Limiting Magickers

[Qzzrbl]

Wait.... If more people voted to make those guilds special-app only then why were they not made spec-app only...?

[Malken]

Because that's the story of the GDB, we all bicker amongst each others while the Staff laughs at us and then once in a while, one of them descends and pity us, and make us feel like we matter 

They know what is best for the mud from seeing what we are not able to, so if something was terribly wrong concerning the amount of magickers in the game, then I'm sure they would have changed it a few
months/years ago.. That's why I don't go crazy in the magicker threads anymore, it never leads to anywhere but locked topics.

To be honest, I haven't heard of any 'sorcerer' characters in game for over.. I don't know, it's been so long! I haven't seen *edited to hide stuff that would identify the presence of a sorcerer* either in forever.. I'm almost missing them!

Void magickers? No clue.. Never really heard of them in game either much, but then, I'm not really an Allanak player either..

Psionists are a bit different, I've heard of many of them in the last year or so, but most of it could be rumors, heck, I know one of my character was even called a Psi as well not too far in the past..

[Halcyon]

I may have seen a limited cross section, but in my first month of play, I have encountered four casters, including 1 nilazi and 1 defiler, and encountered 1 psion.  Left me feeling the deepness of the pool pretty abruptly, which may not be a problem.

[Mood]

Well bring back the conclave then.

Won't happen.

[Jenred]

Well shit, I really truly tried to keep this from becoming a "debate" thread.

But you people seem very intent on ignoring the initial request set forth for the thread, so it will now be deleted.

Then don't post things as fact such as: The majority of players see a problem with magick/magickers.

A quick way to start a debate is to push an issue through false facts.

Thanks for deleting it though, at least now its accurate.

[Forest Junkie]

Wait.... If more people voted to make those guilds special-app only then why were they not made spec-app only...?

Perhaps because it's not our decision?

[Kill4Free]

Making a thread, then telling everyone who doesnt agree with you to go away really inst a constructive thread at all actually.

[manonfire]

Well bring back the conclave then.

Won't happen.

Actually, that's not true.

"Bringing back the Conclave" is simply a phrase for "form a group of rogue magickers who cooperate and work towards a common goal", which happens quite frequently IG.

The only noteworthy difference is the lack of IMM-support.

[Desertman]

Well shit, I really truly tried to keep this from becoming a "debate" thread.

But you people seem very intent on ignoring the initial request set forth for the thread, so it will now be deleted.

Then don't post things as fact such as: The majority of players see a problem with magick/magickers.

A quick way to start a debate is to push an issue through false facts.

Thanks for deleting it though, at least now its accurate.

Exact wording was..."A large number of the playerbase"

Which is open to perception...I consider the number of players "large", where as you may not.

If you intend to quote me, please do so accurately.

The thread was intended to be a place where those who already agreed with the general statement that magickers should be limited could throw ideas back and forth about how to limit them.

In the beginning of the thread this was expressed plainly, along with a modest request that those who dont agree, go on to a different thread devoted entirely to them and thier view points.

It was a humble request, that wouldnt have hurt anyone, and would have kept open a place that was debate free where those who already agreed with a given view point could discuss what they agree on, instead of having to debate, again.

Apparently, either some folks didnt fully grasp that concept, maybe I didnt explain it well enough, or they just thought it would be more fun to start up a debate.

I cant blame them really, I probably would have done it as well, but I also wouldnt pretend like I wasnt being an asshole. I am a asshole a lot, and I stand by it when I am.

[Desertman]

Making a thread, then telling everyone who doesnt agree with you to go away really inst a constructive thread at all actually.

That completely depends on what you are trying to construct...In this case I was trying to construct a thread for only those who agreed with me, as such, the only way for it to be constructive, would be for those who didnt agree with me, to not post.

[AmandaGreathouse]

I am not for the direct idea of limiting mages, per se, but would instead like to see the refreshing karma system, if it was done well. After all, I don't want us to -all- be ubers sorcs of d00m, what with my newfound karma thanks to Jherlen. See the following:

INFINITE KARMA EXPLOIT
This is one the staff really don't want you to know about. They coded a secret karma backdoor into the game so that players they know IRL can get 8 karma without the staff having to set it. All you have to do is "wish all I am the walrus" and all karma options will be set on your account.

