How to Improve Staff-Player Communication

[Riev]

Guys, I've figured it out!


Why don't we all switch places for a day!

Players <-> Staff




Yes. I understand that is SO not happening. But man I bet us players would find out the hard way how annoying "wish all Hey, this guy is being a jerk." is.

[Rahnevyn]

How can staff do better:
1) I think staff should be more personable with veteran players.  It's commendable that they're so reserved and formal with new players, but I think as the years go by they could do a little more outreach to veteran players and help integrate them more to the community.  Police do community outreach, why not staff?

I believe the moment we started doing this, we would get cries of "favoritism!" and "You talk to X, why not me?"

One standard needs to be applied across the board, and I'm happy with it being one of formality.

[Niamh]

As a player, I never found myself only being told when I was screwing up.  One of the reasons I applied for a staff position in the first place was that I got some fantastic feedback from the staff when I first started out, and as I went along.  I felt that this helped me out immensely, especially as a newbie, and I wanted to do the same for others.  Yes, we will let you know when you screw up, but for the most part, we do try our best to make it into constructive feedback that will help you to enhance and improve your PCs.  I personally will try to let people know when I see them doing a fantastic job in their roles, but please keep in mind that just because you don't hear that from us about it, doesn't mean that we don't like what you're doing.

[Fathi]

As a player, I never found myself only being told when I was screwing up.

Consider yourself lucky.

I have had a lot of fantastic experiences with Arm's staff over my years of playing here, but this is one problem that I have always run into when playing in clans, most notably with my leadership characters.

I can't say that I have ever played in a clan where I felt like equal amounts of positive and negative reinforcement were given, IC and OOC both. And I'd love to see a little more consistency between how these OOC and IC opinions are portrayed.

It's extremely frustrating, as a player, to ask how you are doing OOCly or ask for advice and be told you're doing great or fine... and then get nothing but negative attention from your clan NPCs.

I understand that NPCs have personality and some of them are going to be assholes and a lot of them only got to where they are BECAUSE they're assholes... but it's frustrating to run into time and again, especially because continued negative attention in animations leaves a negative impression upon my character, usually, unless they have done something to deserve it.

I'm not asking anybody to kiss my ass, but being told you're rockin' the brick house in emails and then getting a constant barrage of negativity from your clan as an IC entity is extremely difficult to deal with, especially if your PC is doing a lot to benefit said clan.

I haven't ever been told, "wow, you're awful at this and we're storing your dude" with my leader characters, but a hefty majority of them have ended up utterly resentful if not outright hostile toward their NPC superiors. It's really sad to me that my leaders keep on becoming jaded, bitter misanthropes who either just want their NPCs to leave them alone or would give their firstborn to be told they're doing a decent job, depending on the PC's personality.

[Tisiphone]

I haven't ever been told, "wow, you're awful at this and we're storing your dude" with my leader characters, but a hefty majority of them have ended up utterly resentful if not outright hostile toward their (N)PC superiors. It's really sad to me that my leaders keep on becoming jaded, bitter misanthropes who either just want their (N)PCs to leave them alone or would give their firstborn to be told they're doing a decent job, depending on the PC's personality.

Wow, this sounds familiar. Reference my changes, though.

[Fathi]

I haven't ever been told, "wow, you're awful at this and we're storing your dude" with my leader characters, but a hefty majority of them have ended up utterly resentful if not outright hostile toward their (N)PC superiors. It's really sad to me that my leaders keep on becoming jaded, bitter misanthropes who either just want their (N)PCs to leave them alone or would give their firstborn to be told they're doing a decent job, depending on the PC's personality.

Wow, this sounds familiar. Reference my changes, though.

Definitely a valid change, though I chose not to address the PC side of things because of the nature of the thread--that's a thread and a half unto itself.





The point I'm trying to make isn't staff-bashing, and I don't want any of the staff members who have had to put up with me in their clans thinking that.

I'm merely trying to point out that clan leader is a thankless enough job as it is. I think it would do a great deal of good for the imms to perhaps take a look at how such things can be ICly improved, because I haven't really witnessed much in the way of outright OOC discouragement. Of course, I don't want you buttering everybody's butt including mine, but I would be a lot more tempted to play leaders again if I didn't feel that my situation would inevitably become, "be ignored by everybody above you until you screw up."

Even changing the tone of an animation from "please don't fuck up <task I'm assigning you>" to "keep up the good work" would go a long way. If the main NPC boss that a leader deals with is SUPPOSED to be a gritty, foul-tempered asshole, then why not have a good cop NPC to go along with the bad one?

