Anyone else hate sandstorms...

[Cerelum]

Prompt
l
You can't see a thing; sand swirls about you!

Prompt
time
It is late morning on Terrin, the 79th day of the Ascending Sun,
In the Year of Desert's Defiance, year 47 of the 21st Age.

Prompt
The wind changes direction.
The wind slows down a little.

Prompt
The winds pick up without warning, triggering a whirling sandstorm.

Prompt
l
You can't see a thing; sand swirls about you!

Prompt
weather
It is a hot day.
A tremendous sandstorm whips stinging dust from the west across the land.
Jihae, the red moon, is high in the sky.

Prompt
The howling winds decrease slightly and the storm subsides.

Prompt
weather
It is a hot day.
A tremendous sandstorm whips stinging dust from the west across the land.
Jihae, the red moon, is high in the sky.

Promptl
You can't see a thing; sand swirls about you!

Prompt
ooc Are you kidding me?
You say, out of character:
     "Are you kidding me?"

[Dar]

There are some areas in Zalanthas where some amount of sand exists. On occasion it piles up and we fail to detect it. The winds our weather control system sends to properly recycle the air flow tend to pick that sand up and whirl it about a little. Which causes an occasional sandstorm effect, sorry for inconvenience. Please enjoy the rest of our sand free world.

[Lizzie]

I think the argument isn't that we -have- sandstorms, or even that we have them frequently in certain areas. I think the OP is protesting that the game echo -clearly- indicates that the sandstorm has just subsided - and yet when he types 'weather' it shows that the sandstorm is just as nasty as it was a second ago.

I've experienced this too and it IS ridiculous. If the game echo is telling me that the storm has just subsided, then give me at least 45 seconds to do SOMETHING before it picks back up again. Being stuck in a sandstorm, unable to quit out of the game because you're not a ranger with ranger-quit, for 45 minutes in a row, is not playable. You might as well make everything outside the gates of the nearest safe-area off limits to anyone other than rangers - and even a ranger will get lost in certain storms, so that isn't even foolproof.

It's the change in echo, with zero change in condition, that is the biggest issue. If the game is TELLING me that the storm just went away, then the storm should go away. At least long enough for me to move to the next room without getting lost.

[Tisiphone]

I think the OP's just griping. A perfectly good use of this board.

I still think the other posts have their own merit, though. Let's talk about weather?

I'm on the fence. On the one hand, I like Arm's weather; it really drives home the point about the harsh environment. I don't want sandstorms to just be ignored, the way they pretty much are now when they're not up to the, "You idiot, why are you walking around now, you can't even see past your eyelashes," level. However, blinding sandstorms ALL THE TIME puts a real strain on playability.

Perhaps we could have a system with more serious, coded gradations between the two states of perfectly clear and absolutely blinding, with the latter happening somewhat less often (replaced by really really really harsh, but still operable)? We could even make it as simple as saying that walking through a sandstorm puts a greater strain on your stam than walking through clear weather. Maybe there should be a point where you can see the room you're in, but not any of the adjacent rooms.

Thoughts? I'm hesitant to ask for this to be implemented, because I don't know how broadly and negatively or positively it might affect game balance between guilds and activities. I don't want to penalize solo rangers (any more than making sure they know that being a solo ranger is, frankly, not a good way to survive unless you KNOW the game world), and I don't want to make cities unplayable either.

For my part, I see on the one hand that it might make archery more powerful and more usable by allowing attempted shots or different gradations in penalties for a greater share of the time. It might also make traveling a good bit more dangerous.

[SMuz]

I'd like to see sandstorms being less common and less harsher (especially within the city) BUT when there is a sandstorm, you'll get lost in it. Like a non-ranger char would type "north" and have a 10% chance of ending up going west.

I really hate sandstorms when I want to quit urgently or when I have only half an hour on the game. It's also not cool that a person who's memorized the map could just ignore the sandstorm completely sometimes.

[Jingo]

No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.

Even at night.

[Sokotra]

From what I understand, cities are (or should be) slightly protected from sandstorms.. but not all that much.  The cities aren't high-tech biodomes.  The walls might lessen the effects a little, but you should still have sandstorms in the cities.

[Cerelum]

Trust me, I get that sandstorms are something the game has, and I don't hate them indifferently, I just think that they do need to go away.  Yes there are sandstorms where you can't see your hand in front of your face, but not every day, all day.

Just have it follow the echos that say it went away and it probably would be cool.

JaRoD

[drunkendwarf]

I started a thread on this a couple years ago.

I think there needs to be -some- way to deal with sandstorms, regardless of what guild you are. Even if the only thing you can do as a non-ranger is quit out and play later. I'm all for as harsh as they are - but it's the shits when you have to leave in 30 minutes and just sit there watching the clock tick down as you're stuck in a sandstorm and can't do shit. I've lost a character because I had to just cut link and go to work, and I got caught in the storm a full hour and a hour before I needed to be at work. Granted, durations have been cut quite a bit since then, severity of storms has even been cut down quite a bit. But it still severely cuts down on playability when you're stuck in one with a time limit. Everyone should have some OOC way of quitting out of the game, or some other way to deal with a sandstorm, when the need arises.

How hard would it be, code wise, to allow anyone to quit out in the middle of a sandstorm?

[a strange shadow]

I'd like to see a camp command that takes 5 minutes.

Rangers can still insta-quit.

[Rhyden]

I think the real question is:

Why are there not more weathered storm rangers and dirty dune traders to guide common folk across the perilous desert so that we can avoid those

You say, out of character:
     "Are you kidding me?"

sort of situations.

[spicemustflow]

No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities. No sandstorms in cities.

Even at night.

I agree completely. But, speaking of open desert, I'd like even more storms and they should rend the flesh from the traveler's bones unless he's properly equipped. And no camp making in five minute for city dwellers. Only ones who, by logic, know how to make a camp (regardless of class) are tribals delfs, and people who've received special training in game. Make it a skill that can be learned. Just like it is actually. It would be very jarring if a rinthi elf or a silky aide could camp in the relative safety in the middle of the Red Desert.

[X-D]

and even a ranger will get lost in certain storms,

Untrue. Rangers are immune to anything that would cause any other class to get lost code wise. No matter what the move echo says,they do not get lost, the player might, but that is not the same thing.

As to this....

rend the flesh from the traveler's bones

Um...No. In order for large enough chunks of sand and stone to be flying at the speed that would "rend flesh from bones" You would be moving through the air at the same speed as the sand, so sand rending your flesh would be the least of your worries.

[Pantoufle]

I'd like to see a camp command that takes 5 minutes.

Rangers can still insta-quit.

Well, to be fair the act of quitting is an OOC act.  I don't like any coded function which prevents people from returning to the real world. 

For the sake of argument, should we then implement a code which forces city based guilds to "tuck themselves in" or "find a vacant cot in the Gaj dormitory" before logging out?

(Or did you mean a camp command for non-rangers so that they're not forced to drop link if something requires them to leave in a hurry?  That I'd like to see too.)

[a strange shadow]

(Or did you mean a camp command for non-rangers so that they're not forced to drop link if something requires them to leave in a hurry?  That I'd like to see too.)

