With great power comes great assininity (in the rinth)

[Synthesis]

Why so serious?

[spicemustflow]

I agree we should keep it civil, but not every complaint should be refuted by the joker card of "you don't have all the information, so die and enjoy the game".

[Sokotra]

What I'm disturbed about isn't particularly the topic, but the topic's being in the GDB. We, fellow players, have no right to force our wishes into other players RP. We, fellow players have no right to declare others guilty for some behaviour (take it to the staff, they're volunteering to maintain the game). Witch hunts are what disturb me and I guess I'm done with this thread - repeating myself over and over.

Hmm, well I think you've gotten a bit too defensive here.  Nobody is trying to "force" anyone to do anything.  Nobody is declaring anyone guilty, that I know of.

I don't see anything wrong with people discussing this on the GDB.  That's silly.  We are having a simple discussion, I thought, but it seems like somehow it has turned into something more than that.  I guess you lost me somewhere.  

I don't see anything wrong with people requesting more RP possibilities than just killing someone that is really not much of a threat at all.  Trust me, I'm all for the harshness of Armageddon.  I play a lot of thugs, raiders, mercenaries, and rogues.  Sometimes things end up in death, but usually it can be avoided to let yourself and everyone else have more fun rather than just getting stuff from a corpse object.  It's just my opinion that you need to have some self restraint, especially when you become a badass that can kill most players without them having a chance to get away.  When any of my characters get fairly tough, I come across dozens of noobs and weak players that I could easily kill for "IC" reasons.  However, I usually end up having much more fun roleplaying with them in multiple other ways.  Lots of times it ends up in a scuffle or a brief battle... but even then, it's real easy for me to just put my weapons away and/or turn mercy on and work things out IC without killing them in a few rounds of combat or a disappointing death via poison.  I like combat in Arm... I use it a lot, but I'm not going to go around killing weak players just because I can or I have a "reason" when there's many other realistic and IC ways to deal with them without turning their PC into a corpse-object.  Very few, if any, of them ever end up being a threat in the future... in fact, they usually end up doing what I ask them to do after I beat them down and let them live, if it comes to that.

Just my opinion.. I think it should be okay to discuss that here on the GDB.

[Nile]

Huh...I don't understand all these complaints. Its the 'rinth, deal with it or get out.

[spicemustflow]

The point is that it doesn't happen exclusively in the rinth.

[Janna]

I'm about 90% in agreement with the Erdlu. The other 10% are the 'exceptions' where a player in such a position would allow themselves to be beaten in some regard.

People in power stay in power by showing that power. For those of you who have seen it, think of "Gangs of New York." 'The Priest' as we find out later, let the butcher live and simply beat his arse pretty good to teach him a lesson, and what happened? The Butcher gathered more people to him, got stronger and came back to kill him. Then, Leo's character screws up, gets caught and the Butcher lets him live. Leo heals up, gathers people, comes back and kills the Butcher. Are we seeing a trend in this?

Oh, but wait, the certain gangs established in the 'Rinth could crush whatever some upstart gang could bring at them, so how does that count?! Easy. Why would a gang want some upstart gang to be allowed to grow and grow and grow until the point they -have- to do something about them at which time it costs them three times as many lives and resources to do?

Oh how about, "But a beating would do it! My PC would learn from that beating and run off, lick his/her wounds then come back and be a team player!" ...How does that leader know this? It's the -Labyrinth-. Stab your own mother in the back to carve off some skin to eat that day, but said leader should just 'trust' you to be good and not stab them in the back as soon as you can down the road to take their spot like -anyone- else in the Rinth would do?

If you want to be a solo thug in the 'Rinth, all the power to you, but do so out of sight of those who can and will kill you for causing them grief. If you're so stuck on this conflict RP, then do the bloody ground work to create a group of people around you, build up from the shadows, make the right connections and then take it to whoever you're pissed at and let it unfold. This "Leave me alone for now so I can get buff right in front of your face, then kill you" is completely laughable.

My sids.

