supplies that's fine, nobody is saying you should have to be a ranger to do so. What they're saying is you should explore the area your going to and the area between it and your city. If your not familiar with an area it's the same as being lost. This "an emergency came" up thing can be solved very easily. First, if your caught in a sandstorm it's your own fault plain and simple. If your caught in one and need to log, tough shit, being lost sucks.(rejoice in the fact that most players wont gank a LD PC.) Second, if your familiar with your area, which you should be if your hauling logs/rocks/water then you should be able to find a quit safe zone quickly. If your not familiar with the area, tough shit, being lost -really- sucks. Last, if it's a real emergency and you absolutely need to log and can't make it to a quit safe room (I honestly can't imagine why you wouldn't be able to other than the aforementioned examples) then you can wish up and hope for the best. People tend to forget that not being familiar with the area around you is the number one killer IRL of anybody out in the wilds.

Still not against a 30 min auto-log though. This seems to be a decent compromise.

[Delstro]

Hah, I'd forgotten about that detail.

Even so, I'd like the anywhere quit to be monitered.

Code Select Expand

Quitnow

Quit now? (Y/N)

Y

Reason?

Massive diarrhea , gotta go now.

Thanks!

Mantis Head,

I also wouldn't mind adding an hour, or a thirty-minute timer before a quitnow'er could log back in. To keep it from being used to just go AFK for a couple of minutes.

But I don't think anyone would go with that.

30 minute auto-log is not reasonable. I prefer Qzzrbl's Idea.

[Qzzrbl]

And a maybe a two or so minute delay before you actually log out too.

You can quitnow and go linkdead, but you'll be out in a couple of minutes afterwards.

So people won't be able to quit away from that band of raiders, or that pack of gortoks that were giving chase.

I really don't see how a thirty-minute auto log isn't reasonable.

I don't want "quitnow" to be something people plan or want to use, for emergencies only.

In truth, I really, -really- don't want such a command in the game in the first place, but if we must, I'd like to see these timers on it.

If people stop venturing out into the desert when they can't see three rooms ahead, then I really don't think we would even really need a quitnow command.

People wander out to hack obsidian and gather wood when they can only see one or two rooms ahead, and then complain when they get caught in a sandstorm. Honestly? I think they're just asking for it.

[fourTwenty]

Just to elaborate on everything Q said. You can even leave the city if all you can see is two rooms away. But when the wind starts to pick up go ahead and head home, don't hang around for "just a few more logs mommy, please".

[Malken]

What the hell, fourTwenty, do we have to write down every single reasons as to why someone would need to log out quickly WITHOUT KNOWING SO THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO for you to understand that
an emergency is something that happens without you being able to do anything about it?

There's a 'camp' command on the two other RPI muds out there and if you ask the admins there, I'm sure that they'll tell you that this option is the least of their worries when it comes to people cheating and
abusing code.

[Lizzie]

To reiterate to 420 and Q...
You are assuming every PC in the game is city-based, or that every PC who isn't city-based is a ranger. You're trying to impose your ideas of "how things should be according to me" on "how things are."

In the game, desert elves do NOT have to be rangers, and are often NOT anywhere near their home base when the weather changes. Often, they have to travel many rooms, and bump into nasty critters, just to get to the trade post, or to the nearest quit-safe room.

In the game, tribal humans have an even worse problem, because they are usually riding mounts. They can't quit in certain quit-safe rooms because they can't bring their mounts with them. Many of these PCs are characters who do -not- leave from the cities, because they are not -from- the cities. Assuming that they can "just" hire a guide, or play only rangers, does not make for fun gaming. It just irritates the shit out of people who want to add something that the chargen allows to the game, and get criticized when we tell you it isn't a matter of "just" doing anything.

[fourTwenty]

What the hell, fourTwenty, do we have to write down every single reasons as to why someone would need to log out quickly WITHOUT KNOWING SO THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO for you to understand that
an emergency is something that happens without you being able to do anything about it?

No but I've yet to see one reason why you can't log out in these situations that isn't your own damn fault.

I've played a D-elf that wasn't a ranger. You know what, it's perfectly fine. Keep your self in familiar territory and you wont get LOST.
Most of this (if not all) is people searching for a coded way around being lost.

Malken, work on your reading skills. I didn't say I couldn't think of a reason someone wouldn't need to quickly log. I said I couldn't think of a reason why they couldn't quickly get to a quit room (other than being LOST which is YOUR OWN FAULT). Lost in the desert kills people, why are you set on not having the game reflect that.

[Malken]

Oh, fuck it.

[Qzzrbl]

Also, some of the complaints were about being out in the desert, getting caught in a storm, and then suddenly have to log off as they were waiting for the storm to subside.

I was talking about how to avoid situations such as that.

