How to Improve Staff-Player Communication

[Gimfalisette]

We have a current flurry of discussion underway which, in essence, is the result of a code change being made without any notification to players that such a code change was either impending or already in game. Players pretty naturally get ruffled when this happens, and threads are born.

The issue at hand is that poor communication from staff to players, and from players back to staff, is harmful to player trust in the staff. Harm to player trust in staff is a risk to player retention over the long term. We want to retain players, therefore increasing player trust in staff is beneficial.

So the question is: How can we improve staff-player communication? This thread is for ideas and comments about that question. It is not for bashing staff. I'd love to see ideas not only about what staff can do better, but also what players can do better, and even what kinds of technology changes might improve staff-player communication.

For reference, this thread was born from http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,32837.0.html and http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,32808.0.html

[NoteworthyFellow]

The staff are busy running the game and building a new one.  This I completely understand, and so far, the only problem I've ever had with player-staff communication is the fact that it's not always possible for them to respond quickly.

My only suggestion would be to have two, maybe three new staff members whose only purpose is to act as liaisons between staff and players.  They'll respond on the GDB whenever a staff response is necessary (though staff members like Nyr already do an admirable job of this), relay questions that are emailed to them and relay answers back, manage a blog about game-related developments, that sort of thing.  They wouldn't be assigned to clans or function as Storytellers normally do, but only assist in communication.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

This code-change was an accident. The change wasn't supposed to go in until it was announced.

The biggest problem I have with staff-player communication is the turn-around when it comes to emails and plot related things. I'm not sure how this could be fixed, though, other than perhaps returning to the old assignments of staffers being issued specific clans.

[FantasyWriter]

My only suggestion would be to have two, maybe three new staff members whose only purpose is to act as liaisons between staff and players.  They'll respond on the GDB whenever a staff response is necessary (though staff members like Nyr already do an admirable job of this), relay questions that are emailed to them and relay answers back, manage a blog about game-related developments, that sort of thing.  They wouldn't be assigned to clans or function as Storytellers normally do, but only assist in communication.

I think this would be an excellent idea.

Also I would like the meetings brought back where staff would suck the players into a room in game to talk about issues in an official chatroom-like forum.
I will find the old logs and post the link when the site comes back up.

[Gimfalisette]

Communication problems I've seen/experienced:

-- ARM Reborn blog is not being maintained.
-- Website main page newsfeed is not being maintained.
-- Inconsistent communication/notification about code changes.
-- On occasion, clans are abandoned by the responsible imm(s), without communication to the players thereof, and without another imm being assigned.
-- Lack of proactivity in communication; players are very infrequently asked for input on issues. (I mean in public, it happens sometimes in clan communications.)
-- Overall, the imms are not very present on these forums, except as thread-lockers / discipline-maintainers. I think this brings an unfortunately negative vibe to the staff presence on the forums.
-- Wide variation in the availability of staff to answer emails and help with plot points, from clan to clan. While this of course will always depend somewhat on the individual staff member, some kind of minimum standard would feel good.

I think the liaison idea is a potential partial solution to some of these things. I'm not sure it's a complete solution, though. I'm pondering.

[Marauder Moe]

I'm satisfied with the staff involvement on the forums.  They commented in the barrier thread quickly enough.


I do think it would be nice if policy was that every email message (or at least every email message containing a '?') received an answer within some time frame.  Even something like "Got it, will get back to you." is much more satisfying than silence.  It's nice to know it was at least read.

However, I don't know how feasible that is.  Also, I know that I personally don't like it when people send me emails with read receipts.   

[NoteworthyFellow]

Communication problems I've seen/experienced:

-- ARM Reborn blog is not being maintained.
-- Website main page newsfeed is not being maintained.
-- Inconsistent communication/notification about code changes.
-- On occasion, clans are abandoned by the responsible imm(s), without communication to the players thereof, and without another imm being assigned.
-- Lack of proactivity in communication; players are very infrequently asked for input on issues. (I mean in public, it happens sometimes in clan communications.)
-- Overall, the imms are not very present on these forums, except as thread-lockers / discipline-maintainers. I think this brings an unfortunately negative vibe to the staff presence on the forums.
-- Wide variation in the availability of staff to answer emails and help with plot points, from clan to clan. While this of course will always depend somewhat on the individual staff member, some kind of minimum standard would feel good.

I think the liaison idea is a potential partial solution to some of these things. I'm not sure it's a complete solution, though. I'm pondering.

I suggested the liaison idea because I know there are enough trustworthy players who would volunteer for such a position.  A couple notes about the suggestion:

-- The liaison does not have a staff account to the game, as that is unnecessary for their purpose.  As such, they are subject to fewer restrictions as far as the characters they can play, as they won't have access to monitoring characters or viewing areas of the world the way Storytellers and other staff members can.
-- The liaison can maintain their normal GDB account, but will have a separate account for when functioning as a liaison.  The liaison account will only be used when posting in an official capacity as such, and the identity of the liaison in regards to their usual GDB account would not be revealed.  This would mark a clear distinction between personal opinion and staff opinion.

Any other suggestions for the specifics of the position?  Unfortunately, it does look like it's shaping up to be a position rather without perks, which I think is the main downside of the suggestion--it would be a lot of work, and you don't even get to do things like run plots as a Storyteller and the like (which I imagine can be very rewarding for all the work that's involved).

