With great power comes great assininity (in the rinth)

[Jo]

I don't know about that stuff, OP.  Believe it or not, I haven't really had problems like these ones playing in the 'rinth, and my longest lived characters have all been based out of there.  You have to understand (both IC'ly -because a 'rinther would - and OOC'ly) that there are some things/fees/tributes/behaviours that the characters or organizations will NOT bend on.  The only time that I have seen PC's murdered are when they have defied someone openly or they have not been willing to work out a deal with those who are in power.  If you want to start your own crew or be that independent badass, then make sure that you're covering your ass with payouts etc, because there is no way that a bigger and more established crew would -ever- let you take business from them without getting their share.

I could even argue that 'rinther characters have it far easier than others, especially in the beginning... I can't go into too many details (because it's IC of course), but I bet you that -many- 'rinth veterans will agree with me on that.  It's all about being creative with your interactions, and keeping it in your head that the 'rinth is one of the most dangerous places in the known world.  Your character should be acting accordingly.  Just to add to that, some of the best roleplayers I've played with were in the 'rinth.

[touringCompl3t3]

You could kill him... OR you could disrupt his source, beat him, report him to the authorities, beat him to unconciousness then throw him into the gaj, or tattoo a onto his face. Either way, you get some fun out of it, you involve other people, and you get the point across instead of...

The skinny tells the half giant- Subdue them.
Half giant subdues you.
The skinny stabs you to death.

Yeaaa..... Boring.

I like your idea, Delstro.  I hope to have you as an enemy some day.  May the best man win.

=-)

[Lord of Charas]

I think that in many of the cases such as these, and I point no fingers as I say
this,is a desire to acquire more skills/equiptment, less desire to retain power.
Power is only half of the issue here, since no two-bit rat is going to touch your
power without you really seeing it. That's if you really have it. No crime boss
worth his salt is going to target those awkward, inexperienced
rookies as rivals to slay, or else his people start thinking that he's
actually -threatened- by these newbs. I mean, what will they do if they
start to think he's really that insecure ? They'll pop -him - off, since obviously,
if the little guys a threat, then they likely present twice, if not three times the
threat that the newb poses, and they can cull him easy.

So really. It's all down to the boss being eager for some more newbie wealth
(1/3), or, an insecure weakling that needs to be replaced (1/3)

Ever heard the saying, violence as the first option highest form of cowardice ?
Doubly so when you go after the more fragile targets. Very psychological.

I mean to say, what sort of master hunter go along proving to others -his- own
power and pwnage skills by hunting a flippin' tregil !? They don't prove to
the younger hunters their power/skill by killing off the weaker quarry, they
prove it by freckin' owning the bigger prey - like tarantulas and tembos !

Tregils a newbs game.

Newb-killings for thugs and bullies that want to show off to their bosses, -not -
the cunning, self-assured alpha's who -are- the bosses.         

They don't need to show off to anyone. A few grains sold under their noses
isn't gona bother them. It's none of their precious concern.

HOWEVRE.

It might bother their own spice-dealers though. They're the ones who run
the business of selling the spice. . .They enforce the monopolies because it
directly concerns -them-. It's their biz. The boss just kinda skims off of that.

So. This comes to that very last third (1/3). The percentage of the newb-killings
that are probably done by bosses who actually -have- a valid reason or have
been unavoidably steered into commiting the act by the very victim themself.

See ? It's complex isn't it ?

We don't need to force judgement on the bosses who might have had
their hands forced by them or by weaker employees? There could be more
than first meets the eye. . . . Just the other 2/3rds of 'em. 

It all just comes down to one simple equation.

33% of the lead3rs are petty/insecure/weaklings
33% of the lead3rs are in it just for the newb-golds
33% of the lead3rs actually might have a valid reason.

[Barzalene]

I want to clarify. Earlier in this conversation I pointed out that to rule by fear you have to be scary. You have to be willing to snuff out your problems and make sure they don't continue to be problems.
This however != Find problem and kill them with as little interaction as possible. They should be given the opportunity to repent and be useful to you. However, if they insist that you kill them at that point, by making it clear that they will continue to present a difficulty, however small, they need to be snuffed out. In much the same way you may try to shoo a mosquito before slapping it.

Or in other words, try other avenues before just killing everyone that you come across.

[touringCompl3t3]

I want to clarify. Earlier in this conversation I pointed out that to rule by fear you have to be scary. You have to be willing to snuff out your problems and make sure they don't continue to be problems.
This however != Find problem and kill them with as little interaction as possible. They should be given the opportunity to repent and be useful to you. However, if they insist that you kill them at that point, by making it clear that they will continue to present a difficulty, however small, they need to be snuffed out. In much the same way you may try to shoo a mosquito before slapping it.

Or in other words, try other avenues before just killing everyone that you come across.

Very true.  Another thing to consider, and Lord Charas has hinted at this as did the OP, is that it's not strictly necessary to have a relationship with all other PCs in the game, even if they're in the same line of work that you're in. 

For example, I'm a database programmer IRL, and yet out of the five or six hundred other DB programmers that live in this city, I'm only personally acquainted with about five of them.  Even though I'm surrounded by hundreds of rivals, I don't personally spend all of my time spying on them and plotting to off them, even though it's in my best interest to do so. 

