Names As Keywords?

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Its very simple...The next time you are in a room with Bob, and your friend told you his name was Bob..you then:

keyword man Bob

You have added 'Bob' as a keyword for the Tall muscular man

You would then be able to

Contact Bob

To find Bob's mind instead of having to:

contact tall muscular man

(Since three words are so much harder than one and would simply cripple our ability to play Armageddon if we were forced to use sdescs instead of names)

The next time you are in a room with Bob you would be able to emote with Bob using Bob as a keyword.

Its very simple, if you ever find yourself in a room with someone, and you hear their name, either over a conversation they are having, or they tell you themselves, or you know from a buddy who pointed them out to you, you just...

keyword Man Bob

Yes, you will have to be in the room with the person at some point to use their name as a keyword, which is fine by me.

That will keep people who have never even seen me before physically, from contacting me. Which is pretty damn silly.

If you havent laid your own eyes on me, just because you heard the name Amos in a bar from a drunk guy, doesnt mean you should be able to link directly to my mind. Its stupid.

QFT.

Also, Bob can:

>beacon
You open your mind to those looking for you.

>cease
You close your mind.

...and lo and behold, you can contact Bob if he wants you to, having met him or not.

[Desertman]

I dont really like the beacon concept.

My main gripe here is people being able to "Contact" me even though they have never once laid their eyes on me.

Just because you hear the name Amos in a bar doesnt mean you should be able to link directly to my head from half way across the world even though you have never ONCE even glanced me in a market place.

So with the "Keyword" concept...

You would be FORCED to have actually been in a room with them, as in, got atleast half a good look at them, in order to link directly to their mind when they are half way across the world from you.

No more contacting people you have never even seen before.

It makes zero sense.


The drunken-old beggar says in slurred sirihish, "Hey...HEY!!!!...You knows...you can buys some pretteh ghood armers from that guy Jack."

You think:
Oh, thats nice, I need armor.

You contact Jack with the Way. (Who you have never met/seen before)

You send a telepathic message to Jack:
Hey Jack, I hear you can get me some sweet armor.

How does that make any sense to you people?

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Sure it does. The way is something people go into with a name and persona in mind. There is no reason that they shouldn't be able to contact you if you have your beacon up. If you go in a room and somebody tells you to find a key with the words Tufstuf on the fob, you'll find it, even if you have to spend some time searching for it. But if it is right out in the middle of the room, with a light beaming directly on it, you'll find it faster. Hense the beacon. And via your own concept, if someone sends you in that room to get that key for the fourth time, and you already found it before, you'll go right to it.

[Desertman]

Sure it does. The way is something people go into with a name and persona in mind. There is no reason that they shouldn't be able to contact you if you have your beacon up. If you go in a room and somebody tells you to find a key with the words Tufstuf on the fob, you'll find it, even if you have to spend some time searching for it. But if it is right out in the middle of the room, with a light beaming directly on it, you'll find it faster. Hense the beacon. And via your own concept, if someone sends you in that room to get that key for the fourth time, and you already found it before, you'll go right to it.

What if there were 25 keys with Tufstuf on the fob...how would you know which key was the right key?

Do you think you are the only person in the world with the name Amos?

What if you arent even named Amos and its just an alias keyword you have because you told the drunk beggar a year ago your name was Amos?

It doesnt make any sense.

A 'Beacon' concept isnt a 'Bad' idea, its a step in the right direction I give you that.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Ehh, I'm sorta adjusting for the idea of playability. Aside from those who do not want to be instantly identifiable, the system we have now is the best. But it holds a measure of hinderance to certian people, and for certian concepts. With your idea and mine together, I no longer think anyone is hindered.

[staggerlee]

7DV:

I don't understand what beacon would add that Barrier doesn't.  Beacon would have a cost to keep up and allow you to be contacted, Barrier has a cost to keep up and stops you from being contacted.  Basically you can already do what you're asking for within the current code.  