Exactly what I meant.

[fourTwenty]

I think the real question is:

Why are there not more weathered storm rangers and dirty dune traders to guide common folk across the perilous desert so that we can avoid those

You say, out of character:
     "Are you kidding me?"

sort of situations.

TAKE. A. RANGER.

Seriously, this kind of shit is your own fault. I've never seen it go from clear to unnavigable save for a certain area that's coded different (but even then after a few minutes it goes right back to where it was.). If you're leaving the city when it's not clear or staying out as the weather starts to get worse then it's your own damn fault. I never leave the city if I can't see more than two rooms away, and if I can only see two rooms away and the wind starts to pick up I take my ass home immediately.

Moral of the story: Keep your non-ranger ass in the city if the weather's not clear or TAKE. A. RANGER.

Edit to add: Yall keep saying that quitting is an OOC thing being affected by IG conditions. But your in that situation in the first place because you ignored IG conditions to start with. Careful planning is the most important part of any desert trip and most people ignore it.

[staggerlee]

I don't think quitting out is a particularly elegant solution to hostile ic circumstances.  As Fourtwenty and others have hinted at.
In fact... it's pretty much the opposite of the kind of behaviour that's expected.

[Riev]

Careful planning is the most important part of any desert trip and most people ignore it.

Usually man, I think you tend to go overboard with the arguments, but this is SPOT fucking ON. There are some rooms where I've gone from "The air is silent" to "Jesus christ why did you even move into here?" and its taken me 20 minutes to find a way out. My dumb ass didn't check the weather. If you leave the city, and there is already a horrible sandstorm, don't go out. If you have work in half an hour, don't leave the city. If you have -any- inkling that you may have to quit out soon, don't leave the city.

Emergencies happen. Some people on the GDB hate having to quit out in quit safe rooms, other think it adds to the reality. We've said before that most people don't use the GDB, so if you're going to make an argument, I say make it clear and concise. Is it an OOC thing to quit? List out the reasons why, and give examples. Counter points before they come up. Make it a discussion, not a QQ fest.

[Qzzrbl]

I think the real question is:

Why are there not more weathered storm rangers and dirty dune traders to guide common folk across the perilous desert so that we can avoid those

You say, out of character:
     "Are you kidding me?"

sort of situations.

TAKE. A. RANGER.

Seriously, this kind of shit is your own fault. I've never seen it go from clear to unnavigable save for a certain area that's coded different (but even then after a few minutes it goes right back to where it was.). If you're leaving the city when it's not clear or staying out as the weather starts to get worse then it's your own damn fault. I never leave the city if I can't see more than two rooms away, and if I can only see two rooms away and the wind starts to pick up I take my ass home immediately.

Moral of the story: Keep your non-ranger ass in the city if the weather's not clear or TAKE. A. RANGER.

Edit to add: Yall keep saying that quitting is an OOC thing being affected by IG conditions. But your in that situation in the first place because you ignored IG conditions to start with. Careful planning is the most important part of any desert trip and most people ignore it.

<3

[Tisiphone]

Right now, if you leave because of a sandstorm, you go linkdead and you stand there. You already have much better chance of surviving linkdead than you "should", since the timer for hunger and thirst turn off.

If you come back to your terminal with a dead character, your PC wandered of into the sandstorm and DIED IN A SANDSTORM, which is completely possible.

Do I agree it should happen this way in a game? I dunno. But it being inconvenient isn't a -great- argument.

[evil_erdlu]

Last time I was stuck outside, I waited for three RL hours, then made my way to another spot where I can quit.

Did that piss me off? Yes it did. Did I have a chance to know that there would be a storm? Nope.. I started travelling in clear weather, moved to another area with no storm, when I got back, the clear weather in the first area was a 'tremendous' storm... For three RL hours. Being a newbie I didn't know any quitsafe locations in the second area. I was stuck about 10 leagues away from my goal for hours.

But right now my character has a Bio entry about how the f*ck he managed to get his a** to Location X and I have fun memories about it. So.. yes, storms are greatly disturbing but we can't control everything. Sometimes the story requires a stupid death. Sometimes the story requires a dwarf swearing he will *beep* *beep* *beep* every whiran and elkran he ever meets.

I feel lowering the storm's power is the same as weakening the large bugs around Allanak. Without the fear of meeting one, outdoors travel would be less fun.

[Qzzrbl]

Or people could just start hiring desert guides.

Because really, that's not a terribly profitable profession anymore these days.

[Qzzrbl]

I'm also in favor of more Gith raiding major roads and generic NPC highwaymen, and dangerous wildlife being more frequent.

I've made it from Red Storm to Tuluk without seeing so much as a scrab or carru, and I was actively looking for them.

Traveling is too safe, IMHO.

Wanna hire the Byn for an escort?

What's really the point?

Just a waste of coin.

[Riev]

Traveling is too safe, IMHO.

Wanna hire the Byn for an escort?

What's really the point?

Just a waste of coin.

This. A thousand times, this. I'm sure that having badass NPCs on the road feels rather safe, but it'd give the Byn a reason to do the escorts they're so used to doing, not to mention giving city-state militias shit to do.

Oh no! A family of scrabs has taken over the North Road? Allanak, ATTACK.

[LittleLostThief]

Complaining about sandstorms aside, to answer a question of the OP...

Imagine that sandstorms exist on a 0 - 1000 scale.  I'm just making up the numbers.

0 - 100 is clear.
101 - 250 = Gritty...
So on and so forth.

When you get the message that the sandstorm lessons some, you are seeing a negative number applied to the force of the sandstorm.  It is effectively jumping a random number of notches down, although this jump might not be enough to actually change the sandstorm message you get with the "weather" command.  The sandstorm IS lessened, just not enough to make a significant difference to the "classification" of the storm.  Yet.

[drunkendwarf]

TAKE. A. RANGER.

I get rather tired of this argument. Because rangers aren't uber enough.

• the only class to be able to hitch multiple
• the only class to be able to quit out anywhere
• the only class able to forage for food
• the only class that has a high enough ride skill to ride with something in each hand, AFAIK
• the only class with a high enough ride not to get the damn 'refuses to move' with the new ride code, AFAIK

Rangers, AFAIK, are the only class that just gets innate stuff for being a ranger.
Hitching multiple mounts isn't a skill - you just get it.
The ability to forage for food isn't a skill - you just get it.
The ability to quit out anywhere isn't a skill - you just get it.

Now, on top of all this, they're the only class able to navigate a storm. And it isn't a skill - you just get it.
Rangers already have a ridiculously large set of skills, when they rack up a decent amount of play time.

So - I if I'd like to play a desert wanderer, but I'm fed up with rangers (because of the above statements) I'm just effed. I have to play a ranger, unless I want to spend hours staring at the screen or run the risk of having my character die while link dead because I got caught in a storm and had to go to work. I'm restricted to the skill set of a ranger - regardless of whether I want a completely different character concept.

I had given many solutions to this in a long ago post. Here are a few:

1) Allow another guild or a subguild to navigate sandstorms. Caravan guide maybe?

