Anyone else hate sandstorms...

[drunkendwarf]

TAKE. A. RANGER.

I get rather tired of this argument. Because rangers aren't uber enough.

• the only class to be able to hitch multiple
• the only class to be able to quit out anywhere
• the only class able to forage for food
• the only class that has a high enough ride skill to ride with something in each hand, AFAIK
• the only class with a high enough ride not to get the damn 'refuses to move' with the new ride code, AFAIK

Rangers, AFAIK, are the only class that just gets innate stuff for being a ranger.
Hitching multiple mounts isn't a skill - you just get it.
The ability to forage for food isn't a skill - you just get it.
The ability to quit out anywhere isn't a skill - you just get it.

Now, on top of all this, they're the only class able to navigate a storm. And it isn't a skill - you just get it.
Rangers already have a ridiculously large set of skills, when they rack up a decent amount of play time.

So - I if I'd like to play a desert wanderer, but I'm fed up with rangers (because of the above statements) I'm just effed. I have to play a ranger, unless I want to spend hours staring at the screen or run the risk of having my character die while link dead because I got caught in a storm and had to go to work. I'm restricted to the skill set of a ranger - regardless of whether I want a completely different character concept.

I had given many solutions to this in a long ago post. Here are a few:

1) Allow another guild or a subguild to navigate sandstorms. Caravan guide maybe?

Caravan guides are skilled in desert travel

2) Allow another guild or subguild to navigate sandstorms - but only for themselves. Everyone following is on their own.
3) Allow people to quit out in a sandstorm. Make it take 5 minutes. Make it require a tent in your inventory. Make it require a full waterskin in your inventory. I don't care - just make it possible somehow. I find it hard to believe that the people of a desert planet don't have some way to deal with a sandstorm. You'd think at the very least, they would know how to hunker down and weather the storm, provided they have the proper equipment to deal with it. The argument that if you go link dead and come back to a dead character that they must have simply died in the sandstorm seems ridiculous to me. Anyone wandering the desert with the proper equipment should be able to weather the storm, especially on a planet like Zalanthas.
4) Allow some combination of equipment grant you the ability to navigate a sandstorm. Sunsilts + facewrap + storm cloak + whatever else seems appropriate.

[Gimfalisette]

I get rather tired of this argument. Because rangers aren't uber enough.

• the only class to be able to hitch multiple
• the only class to be able to quit out anywhere
• the only class able to forage for food
• the only class that has a high enough ride skill to ride with something in each hand, AFAIK
• the only class with a high enough ride not to get the damn 'refuses to move' with the new ride code, AFAIK

Rangers, AFAIK, are the only class that just gets innate stuff for being a ranger.
Hitching multiple mounts isn't a skill - you just get it.
The ability to forage for food isn't a skill - you just get it.
The ability to quit out anywhere isn't a skill - you just get it.

Some of your beliefs are incorrect.

[fourTwenty]

1) Allow another guild or a subguild to navigate sandstorms. Caravan guide maybe?

Caravan guides are skilled in desert travel

I actually don't think this would be a horrible idea.

I find it hard to believe that the people of a desert planet don't have some way to deal with a sandstorm.

I imagine they would handle it much like desert people in real life. Avoid at any and all costs getting caught out in a sandstorm, plan ahead.

4) Allow some combination of equipment grant you the ability to navigate a sandstorm. Sunsilts + facewrap + storm cloak + whatever else seems appropriate.

You should definitely ask around IG.

[Qzzrbl]

I'd like to see sunslits and other proper gear make desert navigation easier.

I'd like to see certain subguilds get safe desert travel.

I'm still against anyone but desert rangers quitting in the desert.

If you're going out into the desert, and you're not a ranger, and don't have a ranger or a guide, don't do it. The desert is dangerous. The desert is harsh. The desert doesn't care if you get caught in a sandstorm and suddenly have to quit out.

Hire a guide.

Make desert guiding actually a profitable occupation again.

[AmandaGreathouse]

The desert is dangerous. The desert is harsh.