The problem with continual negativity in animations especially is that if it's relentless enough, sometimes you start to get the impression that the disparaging comments and lack of faith are coming from staff member to player rather than from NPC to PC. After all, realistically, if my PC was doing as great a job as my imms are telling me I'm doing in these emails, wouldn't somebody in their clan be at least a little happy about it?

[Tzurahro]

I haven't ever been told, "wow, you're awful at this and we're storing your dude" with my leader characters, but a hefty majority of them have ended up utterly resentful if not outright hostile toward their (N)PC superiors. It's really sad to me that my leaders keep on becoming jaded, bitter misanthropes who either just want their (N)PCs to leave them alone or would give their firstborn to be told they're doing a decent job, depending on the PC's personality.

Wow, this sounds familiar. Reference my changes, though.

I understand there are deeper issues being expressed here, however, in some ways the above is a realistic portrayal of dysfunctional organizations.  Which, almost without exception, Zalanthas organizations are.

In most Zalanthan clans, your boss might actually be very concerned about you seeming too successful.  Your (N)PC peers are probably taking active steps (some probably undetected) to sabotage you.  Getting murdered by your subordinates (especially other PCs) is a very real possibility.  And this is entirely separate from all the people outside your organization who likely have their own reasons for working diligently to insure your failure and frustration.

Part of this is to keep the stage set for "Murder, corruption, betrayal", and is deliberately built into the system.  As a member of staff, even as the newest member, I have already had to send "You rock... really" emails to players, and then turn around and get busy shoveling the mekshit upon their heads with the very next breath.

A long-term player in a leadership position becoming jaded, bitter, resentful and misanthropic kind of proves the environment of Zalanthas, where MANY NPC leaders are jaded, bitter, resentful and misanthropic and became that way through the same dysfunctional environment that is grinding down the players.

I have a positive note on my account that I am particularly proud of now:
"This player is great at playing out conflict and enduring the abuse heaped upon him by NPCs."  I was pretty pissed playing at that time, and I didn't find that note until about a year after I'd clawed my way through that situation.  It did help put things a bit more into perspective when I found and considered what it was saying.


(edited for spelling)

[Tisiphone]

I meant my post to be taken as agreement, rather than redirection. I'm simply pointing out to those who think they haven't experienced the NPC side of things that it feels exactly the same (or pretty damned close, at least) to experiencing it with PC leaders.

[Fathi]

I haven't ever been told, "wow, you're awful at this and we're storing your dude" with my leader characters, but a hefty majority of them have ended up utterly resentful if not outright hostile toward their (N)PC superiors. It's really sad to me that my leaders keep on becoming jaded, bitter misanthropes who either just want their (N)PCs to leave them alone or would give their firstborn to be told they're doing a decent job, depending on the PC's personality.

Wow, this sounds familiar. Reference my changes, though.

I understand there are deeper issues being expressed here, however, in some ways the above is a realistic portrayal of dysfunctional organizations.  Which, almost without exception, Zalanthas organizations are.

In most Zalanthan clans, your boss might actually be very concerned about you seeming too successful.  Your (N)PC peers are probably taking active steps (some probably undetected) to sabotage you.  Getting murdered by your subordinates (especially other PCs) is a very real possibility.  And this is entirely separate from all the people outside your organization who likely have their own reasons for working diligently to insure your failure and frustration.

Part of this is to keep the stage set for "Murder, corruption, betrayal", and is deliberately built into the system.  As a member of staff, even as the newest member, I have already had to send "You rock... really" emails to players, and then turn around and get busy shoveling the mekshit upon their heads with the very next breath.

A long-term player in a leadership position becoming jaded, bitter, resentful and misanthropic kind of proves the environment of Zalanthas, where MANY NPC leaders are jaded, bitter, resentful and misanthropic and became that way through the same dysfunctional environment that is grinding down the players.

I have a positive note on my account that I am particularly proud of now:
"This player is great at playing out conflict and enduring the abuse heaped upon him by NPCs."  I was pretty pissed playing at that time, and I didn't find that note until about a year after I'd clawed my way through that situation.  It did help put things a bit more into perspective when I found and considered what it was saying.


(edited for spelling)

You make some good points, and that was something I hadn't considered perhaps as much as I should.

However, there is a fine line between "maintaining the intregrity of a gritty, hard, dysfunctional game world" and keeping Armageddon a fun game to play.

It is my uninformed and unabashedly biased opinion that the former is being taken more into consideration than the latter.

[Gimfalisette]

A long-term player in a leadership position becoming jaded, bitter, resentful and misanthropic kind of proves the environment of Zalanthas, where MANY NPC leaders are jaded, bitter, resentful and misanthropic and became that way through the same dysfunctional environment that is grinding down the players.