Caravan guides are skilled in desert travel

2) Allow another guild or subguild to navigate sandstorms - but only for themselves. Everyone following is on their own.
3) Allow people to quit out in a sandstorm. Make it take 5 minutes. Make it require a tent in your inventory. Make it require a full waterskin in your inventory. I don't care - just make it possible somehow. I find it hard to believe that the people of a desert planet don't have some way to deal with a sandstorm. You'd think at the very least, they would know how to hunker down and weather the storm, provided they have the proper equipment to deal with it. The argument that if you go link dead and come back to a dead character that they must have simply died in the sandstorm seems ridiculous to me. Anyone wandering the desert with the proper equipment should be able to weather the storm, especially on a planet like Zalanthas.
4) Allow some combination of equipment grant you the ability to navigate a sandstorm. Sunsilts + facewrap + storm cloak + whatever else seems appropriate.

[Gimfalisette]

I get rather tired of this argument. Because rangers aren't uber enough.

• the only class to be able to hitch multiple
• the only class to be able to quit out anywhere
• the only class able to forage for food
• the only class that has a high enough ride skill to ride with something in each hand, AFAIK
• the only class with a high enough ride not to get the damn 'refuses to move' with the new ride code, AFAIK

Rangers, AFAIK, are the only class that just gets innate stuff for being a ranger.
Hitching multiple mounts isn't a skill - you just get it.
The ability to forage for food isn't a skill - you just get it.
The ability to quit out anywhere isn't a skill - you just get it.

Some of your beliefs are incorrect.

[fourTwenty]

1) Allow another guild or a subguild to navigate sandstorms. Caravan guide maybe?

Caravan guides are skilled in desert travel

I actually don't think this would be a horrible idea.

I find it hard to believe that the people of a desert planet don't have some way to deal with a sandstorm.

I imagine they would handle it much like desert people in real life. Avoid at any and all costs getting caught out in a sandstorm, plan ahead.

4) Allow some combination of equipment grant you the ability to navigate a sandstorm. Sunsilts + facewrap + storm cloak + whatever else seems appropriate.

You should definitely ask around IG.

[Qzzrbl]

I'd like to see sunslits and other proper gear make desert navigation easier.

I'd like to see certain subguilds get safe desert travel.

I'm still against anyone but desert rangers quitting in the desert.

If you're going out into the desert, and you're not a ranger, and don't have a ranger or a guide, don't do it. The desert is dangerous. The desert is harsh. The desert doesn't care if you get caught in a sandstorm and suddenly have to quit out.

Hire a guide.

Make desert guiding actually a profitable occupation again.

[AmandaGreathouse]

The desert is dangerous. The desert is harsh.

Agreed. And it's perfectly logical that it should be.

The desert doesn't care if you get caught in a sandstorm and suddenly have to quit out.

You're right. It doesn't. The desert is IC, quitting is OOC.

[X-D]

Playing a desert dwelling PC that is not a mage, ranger or delf is actually pretty easy. I've never had the problem many of you talk about with waiting for hours for weather to clear. For two main reasons. First, somewhere in the docs it says to find better weather, move upwind. This actually works in 90% of the areas.

Second, quit safe rooms are actually abundant and pretty easy to find. I've been thinking about it and I really cannot think of any wilderness areas where you can get more then 20 rooms from a quit safe, almost half of them are even mount quit safe now days.

I've found the recent changes to weather code to be about perfect IMO, so now it is even easier to survive in the desert since when the echo says the wind got weaker and changes direction, it actually does.

Course, if I was in charge I would appease you all by simply adding a new subclass for each of the ranger perks, Not even name them, just option AA: wilderness quit, BB: forage food CC: perfect direction. But you would forgo any other subclass skills so you could make a celf burgler with wilderness quit if you wanted,

[musashi]

I have to agree with X-D in that, the one time I played a non-ranger character, they lived in the wilds as well, and at first I was very worried that it was going to be impossible to survive without the coded ranger abilities ... but ... I was pleasantly surprized.

Of course I wasn't living in Red Storm or anywhere near the Red Desert.

[Qzzrbl]

The desert doesn't care if you get caught in a sandstorm and suddenly have to quit out.

You're right. It doesn't. The desert is IC, quitting is OOC.

And if you can't come to terms with that, don't go into the desert.

Or hire a guide.

[SMuz]

I'd actually like it if there was the ability to quit in the wilderness. I think everyone should be able to set camp anywhere, not just rangers. I don't really have the time (or stamina) to search around all the rooms, trying to find a quit-safe one when I have to leave in a hurry. Sandstorms are probably the biggest reason I avoid playing the game and quit early sometimes - because I don't want to get caught in one 5 minutes before going out for lunch.

I think the "quit anywhere" thing should be given to everyone.. but outside city sandstorms should be harsher and rangers should probably get a "look in sandstorms" skill or something, which would make them great guides. After all, if they were guiding someone through a sandstorm and were the only ones who could stay in a camp (quit), it won't be realistic to the others anyway.

[Qzzrbl]

Maybe I'm missing something....

But if people would stop braving the dangerous wastes by themselves and hired a guide every time they did, there wouldn't be a problem.

If you know you need to get off soon, and don't want to go linkdead in a sandstorm, then don't go outside the gates.

If you simply -must- go about the desert on your own, take a ranger guide with you, an experienced one who can point out quit-safe rooms in the wilderness. They're everywhere, trust me.

It's really easy people.

Don't want to die in a sandstorm?

Don't go outside the gates without a guide.

The desert is a dangerous place.

If you tried to brave a sandstorm and got caught up, and suddenly have to leave. Wish up to the Staff. If there aren't any Staff around to log you out, then you're just shit out of luck.

Welcome to Armageddon.

[AmandaGreathouse]

Look, not everyone has the luxury of peak playing time or consistent access to another pc, especially when they already have to work around their husbands play schedule, let alone the rest of RL, but then I have to track down another pc, and pray to fucking god they have the skillset I want without guildsniffing them, then pray to fucking god that our schedules match up just fucking right? No. Fuck that. Sorry, but I don't have the luxury, especially when, at the times -I- play, there are typically 7 players in the -game- other than me. Nope, sorry, but that doesn't work. But hey, while we're on the subject of horribly inconveniencing people for the reason of making subguilds more attractive, lets completely take away the PC ability to heal, except 2-3 hp per IC day. Make them -really- need a physician, you know, because I want a physician to be more profitable and needed. No. I may be horribly opposed to people sleeping off 'death's door' style wounds, but I'm not going to try and inconvenience the hell out of everybody. Fuck, it's a game. It's a really, really awesome game, but making -everything- for -everyone- dependent on one guild or maybe two subguilds, especially when they are as likely as not to even -see- another pc in a four hour session. No. Sorry. No.

The desert doesn't care if you get caught in a sandstorm and suddenly have to quit out.

You're right. It doesn't. The desert is IC, quitting is OOC.

And if you can't come to terms with that, don't go into the desert.

Or hire a guide.