[Lizzie]

First, I get a sense of comfort knowing that only a very few staffers "hang out" on the GDB, with their staff account personas. I'm also glad the "big boss" types generally only post when there's something "big bossish" to post about. It makes me feel good that they're doing their big boss things, and not off playing warcraft. If they -are- playing warcraft, I'd rather not know. I like my fantasy of pretending that the staff only exists to provide Armageddon and when I close the game client and web browser, they cease to exist.

Second, my biggest concern is with the shifting of clan assignments. I should emphasize I have no complaint with the current batch in my current clan, although I've only been communicating with one of them, that I know of, and I'd have to actually check to find out who the other(s) is(are). This I feel is really the biggest issue, to me. That a clan might be assigned to 3 imms, but you only see one of them. You only get e-mails from one of them, you have absolutely no idea what the other two do, if anything. So if the one you do communicate with goes on vacation for a week, you're stuck, basically, without any clan imm for that week, because you never see the other 2 stepping in.

That's really my only issue. If a staffer volunteers to cover a clan, they should at least post every couple of weeks on their clan board to let people know they're still there, and paying attention, and handling things during off-peak or whatever it is they do. If they aren't able, for whatever reason (personal stuff comes up, no fault no blame here)...then they should step down and allow someone else to take the spot. I truly feel that no clan should be covered by only one clan IMM, with no active backup or co-imm.

My secondary issue involves the wish command. In some games, the staff can see a list of all staffers logged in. I don't know if that's the case with Arm..

But if I was a staffer, assigned to clan A, and someone from clan B wished up about something clan related, and there was no one from clan B available - I would want to "send" them a simple "sorry, no clan imm for you right now" so the person will feel like at -least- their wish was heard by someone. Even if no one can help. The silence you get when no one is available makes me very sad and lonely.

[Niamh]

One thing to keep in mind is that staff can't be watching you and what you're doing every time you're logged in.  (Especially you folks with high playtimes.)  Keeping staff abreast of who your PC is and what your PC is doing helps out immensely.  Send your clan staff the occasional report with what's going on.

Regarding the switching of staff and clans, don't be shy about sending your new staff an email letting them know everything that they need to know about your PC.  Yes, we do communicate with former staffers about what's going on, but your former staffers may not recall everything that the new staff would need to know.

[Mood]

I think one of the underlying issues with staff-player communication is that, in my personal experience, several players simply don't have trust in the staff, for various reasons (some legitimate, and others not so much).

I can't think of any ways to fix this problem, but a large portion of the players I talk to are at least a little bit jaded. I think it should be looked at.

[flurry]

Regarding staff involvement on the forums, I think we (the playerbase) can be our own worst enemies. If a staff member thought that reading the GDB were often a waste of time, could you really blame them?

I'd love to see more consistent communication/involvement from clan to clan, but I'm not sure that's realistic. I wish there were more updates on the blog.

I think overall communication is good, though, and one of the strong points compared to other games.  That's not to say it can't be improved or we shouldn't try.

[Rahnevyn]

The problem with staff posting more frequently is that, even when we preface our posts with a disclaimer "This is not the Official Staff Opinion", posting with your staff account on an issue still carries more weight than a player's post would. I read most threads, but I post on very few, because usually all I have are opinions, and I don't feel my opinion carries any more weight than most of yours. When I have something definitive to say, I say it.

What I do do, along with many of the other Storytellers, is transport threads and idea's I'm interested in up to the IDB, where senior staff and coders can read and discuss them.

In regards to Noteworthy's liaison idea, it's something I actually considered as a role for myself when I came on staff. Ultimately, I realized I don't have the time to do player-staff relations and still fulfill my other responsibilities, so I never took it anywhere. I think it's a good idea, but it would seriously be a full time job for any staff member to handle.

[Lakota]

I think one of the underlying issues with staff-player communication is that, in my personal experience, several players simply don't have trust in the staff, for various reasons (some legitimate, and others not so much).

I can't think of any ways to fix this problem, but a large portions of the players I talk to are at least a little bit jaded. I think it should be looked at.

Bingo.

[Lakota]

To expand, I think that one thing that would help player/staff communication is only allowing staff to oversee clans s/he is interested in. This is the single most important reason that has led me to believe that staff rotation is fair and works in theory, but fails to take into account what said staff member actually wants to do. All too often I see immortals get rotated out for different staffers that in turn appear far less on-hands than their previous overseer. This can be contributed to:

a) Them being uncertain how to carry the plots the previous staff member set into motion.

b) Them being more hands-off than the previous staff member.

c) Them not really liking the new clan they've been rotated in to oversee.

It seems that 'c' happens more than it should, and in turn players/clans suffer due to the staff member not devoting as much time to the clan and players as they should.

However, I'm not in the know, so there's a great possibility I'm wrong on all accounts.

[Reiloth]

Player-staff meeting. Let's schedule it for three months down the line, after holidays.

[mattrious]

My biggest two issues with player / staff communication are:

• Responses to e-mails.
• Responses to requests.
• Responses to wishes

I understand the members of the staff are very busy. I also understand that is in a volunteer type position and that they all have lives as well. I would just like to see a quicker turn around on these types of issues? I've had characters come and go that never had their request answer. These are characters with well over a few days played. I've had characters that get little to no response when they wish up. I know that at times there are no staff members on, etc. No response to changing an objective. No response to e-mails. Nothing.

This comes and goes and widely depends on which clan that I'm currently playing in. It is just frustrating for me as a player that is wanting to do the best job they can as a player to enjoy the game and make it enjoyable for ones that I'm playing around. I dont waste their time with questions that have no merit. I'm not meaning this to be a direct slam to any staff member or the staff member as a whole. I feel they do an excellent job with the game. I just wished they would answer my questions or help me with the problems I'm having. 