(Emphasis added.) The problem is that it's players being ground down, not characters. I have been there and done that and nearly quit ARM recently due to something like the above.

I have a positive note on my account that I am particularly proud of now:
"This player is great at playing out conflict and enduring the abuse heaped upon him by NPCs."  I was pretty pissed playing at that time, and I didn't find that note until about a year after I'd clawed my way through that situation.  It did help put things a bit more into perspective when I found and considered what it was saying.

Do you think it would have been helpful to you to receive that note at the time? It sounds like an opportunity for communication was missed there. I'm all for the environment of ARM, but there has to be some way to keep players happy while making their characters unhappy, doesn't there? I think it's possible.

[Tzurahro]

... there is a fine line between "maintaining the integrity of a gritty, hard, dysfunctional game world" and keeping Armageddon a fun game to play.

It is my uninformed and unabashedly biased opinion that the former is being taken more into consideration than the latter.

I'm all for the environment of ARM, but there has to be some way to keep players happy while making their characters unhappy, doesn't there? I think it's possible.

I believe this is the key point from all the above, and well worth discussing, staff and player alike.

Some players want to feel deeply involved in their characters.  To enjoy the hand shakes of vicarious terror on the keyboard when a "Huge, Horrible Ickiness arrives from the west", or to feel the glorious echo inside themselves of a long, long, long-fought triumph when something finally (rarely) goes RIGHT for their character. 

How to allow players to experience the frustration, futileness, hostility and desperation of their characters that is also such a huge part of Zalanthas?  How to facilitate this type of immersion without players taking it personally? How to do this somehow without somehow cheapening it?  Is this something that staff can do?  Should do?  Would want to do?

It is certainly partly a trust issue.  It is certainly partly a separation issue.

(edited for grammar)

[staggerlee]

Regarding separation of IC and OOC:
The IC/OOC separation on MUDs is a huge source of conflict.   I was enormously relived to lose that when I started WoW, as a clan officer if I had an issue with someone or liked something they did, I could take them aside and talk to them about it, dialogue is easy, open and organization is fairly straight forward -  If you don't like the part of the game you're playing in, the clan you're in or whatever you can pick up and move to something you do like.

In MUDs... it's a lot more complicated.  You have your ic issues, your ooc issues, and the issues that blur the line... the first two you're expected to handle entirely ic, or entirely ooc, the third isn't supposed to exist.  But it does, and it always will.  Confusion as to which category each exist in causes a lot of issues.  Official denial that the third even exists causes even more issues, there are things that must be dealt with ic and ooc.

Some amount of bleed happens between player and character feelings, it's inevitable, even for the best rpers.  How do you deal with that?

Regarding atmosphere/harshness:
This is the same thing I took issue with in the new Batman movie. (let's please not branch into talking about that, it's an example) If you never break the mood and pacing things become dull. Harsh stops being harsh when it's 24/7, you need some rewards and humor now and then. Contrast is where you get depth.    Don't feel that just because the game is about murder/corruption/betrayal means that it always has to be about those.  Corruption doesn't happen without virtue and betrayal doesn't happen with trust.   

Regarding plots, clans, etc:   The easiest thing to do is to toss a few mobs down for some combat plots, traumatize pcs, or ignore them.  And a lot of the time that's fine.  Rewarding pcs for their actions without giving them skills or items, that's a much more difficult thing. A lot of the time skills and items aren't even what people are after, so the question is, what are they after? I think  that a lot of the time, especially in the case of a clan leader, just having their boss say "Shit, you did good! You've really been helping out around here!" would be enough to give a lot of peope warm fuzzy feelings.  Players want to feel that their character is, in some form, succeeding and being noticed.  In a small, yet significant way, they want to win.  We need our little moments of victory.

Regarding ooc comments:   If I have to torture/murder someone and they did a good job rping it, didn't spam walk away, and sat through it all with broad shoulders I send them a kudos.  Because I think to myself "shit, I just really ruined that guy's character, and he was totally awesome about it!  That's really cool of them."  The important thing is for them to realize that it is entirely ic and not an ooc thing.  As I addressed earlier, ic and ooc become very very fuzzy sometimes whether we want to admit it or not.  People need to know that the shit they're getting is ic and not ooc, trust isn't always enough, though I'll admit that more trust is called for.

[Gimfalisette]

How to allow players to experience the frustration, futileness, hostility and desperation of their characters that is also such a huge part of Zalanthas?  How to facilitation this type of immersion without players taking it personally? How to do this somehow without somehow cheapening it?  Is this something that staff can do?  Should do?  Would want to do?