-my- point there is that quitting is an ooc command. that you shouldn't be penalized for not being a ranger just because you have RL issues come up. simply telling me that if I don't like the way it is I shouldn't go into the desert is a waste of time and energy, on a par with someone telling someone else to leave america if they don't like the way the government runs it.

Why should I -have- to pray to god against all hope that I can find another pc who:
has my playtimes
on my side of the world
who has the skills that I need
who gets along decently with my character
that I have the money to pay


That's a strict and unlikely met set of criteria for people who only have access to play regularly when there are 7 other players logged in. Most likely with at least one of them bar idling and one in an iso tribe and two having mudsex. Sorry. And, really, the worst part of the list, is that over half of the necessary criteria to meet with your suggestion, are -also- completely ooc. Sorry. No.

[jhunter]

I get rather tired of this argument. Because rangers aren't uber enough.

• the only class to be able to hitch multiple
• the only class to be able to quit out anywhere
• the only class able to forage for food
• the only class that has a high enough ride skill to ride with something in each hand, AFAIK
• the only class with a high enough ride not to get the damn 'refuses to move' with the new ride code, AFAIK

Rangers, AFAIK, are the only class that just gets innate stuff for being a ranger.
Hitching multiple mounts isn't a skill - you just get it.
The ability to forage for food isn't a skill - you just get it.
The ability to quit out anywhere isn't a skill - you just get it.

Some One of your beliefs are incorrect.

[fourTwenty]

AmandaGreathouse:

Your problem is easily solved with 1 of 2 solutions:

1. Play a Ranger

Don't want to do that? No worries, see suggestion 2 !

2.Plan you outings better.

Your welcome,


Edit to add: Seriously, I haven't been caught in a sandstorm in a RL year. They're not hard to avoid at all.

[SMuz]

I agree with what Amanda is saying. The problem is that it horribly inconveniences players. That breaks one of the biggest 'rules' of game design - finding a way to fight the system, rather than concentrating on having fun.

I don't see why I have to type "quit test" in every room 'just in case I have to go' whenever I'm playing a non-ranger. I don't see why I have to OOC memorize all the quit zones just to be able to quit when I really have to. It's not just the problem of being stuck in a sandstorm. It's the problem of being far away from home and not having the stamina to drag yourself back to a safe spot within the hour.

It's true that getting stuck in sandstorms are rare, but I sure as hell don't want to be lost in one and going link-dead because someone asks me to join him for lunch. And I don't want to sacrifice my social life because of a game. When you have to go, you have to go. It's ridiculous in a friend's eyes that I can't stop playing this game otherwise the character I've worked on for 3 months could possibly die.

Abusing quitting to get out of a sandstorm should be treated like any other RP abuse in the game, like quitting after a theft, twinking, etc. Other than that it should be completely allowed in case of emergencies.

Yes, the desert is a dangerous place. It should be. But I'd rather it's shown in more IC ways, like a "getting lost" code where non-rangers in the middle of a desert or forest will randomly go the wrong direction. Or make them get thirsty faster. Just don't force people to give up their RL time for a game.

[AmandaGreathouse]

AmandaGreathouse:

Your problem is easily solved with 1 of 2 solutions:

1. Play a Ranger

Don't want to do that? No worries, see suggestion 2 !

2.Plan you outings better.

Your welcome,


Edit to add: Seriously, I haven't been caught in a sandstorm in a RL year. They're not hard to avoid at all.

I have done plenty of planning on my outings. And I should not -have- to play 1 guild out of about 13 just to be able to function with -anyone- outside a city. I have been walking back to the city with a forester character, carrying logs, for example, and in the middle of the delay for walking, had a sudden sandstorm pop up, weather <every direction in turn> and it's all over. Yeah. Because planning keeps random shit from happening with the movement delay. Hell, I'm all for coded harshness, but not being able to leave a -game- for a REAL LIFE thing, when you NEED to, without risking, say, a 100 day character, is total BS. See, the point of this is, you can say all day that I need to "plan better", or "play a ranger". That doesn't say why -everyone but rangers is totally shit on in case of the slightest emergency unless they want to lose a character they have invested lost of time, energy and thought, not to mention emotion, into.

[Zira]

allow me to quote myself on an OOC comment I had to make earlier today: "I'm really sorry, but I was just told I have to leave -right now-. I really wish I'd had some warning to this."

Try being told, with absolutely no warning, or any way at all of knowing ahead of time that you had to leave,that you have to leave right that instant, or within 3 minutes. That creates problems regardless of where you are, or what you're doing. Because now you need to find an IC reason to leave, and fast.

Not a case of bad planning, but a case of lack of OOC knowledge or even intuition about other people's plans. I was just fortunate enough to already be indoors, and near a quit safe room, with a friend. I would've caught hell OOC if I had taken more than 3 minutes to log out. And if I had lost a character over it, I would've -given- sufficient hell to cost me the rest of my Arm 'career'

That isn't all. There are other times when I'm told without warning that I have to get off the comp, or do something that pulls me away from Arm for as long as 2-3 hours. What do I do if I want to leave the city?

[musashi]

Since the thread seems to have taken a turn into: Should non-rangers be able to quit in the wilderness? I'll add my 2 cents on it.

Truth be told, I'm undecided. I mean, I agree that when someone has to go for RL, they have to go! However, I think the rangers only thing is also a bit of a safe mechinism against possible twinkery, just like the fact that you can't quit out after attacking something.

I've played a non ranger character who lived in the desert and never went into any cities unless it was to sell something, and it was no problem avoiding sandstorms. I've honestly never had a sandstorm that was movement confusing spring up on me in between a single movement delay. A non-movement confusing sandstorm? Yes ... but usually the code seems to make it so that the outskirts of the sandstorm are able to be navigated, and only the inner core is so extreme as to confuse your movement. But again, all my PC's live in the north so I admit this might not hold true south of the shield wall. Anyway the point is ... when I needed to quit out, it was never a big problem for me getting out of the game within about 3-5 minutes.

Zira's statement about sometimes just needing to quit out for unforeseen OOC reasons RIGHT NOW holds weight but ... ok lets say anyone could quit anywhere ... but Zira had just finished killing a shik when she found out she had to leave RIGHT NOW. Are we gonna have threads about how its not fair to have a delay on quitting after combat then? Where's the line?

[Zira]

Zira's statement about sometimes just needing to quit out for unforeseen OOC reasons RIGHT NOW holds weight but ... ok lets say anyone could quit anywhere ... but Zira had just finished killing a shik when she found out she had to leave RIGHT NOW. Are we gonna have threads about how its not fair to have a delay on quitting after combat then? Where's the line?

Under those circumstances, I wouldn't mind the wait if I can get to a quit safe room quickly. I can have my client log me out after a designated time if I have to leave quickly in a quit-safe room. But if I'm stuck in a sandstorm, I can't have my client navigate for me.

I agree that quitting after combat shouldn't be allowed (though it can be annoying if something comes up right after sparring practice). The only problem I have, is when IG conditions conspire against you. I've been fortunate enough not to have that happen, but I'm well aware of just how frustrating such can be.

My vote is for, extremely delayed quit outside of quit-safe rooms, or automatic logout if you're linkdead for more than x minutes.