[Sokotra]

If there is someone that might actually pose a real threat, fine...(which actually seems pretty rare to me) and again, there are many other possibilities.

[jhunter]

I'd like to repeat again, if there's a gang going on somewhere about something, anything illegal anywhere, you can't simply go there and start your own business. You either remain hidden, submit to the powerful or be so powerful that the powers that be can't mess with you. If you can do neither of these, it's not the other player's responsibility to grant your character's survival.[\quote]


Honestly, I agree with this completely. I don't think that we always have to resort to killing immediately but, there have been times that I've tried to do otherwise only to have the person force my hand. If your pc messes up and the end result is that your pc dies...it's noone else's fault but that character's. Some people seem to think that they can have their pc do whatever the hell they want with no consequences and complain whenever someone enforces realistic enough consequences for their actions upon them.

[Delstro]

Killing off all competition is a good way to start solo-RPing all the time.

What's more interesting?
Having someone you coulda killed but didn't and now have someone to hassle rob every other week.

or

Not, because you killed them when they first popped up.

I'm going with the first one, because I hate solo RP. In a place like the rinth when population grows and falters, your are doing more harm than good by killing off everybody when they pose a threat. Why don't you control them, use them, abuse them, then lose them? Why skip to losing them?

[Tisiphone]

Killing off all competition is a good way to start solo-RPing all the time.

What's more interesting?
Having someone you coulda killed but didn't and now have someone to hassle rob every other week.

or

Not, because you killed them when they first popped up.

I'm going with the first one, because I hate solo RP. In a place like the rinth when population grows and falters, your are doing more harm than good by killing off everybody when they pose a threat. Why don't you control them, use them, abuse them, then lose them? Why skip to losing them?

I think this is, so far, the only real compelling argument.

[Spoon]

I think powerful PCs ought to pick on people their own size. That's bound to drag a whole bunch of PCs into the equation.

[Sokotra]

Killing off all competition is a good way to start solo-RPing all the time.

What's more interesting?
Having someone you coulda killed but didn't and now have someone to hassle rob every other week.

or

Not, because you killed them when they first popped up.

I'm going with the first one, because I hate solo RP. In a place like the rinth when population grows and falters, your are doing more harm than good by killing off everybody when they pose a threat. Why don't you control them, use them, abuse them, then lose them? Why skip to losing them?

I think this is, so far, the only real compelling argument.

True, but then more players will continue to pop up here and there... so you can continue playing whack-a-mole instead of RP'ing.  Like I said, I like getting involved in combat as well... but snuffing out any and all possibilities (especially since most probably are really not much of a threat and probably won't ever become a threat) is a little dumb and boring.

[Delstro]

More people start popping up? So you can't RP, you have to continue to "Whack people back down"? Well, with all these people you are dominating, I know they've been getting stronger, use that. Abuse that. Then squelch when it gets out of control. Why skip to the end again?

If you are going along, asserting your authority over these other people, why don't you let them join you, so they can control those beneath them?

Take this scenario. Take the following as truths.
We have 70 people that logged on yesterday.
Most people, when they lose a character, pick a different place/role.
You have killed 2 PCs a week in your area.
Every week, instead of those 2 PCs creating RP and having fun with you, they are creating RP and having fun somewhere else.

If you "Squelched" them the first time they rose up against you, they are going to give your area a break until they think your PC has moved on. I know I would.

If you did that to 5 PCs in a place where a lot of people don't play, you are effectively killing the zone for playability and for fun. When others come to the place, they are going to see a lack of PCs, get bored, and die/leave. Leaving you that more alone.

If you gave 4 of those 5 a good RPing time over the course of a month, 2 of them might just go right back into the area to RP with you more. That is a win win.

So, like I was saying, if you like solo RP. Play whack a PC. If you like being entertained, keep the other PCs in their place.