There,  now. I don't really think that the number of magickers itself is a problem, but I do think that there should be some sort of cooldown period between eleventy-karma roles. Be it sorc or mul, or rukkian.

[Kill4Free]

I only ran into one hostile magicker (well PC one) in my 35 days played, I dont really see them as a major issue.  Though they did kill my most favorite char   As for the magicker issue that you believe exists, perhaps make them slightly less effective at slaying other PC's, so even though there are as many, they are all less of a threat.

[Desertman]

I only ran into one hostile magicker (well PC one) in my 35 days played, I dont really see them as a major issue.  Though they did kill my most favorite char   As for the magicker issue that you believe exists, perhaps make them slightly less effective at slaying other PC's, so even though there are as many, they are all less of a threat.

The problem isnt how powerful they are/them killing me. I by far have killed MANY more magickers with mundanes, than I have had killed by magickers. Any time someone is a magicker, you have an unspoken (But documented) reason to hate and kill them. Its a beautiful thing.

The problem is, I shouldnt WANT to kill them, I should WANT to run from them, and fear them like the plague, because they are horrible and rare and the boogy men mommy told me about.

This isnt the case though...They are just like every other mundane, sitting at the taverns in bulk, talking it up like friendly little butt-buddies...As such, it makes it extremely hard to RP being deathly afraid. Unless you want to constantly be deathly afraid, because they are constantly around, because there are a ton of the fuckers.

I dont want to have to constantly rp being a trembling tregil, which I should, any time I witness these rare and horrible beings gracing me with thier unholy presence.

But bluntly, the shit really loses its fucking luster after four times in one game night and you get to the point where you say..."Fuck it, I'll treat them like everyone else, because rp'ing being the only one disgusted by/afraid of them, starts to really fucking blow after the tenth encounter in on IG week."

[manonfire]

A little off-topic, but I think it was jmordetsky that said - "I'm more afraid of maxxed sap, hide, and sneak than I am of a maxxed magicker."

[Desertman]

A little off-topic, but I think it was jmordetsky that said - "I'm more afraid of maxxed sap, hide, and sneak than I am of a maxxed magicker."

QFT

But only for one reason...

The vast majority of magickers I see, are actually played by good players. I hate magickers and the fact there are seven hundred of them, I dont hate the players, the players usually rock.

(Unless they are your basic tavern sitting friendly sort, then I want to gouge thier eyes out, but, anyways...)

Typically, a magicker player will not "One-Hit-Smoke" you, even though they can, because they understand there is a sort of OOC code of conduct you follow...like Spiderman..."With great power, comes great responsibility."

Where as a badass mundane really has one code to follow...like Jack Sparrow..."What a man can do, and what a man cant do"...

You are usually much more likely to get Insta-Sapped and killed by a badass mundane, because it doesnt feel as OOC'ly twinky to the player of the mundane to do such, as it would for a maxxed magicker to Fireball-of-Hell you.

[Kill4Free]

First I wish to state that I have not run, and never will run a magicker outside of a, what their spells do, type deal at most.  As I do mostly agree, you should fear them.  But on the other hand, I dont think limiting them will make much of a difference, all that will do is get rid of the people who run magickers and die, and make another then die fast again.  After a short time ALL the magickers that are left are gonna be long lived, and pretty much all have their skills maxed.  Limiting them, all that would do is get rid of the newby ones.  Also most of the magickers that one sees are the long lived ones, as they know how to get about, they have the right friends in the right places, and can be in public to some extent.  I do not think limiting it will make much of a difference, unless it is brought to 1/3 of what there is now.

I think we just have to trust the players to act responsibly, and if perhaps you run into more magickers then you feel should be around, maybe move to a different part of the world, as they arent really everywhere.

[Desertman]

First I wish to state that I have not run, and never will run a magicker outside of a, what their spells do, type deal at most.  As I do mostly agree, you should fear them.  But on the other hand, I dont think limiting them will make much of a difference, all that will do is get rid of the people who run magickers and die, and make another then die fast again. 

I fail to see the negative side to this.

After a short time ALL the magickers that are left are gonna be long lived, and pretty much all have their skills maxed.  Limiting them, all that would do is get rid of the newby ones.