[Lizzie]

I think automatic logout after 30 minutes of idleness would really solve this whole mess. And if the game can't tell if you're linkdead or merely idle..it could send a beep and a text message like it does when you log in and sit there idle for more than a minute.

<beep>
You have been idle too long. Please enter something, or you will be logged out.

(no response after 10 seconds)
<logout>

That way, people who -want- to be logged in, but idle, can be. They just have to be paying attention or set up a trigger to input something when that message pops up. And people who -don't- want to be logged in, can go on and do whatever they need to do in RL and not worry about the game sucking their character into oblivion after 30 minutes of being afk.

[Qzzrbl]

simply telling me that if I don't like the way it is I shouldn't go into the desert is a waste of time and energy, on a par with someone telling someone else to leave america if they don't like the way the government runs it.

Not really....

It's more like, "Your character was likely raised to believe that the desert is a very dangerous place, whereas most rangers have practically lived in the desert for a good portion of their lives. Your character was possibly raised to believe that the desert is a dangerous place for good reason. Gith, beetles, scrab, deadly sandstorms and nowhere safe to take a nap."

What happens to most characters if they quit out in the desert? What do they do in that virtual time when you're gone? Do they just wander around? You know what happens to non-rangers who just wander around in the desert? Bad things. Either they get caught in a sandstorm and get lost and die of thirst, they get eaten by a clutch of mantis, whatever. Rangers are people who typically make a living by reading the land, and best know how to avoid these types of things.

I'm sorry you play off-peak, it happens.

There are more quit rooms out in the wilderness than you think. It'd probably be a good venture to find them, if your character absolutely -must- travel from city to city when there are only 5 characters online. It's not like the cities are really all that far apart anyway.

I'm just really not in favor of making the game any easier.

I can hardly catch any of the "harshness" and danger of desert travel I hear people buzzing about with the way it is right now, even.

[Zoan]

Am I the only one who notices that there's a permanent bloody sandstorm in Vrun Driath/Allanak? Fuck me, it's a desert, sure, but it's not a bloody permanent hurricane.

[Delstro]

I am definately in favor of making a subguild or two that has wilderness quit and sandstorm navigation.

If it gets abused by everyone, then you have two options, remove it completely, or make it a Karma level 1 Subguild.
Problem solved. I'd definately be in favor of making the game more player friendly.

[staggerlee]

I'm of the mind that rather than neutering sandstorms or giving everyone wilderness quit there should be a third option.
I don't think there should be events in the game that you quit to avoid.   It's bad rp, and it runs counter to the whole point of the game - if nobody will stay online during  a sandstorm, something is wrong.

Therefore I propose that sandstorms should be an entertaining challenge, and the focus be moved from "what can we do to allow people to quit out during sandstorms" to "how can we make sandstorms dangerous and still an entertaining environment for rp."

[AmandaGreathouse]

I'm of the mind that rather than neutering sandstorms or giving everyone wilderness quit there should be a third option.
I don't think there should be events in the game that you quit to avoid.   It's bad rp, and it runs counter to the whole point of the game - if nobody will stay online during  a sandstorm, something is wrong.

Therefore I propose that sandstorms should be an entertaining challenge, and the focus be moved from "what can we do to allow people to quit out during sandstorms" to "how can we make sandstorms dangerous and still an entertaining environment for rp."

For the record, I don't want to quit out because I'm in a sandstorm, I want to quit out to go to the emergency room, or take the hour-long phone call from my mother about my grandma's heart-attack, or what-have-you. I don't even care if a sandstorm is there, for that matter. It's about as likely to make me log out as nighttime. Not. I am talking about completely ooc things.

[Malken]

A good middle ground would be to allow rangers to quit out right away, and non-rangers to be able to quit out after five minutes of uninterrupted time.

Sort of like the 'camp' command in Harshlands or SoI..

Saying that you shouldn't be able to quit in a reasonable short amount of time (at least five minutes after an 'emergency' comes up) is totally ridiculous and unfair.

Yes, because life is unpredictable, we should just all be playing rangers or stick close to the city when we wake up in the morning with a slight feeling to the back of our mind that today
might be the day where we might have to quit a game right away, due to an unpredictable emergency.

This is something that should have been thought about and fixed a few years ago, in my opinion.

If I want to cheat, there's a thousand other things I can do on Armageddon other than 'quitting out' to escape some random raiders.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Therefore I propose that sandstorms should be an entertaining challenge, and the focus be moved from "what can we do to allow people to quit out during sandstorms" to "how can we make sandstorms dangerous and still an entertaining environment for rp."

Make sandstorms that blind you now begin taking HP from you instead. No longer are you blinded and/or turned around, you lost five HP each room. It's not going to kill you, in most cases, but it probably will scare you and make you started getting real scared about spiders and bettles and gith and whatever else is in the region with you catching you unawares.

[Lizzie]

I think there's no consideration being made among you who are against some alternative, to people who do NOT live in the cities.

Red Storm is a good example...inside the city, is usually pretty "liveable." But it's a starting location option for new players who might not realize that there's an unwritten law stating you are required to play a ranger if you want to play in Red Storm.

Then there's the human tribes - again, new players don't know that there's the unwritten law that all tribal humans are required to pick ranger as their primary guild.

If people who were meant to -not- live in cities, need to play rangers, then the character generation process should reflect this. Make it so desert elves can ONLY pick ranger as their primary guild. Make it so that anyone with a tribal background have their application rejected if they don't pick ranger.

Not every PC in the game has access to the Byn. Not every PC in the game has the sids to pay a guide. Not every PC in the game is logged in at the same times when a ranger PC is logged in -and- interested in leaving the city at the same time. Not every PC in the game lives in a city and wants to leave it. Some live outside the city, and want to stay that way.

I had a desert elf who wasn't a ranger, and was stuck ONE room away from a quit-safe room for over an hour because I didn't have the climb skill and kept falling. All I wanted to do was climb up and quit so I could make supper. I had no idea I was going to be the only PC in my tribe at the time. In fact, I was invited to create the PC, by another player who was playing a PC in the same tribe. The next day, I learned that player stopped playing. And I was by myself. Not knowing anyone, with no climb skill, and no knowledge of the surrounding area, and there was a storm, that was -still- storming when I finally succeeded in climbing and quitting, and logged back in 3 RL hours later.

I'm not the exception to the rule. Because there is no rule requiring that non-city PCs be rangers. And to expect non-city PCs who aren't rangers, to just "suck it up" or "hire a guide" is pretty insulting.

[Kassindra]

I've been reading and I find it most interesting that people are forgetting what a harsh world Zalanthas is supposed to be. How many city rangers do you know? Rangers grow up for the most part in the harsh world that Zalanthas offers, they SHOULD by right be able to quit out in the places they are familiar with and I think it's a little un-necessary that people what to divert from their CHOSEN role just to be able to quit out in the desert without finding a quit out room there.