[titansfan]

First off, i think the original poster had it nearly perfect.....I have played in the Rinth ALOT and I have seen amazingly powerful leaders who have let people go and it turned out better than if they would have killed them. I honestly think from my personal experiences that everyone should deal with it that way. I had to hurry with this comment otherwise I would have went into more details sorry.

[RogueGunslinger]

Killing off all competition is a good way to start solo-RPing all the time.

What's more interesting?
Having someone you coulda killed but didn't and now have someone to hassle rob every other week.

or

Not, because you killed them when they first popped up.

I'm going with the first one, because I hate solo RP. In a place like the rinth when population grows and falters, your are doing more harm than good by killing off everybody when they pose a threat. Why don't you control them, use them, abuse them, then lose them? Why skip to losing them?

I think this is, so far, the only real compelling argument.

I thought that was the argument.

[evil_erdlu]

I heartily agree. Killing off folks then wandering alone speaking to NPCs would be... boring. But now I will roleplay (we love roleplaying, eh?) a boss and play two scenarios.

Note: We're assuming the boss's gang is supposed to have a monopoly in spice dealing in Allanak streets. This is just a scenario.

Code Select Expand

Secret Hideout [NESWUD Save Quit]
This is the place..

The 'rinth rat stands here.
>
The 'rinth rat tells you, in Sirihish:
  "Yes, boss. Two missing fingers in left hand, brown skin, like shit. Usual clothing. Hunts his escru in Gaj. I saw'im sell a few grains only."
>emote lets out a sigh and nods.
The boss lets out a sigh and nods.
>think Don't they ever learn?

.... Our boss changes clothes, wears a veil etc. then goes to Gaj.

The Gladiator and Gaj [NES]
This is Gaj
There are several NPCs and tables here.
The shifty eyed, three fingered spice dealer is sitting at the bar here.
>emote pushes through the crowds towards the bar, hands clasped behind.
The male in a black silk veil pushes through the crowds towards the bar, hands clasped behind.
>change accent southern
You now speak in southern accent
>talk (leaning towards ~dealer, voice hushed) Greetings, heard you deal in pleasure.
At your table, you say in Sirihish, leaning towards the shifty eyed, three fingered spice dealer:
   "Greetings, heard you deal in pleasure."
>
The shifty eyed, three fingered spice dealer looks at you.
>
At your table, the shifty eyed, three fingered spice dealer says in rinthi-accented Sirihish, frowning:
   "Who said that?"
>talk You do, or not?
At your table, you say in Sirihish:
   "You do, or not?"
>
At your table, the shifty eyed, three fingered spice dealer says in rinthi-accented Sirihish, grinning widely:
   "How much?"
>emote lets out a soft sigh.
The male in a black silk veil lets out a soft sigh.
>palm ribbon pouch
You palm a pink ribbon from your silk pouch. (Let's assume your gang sign is a pink ribbon worn on hair.)
>wear ribbon
You wear a pink ribbon on your hair.
>
The shifty eyed, three fingered spice dealer stands up.
>
The shifty eyed, three fingered spice dealer stealthily moves north.
>emote slowly shakes his head.
The male in a black silk veil slowly shakes his head.
>contact assassinA
You suffer from the use of the Way.
You contact the first killer's mind.
>psi Manhunt. You know the target. Delay cancelled.
You send a psionic message to the first killer:
   "Manhunt. You know the target. Delay cancelled."
You suffer from the use of the Way.
>
You suffer from the use of the Way.
>cease
You break the psionic contact
>contact assassinB
You suffer from the use of the Way.
You contact the second killer's mind.
>psi Manhunt. Follow AssassinA.
You send a psionic message to the first killer:
   "Manhunt. Follow AssassinA."
>
You suffer from the use of the Way.
>
You suffer from the use of the Way.
>cease
You break the psionic contact
>

I wouldn't bother a second chance for such a person. I got there for a kill, I was there for only confirmation, I will kill. Now let's warp the scenario a bit...