I sometimes feel like its because I'm not on a short list of players the staff members favor or enjoy having in their clan, etc. I kind of feel like the last kid in middle-school who gets picked for the kick ball game. So, in short: Pick me! Pick me!

- matt.

[Gimfalisette]

I sometimes feel like its because I'm not on a short list of players the staff members favor or enjoy having in their clan, etc. I kind of feel like the last kid in middle-school who gets picked for the kick ball game. So, in short: Pick me! Pick me!

From personal experience, I just want to say that it's possible to have good relations with members of staff and to be generally well-regarded and still not get one's emails / requests / wishes answered, ever. It's tempting to believe that there's favoritism happening, but I'm certain that what's actually happening is:

-- Some staff are more hands-off and some are more hands-on.
-- If there is attention to spare, it nearly always will be given to apped leaders in the clan versus grown leaders or rank-and-file members, regardless of relative activity levels or contribution.
-- Negative attention is far more likely to be given than positive attention. I.e., if you're screwing up you're pretty likely to hear about it, but if you're doing well you're very unlikely to hear about it.

It's best to try not to take attention or lack thereof personally.

[mattrious]

I sometimes feel like its because I'm not on a short list of players the staff members favor or enjoy having in their clan, etc. I kind of feel like the last kid in middle-school who gets picked for the kick ball game. So, in short: Pick me! Pick me!

From personal experience, I just want to say that it's possible to have good relations with members of staff and to be generally well-regarded and still not get one's emails / requests / wishes answered, ever. It's tempting to believe that there's favoritism happening, but I'm certain that what's actually happening is:

-- Some staff are more hands-off and some are more hands-on.
-- If there is attention to spare, it nearly always will be given to apped leaders in the clan versus grown leaders or rank-and-file members, regardless of relative activity levels or contribution.
-- Negative attention is far more likely to be given than positive attention. I.e., if you're screwing up you're pretty likely to hear about it, but if you're doing well you're very unlikely to hear about it.

It's best to try not to take attention or lack thereof personally.

You make some great points. I really don't take it as a negative when there are no response to e-mails, requests, wishes, etc. I know they're busy and I know they've got bigger frish to fry than my characters little issue. I just kind of wish you would hear the good with the bad, etc. Maybe that is just a personal preference in that regard. I just think it can have a negative type affect on the lines of communication from Player ---> Staff. When I do not get responses or even confirmation that an e-mail has been read. It makes me less likely to send in character status reports, etc.

[Rahnevyn]

Regarding responses to wishes: it is the Official Staff Policy that you must be a Highlord+, or have a approval from one, to directly respond to a wish from a player outside one of your own clans. Sometimes there are capable staff online who simply can't respond to a wish due to policy. (Storytellers can still respond through animations, or through making the world react, we just can't "send" to you without permission.)

I know this works to your detriment in many cases, and I myself see it as too restrictive, but that's the way it is.

Somewhat related to this also is being as specific as possible when you wish up. "Can I talk to someone?" is unlikely to get anyone an answer. "Can someone please animate this NPC?" is also unlikely to get a response. We need to know exactly what you want, so we can first determine if we CAN respond, and then determine the BEST way to respond if we can. (And unfortunately, sometimes no response is the best way.)

[mattrious]

Regarding responses to wishes: it is the Official Staff Policy that you must be a Highlord+, or have a approval from one, to directly respond to a wish from a player outside one of your own clans. Sometimes there are capable staff online who simply can't respond to a wish due to policy. (Storytellers can still respond through animations, or through making the world react, we just can't "send" to you without permission.)

I know this works to your detriment in many cases, and I myself see it as too restrictive, but that's the way it is.

Somewhat related to this also is being as specific as possible when you wish up. "Can I talk to someone?" is unlikely to get anyone an answer. "Can someone please animate this NPC?" is also unlikely to get a response. We need to know exactly what you want, so we can first determine if we CAN respond, and then determine the BEST way to respond if we can. (And unfortunately, sometimes no response is the best way.)

Thank you for the input. I had read that about wishes before I believe, but it did slip my mind. It's nice to have my memory refreshed on this. Normally, I always wish --> My issue and leave it at that. Try to get it all in on one line. Thank you for the clarification though.

- matt.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

I am always in favor of more communication, player input, and response.  It's good to keep in mind that everyone has the good of the game in mind, including both the staff and the people who play it.  I think people get less freaked out when things are announced and even discussed ahead of time, so that they know that their concerns have at least been heard before a major change goes in (this most recent barrier thing doesn't count in my mind towards this, since it wasn't actually supposed to go in yet.)  I wish player opinions were actually solicited more often.  That said, I have usually found the staff to be responsive when the players offer their unsolicited and often alarmed concerns about new things.

So it's good, but there is definitely room for improvement.

[manonfire]

Player-staff meeting. Let's schedule it for three months down the line, after holidays.

Requests for these meetings have been largely ignored. I suspect staff isn't interested in holding one just now.

[mansa]

Player-staff meeting. Let's schedule it for three months down the line, after holidays.

Requests for these meetings have been largely ignored. I suspect staff isn't interested in holding one just now.

Mostly because you'll get questions like...

"When is the new game going live, etc, etc, etc"

[Kronibas]

Second, my biggest concern is with the shifting of clan assignments.

This.

