watch/scan/listen/guard changes

[KIA]

I agree with the stun penalty for these skills, however, the current costs (-10 for scan, then another -10 for listen) are much too steep.

If my uber-assassin is paying so much attention to his surroundings, through both active scan and active listen, lets say both are maxxed, how is it someone who wants to sap me or hit me with a bludgeoning weapon to my face has a 20 stun advantage?

Perhaps having listen and scan on should affect my chances of avoiding said sap or initial attack with a dodge?

Or perhaps the stun penalty is simply too high. Add that to having my barrier up all the time and suddenly I'm feeling pretty darn vulnerable! A kank fly could knock me out

KIA

[Clearsighted]

There definitely should not be a situation where we are /more/ easily knocked out and taken captive based on being wary or alert.

[Boggis]

If my uber-assassin is paying so much attention to his surroundings, through both active scan and active listen, lets say both are maxxed, how is it someone who wants to sap me or hit me with a bludgeoning weapon to my face has a 20 stun advantage?

Since the reboot yesterday I think skill in the ability is taken into account for how much stun you'll lose so you're skilled assassin won't be facing a 20 stun penalty for having scan and listen active.

[Clearsighted]

If my uber-assassin is paying so much attention to his surroundings, through both active scan and active listen, lets say both are maxxed, how is it someone who wants to sap me or hit me with a bludgeoning weapon to my face has a 20 stun advantage?

Since the reboot yesterday I think skill in the ability is taken into account for how much stun you'll lose so you're skilled assassin won't be facing a 20 stun penalty for having scan and listen active.

Its not being taken into account yet for scan and listen.

[Morgenes]

If my uber-assassin is paying so much attention to his surroundings, through both active scan and active listen, lets say both are maxxed, how is it someone who wants to sap me or hit me with a bludgeoning weapon to my face has a 20 stun advantage?

Since the reboot yesterday I think skill in the ability is taken into account for how much stun you'll lose so you're skilled assassin won't be facing a 20 stun penalty for having scan and listen active.

Its not being taken into account yet for scan and listen.

We rebooted yesterday to get that change in.  If you are an established (not a newbie) character, and you know you're not at base-levels of use of the skill and are still seeing 10 points per listen/scan/guard, email me your account and character name and I will investigate.

On a side note, we rebooted this morning to get in some bug fixes that were noted over the last few days.  Namely, you can now turn off scan while resting (but still have to be standing to turn it on).  I've also changed it so that if you stop standing, scan turns off.  Going to sleep will also stop guard/watch/listen.

[Clearsighted]

If my uber-assassin is paying so much attention to his surroundings, through both active scan and active listen, lets say both are maxxed, how is it someone who wants to sap me or hit me with a bludgeoning weapon to my face has a 20 stun advantage?

Since the reboot yesterday I think skill in the ability is taken into account for how much stun you'll lose so you're skilled assassin won't be facing a 20 stun penalty for having scan and listen active.

Its not being taken into account yet for scan and listen.

We rebooted yesterday to get that change in.  If you are an established (not a newbie) character, and you know you're not at base-levels of use of the skill and are still seeing 10 points per listen/scan/guard, email me your account and character name and I will investigate.

On a side note, we rebooted this morning to get in some bug fixes that were noted over the last few days.  Namely, you can now turn off scan while resting (but still have to be standing to turn it on).  I've also changed it so that if you stop standing, scan turns off.  Going to sleep will also stop guard/watch/listen.

It's only since this morning's reboot that scan and listen has been working as intended for me.

[Morgenes]

It's only since this morning's reboot that scan and listen has been working as intended for me.

My apologies, I thought it went in yesterday.

[Lakota]

Overall I'm very impressed with the changes I'm seeing. I would say I disagree with the stun drain, but factoring in skill to said skills wins my vote.

Thanks to Morgenes and the other coders. You're awesome.

[a strange shadow]

I still strongly disagree with stun drain, but this is better than before. Thanks.

[Lakota]

I still strongly disagree with stun drain, but this is better than before. Thanks.

Well yeah. It's a lot better actually. Skill is even more important now - that's a good thing.

I noticed a -big- difference in the -10 stun cap versus how it applies to my skill now. It also reflects skill improvement, so you'll notice yourself getting better in other ways. That's cool.

[Lizzie]

I really -really- wish scan didn't drop just because you sit down. I think this is opening up a whole new kind of "twinkery" that isn't really twinkery at all....people simply running their listen skill, and -not- sitting, when they're in social settings.

[Dalmeth]

I really -really- wish scan didn't drop just because you sit down. I think this is opening up a whole new kind of "twinkery" that isn't really twinkery at all....people simply running their listen skill, and -not- sitting, when they're in social settings.

I'm not too fond of this myself, especially in those situations where people should be alert, like when resting during a walk through the wilds.