I dont see a negative to this either.

  Also most of the magickers that one sees are the long lived ones, as they know how to get about, they have the right friends in the right places, and can be in public to some extent.  I do not think limiting it will make much of a difference, unless it is brought to 1/3 of what there is now.

I still dont see the negative side?

I think we just have to trust the players to act responsibly, and if perhaps you run into more magickers then you feel should be around, maybe move to a different part of the world, as they arent really everywhere.

Mundanes going into hiding so that magickers can populate civilization in bulk...An interesting concept, pretty much the exact opposite of what the documentation puts forth, but still, interesting.

[Kill4Free]

First I wish to state that I have not run, and never will run a magicker outside of a, what their spells do, type deal at most.  As I do mostly agree, you should fear them.  But on the other hand, I dont think limiting them will make much of a difference, all that will do is get rid of the people who run magickers and die, and make another then die fast again.

I fail to see the negative side to this.

After a short time ALL the magickers that are left are gonna be long lived, and pretty much all have their skills maxed.  Limiting them, all that would do is get rid of the newby ones.

I dont see a negative to this either.

  Also most of the magickers that one sees are the long lived ones, as they know how to get about, they have the right friends in the right places, and can be in public to some extent.  I do not think limiting it will make much of a difference, unless it is brought to 1/3 of what there is now.

I still dont see the negative side?

I think we just have to trust the players to act responsibly, and if perhaps you run into more magickers then you feel should be around, maybe move to a different part of the world, as they arent really everywhere.

Mundanes going into hiding so that magickers can populate civilization in bulk...An interesting concept, pretty much the exact opposite of what the documentation puts forth, but still, interesting.

Ill bring up those 4 points once more, the first point, wasnt actually a point, I dont know how you can say there was a negative or positive aspect of it really.  It was an opinion, wether right or wrong is an opinion, not a negative or positive side to it.  Though if you agreed with my opinion and took it as fact, you might view it that way, so I will address it that way as that is the only way it makes sense.  Limiting magickers solely because there is no negative aspect to it, is sorta stupid first of all, and since I said that is all it will do, and you agreed to that, there isnt any other statement that might be made about that issue.

The second one, the negative side is that after a short time, pretty much no one can make magickers.  Not only that, but it really doesnt lower the chance of anyone dying to magickers.  Might even increase it because they cant really take more risks by letting certain people live.  And the problem the bulk of the playerbase has is that magickers kill people too easily.

The third point relates back to your previous argument that you run into magickers too often.  Putting a limit on wont change that at all really, as I just explained.

The fourth point, is not mundanes going into hiding, I played a lot of characters and I have not had this massive magicker issue, and I am sure many of the players are the same way.  If you run into too many you have several options, one is move somewhere, where you can rp the way that you want to rp, where you are scared.  That is your choice to role play like that, and it is also your choice to put yourself in a situation where you are able to rolel play like that.  Saying stuff like, oh the game is wrong, it doesnt fit my characters RP style is just childish.  If there are more magickers about, then well I guess Zalanthas has more magickers, thats just the way it is.  Documentation wasnt really updated in years - decades in game time.  So it is possible situations could have changed.

Initially I did respect you for taking a stand, saying magickers should be feared, but now it just seems like you are on a crusade, ignoring fact, not caring about opinions, and being unwilling to take advice.  The boards are definetly not the place to take it to, as I guarantee you, no matter which way this discussion ends, nothing will be done about it, it is the way it is, and lets leave it at that.

[Desertman]

Ill bring up those 4 points once more, the first point, wasnt actually a point, I dont know how you can say there was a negative or positive aspect of it really.  It was an opinion, wether right or wrong is an opinion, not a negative or positive side to it.  Though if you agreed with my opinion and took it as fact, you might view it that way, so I will address it that way as that is the only way it makes sense.  Limiting magickers solely because there is no negative aspect to it, is sorta stupid first of all, and since I said that is all it will do, and you agreed to that, there isnt any other statement that might be made about that issue.

I'm sorry, what I meant to say...Instead of..."I dont see any negatives"...was..."I see major positives". Sorry to confuse you there.

The second one, the negative side is that after a short time, pretty much no one can make magickers. 