Agreed. And it's perfectly logical that it should be.

The desert doesn't care if you get caught in a sandstorm and suddenly have to quit out.

You're right. It doesn't. The desert is IC, quitting is OOC.

[X-D]

Playing a desert dwelling PC that is not a mage, ranger or delf is actually pretty easy. I've never had the problem many of you talk about with waiting for hours for weather to clear. For two main reasons. First, somewhere in the docs it says to find better weather, move upwind. This actually works in 90% of the areas.

Second, quit safe rooms are actually abundant and pretty easy to find. I've been thinking about it and I really cannot think of any wilderness areas where you can get more then 20 rooms from a quit safe, almost half of them are even mount quit safe now days.

I've found the recent changes to weather code to be about perfect IMO, so now it is even easier to survive in the desert since when the echo says the wind got weaker and changes direction, it actually does.

Course, if I was in charge I would appease you all by simply adding a new subclass for each of the ranger perks, Not even name them, just option AA: wilderness quit, BB: forage food CC: perfect direction. But you would forgo any other subclass skills so you could make a celf burgler with wilderness quit if you wanted,

[musashi]

I have to agree with X-D in that, the one time I played a non-ranger character, they lived in the wilds as well, and at first I was very worried that it was going to be impossible to survive without the coded ranger abilities ... but ... I was pleasantly surprized.

Of course I wasn't living in Red Storm or anywhere near the Red Desert.

[Qzzrbl]

The desert doesn't care if you get caught in a sandstorm and suddenly have to quit out.

You're right. It doesn't. The desert is IC, quitting is OOC.

And if you can't come to terms with that, don't go into the desert.

Or hire a guide.

[SMuz]

I'd actually like it if there was the ability to quit in the wilderness. I think everyone should be able to set camp anywhere, not just rangers. I don't really have the time (or stamina) to search around all the rooms, trying to find a quit-safe one when I have to leave in a hurry. Sandstorms are probably the biggest reason I avoid playing the game and quit early sometimes - because I don't want to get caught in one 5 minutes before going out for lunch.

I think the "quit anywhere" thing should be given to everyone.. but outside city sandstorms should be harsher and rangers should probably get a "look in sandstorms" skill or something, which would make them great guides. After all, if they were guiding someone through a sandstorm and were the only ones who could stay in a camp (quit), it won't be realistic to the others anyway.

[Qzzrbl]

Maybe I'm missing something....

But if people would stop braving the dangerous wastes by themselves and hired a guide every time they did, there wouldn't be a problem.

If you know you need to get off soon, and don't want to go linkdead in a sandstorm, then don't go outside the gates.

If you simply -must- go about the desert on your own, take a ranger guide with you, an experienced one who can point out quit-safe rooms in the wilderness. They're everywhere, trust me.

It's really easy people.

Don't want to die in a sandstorm?

Don't go outside the gates without a guide.

The desert is a dangerous place.

If you tried to brave a sandstorm and got caught up, and suddenly have to leave. Wish up to the Staff. If there aren't any Staff around to log you out, then you're just shit out of luck.

Welcome to Armageddon.

[AmandaGreathouse]

Look, not everyone has the luxury of peak playing time or consistent access to another pc, especially when they already have to work around their husbands play schedule, let alone the rest of RL, but then I have to track down another pc, and pray to fucking god they have the skillset I want without guildsniffing them, then pray to fucking god that our schedules match up just fucking right? No. Fuck that. Sorry, but I don't have the luxury, especially when, at the times -I- play, there are typically 7 players in the -game- other than me. Nope, sorry, but that doesn't work. But hey, while we're on the subject of horribly inconveniencing people for the reason of making subguilds more attractive, lets completely take away the PC ability to heal, except 2-3 hp per IC day. Make them -really- need a physician, you know, because I want a physician to be more profitable and needed. No. I may be horribly opposed to people sleeping off 'death's door' style wounds, but I'm not going to try and inconvenience the hell out of everybody. Fuck, it's a game. It's a really, really awesome game, but making -everything- for -everyone- dependent on one guild or maybe two subguilds, especially when they are as likely as not to even -see- another pc in a four hour session. No. Sorry. No.