[touringCompl3t3]

How could players do better:
1) show more trust for staff.  despite staff sometimes having bad days, most of the time staff are helpful/cheerful.   
2) avoid abusing staff members.  even when staff members misbehave, it's important not to snap at them.  this could make them even madder and it can easily have a ripple effect onto other players.

How can staff do better:
1) I think staff should be more personable with veteran players.  It's commendable that they're so reserved and formal with new players, but I think as the years go by they could do a little more outreach to veteran players and help integrate them more to the community.  Police do community outreach, why not staff?

How both can work together:
1) I'd like to see a stronger mentorship between older players and newer players.  I'd like the process to be somewhat formalized.

[Riev]

Guys, I've figured it out!


Why don't we all switch places for a day!

Players <-> Staff




Yes. I understand that is SO not happening. But man I bet us players would find out the hard way how annoying "wish all Hey, this guy is being a jerk." is.

[Rahnevyn]

How can staff do better:
1) I think staff should be more personable with veteran players.  It's commendable that they're so reserved and formal with new players, but I think as the years go by they could do a little more outreach to veteran players and help integrate them more to the community.  Police do community outreach, why not staff?

I believe the moment we started doing this, we would get cries of "favoritism!" and "You talk to X, why not me?"

One standard needs to be applied across the board, and I'm happy with it being one of formality.

[Niamh]

As a player, I never found myself only being told when I was screwing up.  One of the reasons I applied for a staff position in the first place was that I got some fantastic feedback from the staff when I first started out, and as I went along.  I felt that this helped me out immensely, especially as a newbie, and I wanted to do the same for others.  Yes, we will let you know when you screw up, but for the most part, we do try our best to make it into constructive feedback that will help you to enhance and improve your PCs.  I personally will try to let people know when I see them doing a fantastic job in their roles, but please keep in mind that just because you don't hear that from us about it, doesn't mean that we don't like what you're doing.

[Fathi]

As a player, I never found myself only being told when I was screwing up.

Consider yourself lucky.

I have had a lot of fantastic experiences with Arm's staff over my years of playing here, but this is one problem that I have always run into when playing in clans, most notably with my leadership characters.

I can't say that I have ever played in a clan where I felt like equal amounts of positive and negative reinforcement were given, IC and OOC both. And I'd love to see a little more consistency between how these OOC and IC opinions are portrayed.

It's extremely frustrating, as a player, to ask how you are doing OOCly or ask for advice and be told you're doing great or fine... and then get nothing but negative attention from your clan NPCs.

I understand that NPCs have personality and some of them are going to be assholes and a lot of them only got to where they are BECAUSE they're assholes... but it's frustrating to run into time and again, especially because continued negative attention in animations leaves a negative impression upon my character, usually, unless they have done something to deserve it.

I'm not asking anybody to kiss my ass, but being told you're rockin' the brick house in emails and then getting a constant barrage of negativity from your clan as an IC entity is extremely difficult to deal with, especially if your PC is doing a lot to benefit said clan.

I haven't ever been told, "wow, you're awful at this and we're storing your dude" with my leader characters, but a hefty majority of them have ended up utterly resentful if not outright hostile toward their NPC superiors. It's really sad to me that my leaders keep on becoming jaded, bitter misanthropes who either just want their NPCs to leave them alone or would give their firstborn to be told they're doing a decent job, depending on the PC's personality.

[Tisiphone]

I haven't ever been told, "wow, you're awful at this and we're storing your dude" with my leader characters, but a hefty majority of them have ended up utterly resentful if not outright hostile toward their (N)PC superiors. It's really sad to me that my leaders keep on becoming jaded, bitter misanthropes who either just want their (N)PCs to leave them alone or would give their firstborn to be told they're doing a decent job, depending on the PC's personality.

Wow, this sounds familiar. Reference my changes, though.

[Fathi]

I haven't ever been told, "wow, you're awful at this and we're storing your dude" with my leader characters, but a hefty majority of them have ended up utterly resentful if not outright hostile toward their (N)PC superiors. It's really sad to me that my leaders keep on becoming jaded, bitter misanthropes who either just want their (N)PCs to leave them alone or would give their firstborn to be told they're doing a decent job, depending on the PC's personality.

Wow, this sounds familiar. Reference my changes, though.

Definitely a valid change, though I chose not to address the PC side of things because of the nature of the thread--that's a thread and a half unto itself.





The point I'm trying to make isn't staff-bashing, and I don't want any of the staff members who have had to put up with me in their clans thinking that.

I'm merely trying to point out that clan leader is a thankless enough job as it is. I think it would do a great deal of good for the imms to perhaps take a look at how such things can be ICly improved, because I haven't really witnessed much in the way of outright OOC discouragement. Of course, I don't want you buttering everybody's butt including mine, but I would be a lot more tempted to play leaders again if I didn't feel that my situation would inevitably become, "be ignored by everybody above you until you screw up."

Even changing the tone of an animation from "please don't fuck up <task I'm assigning you>" to "keep up the good work" would go a long way. If the main NPC boss that a leader deals with is SUPPOSED to be a gritty, foul-tempered asshole, then why not have a good cop NPC to go along with the bad one?

The problem with continual negativity in animations especially is that if it's relentless enough, sometimes you start to get the impression that the disparaging comments and lack of faith are coming from staff member to player rather than from NPC to PC. After all, realistically, if my PC was doing as great a job as my imms are telling me I'm doing in these emails, wouldn't somebody in their clan be at least a little happy about it?