Sandstorms are pretty much the only thing keeping anyone from getting to a safe room in less than ten minutes anyhow. Like I was saying earlier, it's not like the cities are at all that far apart, and travel between them is easy as pie. Perhaps with an exception to a certain more storm-prone area.

How many people really have sudden "NEED TO GET OFF NOW" emergencies that happen so often that there needs to be a command made for them?

[Tisiphone]

Oh, fuck it.

Pretty much. Read your sig.

[fourTwenty]

To reiterate to 420 and Q...
You are assuming every PC in the game is city-based, or that every PC who isn't city-based is a ranger. You're trying to impose your ideas of "how things should be according to me" on "how things are."

Who's posts are you reading? I'm not assuming anything nor am I commenting on "how things should be". I'm commenting on "how things currently are IG right now and how they've been for a long time"

In the game, desert elves do NOT have to be rangers, and are often NOT anywhere near their home base when the weather changes. Often, they have to travel many rooms, and bump into nasty critters, just to get to the trade post, or to the nearest quit-safe room.

In the game, tribal humans have an even worse problem, because they are usually riding mounts. They can't quit in certain quit-safe rooms because they can't bring their mounts with them.

Thank you for proving my point. The people who want this skill are either a) wandering way the hell off and getting lost in unfamiliar territory. or b) wandering into bad weather and getting lost. I'm sorry it's just my opinion but getting lost in a "harsh, barren desert" should be pretty close to a death sentence.

You are correct you do not have to be a ranger to be a desert wanderer just don't expect it to be easy. Searching for a quit room is the equivalent of having to search for a safe place to camp. A camp command would be fine as long as it came with a pretty hefty timer. To simulate the fact that your having to search for a safe place to camp.

Also, some of the complaints were about being out in the desert, getting caught in a storm, and then suddenly have to log off as they were waiting for the storm to subside.

I was talking about how to avoid situations such as that.

Sandstorms are pretty much the only thing keeping anyone from getting to a safe room in less than ten minutes anyhow. Like I was saying earlier, it's not like the cities are at all that far apart, and travel between them is easy as pie. Perhaps with an exception to a certain more storm-prone area.

[staggerlee]

I'm of the mind that rather than neutering sandstorms or giving everyone wilderness quit there should be a third option.
I don't think there should be events in the game that you quit to avoid.   It's bad rp, and it runs counter to the whole point of the game - if nobody will stay online during  a sandstorm, something is wrong.

Therefore I propose that sandstorms should be an entertaining challenge, and the focus be moved from "what can we do to allow people to quit out during sandstorms" to "how can we make sandstorms dangerous and still an entertaining environment for rp."

There seem to be two arguments going on here based on two different things:

1)  Getting stuck in sandstorms and having to quit out.
2)  Having to quit out immediately due to unforeseen emergencies.

Regarding #1: I strongly suggest rereading my post here. There are better ways to resolve the issue than allowing everyone to quit out.  I don't believe anyone should be forced to quit out because of weather, ranger or no.

Regarding #2:  This should, and does have its own thread.  The idea has merit, but isn't really a discussion about sandstorms.  In a pinch, this one will do:  http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,32921.0.html  But I'm sure there are others as well.

[evil_erdlu]

I should say it's always possible to know that there's a storm, because as far as I know there are 'areas' with different weather values, so you can leave one area and enter another during your travel. You won't know if there's going to be a storm when you come back. There _are_ three-hour-long storms that get you stuck. Also, to answer "Do people have that many emergencies?", I'm an R&D firm owner who may feel forced to shift his attention from the game to a customer/partner/worker 24/7. At 2am a programmer may call me and I may be forced to explain him some pseudo code for half an hour. So I go idle a lot, sometimes even feel forced to dro link. I am sure other people may have similar professions forcing them away from the computer. Still....

Don't play the game if you don't know the rules. One must always have a contingency plan, be it going to a completely different outpost, contacting a friendly magicker/ranger etc, or simply walking into the closest quitsafe spot. You can't _always_ have a contingency but.. this is a game. Wish up "wish all I am really forced to go linkdead this instant, please log me out. Forgive me very much, I really gotta jet.", go linkdead and hope for the best.

If a command 'camp' is introduced, I would love it. I don't know how many times I typed 'camp' at the beginning days of my second character - first died very quick -, I don't think anyone would manage to abuse it if the delay is 10 minutes or more. 5 minutes? Nay.. I can lose a raider quickly and his 'hunting' me would take more than 5, but less than 10. But if such command is not introduced, so be it. As other posters mentioned - a tad bit too agreessively - we do have to account for environmental hazards. People accept less combat ability by picking rangers over warriors, there needs to be some advantage to that.

[FantasyWriter]

God forbid some of you with wagons from having PC caravans.  (wagons are quit safe)

[Delstro]

Player Friendly = More Players

Making it take 7-10 minutes to effectively log out anywhere is a good way to make me feel better about going outside.

Add wilderness to a level 1 karma required subguild and the twinking would be minimal.