Unless you want beacon to allow selective traffic.  I don't really see Barrier operating like a Firewall though, you can't share your public key with a dozen people and block other traffic out, most people just aren't competent enough with the Way for that to happen.  I would see that as entering advanced psionics and something that most don't know how to do, or even have the ability to learn.

Finally, using a skill to open your mind instead of closing it implies a more active use of psionics.  Right now psionics is a force nobody understands, some learn to block it out, but most just live with its most basic functions.  Having to open your mind to receive messages  implies a deliberate training and manipulation of it.  I'm all for psionics being incredibly basic and uncontrolled on the level of the average user, and the intricacies, tricks and power only coming out in the hands of advanced psionicists.

Code Select Expand


Psi Barrier   (Communication)

The barrier command will attempt to erect a mental barrier around your character's mind, shielding it from most psionic interference. The duration of a direct mental barrier is dependent upon your character's wisdom attribute and skill proficiency. As with all sustained psionic powers, the cease command will lower the mental barrier.

Syntax:
   barrier

   Note:
   Psionic barrier is affected by your nosave setting. If you have erected
   a mental barrier but have nosave on, your barrier will be automatically
   lowered.

   A thorough understanding of this passive defensive technique is
   essential before learning about any aggressive defensive techniques.

   See also:
   cease, nosave, contact, expel, Psionics


[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Beacon would offer the mundane task of opening your mind to those who want to contact you but are not familiar with you. Barrier currently means that you do not want to be contacted. There is no middle ground. Because of this, if you barrier and nobody can ever reach you, it indicates to the people of Zalanthas that you are shady or withdrawn.

I am saying that with this method and new skill, the normal state of mind would be one that allows familiar presences in your mind, beacon would allow foreign, and barrier would allow none. The normal state of the mind would be one that allows those who know you and what to look for to reach you, beacon would allow those who never met you to contact you, and barrier would keep everybody out.

[Medena]

So instead of:
"Oh yeah, Sergeant Malik does the recruiting for the Byn, he's a big rough looking fellow with one eye and a mean temper."

You'll get:
"Oh yeah, Sergeant Malik does the recruiting for the Byn. He's the tall, muscular man."

No thanks.  I try to avoid describing people by sdesc, it's jarring and makes me feel like I'm playing a H&S or something.

Thank you.  That is precisely my objection to the idea of making names as keywords optional.  I think sdesc's get spoken way too often as it is.

[Desertman]

If I ever saw someone say...

"Oh yeah, Sergeant Malik is the tall muscular man."

I would report them to the IMM's for being an asshat.

Plain and simple.

It would happen a few times I'm sure.

I guarantee it wouldnt continue to happen.

Maybe newbies would continue to do it, but any self respecting veteran player wouldnt.

A quick OOC note to the newbie player from another player would usually get them to stop doing it as well.

There are a ton of things people CAN do in Arm right now for abuse, but because we are all pretty good players and have an OOC respect for one another, most of those things arent done.

This wouldnt be any different.

[staggerlee]

... so in my proposed scenario, how the hell is the newbie supposed to contact the Byn sergeant? 
You've removed the option of contacting them by name and you've just stated that describing someone by their sdesc is abuse.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

Sometimes, the only way to find people of a certain clan is to ask around for their names and then spend a lot of time trying to contact them.  Some people just don't visit bars, and maybe your friend Jimmy doesn't share the entirety of both of your playtimes to contact Lord Fancypants Fale and tell him this new bard wants to meet him and discuss employment opportunities. 

In my opinion, it would do a lot more overall harm to the generic player than good for the few sneakies who want to disguise their names regularly.

[Gimfalisette]

... so in my proposed scenario, how the hell is the newbie supposed to contact the Byn sergeant? 
You've removed the option of contacting them by name and you've just stated that describing someone by their sdesc is abuse.

Byn Sergeants get a new psi ability: newbie_fishing. Allows them to randomly contact characters with under 1 day played.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

You are Headcruncher, a Sergeant of the clan Tzai Byn

who newbie

Newbies
----------

the tall, muscular man
the tall, muscular woman
the tall, lithe man
the tall, slim woman

There are 4 players currently in the world, other than yourself.

contact malik

You contact the tall, muscular man with the Way.

psi Hey Malik, this is Headcruncher, the Byn Sergeant.  We've got some real nice stock options comin' up for those that join on with us in this new condo development out by Steinhal..