[Tzurahro]

I haven't ever been told, "wow, you're awful at this and we're storing your dude" with my leader characters, but a hefty majority of them have ended up utterly resentful if not outright hostile toward their (N)PC superiors. It's really sad to me that my leaders keep on becoming jaded, bitter misanthropes who either just want their (N)PCs to leave them alone or would give their firstborn to be told they're doing a decent job, depending on the PC's personality.

Wow, this sounds familiar. Reference my changes, though.

I understand there are deeper issues being expressed here, however, in some ways the above is a realistic portrayal of dysfunctional organizations.  Which, almost without exception, Zalanthas organizations are.

In most Zalanthan clans, your boss might actually be very concerned about you seeming too successful.  Your (N)PC peers are probably taking active steps (some probably undetected) to sabotage you.  Getting murdered by your subordinates (especially other PCs) is a very real possibility.  And this is entirely separate from all the people outside your organization who likely have their own reasons for working diligently to insure your failure and frustration.

Part of this is to keep the stage set for "Murder, corruption, betrayal", and is deliberately built into the system.  As a member of staff, even as the newest member, I have already had to send "You rock... really" emails to players, and then turn around and get busy shoveling the mekshit upon their heads with the very next breath.

A long-term player in a leadership position becoming jaded, bitter, resentful and misanthropic kind of proves the environment of Zalanthas, where MANY NPC leaders are jaded, bitter, resentful and misanthropic and became that way through the same dysfunctional environment that is grinding down the players.

I have a positive note on my account that I am particularly proud of now:
"This player is great at playing out conflict and enduring the abuse heaped upon him by NPCs."  I was pretty pissed playing at that time, and I didn't find that note until about a year after I'd clawed my way through that situation.  It did help put things a bit more into perspective when I found and considered what it was saying.


(edited for spelling)

[Tisiphone]

I meant my post to be taken as agreement, rather than redirection. I'm simply pointing out to those who think they haven't experienced the NPC side of things that it feels exactly the same (or pretty damned close, at least) to experiencing it with PC leaders.

[Fathi]

I haven't ever been told, "wow, you're awful at this and we're storing your dude" with my leader characters, but a hefty majority of them have ended up utterly resentful if not outright hostile toward their (N)PC superiors. It's really sad to me that my leaders keep on becoming jaded, bitter misanthropes who either just want their (N)PCs to leave them alone or would give their firstborn to be told they're doing a decent job, depending on the PC's personality.

Wow, this sounds familiar. Reference my changes, though.

I understand there are deeper issues being expressed here, however, in some ways the above is a realistic portrayal of dysfunctional organizations.  Which, almost without exception, Zalanthas organizations are.

In most Zalanthan clans, your boss might actually be very concerned about you seeming too successful.  Your (N)PC peers are probably taking active steps (some probably undetected) to sabotage you.  Getting murdered by your subordinates (especially other PCs) is a very real possibility.  And this is entirely separate from all the people outside your organization who likely have their own reasons for working diligently to insure your failure and frustration.

Part of this is to keep the stage set for "Murder, corruption, betrayal", and is deliberately built into the system.  As a member of staff, even as the newest member, I have already had to send "You rock... really" emails to players, and then turn around and get busy shoveling the mekshit upon their heads with the very next breath.

A long-term player in a leadership position becoming jaded, bitter, resentful and misanthropic kind of proves the environment of Zalanthas, where MANY NPC leaders are jaded, bitter, resentful and misanthropic and became that way through the same dysfunctional environment that is grinding down the players.

I have a positive note on my account that I am particularly proud of now:
"This player is great at playing out conflict and enduring the abuse heaped upon him by NPCs."  I was pretty pissed playing at that time, and I didn't find that note until about a year after I'd clawed my way through that situation.  It did help put things a bit more into perspective when I found and considered what it was saying.


(edited for spelling)

You make some good points, and that was something I hadn't considered perhaps as much as I should.

However, there is a fine line between "maintaining the intregrity of a gritty, hard, dysfunctional game world" and keeping Armageddon a fun game to play.

It is my uninformed and unabashedly biased opinion that the former is being taken more into consideration than the latter.

[Gimfalisette]

A long-term player in a leadership position becoming jaded, bitter, resentful and misanthropic kind of proves the environment of Zalanthas, where MANY NPC leaders are jaded, bitter, resentful and misanthropic and became that way through the same dysfunctional environment that is grinding down the players.

(Emphasis added.) The problem is that it's players being ground down, not characters. I have been there and done that and nearly quit ARM recently due to something like the above.

I have a positive note on my account that I am particularly proud of now:
"This player is great at playing out conflict and enduring the abuse heaped upon him by NPCs."  I was pretty pissed playing at that time, and I didn't find that note until about a year after I'd clawed my way through that situation.  It did help put things a bit more into perspective when I found and considered what it was saying.

Do you think it would have been helpful to you to receive that note at the time? It sounds like an opportunity for communication was missed there. I'm all for the environment of ARM, but there has to be some way to keep players happy while making their characters unhappy, doesn't there? I think it's possible.

[Tzurahro]

... there is a fine line between "maintaining the integrity of a gritty, hard, dysfunctional game world" and keeping Armageddon a fun game to play.

It is my uninformed and unabashedly biased opinion that the former is being taken more into consideration than the latter.

I'm all for the environment of ARM, but there has to be some way to keep players happy while making their characters unhappy, doesn't there? I think it's possible.

I believe this is the key point from all the above, and well worth discussing, staff and player alike.