While crime is by tradition a more violent and more competitive field than computer programming, even drug dealers are willing to respect boundaries rather than risk turf wars that are bad for business.  This was in part (if my limited understanding is correct) why the American mafia was allowed to flourish for as long as it was -- it served as a sort of check and balance against the violent turf wars that were dangerous for the gangsters and the customers, as well as law enforcement and innocent civilians as well.  In organized crime, turf wars = bad.  Last resort. 

I think that some people believe otherwise because so many gang movies portray the most turbulent and interesting aspect of gang leadership, most specifically turf wars.  The "business as usual" aspect of organized crime is far less exciting, yet is far more typical and representative of the day-to-day operation of a crime syndicate.

Without having extensive experience as a mobster, my understanding is that a mobster's typical day might include collecting information, monitoring operations, smoothing over problems, meeting with industry insiders, investigating tips, collecting rumors, generating business leads, building relationships and brokering deals.  Violence is the result of a failure in the normal business process.  Thugs make money off of violence -- gangsters do not.

[titansfan]

That's an amazing way of putting it touringcomp.....I've had characters in the Rinth that have died for small and worthless reasons as they gained a little power, when they could have been used and would have listened to any of the powers. I play to let other players have a good time, not to gain absolute power...it is a game afterall...and I view roleplay as a notch over complete tyranny of everyone in a certain area.

[Clearsighted]

This by no means applies to everyone, (or even the majority, I hope)

But...

Alot of people resort to PKing out of insecurity. They get so caught up in the adrenaline that either they aren't thinking, just spamming and trying everything they can to not die. Or else, they are afraid (however silly it sounds) of the consequences of letting you live. When 99% of the time, that person is 10 times more terrified of you.

It's not hard to leave mercy on and beat people up with some clubs, rob them and walk away. I wish everyone was on the same page. But sadly, they're not.

The other reason that people kill is boredom. Which makes them do more risky things. Like murdering people and getting themselves murdered.

That said. Some people deserve killing, and it's a noble, glorious thing to wipe them out.

Most of the time however, it's boredom or insecurity.

Also. When those in a position of authority are challenged, they're sometimes at a loss for how to respond and keep their 'street cred', whether a 'rinthi boss, a templar or a nooble...and killing is the answer.

That said. Perhaps people need to practice being better victims too. It can take just one bad experience of a person getting robbed of 50 sids and crying to their desert elf mindbender templar High Lord friend to rape your face, to swear off leaving survivors forever.

[Maso]

I haven't played in the 'Rinth for about 8 months but I was there for a good long time and during that period I don't think I ever saw a boss outright kill someone without good reason. I saw three awesome bosses (of different gangs) who all put the 'give them a chance and try to make them useful' practise into play. In my opinion the majority of mindless killing in the 'Rinth is not in the hands of the bosses, but the thugs who work for them (or don't work for them).

However, being a 'boss' in the underworld of Armageddon is not really relative to being a 'boss' of the American Mafia, I don't imagine it's as easy either. Despite possibly having a great NPC and vNPC following of minions you don't actually tend to have that much fire power, and even the little man can be a dangerous threat - this doesn't make you particularly weak, it's just the way the game is. It's very easy to scew someone over, find a magicker to wipe their ass out, be a magicker in disguise, whine to a templar, find them offpeak without their PC gang around etc etc in the reality of the game. Whereas they should have a large number of 'employees' beneath them who are loyal to protect their power (the NPC - vNPC population) this is not always represented well by the PC population.

Sometimes you just have to kill that newb who spat in your face, because he saw your face and now you don't trust him to do what you told him - because you can't watch him while your offline.

I can confidently say that during my short stint as a 'Rinthi crime boss - I really wish I'd killed that damn newb character.

[RogueGunslinger]

Yeah... I usually play that noob character you wish you killed, come to think of it.

I have power issues. I have intelligence issues. My characters have always had the latter, and will always try to gain the former... Man I suck at this game.

[morrigan]

Weighing in...

Some of the problems arise because a lot of people who play in the rinth have never lived in a similar place irl. I'm not insulting people when I say this next part, so don't get all ruffled. The majority of people who play muds, are -not- tough, street smart people. Most of them are intelligent, well educated, living in a decent neighborhood kind of people. This causes a lot of the people who become leaders of sorts in the rinth, to have to try to imagine how things would work, and a lot of times it's wrong. I always return to the rinth, it's my favorite place. Every time I go back I find the leadership of my favorite rinth group doing stupid things. I don't want to go into too much detail and risk being too IC, but some things just wouldn't happen, Like demanding certain amounts of sid from people in return for protection. Either people work for you, and get protection, or they don't.

I agree with what some others have said, the leaders who go after the little, small time nobodies, are silly. All that would do in a rl setting is show your followers that you were afraid, and in low income areas irl, that's the worst thing you can do. And as, RGS(I believe it was) said, these type of leaders are extremely easy to overthrow with a bit of planning, because when it comes down to it, they have no idea what they're doing. So..don't get too worked up, characters are fairly temporary in the rinth. Either patiently wait for someone to get rid of the problem, or put in a little planning and do it yourself.

Coded strength does not always = IC strength. I had a 15 day burglar that people were terrified of...and I -thought- he was fairly nice and reasonable.