It is certainly partly a trust issue.  It is certainly partly a separation issue.

Story is made up of the good, the bad, the beautiful, the ugly, the poignant, the terrifying, the heartbreaking, the triumphs, the losses, the falls from grace...all of this needs to happen to characters, or there is no real value in the Story. To the end of facilitating Story, staff should make sure all those things are happening. Often, that stuff happens just by PC-PC interaction, or by chance, and staff don't need to do anything. But also often, staff are the only ones in position to make certain portions of Story happen.

So I guess what I'm saying is that it would seem useful/helpful to me if staff were to keep the balance of the Story in mind. If a PC has just been smacked down hard by PC factors, lost all their friends, lost their chance at promotion, or whatever...then now is probably a bad time to hit that PC with something negative from NPCs or plot points. However, if everything in a PC's life is going utterly awesome, their plots/projects are swell, they have all the friends in the world and no enemies...time for that PC to get a new challenge. (And note that I do mean "new challenge," I don't mean "time to throw an immovable obstacle in the PC's path" or "time to destroy everything the PC has done so far.")

As far as communication goes, if life is abhorrently sucking for a PC right now, then some kind communication from an imm really can make a huge difference. When life was really, really horrible for one of my PCs, and it was really hard for me OOCly because it was Not Fun, I got this from an imm: "For what it is worth, monitoring <PC> has been a pretty heart-wrenching experience.  Wonderful, but awful...[but] I am pretty enthused to see what comes out [of this]." That helped. It didn't make a damn thing better for my PC, but it helped me to know that what the PC was going through wasn't utterly worthless; rather it was a good Story, and someone was reading it.

[Gimfalisette]

It is certainly partly a trust issue.

I'm still pondering and pondering this question: "When do I trust the staff most?"

And the answer is that I trust the staff when I'm hearing from you. Whether I like what you say or not, whether I like what you DO or not, if I'm hearing from you, then my trust increases. Here I mostly mean OOC communication via email or the forums, not NPC interaction. Times when I am not hearing from you OOCly, then trust decreases.

Another thing that is a huge trust-increaser for me is being treated respectfully as a partner in dialogue. Such as in this thread and in other threads recently. I may or may not agree with what y'all say, and vice versa; but the fact that you value and respect me enough to hear me out is pretty critical.

[a strange shadow]

there is a fine line between "maintaining the integrity of a gritty, hard, dysfunctional game world" and keeping Armageddon a fun game to play.

Could not have said it better myself. In complete agreement with Fathi and Gimfalisette.

[Iota]

As far as communication goes, if life is abhorrently sucking for a PC right now, then some kind communication from an imm really can make a huge difference. When life was really, really horrible for one of my PCs, and it was really hard for me OOCly because it was Not Fun, I got this from an imm: "For what it is worth, monitoring <PC> has been a pretty heart-wrenching experience.  Wonderful, but awful...[but] I am pretty enthused to see what comes out [of this]." That helped. It didn't make a damn thing better for my PC, but it helped me to know that what the PC was going through wasn't utterly worthless; rather it was a good Story, and someone was reading it.

QFT.

Opening up my email client and finding unexpected, positive feedback from the immortals is like looking into a surprise dead body and finding
"a pile of allanaki coins," but like six hundred times better.

Even when I was a brand new player without any expectations, staff encouragement, feedback, and constructive criticism really could really make
my day.

How does the staff feel about getting feedback themselves? A lot of times I refrain from kudos or suggestions for the fear that I'll come off as an
ass-kisser or a presumptuous loudmouth.

[Archbaron]

Fathi and Gimf have made some excellent points and Tzurahro has answered them well, but I still feel that:

there is a fine line between "maintaining the integrity of a gritty, hard, dysfunctional game world" and keeping Armageddon a fun game to play.

Is something that should be addressed by staff.

[Gimfalisette]

I've suggested previously, elsewhere on these forums, that putting a focus on player retention would be really, really beneficial to ARM's growth over the long-term. What I mean by that is: Currently, we lose players at about the same rate we gain them. Over time, very incrementally, we grow. We will never be able to grow to the numbers we want, or at a decent rate, if we lack a focus on player retention.

And right now, we do lack a focus on player retention. Staff-player communication is a player retention issue, especially for veteran players. (Newbies have a whole set of retention issues that vets don't have.) If players aren't enjoying ARM, they will leave; and communication is one factor in enjoyment.