Some players want to feel deeply involved in their characters.  To enjoy the hand shakes of vicarious terror on the keyboard when a "Huge, Horrible Ickiness arrives from the west", or to feel the glorious echo inside themselves of a long, long, long-fought triumph when something finally (rarely) goes RIGHT for their character. 

How to allow players to experience the frustration, futileness, hostility and desperation of their characters that is also such a huge part of Zalanthas?  How to facilitate this type of immersion without players taking it personally? How to do this somehow without somehow cheapening it?  Is this something that staff can do?  Should do?  Would want to do?

It is certainly partly a trust issue.  It is certainly partly a separation issue.

(edited for grammar)

[staggerlee]

Regarding separation of IC and OOC:
The IC/OOC separation on MUDs is a huge source of conflict.   I was enormously relived to lose that when I started WoW, as a clan officer if I had an issue with someone or liked something they did, I could take them aside and talk to them about it, dialogue is easy, open and organization is fairly straight forward -  If you don't like the part of the game you're playing in, the clan you're in or whatever you can pick up and move to something you do like.

In MUDs... it's a lot more complicated.  You have your ic issues, your ooc issues, and the issues that blur the line... the first two you're expected to handle entirely ic, or entirely ooc, the third isn't supposed to exist.  But it does, and it always will.  Confusion as to which category each exist in causes a lot of issues.  Official denial that the third even exists causes even more issues, there are things that must be dealt with ic and ooc.

Some amount of bleed happens between player and character feelings, it's inevitable, even for the best rpers.  How do you deal with that?

Regarding atmosphere/harshness:
This is the same thing I took issue with in the new Batman movie. (let's please not branch into talking about that, it's an example) If you never break the mood and pacing things become dull. Harsh stops being harsh when it's 24/7, you need some rewards and humor now and then. Contrast is where you get depth.    Don't feel that just because the game is about murder/corruption/betrayal means that it always has to be about those.  Corruption doesn't happen without virtue and betrayal doesn't happen with trust.   

Regarding plots, clans, etc:   The easiest thing to do is to toss a few mobs down for some combat plots, traumatize pcs, or ignore them.  And a lot of the time that's fine.  Rewarding pcs for their actions without giving them skills or items, that's a much more difficult thing. A lot of the time skills and items aren't even what people are after, so the question is, what are they after? I think  that a lot of the time, especially in the case of a clan leader, just having their boss say "Shit, you did good! You've really been helping out around here!" would be enough to give a lot of peope warm fuzzy feelings.  Players want to feel that their character is, in some form, succeeding and being noticed.  In a small, yet significant way, they want to win.  We need our little moments of victory.

Regarding ooc comments:   If I have to torture/murder someone and they did a good job rping it, didn't spam walk away, and sat through it all with broad shoulders I send them a kudos.  Because I think to myself "shit, I just really ruined that guy's character, and he was totally awesome about it!  That's really cool of them."  The important thing is for them to realize that it is entirely ic and not an ooc thing.  As I addressed earlier, ic and ooc become very very fuzzy sometimes whether we want to admit it or not.  People need to know that the shit they're getting is ic and not ooc, trust isn't always enough, though I'll admit that more trust is called for.

[Gimfalisette]

How to allow players to experience the frustration, futileness, hostility and desperation of their characters that is also such a huge part of Zalanthas?  How to facilitation this type of immersion without players taking it personally? How to do this somehow without somehow cheapening it?  Is this something that staff can do?  Should do?  Would want to do?

It is certainly partly a trust issue.  It is certainly partly a separation issue.

Story is made up of the good, the bad, the beautiful, the ugly, the poignant, the terrifying, the heartbreaking, the triumphs, the losses, the falls from grace...all of this needs to happen to characters, or there is no real value in the Story. To the end of facilitating Story, staff should make sure all those things are happening. Often, that stuff happens just by PC-PC interaction, or by chance, and staff don't need to do anything. But also often, staff are the only ones in position to make certain portions of Story happen.

So I guess what I'm saying is that it would seem useful/helpful to me if staff were to keep the balance of the Story in mind. If a PC has just been smacked down hard by PC factors, lost all their friends, lost their chance at promotion, or whatever...then now is probably a bad time to hit that PC with something negative from NPCs or plot points. However, if everything in a PC's life is going utterly awesome, their plots/projects are swell, they have all the friends in the world and no enemies...time for that PC to get a new challenge. (And note that I do mean "new challenge," I don't mean "time to throw an immovable obstacle in the PC's path" or "time to destroy everything the PC has done so far.")

As far as communication goes, if life is abhorrently sucking for a PC right now, then some kind communication from an imm really can make a huge difference. When life was really, really horrible for one of my PCs, and it was really hard for me OOCly because it was Not Fun, I got this from an imm: "For what it is worth, monitoring <PC> has been a pretty heart-wrenching experience.  Wonderful, but awful...[but] I am pretty enthused to see what comes out [of this]." That helped. It didn't make a damn thing better for my PC, but it helped me to know that what the PC was going through wasn't utterly worthless; rather it was a good Story, and someone was reading it.

[Gimfalisette]

It is certainly partly a trust issue.

I'm still pondering and pondering this question: "When do I trust the staff most?"

And the answer is that I trust the staff when I'm hearing from you. Whether I like what you say or not, whether I like what you DO or not, if I'm hearing from you, then my trust increases. Here I mostly mean OOC communication via email or the forums, not NPC interaction. Times when I am not hearing from you OOCly, then trust decreases.