That would be the point to limiting. The magickers have already been made, thus the slots are filled, thus they are limited. You will still be able to make magickers, but only when slots become open. Like Templars, and Noble/Merchant Family members now. This process is already used for other classes/guilds/roles, this would just expanded a process that already works, to magickers as well.

Not only that, but it really doesnt lower the chance of anyone dying to magickers.

Really? Its seems to me that "less magickers" = Less potential magicker deaths. Unless you are saying the potential to die to a magicker is the same, regardless of numbers. 10 magickers = more risk than 5 magickers. Right? Maybe my simple elementary math is off, I could be wrong.

  Might even increase it because they cant really take more risks by letting certain people live.  And the problem the bulk of the playerbase has is that magickers kill people too easily.

I dont know what to say to this, since I have no clue how to respond to..."Less magickers = more potential magicker deaths". It would be like trying to argue with gravity I think.

The third point relates back to your previous argument that you run into magickers too often.  Putting a limit on wont change that at all really, as I just explained.

Again, less magickers = less potential magicker encounters. I still fail to see how reducing the number of magickers doesnt reduce the number of magickers there are to encounter. Please explain that, how having less of something, means you encounter it just as much?

The fourth point, is not mundanes going into hiding, I played a lot of characters and I have not had this massive magicker issue, and I am sure many of the players are the same way.  If you run into too many you have several options, one is move somewhere, where you can rp the way that you want to rp, where you are scared.  That is your choice to role play like that, and it is also your choice to put yourself in a situation where you are able to rolel play like that.  Saying stuff like, oh the game is wrong, it doesnt fit my characters RP style is just childish. 

Matter of preference and opinion. You are entitled to it.

If there are more magickers about, then well I guess Zalanthas has more magickers, thats just the way it is. 

See, you are correct here...More, does equal more.

Documentation wasnt really updated in years - decades in game time.  So it is possible situations could have changed.

Until the documentation is updated, I wont presume to make assumptions about the documentation. I will go off of what the documentation says, not what i think it "Maybe, could possibly say if someone decided to change it, which they havent".

Initially I did respect you for taking a stand, saying magickers should be feared, but now it just seems like you are on a crusade,

Yes.

ignoring fact,

Please present some, I will try to ignore it, until you do though I fail to see that I could possibly ignore what you havent given.

not caring about opinions,

Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one. So you are correct here, I could care less about opinions. All opinions but my own, that is.

and being unwilling to take advice.

Good advice I am more than willing to take, I just havent seen any.

  The boards are definetly not the place to take it to, as I guarantee you, no matter which way this discussion ends, nothing will be done about it, it is the way it is, and lets leave it at that.

I got verrin hawks to produce more feathers in a matter of two RL days from a single board post once. I have faith in them, they do change things.

[ale six]

Hey Desertman, when you reply to people, could you use separate block quotes for their comments instead of block-quoting the entire post and inserting inline comments of yours in bold? It'd be a lot easier to read and follow what you're saying.

[manonfire]

No kidding.

I've gotta Control+Mousewheel to see what you're rambling on about.

[Desertman]

Hey Desertman, when you reply to people, could you use separate block quotes for their comments instead of block-quoting the entire post and inserting inline comments of yours in bold? It'd be a lot easier to read and follow what you're saying.

Yes, I think I could.

[Kill4Free]

Im not even gonna bother replying to him anymore, ignores half of what I say, and I cant even read his replies.

Though I will answer his last message.

No, they will not make a limit solely because you are complaining on the boards.  Most of the players who even answer your thread dont even agree with you.

[Desertman]

Im not even gonna bother replying to him anymore, ignores half of what I say, and I cant even read his replies.

And right after....

No, they will not make a limit solely because you are complaining on the boards.  Most of the players who even answer your thread dont even agree with you.

I am above throwing in a snarky laugh...I am...really.

Edited to Add:

No I'm not...*snarky laugh*

[Kill4Free]

Just to clarify something for the intellectually challenged, that was in the same thread, not a seperate reply, though I will admit I did scroll down to the last line and read it, which I said in the post....

I was actually curious as if anyone supported you at all, and I saw 1 person in this thread other then you, who agreed with limiting magickers.   That should tell you something.