[Delstro]

If you say your name is "bob" I believe you should have that as a keyword so I can interact with you. The solution for you to not give them a name is attacking a side effect, not the problem.

The problem as I have recognized it, the problem is not that "You raided guy a, guy b, and guy c."
Guy a told his friend Militiaman g. Militiaman G goes to the bar and looks, using just a keyword, "look Raider." The problem is that Guy A failed his RP check and gave a spot on description of raider.. Then... Militiaman G failed his RP check and abused his knowledge. Militiaman G should get the smack down. He fucked the whole process up. Why did miltiaman G trust guy a so much? Militiaman G should have said, "Was his cloak up? Yea. And you said he had a yellow erdlu? So.. he had blue eyes, a tattoo of a rose under his cloak on his chest.. and he had two obsidian swords... So, basically he was a tall, fat guy named Jasper? Are you fucking crazy? You want me to go catch a guy named after a rock? Was it a fucking rock? Get out of here."




Bottom line: Make your own Decision. Be your own person.
If someone tells you they've seen a raider, ask these questions, and stop believing every PC that says they saw a raider:
Was his hood up?
What kind of cloak did he wear? Was it an Aba, elvencloak, stormcloak, raider's cloak?
How close did he get to him? 10 feet, twenty feet, thirty feet?

If his hood was up, you can almost bet that the raider didn't have any visible facial features.
If he had a storm cloak and his arms, legs, and face were covered up, then you know that Guy a couldn't have seen the rose tattoo on his chest.
If he didn't get very close, you can bet Guy A is crazy. You should jail him for lieing to you and wasting your time.

[Desertman]

... so in my proposed scenario, how the hell is the newbie supposed to contact the Byn sergeant? 
You've removed the option of contacting them by name and you've just stated that describing someone by their sdesc is abuse.

I know this is going to be a huge shocker...

It would seem they are going to have to actually wait for them to come around.

Is that less convenient than randomly contacting some Byn Sergeant's mind that you have never met before for your pc?

Yes.

Is it more realistic and does it make a lot more sense?

Yes.

Sit your bottom on that barstool, if the Sarge is worth a damn, he will make a run or two a day by the Gaj to see if any potential recruites are about.

Or, ask one of the MANY troopers and runners who are CONSTANTLY in the Gaj to find his mind for you, since they know him personally, and you dont.

[Desertman]

Sometimes, the only way to find people of a certain clan is to ask around for their names and then spend a lot of time trying to contact them.  Some people just don't visit bars, and maybe your friend Jimmy doesn't share the entirety of both of your playtimes to contact Lord Fancypants Fale and tell him this new bard wants to meet him and discuss employment opportunities. 

In my opinion, it would do a lot more overall harm to the generic player than good for the few sneakies who want to disguise their names regularly.

The Way is not Cingular Wireless.

If Lord Fancypants doesnt visit the tavern often, use some IC politics to get close to someone who is close to him, so you can then wiggle your way into an appointment.

Instead of dialing up his mind number and asking him out for a drink, out of the blue, because Joe Beggar gave you his digits at the bar.

If you dont share playtimes with Lord Fancypants, I really dont see how trying to contact him, when he isnt online, is going to be any more productive than using actual conventional means to try and get a meeting with him...Either way, he doesnt have your playtime, and he isnt online.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

I was talking about not sharing playtimes simultaneously with both Jimmy, the guy who is supposed to be introducing you and the only one that CAN contact Lord Fancypants, and with Lord Fancypants himself.

It's my opinion it's stupid to make the game harder on a crap ton of people with your proposed system, just to make it easier on a couple of people.  And to make it particularly harder on offpeak players, who already have a really crappy time of trying to get into a clan and trying to make contacts with people as it is.  I'm sorry, but you haven't convinced me that the benefits would outweigh the downsides at all.