If you're a crafter or a merchant, you spend your time in the city to do your work. Let the rangers/hunters go out and get your supplies. Let the people who do escorts do their job, let the rangers and hunters do their job, everyone can't do everything and I personally think it's a bit unfair and that people are forgetting the role that they chose by choice just for a navigate/quit out in the desert perk. Furthermore, why some people think they have this need to go out into the harsh environment when their role doesn't call for it, makes no sense to me and I've met people IG who believe the outside world from the city is dangerous and no place for them to roam about alone and that's how it should be.

I know people are going to go back with the "but i want to explore without having to pick this guild" or "I don't want to depend on people with this guild for things" but that's how it is. I've played a ranger in my short time here and I've also played a non-ranger and you all know each guild gets their own perks.

As for having a subguild that's just to allow you to quit out and navigate; I've come to understand that subguilds are made so you have something to do besides your main job to add a bit of entertainment or kill boredom, so if you want your new subguild to be that you walk the sands and sleep on desert dunes, well..that'll be one heck of an IC story to share.

I will digress however that if you can have a camp command without the ranger navigation that'd be fine.

Toodles.

Edited to add:

I agree a bit with Lizzie with the non-city PC's, atleast they have a reason to be outside the city but it seems most people who are arguing this are city dwellers and however you look at it, you still can't do everything alone. People need one another.

[Malken]

It's funny that guild = role when it fits and guild != role when it also fits the argument.

Again, I think that being able to quit right away for rangers and after five minutes for non-rangers is absolutely fair to every players, and anyone who disagree with this is not thinking about his/her fellow players.

[Kassindra]

Well I've not been here as long as most. Just a few months so I can only go from what I've observed I think Camp is doable and considers everyone atleast. Navigation is a different story however.

[Cutthroat]

..I think that being able to quit right away for rangers and after five minutes for non-rangers is absolutely fair to every player...

This, I agree with. Maybe the amount of time to wait needs to be adjusted, or perhaps some or all of the time can be moved to after you log in, but I agree with the concept.

[AmandaGreathouse]

Well I've not been here as long as most. Just a few months so I can only go from what I've observed I think Camp is doable and considers everyone atleast. Navigation is a different story however.

Definitely. I don't think that everyone should be able to navigate every sandstorm. Hell, leave that to rangers. Like I said, I just want to be able to leave when I need to.

[Qzzrbl]

So long as this anywhere quit can be easily monitered and checked for abuse, I guess I'll be alright with it.

Stuff like, using the anywhere quit in the city, where quit rooms abound, should be looked down upon and get a neg note from Staff.

Too many neg notes = revokage of anywhere quit.

I just don't want a feature like this to wind up being abused.

[Malken]

So long as this anywhere quit can be easily monitered and checked for abuse, I guess I'll be alright with it.

Stuff like, using the anywhere quit in the city, where quit rooms abound, should be looked down upon and get a neg note from Staff.

Too many neg notes = revokage of anywhere quit.

I just don't want a feature like this to wind up being abused.

That wouldn't be a problem, considering that rangers can't quit everywhere in the city.

"It's too noisy here to make a camp."

[Qzzrbl]

Hah, I'd forgotten about that detail.

Even so, I'd like the anywhere quit to be monitered.

Code Select Expand

Quitnow

Quit now? (Y/N)

Y

Reason?

Massive diarrhea , gotta go now.

Thanks!

Mantis Head,

I also wouldn't mind adding an hour, or a thirty-minute timer before a quitnow'er could log back in. To keep it from being used to just go AFK for a couple of minutes.

But I don't think anyone would go with that.

[fourTwenty]

I have been walking back to the city with a forester character, carrying logs, for example, and in the middle of the delay for walking, had a sudden sandstorm pop up,

This is a great example of what I was talking about. The weather in this case did not go from clear to unnavigable during the movement delay. Apparently, it was already pretty stormy and you chose to risk being out anyway and then it picked up just enough.

The quit anywhere thing provides lots of potential for abuse that simply just can't be monitored. I swear, if I could quit anywhere with any guild I would already have the entire known mapped out in my head (I don't use maps). Also, most people would quit out when lost in a storm and then just come back later to check it. Which is using an OOC tool to get around IG conditions. The exact opposite of some of these arguments.

If you have to take trips to gather supplies that's fine, nobody is saying you should have to be a ranger to do so. What they're saying is you should explore the area your going to and the area between it and your city. If your not familiar with an area it's the same as being lost. This "an emergency came" up thing can be solved very easily. First, if your caught in a sandstorm it's your own fault plain and simple. If your caught in one and need to log, tough shit, being lost sucks.(rejoice in the fact that most players wont gank a LD PC.) Second, if your familiar with your area, which you should be if your hauling logs/rocks/water then you should be able to find a quit safe zone quickly. If your not familiar with the area, tough shit, being lost -really- sucks. Last, if it's a real emergency and you absolutely need to log and can't make it to a quit safe room (I honestly can't imagine why you wouldn't be able to other than the aforementioned examples) then you can wish up and hope for the best. People tend to forget that not being familiar with the area around you is the number one killer IRL of anybody out in the wilds.

Still not against a 30 min auto-log though. This seems to be a decent compromise.

[Delstro]

Hah, I'd forgotten about that detail.

Even so, I'd like the anywhere quit to be monitered.

Code Select Expand

Quitnow

Quit now? (Y/N)

Y

Reason?

Massive diarrhea , gotta go now.

Thanks!

Mantis Head,

I also wouldn't mind adding an hour, or a thirty-minute timer before a quitnow'er could log back in. To keep it from being used to just go AFK for a couple of minutes.

But I don't think anyone would go with that.

30 minute auto-log is not reasonable. I prefer Qzzrbl's Idea.

[Qzzrbl]

And a maybe a two or so minute delay before you actually log out too.

You can quitnow and go linkdead, but you'll be out in a couple of minutes afterwards.

So people won't be able to quit away from that band of raiders, or that pack of gortoks that were giving chase.

I really don't see how a thirty-minute auto log isn't reasonable.

I don't want "quitnow" to be something people plan or want to use, for emergencies only.

In truth, I really, -really- don't want such a command in the game in the first place, but if we must, I'd like to see these timers on it.

If people stop venturing out into the desert when they can't see three rooms ahead, then I really don't think we would even really need a quitnow command.

People wander out to hack obsidian and gather wood when they can only see one or two rooms ahead, and then complain when they get caught in a sandstorm. Honestly? I think they're just asking for it.

[fourTwenty]

Just to elaborate on everything Q said. You can even leave the city if all you can see is two rooms away. But when the wind starts to pick up go ahead and head home, don't hang around for "just a few more logs mommy, please".

[Malken]

What the hell, fourTwenty, do we have to write down every single reasons as to why someone would need to log out quickly WITHOUT KNOWING SO THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO for you to understand that
an emergency is something that happens without you being able to do anything about it?

There's a 'camp' command on the two other RPI muds out there and if you ask the admins there, I'm sure that they'll tell you that this option is the least of their worries when it comes to people cheating and
abusing code.

[Lizzie]

To reiterate to 420 and Q...
You are assuming every PC in the game is city-based, or that every PC who isn't city-based is a ranger. You're trying to impose your ideas of "how things should be according to me" on "how things are."