Another thing that is a huge trust-increaser for me is being treated respectfully as a partner in dialogue. Such as in this thread and in other threads recently. I may or may not agree with what y'all say, and vice versa; but the fact that you value and respect me enough to hear me out is pretty critical.

[a strange shadow]

there is a fine line between "maintaining the integrity of a gritty, hard, dysfunctional game world" and keeping Armageddon a fun game to play.

Could not have said it better myself. In complete agreement with Fathi and Gimfalisette.

[Iota]

As far as communication goes, if life is abhorrently sucking for a PC right now, then some kind communication from an imm really can make a huge difference. When life was really, really horrible for one of my PCs, and it was really hard for me OOCly because it was Not Fun, I got this from an imm: "For what it is worth, monitoring <PC> has been a pretty heart-wrenching experience.  Wonderful, but awful...[but] I am pretty enthused to see what comes out [of this]." That helped. It didn't make a damn thing better for my PC, but it helped me to know that what the PC was going through wasn't utterly worthless; rather it was a good Story, and someone was reading it.

QFT.

Opening up my email client and finding unexpected, positive feedback from the immortals is like looking into a surprise dead body and finding
"a pile of allanaki coins," but like six hundred times better.

Even when I was a brand new player without any expectations, staff encouragement, feedback, and constructive criticism really could really make
my day.

How does the staff feel about getting feedback themselves? A lot of times I refrain from kudos or suggestions for the fear that I'll come off as an
ass-kisser or a presumptuous loudmouth.

[Archbaron]

Fathi and Gimf have made some excellent points and Tzurahro has answered them well, but I still feel that:

there is a fine line between "maintaining the integrity of a gritty, hard, dysfunctional game world" and keeping Armageddon a fun game to play.

Is something that should be addressed by staff.

[Gimfalisette]

I've suggested previously, elsewhere on these forums, that putting a focus on player retention would be really, really beneficial to ARM's growth over the long-term. What I mean by that is: Currently, we lose players at about the same rate we gain them. Over time, very incrementally, we grow. We will never be able to grow to the numbers we want, or at a decent rate, if we lack a focus on player retention.

And right now, we do lack a focus on player retention. Staff-player communication is a player retention issue, especially for veteran players. (Newbies have a whole set of retention issues that vets don't have.) If players aren't enjoying ARM, they will leave; and communication is one factor in enjoyment.

I'm pointing this out because player retention is the reason I feel good staff-player communication is so important.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I really dig what Gimf is talking about, and I would love to see more of an effort to keep new players and keep old players too. Communication is often an issue. When people who feel like they have given years to this game start feeling like they are being dismissed or not being appreciated, they tend to get bitter and go write rants and shit.

[Sephiroto]

There are some times when I don't completely understand staff responses in emails.  So, I send a reply and ask more questions.  As this continues (sometimes over days) communication becomes broken and jarred.  I imagine that other players have this problem too.  I also imagine that sometimes staffers think "WTF is this guy/gal asking?"  Or, "I'm not really sure what he/she mean by that statement."

So, I have an idea to help both players and staff memebers be on the same page in regards to requests.  How about adding requests or a JAVA application for "Staff Meeting" time.  Think about an imm (preferably handled by the PC's clan staff first) help desk where players can schedule themselves on a calander, or a queue, for a chat session (like customer service) for periods of 5,10,or 15 minutes so that issues can be addressed in full.  Questions and answers can go back and forth until the player is 100% clear about whatever their request was about.  If the issue can't be handled by the staff member, then steps are taken to pursue future chats with a HL, an OL, or to handle things over email when sufficient time for chat is not available.

Now, To sign up for a slot the player must register on the request page and include, in some detail, the nature of their request so that the imm(s) can be prepared to answer.  Though some method of programming, staff members would then be able to view, in order of submission, a list of players online who are in queue.  The staff member could then read the request and send messages to the players like "A staff member will be available to assist you in <minutes>.  Please login to chat on the Armageddon home page."  After the session, a complete log is emailed to the player, the mud, the chatting Imm, and CC'd to anyone else the Imm deems necessary.

This would be a very professional step for the staff to take.  I'm not sure if the game leadership would want the administration to move in this direction or not.  How this would -actually- work would be left up for the staff to decide, but I get a good feeling when I think about this idea.  I'm not sure if we have enough staff to implement this.  Overall, I believe with this method we could address issues quickly, concisely, and adequately while maintaining a paper trail for accountability.

[a strange shadow]

I suggest, for an easier solution, that the entire body of the email be kept in your follow-up reply so that if necessary, all the recent conversation related to that particular issue can be read in that single email.

[Nyr]

Request Tool Tree

Account Related
--Account Notes (HL+)
--Email Change (HL+)
--Password Reset (HL+)

Character Related
--Description Change (HL+)
--Reimbursement (ST+)
--Resurrection (2 HL+ signoff)
--Skill Change (HL+)
--Special Application (Spec app staffer)
--Stat Change (HL+)
--Storage (HL+)

Game Related
--Player Complaint (HL+, sometimes ST)
--Player Kudos (ST+)
--Question (ST+)
--Staff Complaint (HL+)
--Staff Kudos (ST+)
--Submission (ST+)

General Discussion Board
--Complaint or Appeal (ST+)
--Join A Clan Forum (ST+)
----Assorted Clans (Most are listed, some few are not)
--Suggestion or Idea (Depends)

Publicity
--Contact  (depends)
--Idea (depends)

Web Site
--Bug/Typo/Idea (HL+ )
--Clan Page Access (ST+)

I wrote this up for a couple reasons.  Firstly, I think someone had asked for this (and while it's relatively easy to go in as a player write it down, I don't think anyone had actually posted it).  Secondly, I don't really see many requests that spawn this sort of "back and forth" response afterwards over e-mail, and just to be sure, I laid out this map of it to double check.  The ones that spawn back and forth tend to be:  player complaints, skill or stat changes (usually upon denial), resurrection, and question requests.  Of these, question requests likely result in the most (at least, they have for me).