'Realism' is a really nice argument, if I want to play RL, but in RL I spend a lot of time sitting pointlessly by myself that I would really rather not replicate in the game world more than I already do.

That said, I've made my points and am done with this topic!  I don't have any more belief that I'm going to convince you than that you're going to convince me.

[staggerlee]

Like Shiroi, I think I'm doing beating this particular equine corpse.
I did want to add to his statement though that it also punishes players with low play times.   A lot of clan leaders and newbies don't have time to tavern sit waiting for introductions.    Being able to handle that stuff over the Way while going about clan business can be an incredibly important tool for those of us who's play time is limited to a few hours a week.

[Qzzrbl]

Why don't we make it to where a character meeting another character decides what keyword to use?

Amos meets Malik, the tall, muscular man. Up to this point, Amos has to use Malik's sdesc to target him. Malik introduces himself as Jak.

Amos types in "Keyword the tall, muscular man; Jak"

Gets the echo, "You now know the tall, muscular man as Jak"

And from then on out, Amos can refer to Malik as Jak, or any other nickname he so chooses to give him.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

That's been Desertman's arguement the whole time.

[Qzzrbl]

I really should read the entire thread before I post....

But yeah, that way makes the best sense, definitely.

[Delstro]

Why don't we make it to where a character meeting another character decides what keyword to use?

Amos meets Malik, the tall, muscular man. Up to this point, Amos has to use Malik's sdesc to target him. Malik introduces himself as Jak.

Amos types in "Keyword the tall, muscular man; Jak"

Gets the echo, "You now know the tall, muscular man as Jak"

And from then on out, Amos can refer to Malik as Jak, or any other nickname he so chooses to give him.

You are receiving all my Karma as a reward for this idea. You win this thread. This is the best idea.

[Desertman]

Why don't we make it to where a character meeting another character decides what keyword to use?

Amos meets Malik, the tall, muscular man. Up to this point, Amos has to use Malik's sdesc to target him. Malik introduces himself as Jak.

Amos types in "Keyword the tall, muscular man; Jak"

Gets the echo, "You now know the tall, muscular man as Jak"

And from then on out, Amos can refer to Malik as Jak, or any other nickname he so chooses to give him.

You are receiving all my Karma as a reward for this idea. You win this thread. This is the best idea.

HEY THATS MY IDEA!!!

QZZRBL!!!!! You have scorned me again!!! SCOOORRRNNNEEEDDDD!!!!!

I dont care who gets credit, I just want it implemented.

I have always been in favor of doing away with general psionics and having them ONLY available to psions.

Except Barrier, everyone should still have barrier as a way to fight the psionicists.

The Way is nothing more than an IG instant messenger.

Its there for OOC convenience.

Its Cingular Wireless that has been cunningly disguised as being IC, when in fact, its the same damn thing as walking around with a cell phone in your hip pocket.

Call it the Way, its still a cell phone.

I have always been anti-Cingular Wireless in Zalanthas, I probably always will be.

[Desertman]

I was talking about not sharing playtimes simultaneously with both Jimmy, the guy who is supposed to be introducing you and the only one that CAN contact Lord Fancypants, and with Lord Fancypants himself.

It's my opinion it's stupid to make the game harder on a crap ton of people with your proposed system, just to make it easier on a couple of people.  And to make it particularly harder on offpeak players, who already have a really crappy time of trying to get into a clan and trying to make contacts with people as it is.  I'm sorry, but you haven't convinced me that the benefits would outweigh the downsides at all.

'Realism' is a really nice argument, if I want to play RL, but in RL I spend a lot of time sitting pointlessly by myself that I would really rather not replicate in the game world more than I already do.

That said, I've made my points and am done with this topic!  I don't have any more belief that I'm going to convince you than that you're going to convince me.

Armageddon is a hard game.

*shrugs*

[mansa]

Desertman's arguement is that you should not be able to contact people using their name.
He's conceided to being able to contact people with their name AFTER you have introduced yourself to them in game.

I don't agree with the first argument, and see the second one as unneccessary for the same reasons I agree with the current code implementation$