Things the 'rinth needs

[titansfan]

I personally think it's fine right now...all the stuff you all have been mentioning is happening. Shit I have had many circumstances in which my Rinther has had TOO much to do....sometimes it was just crazy all the stuff I had on my plate.

[Forest Junkie]

I think the 'rinth would be a cooler place to play if it wasn't a breeding ground for twinks, pk'ers, and assassins who practice backstab on -everything-.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen the unarmed elderly npcs, and even the children npcs, dead. The alleyways are literally filled with them on a daily basis.

[Armaddict]

I can't tell you how many times I've seen the unarmed elderly npcs, and even the children npcs, dead. The alleyways are literally filled with them on a daily basis.

Indeed.  The players who -don't- do this end up getting mugged or killed by those who do such easily, often for reasons as simple as 'He wouldn't lower his hood when I told him to!'.

Not only that, but a personal peeve of mine...it seems to be the new thing to leave mercy on, so that you don't actually KILL those npc's.  Which means they never reload.  Which means that all the time, the 'rinth ends up as a slew of alleys just filled with stunned or incapacitated npc's, hence keeping new 'muggers' from reloading.

Which may deprive easy twinking, but it also deprives those alleys of the non-pc 'danger' that is supposed to be there in the first place.

[spicemustflow]

What rinth also needs are players who buy only the bare necessities and junk their starting coin, scraping their way up. It really ruins the mood of poverty, misery and desperation when you meet a PC and he says "let me just pop to the bank and we'll buy some picks.".

Oh, and Haruch Kemad.

[some guy]

Not only that, but a personal peeve of mine...it seems to be the new thing to leave mercy on, so that you don't actually KILL those npc's.  Which means they never reload.  Which means that all the time, the 'rinth ends up as a slew of alleys just filled with stunned or incapacitated npc's, hence keeping new 'muggers' from reloading.

The coded solution is to have NPCs actually die or recover when they've been incapacitated. I've always wondered why they don't, it doesn't seem to serve any purpose to leave them permanently disabled like that.

[Qzzrbl]

I think the 'rinth would be a cooler place to play if it wasn't a breeding ground for twinks, pk'ers, and assassins who practice backstab on -everything-.

Not to mention the magickers that spam cast on the live targets.

[Ghost]

Not only that, but a personal peeve of mine...it seems to be the new thing to leave mercy on, so that you don't actually KILL those npc's.  Which means they never reload.  Which means that all the time, the 'rinth ends up as a slew of alleys just filled with stunned or incapacitated npc's, hence keeping new 'muggers' from reloading.

To my observation, this is not entirely PC-doing, especially in the eastside.  There are a few NPC critters that fight each other.  There is one group of NPCs in the rinth wearing valuable equipment.  When an NPC from another clan comes nearby these, the fight starts.  And there is also a specific aggressive NPC that attacks anything so long they are not part of a certain society. In any of these NPC vs NPC fights, if one of them knocks the other out, the NPCs are not programmed to finish off, so when the threat is gone they stop fighting.  Adding to this, there is the NPC behavior of "assist those in your clan" so whenever there is a fight nearby, all the NPCs within one room distance are joining to the fight and the rest is just a pile of unconscious or dead NPCs.
There is also a certain place, that when you are walking there a climb check is done.  A critical failure might result in the NPC's getting knocked out.

I believe I have reported these NPC fights quite sometime ago, but I was not sure myself if the NPC gangs fighting each other was intentional or not, so when I did not hear back from it I did not press.

[Nyr]

Fast way to get rid of coin:

buy tattoos.

[Forest Junkie]

Fast way to get rid of coin:

buy tattoos.

I would, but tats cost more in the game than they do RL o_0

[Desertman]

The big problem I have with the Rinth is I absolutely refuse to run around randomly backstabbing the rancid piss out of NPC's.

I just cant force myself to do it.

Now, are the guys who run around spam killing NPC's like psycho's going to get uber leet and badass fifty times faster than me and probably kill me eventually because codedly they have "Mass Murdered" thier way up to God Backstab status? Yes.

Is that a bit disheartening? Yes.

But, thats the lay of the land.

I wish I could email in to the staff and say something like..."Ok, I havent murdered anyone randomly in the past couple of RL weeks, can I get a backstab stat boost just because I'm not being a complete idiot like the rest of these guys and shanking children and beggars six times a IC day?"