Code Select Expand

......
You wear a pink ribbon on your hair.
>
The shifty eyed, three fingered spice dealer looks at you, eyes grown.
>
At your table, the shifty eyed, three fingered spice dealer says in rinthi-accented Sirihish, voice hushed:
   "I... have time for one last ale?"
>remo veil
You remove a black silk veil.
>change accent rinthi
You now speak in rinthi accent
>talk Time for what?
At your table, you say, in Sirihish:
   "Time for what?"
>
At your table, the shifty eyed, three fingered spice dealer says in Sirihish, head clasped between hands:
   "I'll die, eh?"
>talk (rubbing at his cheek) Maybe ye kin run away?
At your table, you say, in Sirihish, rubbing at his cheek:
   "Maybe ye kin run away?"
>
The shifty eyed, three fingered spice dealer slowly shakes his head, lips curved into a soft smile.
>
At your table, the shifty eyed, three fingered spice dealer says in Sirihish, head clasped between hands:
   "You own where I live. I've nowhere to run, nowhere to hide. I tried mah chance, I rolled snake eyes.. End of story."
>stand (touching %dealer shoulder)
Touching the shifty eyed, three fingered spice dealer's shoulder, you stand up from the bar.
>tell dealer Maybe it's not. Come to us tonight. We'll see.
You tell the shifty eyed, three fingered spice dealer, in Sirihish:
    "Maybe it's not. Come to us tonight. We'll see."
>emote wanders over to the bar's entrance, a smile on his face.
The boss wanders over to the bar's entrance, a smile on his face.
>think This one may be of use.
You think:
   "This one may be of use."
>contact assassinA
You suffer from the use of the Way.
You contact the first killer's mind.
>psi Manhunt cancelled
You send a psionic message to the first killer:
   "Manhunt cancelled."
You suffer from the use of the Way.
>
You suffer from the use of the Way.
>cease
You break the psionic contact

It's not always other player's fault. It's sometimes our fault to be not worthy enough to keep alive. EH?

[Delstro]

You could kill him... OR you could disrupt his source, beat him, report him to the authorities, beat him to unconciousness then throw him into the gaj, or tattoo a onto his face. Either way, you get some fun out of it, you involve other people, and you get the point across instead of...

The skinny tells the half giant- Subdue them.
Half giant subdues you.
The skinny stabs you to death.

Yeaaa..... Boring.

[Lord of Charas]

@evil_erdlu -

That's so selfishly subjective . . . Infact, it's frustrating even to see.
If that example b) happened within -any- clan, let -alone- one in the
'rinth, I would be completely insulted. Yes, even if I was the victim
in this case.

You're doing it wrong, okay, those examples were completely and
rhetorically stacked in the favour of your own arguement. Insane.

Never again okay ? Seriously, you're beginning to get silly here.
Stop while you're still ahead. Jeez.

No one's gonna send assassins on a guy they can could simply
tip off and have arrested and tortured.

Thats' what corrupt militia are for.

[Yam]

[RogueGunslinger]

I don't like when people sacrifice other peoples fun, for the sake of making the game world more 'realistic' and harsh. I'll end on that note.

[NoteworthyFellow]

No one's gonna send assassins on a guy they can could simply
tip off and have arrested and tortured.

Thats' what corrupt militia are for.

The best villains don't beat the system; they use it.

[Zoan]

Lex Luthor for president.

[The Archbishop]

Plain and simple if you play in the rinth, your gonna die sooner or later. If you point at labyrinth you doom your character to death.
If you step past Hathor's chances are your gonna die. If you do anything anywhere in the rinth expect fully to die, and be surprised if you don't.

[Synthesis]

Plain and simple if you play in the rinth Known World, you're gonna die sooner or later. If you point at labyrinth any starting location, you doom your character to death.
If you step past Hathor's out of the Hall of Kings chances are you're gonna die. If you do anything anywhere in the rinth Known World expect fully to die, and be surprised if you don't.

ftfy 

[The Archbishop]

Well I just thought this had to be reiterated for the rinth, since so many people seemed to have some expectancy to survive in the rinth.
But your corrections are duely noted and highly supported.