I'm pointing this out because player retention is the reason I feel good staff-player communication is so important.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I really dig what Gimf is talking about, and I would love to see more of an effort to keep new players and keep old players too. Communication is often an issue. When people who feel like they have given years to this game start feeling like they are being dismissed or not being appreciated, they tend to get bitter and go write rants and shit.

[Sephiroto]

There are some times when I don't completely understand staff responses in emails.  So, I send a reply and ask more questions.  As this continues (sometimes over days) communication becomes broken and jarred.  I imagine that other players have this problem too.  I also imagine that sometimes staffers think "WTF is this guy/gal asking?"  Or, "I'm not really sure what he/she mean by that statement."

So, I have an idea to help both players and staff memebers be on the same page in regards to requests.  How about adding requests or a JAVA application for "Staff Meeting" time.  Think about an imm (preferably handled by the PC's clan staff first) help desk where players can schedule themselves on a calander, or a queue, for a chat session (like customer service) for periods of 5,10,or 15 minutes so that issues can be addressed in full.  Questions and answers can go back and forth until the player is 100% clear about whatever their request was about.  If the issue can't be handled by the staff member, then steps are taken to pursue future chats with a HL, an OL, or to handle things over email when sufficient time for chat is not available.

Now, To sign up for a slot the player must register on the request page and include, in some detail, the nature of their request so that the imm(s) can be prepared to answer.  Though some method of programming, staff members would then be able to view, in order of submission, a list of players online who are in queue.  The staff member could then read the request and send messages to the players like "A staff member will be available to assist you in <minutes>.  Please login to chat on the Armageddon home page."  After the session, a complete log is emailed to the player, the mud, the chatting Imm, and CC'd to anyone else the Imm deems necessary.

This would be a very professional step for the staff to take.  I'm not sure if the game leadership would want the administration to move in this direction or not.  How this would -actually- work would be left up for the staff to decide, but I get a good feeling when I think about this idea.  I'm not sure if we have enough staff to implement this.  Overall, I believe with this method we could address issues quickly, concisely, and adequately while maintaining a paper trail for accountability.

[a strange shadow]

I suggest, for an easier solution, that the entire body of the email be kept in your follow-up reply so that if necessary, all the recent conversation related to that particular issue can be read in that single email.

[Nyr]

Request Tool Tree

Account Related
--Account Notes (HL+)
--Email Change (HL+)
--Password Reset (HL+)

Character Related
--Description Change (HL+)
--Reimbursement (ST+)
--Resurrection (2 HL+ signoff)
--Skill Change (HL+)
--Special Application (Spec app staffer)
--Stat Change (HL+)
--Storage (HL+)

Game Related
--Player Complaint (HL+, sometimes ST)
--Player Kudos (ST+)
--Question (ST+)
--Staff Complaint (HL+)
--Staff Kudos (ST+)
--Submission (ST+)

General Discussion Board
--Complaint or Appeal (ST+)
--Join A Clan Forum (ST+)
----Assorted Clans (Most are listed, some few are not)
--Suggestion or Idea (Depends)

Publicity
--Contact  (depends)
--Idea (depends)

Web Site
--Bug/Typo/Idea (HL+ )
--Clan Page Access (ST+)

I wrote this up for a couple reasons.  Firstly, I think someone had asked for this (and while it's relatively easy to go in as a player write it down, I don't think anyone had actually posted it).  Secondly, I don't really see many requests that spawn this sort of "back and forth" response afterwards over e-mail, and just to be sure, I laid out this map of it to double check.  The ones that spawn back and forth tend to be:  player complaints, skill or stat changes (usually upon denial), resurrection, and question requests.  Of these, question requests likely result in the most (at least, they have for me).

I don't think it's necessary to create a whole system based around scheduling an active player and an active staff member to meet up together in order to answer things that can be dealt with via e-mail.  It is slower, but again, this is a volunteer effort.  If you notice or think that there is a miscommunication happening, that needs to be addressed when it does happen.  Usually, if I have a question about something a player asked in e-mail, I will ask the question.  I have asked the "WTF ARE YOU THINKING" e-mails before when I misunderstood something.  Generally, I bridle the snark and ask it in a nicer way than that.

[My 2 sids]

I'd suggest Imms (esp. when moving into a new clan role) write up maybe a paragraph or so about their philosphy and expectations.

Sometimes misscommunications can happen when a player gets caught off guard by how an Imm does or doesn't respond because the player was expecting the Imm to react in a different way.  Being able to have some introduction to the Imm's over all concepts, goals, and communication may help a player know what to expect.

[FantasyWriter]

Thanks for the tree, Nyr.

[mansa]

I think that tree should be published on the website, preferably in the request tool FAQ section.