[Fathi]

I can see not being able to -scan- while sitting, at least if we assume that scanning takes a lot of active involvement and isn't just "looking around really alertly..."

But not being able to at least watch in a direction while sitting seems silly.

[Clearsighted]

Scanning should work while sitting, but not while resting, imo.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Morg,

I really dig what you're doing, but has it ever occurred to you that instead of turning off things, you can simply half them? This would probably be more realistic, given the example of scan, and yet not be an on/off thing.

[staggerlee]

I can see not being able to -scan- while sitting, at least if we assume that scanning takes a lot of active involvement and isn't just "looking around really alertly..."

But not being able to at least watch in a direction while sitting seems silly.

I agree 100% with this.

Hell, having to stand while scanning also gives pc guards a role in watching over discussions taking place at tables, I don't see any need for people to be perfectly alert at all times. It also should discourage people for scanning and them slumping back into their bar seat, secure that they'll spot anyone trying to pick their pocket.  All in all, I think that has a positive effect on the game.

Watching however... I'd really think that it should be possible to set up a chair watching the door, crouch above a hole, etc etc.  I don't think about watching quite the same way.  Although a case could be made for wilderness rooms and crowd rooms, a lot of areas in the game are simply too large or too crowded to watch from a stool in a corner, you really would need to be on your feet to do it in those cases.

A shame that guard, watch and scan can't differentiate between busy rooms, big rooms, small rooms, empty rooms and so forth... but I hear that's what Arm2.0 will fix.

[Lizzie]

This is something I just simply won't agree with. If I am in my estate, and want to relax on my couch, I shouldn't magickally NOT notice the new aide sneak in and hide behind the couch, while I am laying down and staring at the doorway, because according to the room description, that is where the couch faces.

I shouldn't have to magickally cease to be capable of noticing people coming in and out of a fairly sparsely populated area, just because I'm sitting down. This whole "stop scanning when you sit" really only applies to bars, because bars are crowded places, and it makes sense, in a way, to not be able to notice AS MUCH when you're sitting as when you're standing, in crowded places like that.

However, I think that is something that needs to be addressed by skill ability, and not an auto-off toggle. For instance:

if roompopulation = lots
then flagroomscan = half skill

if roompulation = busy but not lots
then flagroomscan = three quarters skill

if roompopulation = the Gaj between late afternoon and dawn
then flagroomscan = one quarter skill.

if roompopulation = sparse or fewer
then flagroomscan = full strength

And that would apply to anyone who is sitting or resting or laying down. The "skill level" would be compared to each individual person's current maximum level of skill. So if you suck at listen to begin with, then your suckitude would be twice as sucky if you were in a popular bar in the daytime. If your skill is amazing and uber and completely maxed out, then it would be halved, if you were in the same bar that the sucky listener is in.

[Morgenes]

Being able to scan then sit was a bug that was fixed.  Why would you think we make you stand up to scan if we didn't intend it to only be used while standing up and looking around?

[Gunnerblaster]

I'm not sure if this was brought up but since Listen and Scan are now toggle skills, how would one improve in his/her listen and scan abilities?

What I mean to say is, is it still the same as before to where you become better by fail-checks, etc. that your not aware of or does simply turning listen/scan on increase one's ability?

[mansa]

I'm not sure if this was brought up but since Listen and Scan are now toggle skills, how would one improve in his/her listen and scan abilities?

What I mean to say is, is it still the same as before to where you become better by fail-checks, etc. that your not aware of or does simply turning listen/scan on increase one's ability?

I always thought that it would be similar to the barrier skill.

[Morgenes]

I'm not sure if this was brought up but since Listen and Scan are now toggle skills, how would one improve in his/her listen and scan abilities?

What I mean to say is, is it still the same as before to where you become better by fail-checks, etc. that your not aware of or does simply turning listen/scan on increase one's ability?

Before it worked based on success turning it on, now it works like watch and guard, you gain when the skill is tested.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I'm not sure if this was brought up but since Listen and Scan are now toggle skills, how would one improve in his/her listen and scan abilities?

What I mean to say is, is it still the same as before to where you become better by fail-checks, etc. that your not aware of or does simply turning listen/scan on increase one's ability?

Before it worked based on success turning it on, now it works like watch and guard, you gain when the skill is tested.

Oh, rly?

Furthermore, the change to scan is understood now, though I still do not agree completely with scan going away completely when you sit down. But that is beyond the point.

Good work, man.

[a strange shadow]

Morg,

I really dig what you're doing, but has it ever occurred to you that instead of turning off things, you can simply half them? This would probably be more realistic, given the example of scan, and yet not be an on/off thing.

I thought this bears repeating. I like gradients better than on/off switches.

[Lakota]

I like that as well.

[KIA]

Scan could afford to be tweaked to make it less useless... in my experience, it mostly doesn't help much, and there's a lot of spamming involved if it's going to be effective.