The desert doesn't care if you get caught in a sandstorm and suddenly have to quit out.

You're right. It doesn't. The desert is IC, quitting is OOC.

And if you can't come to terms with that, don't go into the desert.

Or hire a guide.

-my- point there is that quitting is an ooc command. that you shouldn't be penalized for not being a ranger just because you have RL issues come up. simply telling me that if I don't like the way it is I shouldn't go into the desert is a waste of time and energy, on a par with someone telling someone else to leave america if they don't like the way the government runs it.

Why should I -have- to pray to god against all hope that I can find another pc who:
has my playtimes
on my side of the world
who has the skills that I need
who gets along decently with my character
that I have the money to pay


That's a strict and unlikely met set of criteria for people who only have access to play regularly when there are 7 other players logged in. Most likely with at least one of them bar idling and one in an iso tribe and two having mudsex. Sorry. And, really, the worst part of the list, is that over half of the necessary criteria to meet with your suggestion, are -also- completely ooc. Sorry. No.

[jhunter]

I get rather tired of this argument. Because rangers aren't uber enough.

• the only class to be able to hitch multiple
• the only class to be able to quit out anywhere
• the only class able to forage for food
• the only class that has a high enough ride skill to ride with something in each hand, AFAIK
• the only class with a high enough ride not to get the damn 'refuses to move' with the new ride code, AFAIK

Rangers, AFAIK, are the only class that just gets innate stuff for being a ranger.
Hitching multiple mounts isn't a skill - you just get it.
The ability to forage for food isn't a skill - you just get it.
The ability to quit out anywhere isn't a skill - you just get it.

Some One of your beliefs are incorrect.

[fourTwenty]

AmandaGreathouse:

Your problem is easily solved with 1 of 2 solutions:

1. Play a Ranger

Don't want to do that? No worries, see suggestion 2 !

2.Plan you outings better.

Your welcome,


Edit to add: Seriously, I haven't been caught in a sandstorm in a RL year. They're not hard to avoid at all.

[SMuz]

I agree with what Amanda is saying. The problem is that it horribly inconveniences players. That breaks one of the biggest 'rules' of game design - finding a way to fight the system, rather than concentrating on having fun.

I don't see why I have to type "quit test" in every room 'just in case I have to go' whenever I'm playing a non-ranger. I don't see why I have to OOC memorize all the quit zones just to be able to quit when I really have to. It's not just the problem of being stuck in a sandstorm. It's the problem of being far away from home and not having the stamina to drag yourself back to a safe spot within the hour.

It's true that getting stuck in sandstorms are rare, but I sure as hell don't want to be lost in one and going link-dead because someone asks me to join him for lunch. And I don't want to sacrifice my social life because of a game. When you have to go, you have to go. It's ridiculous in a friend's eyes that I can't stop playing this game otherwise the character I've worked on for 3 months could possibly die.

Abusing quitting to get out of a sandstorm should be treated like any other RP abuse in the game, like quitting after a theft, twinking, etc. Other than that it should be completely allowed in case of emergencies.

Yes, the desert is a dangerous place. It should be. But I'd rather it's shown in more IC ways, like a "getting lost" code where non-rangers in the middle of a desert or forest will randomly go the wrong direction. Or make them get thirsty faster. Just don't force people to give up their RL time for a game.

[AmandaGreathouse]

AmandaGreathouse:

Your problem is easily solved with 1 of 2 solutions:

1. Play a Ranger

Don't want to do that? No worries, see suggestion 2 !

2.Plan you outings better.

Your welcome,


Edit to add: Seriously, I haven't been caught in a sandstorm in a RL year. They're not hard to avoid at all.