In the game, desert elves do NOT have to be rangers, and are often NOT anywhere near their home base when the weather changes. Often, they have to travel many rooms, and bump into nasty critters, just to get to the trade post, or to the nearest quit-safe room.

In the game, tribal humans have an even worse problem, because they are usually riding mounts. They can't quit in certain quit-safe rooms because they can't bring their mounts with them. Many of these PCs are characters who do -not- leave from the cities, because they are not -from- the cities. Assuming that they can "just" hire a guide, or play only rangers, does not make for fun gaming. It just irritates the shit out of people who want to add something that the chargen allows to the game, and get criticized when we tell you it isn't a matter of "just" doing anything.

[fourTwenty]

What the hell, fourTwenty, do we have to write down every single reasons as to why someone would need to log out quickly WITHOUT KNOWING SO THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO for you to understand that
an emergency is something that happens without you being able to do anything about it?

No but I've yet to see one reason why you can't log out in these situations that isn't your own damn fault.

I've played a D-elf that wasn't a ranger. You know what, it's perfectly fine. Keep your self in familiar territory and you wont get LOST.
Most of this (if not all) is people searching for a coded way around being lost.

Malken, work on your reading skills. I didn't say I couldn't think of a reason someone wouldn't need to quickly log. I said I couldn't think of a reason why they couldn't quickly get to a quit room (other than being LOST which is YOUR OWN FAULT). Lost in the desert kills people, why are you set on not having the game reflect that.

[Malken]

Oh, fuck it.

[Qzzrbl]

Also, some of the complaints were about being out in the desert, getting caught in a storm, and then suddenly have to log off as they were waiting for the storm to subside.

I was talking about how to avoid situations such as that.

Sandstorms are pretty much the only thing keeping anyone from getting to a safe room in less than ten minutes anyhow. Like I was saying earlier, it's not like the cities are at all that far apart, and travel between them is easy as pie. Perhaps with an exception to a certain more storm-prone area.

How many people really have sudden "NEED TO GET OFF NOW" emergencies that happen so often that there needs to be a command made for them?

[Tisiphone]

Oh, fuck it.

Pretty much. Read your sig.

[fourTwenty]

To reiterate to 420 and Q...
You are assuming every PC in the game is city-based, or that every PC who isn't city-based is a ranger. You're trying to impose your ideas of "how things should be according to me" on "how things are."

Who's posts are you reading? I'm not assuming anything nor am I commenting on "how things should be". I'm commenting on "how things currently are IG right now and how they've been for a long time"

In the game, desert elves do NOT have to be rangers, and are often NOT anywhere near their home base when the weather changes. Often, they have to travel many rooms, and bump into nasty critters, just to get to the trade post, or to the nearest quit-safe room.

In the game, tribal humans have an even worse problem, because they are usually riding mounts. They can't quit in certain quit-safe rooms because they can't bring their mounts with them.

Thank you for proving my point. The people who want this skill are either a) wandering way the hell off and getting lost in unfamiliar territory. or b) wandering into bad weather and getting lost. I'm sorry it's just my opinion but getting lost in a "harsh, barren desert" should be pretty close to a death sentence.

You are correct you do not have to be a ranger to be a desert wanderer just don't expect it to be easy. Searching for a quit room is the equivalent of having to search for a safe place to camp. A camp command would be fine as long as it came with a pretty hefty timer. To simulate the fact that your having to search for a safe place to camp.

Also, some of the complaints were about being out in the desert, getting caught in a storm, and then suddenly have to log off as they were waiting for the storm to subside.

I was talking about how to avoid situations such as that.

Sandstorms are pretty much the only thing keeping anyone from getting to a safe room in less than ten minutes anyhow. Like I was saying earlier, it's not like the cities are at all that far apart, and travel between them is easy as pie. Perhaps with an exception to a certain more storm-prone area.

[staggerlee]

I'm of the mind that rather than neutering sandstorms or giving everyone wilderness quit there should be a third option.
I don't think there should be events in the game that you quit to avoid.   It's bad rp, and it runs counter to the whole point of the game - if nobody will stay online during  a sandstorm, something is wrong.

Therefore I propose that sandstorms should be an entertaining challenge, and the focus be moved from "what can we do to allow people to quit out during sandstorms" to "how can we make sandstorms dangerous and still an entertaining environment for rp."

There seem to be two arguments going on here based on two different things:

1)  Getting stuck in sandstorms and having to quit out.
2)  Having to quit out immediately due to unforeseen emergencies.

Regarding #1: I strongly suggest rereading my post here. There are better ways to resolve the issue than allowing everyone to quit out.  I don't believe anyone should be forced to quit out because of weather, ranger or no.

Regarding #2:  This should, and does have its own thread.  The idea has merit, but isn't really a discussion about sandstorms.  In a pinch, this one will do:  http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,32921.0.html  But I'm sure there are others as well.

[evil_erdlu]

I should say it's always possible to know that there's a storm, because as far as I know there are 'areas' with different weather values, so you can leave one area and enter another during your travel. You won't know if there's going to be a storm when you come back. There _are_ three-hour-long storms that get you stuck. Also, to answer "Do people have that many emergencies?", I'm an R&D firm owner who may feel forced to shift his attention from the game to a customer/partner/worker 24/7. At 2am a programmer may call me and I may be forced to explain him some pseudo code for half an hour. So I go idle a lot, sometimes even feel forced to dro link. I am sure other people may have similar professions forcing them away from the computer. Still....

Don't play the game if you don't know the rules. One must always have a contingency plan, be it going to a completely different outpost, contacting a friendly magicker/ranger etc, or simply walking into the closest quitsafe spot. You can't _always_ have a contingency but.. this is a game. Wish up "wish all I am really forced to go linkdead this instant, please log me out. Forgive me very much, I really gotta jet.", go linkdead and hope for the best.

If a command 'camp' is introduced, I would love it. I don't know how many times I typed 'camp' at the beginning days of my second character - first died very quick -, I don't think anyone would manage to abuse it if the delay is 10 minutes or more. 5 minutes? Nay.. I can lose a raider quickly and his 'hunting' me would take more than 5, but less than 10. But if such command is not introduced, so be it. As other posters mentioned - a tad bit too agreessively - we do have to account for environmental hazards. People accept less combat ability by picking rangers over warriors, there needs to be some advantage to that.

[FantasyWriter]

God forbid some of you with wagons from having PC caravans.  (wagons are quit safe)

[Delstro]

Player Friendly = More Players

Making it take 7-10 minutes to effectively log out anywhere is a good way to make me feel better about going outside.

Add wilderness to a level 1 karma required subguild and the twinking would be minimal.

[FuSoYa]

I am NEVER going to live this down.

In fact, I was invited to create the PC, by another player who was playing a PC in the same tribe. The next day, I learned that player stopped playing.

I'm sorry my Lizzie.

Brandon

[Lizzie]

He's so cute... <hugs>

I got mad for like, two days. Then I chalked it up to just another usual situation that crops up in Arm. Which is really my point - it isn't fair for non-rangers to have to count on the *players* of rangers, their schedules, their goals for their own characters, etc... just because you should "hire a guide" if you want to set foot outside of a city. It's also unfair for rangers to expect that they will always (or should always) have people leaving cities who need/demand/pester them.