I don't think it's necessary to create a whole system based around scheduling an active player and an active staff member to meet up together in order to answer things that can be dealt with via e-mail.  It is slower, but again, this is a volunteer effort.  If you notice or think that there is a miscommunication happening, that needs to be addressed when it does happen.  Usually, if I have a question about something a player asked in e-mail, I will ask the question.  I have asked the "WTF ARE YOU THINKING" e-mails before when I misunderstood something.  Generally, I bridle the snark and ask it in a nicer way than that.

[My 2 sids]

I'd suggest Imms (esp. when moving into a new clan role) write up maybe a paragraph or so about their philosphy and expectations.

Sometimes misscommunications can happen when a player gets caught off guard by how an Imm does or doesn't respond because the player was expecting the Imm to react in a different way.  Being able to have some introduction to the Imm's over all concepts, goals, and communication may help a player know what to expect.

[FantasyWriter]

Thanks for the tree, Nyr.

[mansa]

I think that tree should be published on the website, preferably in the request tool FAQ section.

[Yokunama]

Second, my biggest concern is with the shifting of clan assignments.

This.

Regarding the switching of staff and clans, don't be shy about sending your new staff an email letting them know everything that they need to know about your PC.  Yes, we do communicate with former staffers about what's going on, but your former staffers may not recall everything that the new staff would need to know.

It could help the players, especially the leaders of the clan, if the new staff could send e-mails containing what they would like to see in weekly reports and their policy on certain things. New staff means things -will- have a different way of handling and going about things. We shouldn't be expected to -know- everything.

[Nyr]

Usually, policies within clans do not change from staff member to staff member (that's why there is documentation for clans and GDB information).
The latest two rotations, there was a transitional period in which clan staffers get e-mail from their old clans and advise the incoming staffers on how things have been working in the past.  The times that I can think of that there were significant changes to any clans, staff members AND players were heavily involved.

[Gimfalisette]

Usually, policies within clans do not change from staff member to staff member (that's why there is documentation for clans and GDB information).
The latest two rotations, there was a transitional period in which clan staffers get e-mail from their old clans and advise the incoming staffers on how things have been working in the past.  The times that I can think of that there were significant changes to any clans, staff members AND players were heavily involved.

I think most of what people are experiencing so far as differences, when a new imm takes over a clan, is more attributable to the staffer's personal way of doing things, communicating, and what that staffer expects or enjoys from the clannies. It's much the same as being a university student and having a new professor for a new semester's classes; there are some commonalities between professors, but there are also LOTS of ways in which professors have very different styles. One may hold open office hours, another only takes appointments; one requires essays be written in this format, another in a different format; one is at class and ready to begin lecturing at the stroke of the hour, another trails into the classroom and launches into the lecture at 10 minutes past; one requires note-taking and rapt attention and another couldn't care less what you're doing in class, so long as you're not disturbing others.

So, it's a critical skill for a student's survival to learn how to anticipate what the prof wants and adjust his/her own style to that. Otherwise, you can easily fail a class you really shouldn't fail.

Same thing happens when clans get new imms. Does the imm want weekly reports? If so, in what format? If I need something from the imm, which method of asking for it is most likely to get me a positive response of some kind? What expectations does the imm have of me in this particular role, ICly and OOCly? What things will really piss the imm off?

To that end, I think it would be really helpful if imms would state up-front what their expectations, requirements, and desires are. Then players don't have to guess so much.

When I played my Tuluki noble, we received docs up-front that contained a lot of this stuff, and it was immensely helpful.

[Sephiroto]

As an offshoot of my last post:

Spending anywhere from fifteen minutes to an hour talking individually with our/your people once a month, or even at the discretion of the player + staff, especially if the player is a leader in a clan, is an idea to help bring us together.  I believe this has the potential to strengthen player-staff relationship exponentially and help us learn to anticipate what we, as a whole, want and expect from one another.  Be warned, however, that there should be policy in place to ensure things stay professional.  Ultimately, we are a collective of roleplayers who have similar needs and goals and communication is important the success of our team and the longevity of our relationships.

One thing that I've learned in the workplace is that the better you understand your people, the easier it is to comprehend their emails and relate to their point of view.  This helps us be tolerant, amiable, and productive despite our differences.  Now, sending emails back and forth is great for getting tasks done.  Overall though, it leaves me with some F'ed-up, ambiguous idea of a relationship-gone-wrong because I don't get face time with the "boss".  I don't know if it's just me, but I have trouble getting on the right wavelength with my leader when that piece is missing.  From the perspective of a long-time staffer it may be hard to understand the disconnection that we players can feel.  It's easy for imms to work together as a team because they can chat real-time amongst themselves whenever they want, but when I have to wait a .  When I can't readily communicate, I don't feel as much like I'm part of the team.  I feel like I'm on my own a lot of times, even when I have great clan staff to back me up because I lack that feeling of "togetherness."

***

After an hour of pondering I've reached an ineffable block and I can't think of how to end this post except to say that I'd like to see some willingness to try this out and to remember that this is an idea for discussion and not some "The old way is broken, my way is better" plug.