I have done plenty of planning on my outings. And I should not -have- to play 1 guild out of about 13 just to be able to function with -anyone- outside a city. I have been walking back to the city with a forester character, carrying logs, for example, and in the middle of the delay for walking, had a sudden sandstorm pop up, weather <every direction in turn> and it's all over. Yeah. Because planning keeps random shit from happening with the movement delay. Hell, I'm all for coded harshness, but not being able to leave a -game- for a REAL LIFE thing, when you NEED to, without risking, say, a 100 day character, is total BS. See, the point of this is, you can say all day that I need to "plan better", or "play a ranger". That doesn't say why -everyone but rangers is totally shit on in case of the slightest emergency unless they want to lose a character they have invested lost of time, energy and thought, not to mention emotion, into.

[Zira]

allow me to quote myself on an OOC comment I had to make earlier today: "I'm really sorry, but I was just told I have to leave -right now-. I really wish I'd had some warning to this."

Try being told, with absolutely no warning, or any way at all of knowing ahead of time that you had to leave,that you have to leave right that instant, or within 3 minutes. That creates problems regardless of where you are, or what you're doing. Because now you need to find an IC reason to leave, and fast.

Not a case of bad planning, but a case of lack of OOC knowledge or even intuition about other people's plans. I was just fortunate enough to already be indoors, and near a quit safe room, with a friend. I would've caught hell OOC if I had taken more than 3 minutes to log out. And if I had lost a character over it, I would've -given- sufficient hell to cost me the rest of my Arm 'career'

That isn't all. There are other times when I'm told without warning that I have to get off the comp, or do something that pulls me away from Arm for as long as 2-3 hours. What do I do if I want to leave the city?

[musashi]

Since the thread seems to have taken a turn into: Should non-rangers be able to quit in the wilderness? I'll add my 2 cents on it.

Truth be told, I'm undecided. I mean, I agree that when someone has to go for RL, they have to go! However, I think the rangers only thing is also a bit of a safe mechinism against possible twinkery, just like the fact that you can't quit out after attacking something.

I've played a non ranger character who lived in the desert and never went into any cities unless it was to sell something, and it was no problem avoiding sandstorms. I've honestly never had a sandstorm that was movement confusing spring up on me in between a single movement delay. A non-movement confusing sandstorm? Yes ... but usually the code seems to make it so that the outskirts of the sandstorm are able to be navigated, and only the inner core is so extreme as to confuse your movement. But again, all my PC's live in the north so I admit this might not hold true south of the shield wall. Anyway the point is ... when I needed to quit out, it was never a big problem for me getting out of the game within about 3-5 minutes.

Zira's statement about sometimes just needing to quit out for unforeseen OOC reasons RIGHT NOW holds weight but ... ok lets say anyone could quit anywhere ... but Zira had just finished killing a shik when she found out she had to leave RIGHT NOW. Are we gonna have threads about how its not fair to have a delay on quitting after combat then? Where's the line?

[Zira]

Zira's statement about sometimes just needing to quit out for unforeseen OOC reasons RIGHT NOW holds weight but ... ok lets say anyone could quit anywhere ... but Zira had just finished killing a shik when she found out she had to leave RIGHT NOW. Are we gonna have threads about how its not fair to have a delay on quitting after combat then? Where's the line?

Under those circumstances, I wouldn't mind the wait if I can get to a quit safe room quickly. I can have my client log me out after a designated time if I have to leave quickly in a quit-safe room. But if I'm stuck in a sandstorm, I can't have my client navigate for me.

I agree that quitting after combat shouldn't be allowed (though it can be annoying if something comes up right after sparring practice). The only problem I have, is when IG conditions conspire against you. I've been fortunate enough not to have that happen, but I'm well aware of just how frustrating such can be.

My vote is for, extremely delayed quit outside of quit-safe rooms, or automatic logout if you're linkdead for more than x minutes.

[Lizzie]

I think automatic logout after 30 minutes of idleness would really solve this whole mess. And if the game can't tell if you're linkdead or merely idle..it could send a beep and a text message like it does when you log in and sit there idle for more than a minute.

<beep>
You have been idle too long. Please enter something, or you will be logged out.