What would make a WHOLE lot more sense to me...
If you're a desert elf, then you will have "ranger-vision" in the area of your own tribe's encampment. Make it a 20-room grid in any direction of your camp's entrance. Because really, if you -grew up- in the environment, you would be able to find home with your eyes closed and spun upside down walking on your hands.

If your camp moves, then so does your ranger vision. Your character can find HOME when he's near HOME. Wherever home happens to be that moment.

If your character is a tribal human, same thing applies. Gypsies would know their own territory like the backs of their hands. You could even add an age factor into it, with a wisdom factor as well.

If they're very young and their wisdom sucks, then they might only know within 5 room circumference of their camp entry. If they're middle-adult with decent wisdom, then they'd get the max 20-room circumference.

Maybe the "ranger quit" would work on the outer perimeter of this grid as well, for anyone whose coded encampment lies within the perimeter.

It would certainly make better IC sense than desert-dwellers who have spent significant numbers of years living -in- the desert, being incapable of finding their way around their own territory while some city-based ranger guy tramps out onto your ancestral property and never gets lost.

[Qzzrbl]

make me feel better about going outside.

That's the thing.

Going outside the gates of a city is not supposed to feel safe unless you're a tribal on native lands, with a trustworthy guide, or with a few shitcloaks ready to fight off whatever will cross your path.

[Cerelum]

Am I the only one who notices that there's a permanent bloody sandstorm in Vrun Driath/Allanak? Fuck me, it's a desert, sure, but it's not a bloody permanent hurricane.

Nope, it does, non stop.

The other one I hate is Red Storm, yes I understand the characteristic of the desert is to have sandstorms, but I swear on an old RANGER of mine, I went down there probably 10 rl days through various times of day to try my hand at spice sifting, and couldn't see dick in front of my face for any of them.

Make sandstorms, make them scary, make them intense, but don't make them force me to walk my ranger ass up to tuluk just so I can actually see where I'm going.

JaRoD

[Cerelum]

Therefore I propose that sandstorms should be an entertaining challenge, and the focus be moved from "what can we do to allow people to quit out during sandstorms" to "how can we make sandstorms dangerous and still an entertaining environment for rp."

Make sandstorms that blind you now begin taking HP from you instead. No longer are you blinded and/or turned around, you lost five HP each room. It's not going to kill you, in most cases, but it probably will scare you and make you started getting real scared about spiders and bettles and gith and whatever else is in the region with you catching you unawares.

I'm for this so long as the NPC and NPcritters are effected as well.  That gith shouldn't be able to just weather it while my fully armored, cloaked warrior is getting bloody swaths cut in him.

JaRoD

[Clearsighted]

So once everyone can find their way in sandstorms, can rangers get disarm? It is so inconvenient to lose your weapon. It is almost as dangerous as getting lost in a sandstorm.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

So once everyone can find their way in sandstorms, can rangers get disarm? It is so inconvenient to lose your weapon. It is almost as dangerous as getting lost in a sandstorm.

Rangers should be shooting stuff, particularly other humanoids.

[Thunkkin]

So once everyone can find their way in sandstorms, can rangers get disarm? It is so inconvenient to lose your weapon. It is almost as dangerous as getting lost in a sandstorm.

Maybe we could just start with parry!

[brytta.leofa]

rangers

Maybe we could just start with parry!

Parry doesn't help with unarmed (animal) attacks, right?  Right?

[Tisiphone]

I'm pretty sure Clearsighted is disguising a point, rather than making a request.

[fourTwenty]

What would make a WHOLE lot more sense to me...
If you're a desert elf, then you will have "ranger-vision" in the area of your own tribe's encampment. Make it a 20-room grid in any direction of your camp's entrance. Because really, if you -grew up- in the environment, you would be able to find home with your eyes closed and spun upside down walking on your hands.

If your camp moves, then so does your ranger vision. Your character can find HOME when he's near HOME. Wherever home happens to be that moment.

If your character is a tribal human, same thing applies. Gypsies would know their own territory like the backs of their hands. You could even add an age factor into it, with a wisdom factor as well.

If they're very young and their wisdom sucks, then they might only know within 5 room circumference of their camp entry. If they're middle-adult with decent wisdom, then they'd get the max 20-room circumference.

Maybe the "ranger quit" would work on the outer perimeter of this grid as well, for anyone whose coded encampment lies within the perimeter.

It would certainly make better IC sense than desert-dwellers who have spent significant numbers of years living -in- the desert, being incapable of finding their way around their own territory while some city-based ranger guy tramps out onto your ancestral property and never gets lost.

I can get behind ideas like this. They make a little sense, other than the one I crossed out. If it's a mobile camp you should still have trouble finding it because it moved. I would be okay with allowing D-elf's or tribal humans to navigate through a sandstorm but only within a specific area.

make me feel better about going outside.

That's the thing.

Going outside the gates of a city is not supposed to feel safe unless you're a tribal on native lands, with a trustworthy guide, or with a few shitcloaks ready to fight off whatever will cross your path.

This like a mofo.

Am I the only one who notices that there's a permanent bloody sandstorm in Vrun Driath/Allanak? Fuck me, it's a desert, sure, but it's not a bloody permanent hurricane.

Nope, it does, non stop.

The other one I hate is Red Storm, yes I understand the characteristic of the desert is to have sandstorms, but I swear on an old RANGER of mine, I went down there probably 10 rl days through various times of day to try my hand at spice sifting, and couldn't see dick in front of my face for any of them.

You guys is trippin'. The weather code actually took a pretty serious tone down not to long ago. It's very close to perfect IMO. And while Red Storm goes through IG weeks upon weeks of bad weather I find this very realistic. It also goes through a RL day of perfect weather every so often to balance it out. I mean I used to live by the ocean here in NC and wind fucking sucks when it comes whipping across the water with nothing to slow it down.

[musashi]

Just an off the wall thought I had but ... what if there was a passive skill that gave you a premptive warning about sandstorms, as though your character was reading the signs of the weather around him, like the skies, the wind, ect ... and you'd get some kind of message like:

You think a storm is comming from the southeast, and should be here in a few hours/any minute.

I dunno, just thinking ...

[AmandaGreathouse]

Fierce, swirling currents of sand, kicked up on the southern horizon appear to be approaching.

Then, also, the glaring obvious sandstorm to the south would be implied, at least, and the fast way it's moving in.

[audrey]

I once got caught in a sandstorm in Red Storm. I walked in the direction I thought was the nearest tavern.

> walk south (x8)
....
[sandstorm room description]

> south

[some description about being in the silt sea, only exit is up]

> think Huh?

Welcome to Armageddon!

> think WTF happened? Why did I get logged out?
> think Oh.


That is why I hate sandstorms! I felt the death was unfair enough that I requested a resurrection. Then, I felt that it was a waste of time to wait a month for a 2 hour char, so I made a new one.

[Zoan]

^ How my first 'real' character died. I didn't let it faze me, I was warned that Storm wasn't for newbs.