I probably wont get it, and so eventually I will probably break down and say..."You know what, fuck it, I'm tired of -sucking- donkey penis because I refuse to twink out, I guess I'll just conform." And then go on a mass killing spree for no reason.

[roughneck]

Fast way to get rid of coin:

buy tattoos.

And Spice.

[Ghost]

I believe the notion that "twinks constantly backstab all the kids in the rinth" is more of a player misperception.  I had a fair amount of time in the rinth and I have not seen too many of mass murderers/psychopaths in my time.  I would wager it is no more than the number of hunters who sweep the entire region killing all the critters in their path.

The reason the rinth is considered to be a ground for twink backstabbers, is because there are too many aggressive NPCs in the rinth, and they fight with each other too.  Once there is a fight, the NPCs fight until the threat is gone or they are dead.  Even when there is no PCs in the rinth, you could see piles of corpses or incapacitated NPCs lying on the ground.  Someone who comes upon such a scene would think it is the PCs' doing, however it is not always so.

Some PCs also have a single enemy in the rinth.  I encountered one PC, who talked about a certain NPC who beat him up back in the day and keeps beating him up everytime they see him.  He asked my help to take him and offered some coin and share of the loot.  We did go out and tried to backstab the NPC, but he beat us both up, and the guy went "I will get you" before fleeing.  I believe he could not get the said NPC, and eventually he died.  Now this guy was not your psycho, he did not kill everything.  Yet if you saw him baring his teeth to this NPC, you would probably think he is also responsible for the 28 dead NPCs in the next alley.

-Usually- (not always though), mass murderer/psycho mindset is pretty rare provided the player is not a newbie.  However, the NPC behavior in the rinth often will lead you to believe otherwise.

[Qzzrbl]

I believe the notion that "twinks constantly backstab all the kids in the rinth" is more of a player misperception.  I had a fair amount of time in the rinth and I have not seen too many of mass murderers/psychopaths in my time.

That's because they sneak every single step in their PC's life and spend retarded amounts of time hidden.

[Armaddict]

I wish I could email in to the staff and say something like..."Ok, I havent murdered anyone randomly in the past couple of RL weeks, can I get a backstab stat boost just because I'm not being a complete idiot like the rest of these guys and shanking children and beggars six times a IC day?"

This is too late for 1.arm, but I always wanted there to be a reputation/faction type thing going on.  Sure, you can backstab people from that gang, that tribe, that place, that group...but they'll remember.  So later on, one of those 'non-twinking' pc's is there, and gets attacked by that guy who is known as a troublemaker...and lo and behold, those guys decide to help this stranger against the bully that's caused them so much trouble.

I believe the notion that "twinks constantly backstab all the kids in the rinth" is more of a player misperception.  I had a fair amount of time in the rinth and I have not seen too many of mass murderers/psychopaths in my time.  I would wager it is no more than the number of hunters who sweep the entire region killing all the critters in their path.

Knowing some of those you played, I can remind you of the groups formed specifically to go out after muggers, because people couldn't stand the idea of wearing gear that wouldn't attract said muggers.  Not only that, but late night play often shows some who are attacking with no sign of reason.  Most not even from the alleys themselves.

[Ghost]

Knowing some of those you played, I can remind you of the groups formed specifically to go out after muggers, because people couldn't stand the idea of wearing gear that wouldn't attract said muggers.

Huh?  I don't understand what you mean here.  There were PC groups specifically killing mugger NPCs because they want to wear good outfit?

I know there was a warrior who was given a good set of armor and because of that he would be jumped on every corner.  He was good enough to drop a few muggers at a time, but he eventually died to an NPC gang bang.

I know another warrior who was obsessed with one weapon (a character quirk), and it took a good long while to make him drop the said weapon, because it was attracting every NPC's attention.

I am not sure if what you mean is these kinds of characters.

[Morrolan]

I had 'rinth PCs (over a year ago, and under a few hours of play) who was hunted all the way across the 'rinth by a PC (or a coded NPC so awesome that it made other NPCs look like congenital idiots) and backstabbed several times until dead.  This character had nothing visible (well, nothing at all, really) on them that would lead to an attack, kept to themselves, and was too newbie to actually sneak effectively.  Maybe he walked into the wrong place?  If that was the case, then fleeing back across the 'rinth might have gotten rid of his tail.