(no response after 10 seconds)
<logout>

That way, people who -want- to be logged in, but idle, can be. They just have to be paying attention or set up a trigger to input something when that message pops up. And people who -don't- want to be logged in, can go on and do whatever they need to do in RL and not worry about the game sucking their character into oblivion after 30 minutes of being afk.

[Qzzrbl]

simply telling me that if I don't like the way it is I shouldn't go into the desert is a waste of time and energy, on a par with someone telling someone else to leave america if they don't like the way the government runs it.

Not really....

It's more like, "Your character was likely raised to believe that the desert is a very dangerous place, whereas most rangers have practically lived in the desert for a good portion of their lives. Your character was possibly raised to believe that the desert is a dangerous place for good reason. Gith, beetles, scrab, deadly sandstorms and nowhere safe to take a nap."

What happens to most characters if they quit out in the desert? What do they do in that virtual time when you're gone? Do they just wander around? You know what happens to non-rangers who just wander around in the desert? Bad things. Either they get caught in a sandstorm and get lost and die of thirst, they get eaten by a clutch of mantis, whatever. Rangers are people who typically make a living by reading the land, and best know how to avoid these types of things.

I'm sorry you play off-peak, it happens.

There are more quit rooms out in the wilderness than you think. It'd probably be a good venture to find them, if your character absolutely -must- travel from city to city when there are only 5 characters online. It's not like the cities are really all that far apart anyway.

I'm just really not in favor of making the game any easier.

I can hardly catch any of the "harshness" and danger of desert travel I hear people buzzing about with the way it is right now, even.

[Zoan]

Am I the only one who notices that there's a permanent bloody sandstorm in Vrun Driath/Allanak? Fuck me, it's a desert, sure, but it's not a bloody permanent hurricane.

[Delstro]

I am definately in favor of making a subguild or two that has wilderness quit and sandstorm navigation.

If it gets abused by everyone, then you have two options, remove it completely, or make it a Karma level 1 Subguild.
Problem solved. I'd definately be in favor of making the game more player friendly.

[staggerlee]

I'm of the mind that rather than neutering sandstorms or giving everyone wilderness quit there should be a third option.
I don't think there should be events in the game that you quit to avoid.   It's bad rp, and it runs counter to the whole point of the game - if nobody will stay online during  a sandstorm, something is wrong.

Therefore I propose that sandstorms should be an entertaining challenge, and the focus be moved from "what can we do to allow people to quit out during sandstorms" to "how can we make sandstorms dangerous and still an entertaining environment for rp."

[AmandaGreathouse]

I'm of the mind that rather than neutering sandstorms or giving everyone wilderness quit there should be a third option.
I don't think there should be events in the game that you quit to avoid.   It's bad rp, and it runs counter to the whole point of the game - if nobody will stay online during  a sandstorm, something is wrong.

Therefore I propose that sandstorms should be an entertaining challenge, and the focus be moved from "what can we do to allow people to quit out during sandstorms" to "how can we make sandstorms dangerous and still an entertaining environment for rp."

For the record, I don't want to quit out because I'm in a sandstorm, I want to quit out to go to the emergency room, or take the hour-long phone call from my mother about my grandma's heart-attack, or what-have-you. I don't even care if a sandstorm is there, for that matter. It's about as likely to make me log out as nighttime. Not. I am talking about completely ooc things.

[Malken]

A good middle ground would be to allow rangers to quit out right away, and non-rangers to be able to quit out after five minutes of uninterrupted time.

Sort of like the 'camp' command in Harshlands or SoI..

Saying that you shouldn't be able to quit in a reasonable short amount of time (at least five minutes after an 'emergency' comes up) is totally ridiculous and unfair.

Yes, because life is unpredictable, we should just all be playing rangers or stick close to the city when we wake up in the morning with a slight feeling to the back of our mind that today
might be the day where we might have to quit a game right away, due to an unpredictable emergency.

This is something that should have been thought about and fixed a few years ago, in my opinion.

If I want to cheat, there's a thousand other things I can do on Armageddon other than 'quitting out' to escape some random raiders.