Sure, maybe that's just life in the 'rinth.  But it's at times like that that I might think back and say in a bored voice, "Congrats.  You're playing a homicidal PC.  Good job."  Right or wrong, that's the impression I walked away with.  Maybe it is just "player perception," but it's a player perception that the 'rinth isn't worth my time.

The things the 'rinth needs is, simply, a culture.  A real one that people could actually raise children in (they do!), with ways to survive (more or less) without going southside and without being the biggest badass ever.

Morrolan

[Zoan]

^ I had that problem with my first awesome, fun character. Sure, I walked into Eastside. I deserved a good stabbing. But I got the ole backstab; backstab; backstab ... routine which led to my demise. Where's the RP, yo? I went into East to have a little ZOMG Tense Conflict, but it didn't happen.

[Silverfaune]

^ I had that problem with my first awesome, fun character. Sure, I walked into Eastside. I deserved a good stabbing. But I got the ole backstab; backstab; backstab ... routine which led to my demise. Where's the RP, yo? I went into East to have a little ZOMG Tense Conflict, but it didn't happen.

This makes me feel really lucky.  My first character in the 'rinth wandered eastside when she should have wandered west.. got totally lost exploring (I didn' tknow there -was- a west/eastside then) and I was mugged.  I was scared shitless and had a great time for as long as it took me to hand over all my stuff and then run with my tail between my legs.  I got a good lesson in territory and the racial tensions, learned how to deal with really honestly being penniless in the slums instead of just pretending (I think I lost 800+, I was less than an hour old), and the elf that mugged me scored pretty big so we all won. 

I -could- have tried to attack him or tried the old "fuck off, I'm not giving you anything" routine and probably would have gotten clobbered good (or who knows, maybe he was a merchant?) and ended up dead.  But being given the opportunity to make that choice was great.  We should see more of that.  Wish I could give kudos now but I have no idea who it was.

[Synthesis]

Complaining on the GDB about the way people play is generally a pretty ineffective way of modifying player behavior in game.

I try to take the approach of evolutionary game theory:  people play the way they do because of a certain risk vs. reward structure that is dictated to a small degree by competition from other players, but to a much larger extent by the code situation in the 'rinth and the game at large.

If you modify this risk vs. reward structure by altering the code situation, player behavior will change and adapt accordingly.

For one of the given above examples, you could:
a) simply complain about elves chasing people west-side (GDB QQ strategy).
b) Form a player-based group dedicated to fucking up elves who go west-side (Player competition strategy)
c) Have an Imm code up a few "gatekeeper" NPCs who obliterate elves on sight (code-based strategy)

From the standpoint of overall effectiveness, the code-based strategy wins:  it's a permanent, 24/7 solution, and it gives players the impression "Yes, the immortals are serious about 'rinth boundaries.  Serious enough that they will put uber badasses west-side to enforce these boundaries."

What happened when the Imms coded up a bunch of muggers?  People stopped wearing fancy shit into the 'rinth.  Years of player complaining and attempts at enforcement didn't do a -damn- thing.  But when the Imms put a few hardass pterodactyl NPCs in, suddenly (almost) everyone conforms.

Hence, most of the suggestions I offered in the original post are code based.  Changing the local code environment will undoubtedly modify player behavior:  if you do it right, for the better.

[deconstruct99]

How about making it so you don't have to have your mouth permanently surrounding someone's diseased cock to survive in the rinth. Even when you -are- on your respective side and not making any trouble.

[RogueGunslinger]

How about making it so you don't have to have your mouth permanently surrounding someone's diseased cock to survive in the rinth. Even when you -are- on your respective side and not making any trouble.

I have never had this problem. Maybe your weak will is leeching into your characters.

[morrigan]

Some of you guys seem to be playing wrong. :p
I love the rinth, sure it needs a little work.
What I'd like to see is my rinth characters -not- becoming
the most insanely rich characters I've had. Life in the rinth is actually
a little too safe in my opinion. Once you know your way around, it's
cake.

And just for the record, if I lived in a warren of mazey alleys filled with people
who'd kill me for 10 sid, I'd sneak, skulk, hide and slink all the time too.

[Nyr]

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