Snemote

[jcljules]

I was recently thinking about improving emotes, and I thought of something interesting. Currently with the hemote functionality, we can emote things that may or may not be seen. What I would like to see is something that allows the action to be seen no matter what, but who performed it may or may not be discovered...

Hence, the Sneak-Emote or Snemote...

Basically, this is how it would work.

> snemote kicks %amos under the table.
> Someone kicks you from under the table

And if you succeed at such and such a check, or are actively watching, Malik, lets say...

> snemote kicks %amos under the table.
> A tall, gangly man kicks you from under the table.

The opportunities are limitless...

> Someone in the crowd taps you on the shoulder.
> Someone snickers at the muscular byn sergeant.
> A pungent aroma is coming from someone in the crowd.

I realize this is what happens when you are hidden, but I want there to be a way to do an emote like this without hiding. It could also rid us of the annoying problem of everyone immediately scanning whenever 'someone' does something.

What do you guys think? And staff; would this be hard to code?

[Karo]

Sounds like it would be cool.  And my initial guess is that it wouldn't take much to code (just change hemote very slightly)

[Sokotra]

I was recently thinking about improving emotes, and I thought of something interesting. Currently with the hemote functionality, we can emote things that may or may not be seen. What I would like to see is something that allows the action to be seen no matter what, but who performed it may or may not be discovered...

Cool idea... it would be good if anybody had the ability to do this, but I would guess that maybe the sneaky types and con artists and such might be better at it. 

[Synthesis]

If only there were something in the code that reflected being unseen or inconspicuous...

Wait...

Wait....

If you hide and then emote tapping someone on the shoulder, they won't know who did it!

[jcljules]

If you hide and then emote tapping someone on the shoulder, they won't know who did it!

Ahem...

I realize this is what happens when you are hidden, but I want there to be a way to do an emote like this without hiding.

Basically, I'm saying I want to be able to do that kind of thing without first hiding. It doesn't make sense to be at a bar and do something like kick someone under the bar by standing, hiding, then doing it.

[Lizzie]

But if you're at a bar, and someone kicks your RIGHT leg, on the RIGHT side of the leg, then you know damned well who kicked you. You know it was the guy sitting at the stool on your right.

If someone kicks you while you're sitting at a table with only one other person sitting there, and it wasn't him, then it was -definitely- someone who didn't want to be seen. And if he didn't want to be seen, then he was hiding. Because there's no way to get under the table and BE seen..and you NOT know that it was him.

In other words - if you -can- see the person, then his movements won't be hidden. If you are in striking distance of a person who isn't hidden, then his movements won't be hidden either, nor will his identity when he strikes you. He won't -be- someone in the crowd. He'll be the hooded figure who just walked through and directly into your path. Or he'll be the templar's soldier, who singled you out to tap you on the shoulder. Or he'll be the girl sitting at the intimate table next to you, groping your crotch. If you don't know that she's the one doing that, then you -should- be dealing with a hidden/invisible person. Or - your character is just really..really.. really dense.

[jcljules]

Ok, maybe thats a bad example. But there are plenty of other ways in which this could be used. You might know who kicked you under the table, unless your dense; but in the crowd of a market, how would you know if someone tugged your ear, pinched your bum, whatever; and ran away into the vNPC crowd?

You dedicated three paragraphs to my bad example, and nothing to the actual idea. You said that if you can see a character, you know what movements are taking place... but what about a room with thirty PCs in it, and a whole crowd of vNPCs? Your character can -see- all of those people, but they are not -watching- them, so they might not notice who performed subtle movements.

Besides, I would love to see...

> Someone snickers at the tight-panted templar.

[Lizzie]

I guess I can see the broader view when you explain it like that..however. I don't think it should be a free-for-all. Maybe..anyone who has "scan" or "listen" running, should be able to see it as a normal emote and not as a hidden emote. And anyone watching that person should see it as normal. It wouldn't require a skill level check. Only a skill check. So if you have the skill, and it's "on," then you succeed the check. Even if your skill sucks. Because unlike people who don't have it on, you -are- trying to pay closer (coded) attention. So anything that someone who is -not- hiding does, will be noticed by anyone who has listen, scan or watch <snemote guy> running.

I include "listen" because of your example..which is likely to be the -type- of thing a lot of people will want to use it for. "Someone snickers at the templar." Well..if you are paying close attention to the crowd, and *listening* - then you will not only hear that snicker, but you will be able to pinpoint the location of whoever is doing the snickering. And if that person isn't hiding, you will see clearly that - there he is, right there.

[Lakota]

Your idea is sound, though hemote can already be used to do this.

You don't have to be hidden to use hemote.

From the helpfiles:

Hidden emotes should be used to represent subtle motions that wouldn't be obvious to the room you are in. Only those who are actively watching you, or who are very observant will notice these.

The only problem with hemote is, you're not supposed to use it to physically interact with characters, because they may not notice it. So...it may be against the rules as they are set up now to put in snemote, because it's very purpose is meant to do things such as kicking someone's leg under a table.

I'm not sure...staff, will one of you weigh in on this?

[jcljules]

No, you misunderstand what I mean; I realize that this can be done with hemote, but hemote is all or nothing... either you see the action and who did it, or you don't. With this new command I want everyone to definitely see the event, but perhaps not who did it.

Again, the kicking under the table example was a bad one;

And I agree with your additions, Lizzie.

[Agent_137]

it's a good idea but i'd like to see some practical cases where it would be needed before I think it's a good idea to implement it.

[Lakota]

No, you misunderstand what I mean; I realize that this can be done with hemote, but hemote is all or nothing... either you see the action and who did it, or you don't. With this new command I want everyone to definitely see the event, but perhaps not who did it.

Again, the kicking under the table example was a bad one;

And I agree with your additions, Lizzie.

Eh, I think I do understand. My point is, I don't think the staff will support this due to the current helpfile for hemote. It states that physically interacting with someone using a hidden emote should not be done. I imagine the same would be said of "snemote."

It seems like you're wanting to be able to do an emote that a codedly hidden pc would do while you are still codedly visible, i.e. "someone does 'a'." Again, I don't think that under the current helpfiles this would be supported by staff. Does that make more sense?

[Sokotra]

My point is, I don't think the staff will support this due to the current helpfile for hemote. It states that physically interacting with someone using a hidden emote should not be done.

I think that's why he's asking and made up the idea for "snemote", which I think might be a good one.  Basically it is just someone trying to get away with something similar to what someone might do while hidden.  In the case with "snemote", however, they would have a -chance- of getting away with it without having to disappear (go and hide) and reappear which would be kinda silly, in a way.  To me this might be more like a good addition to the 'sleight of hand' skills, after thinking about it.

[jcljules]

And I don't really understand the ban on physical interaction with hidden emotes... it seems like it could be subject to abuse, but so could plain old emoting, just as badly.

> emote begins uttering an incantaion.

When you're not a magicker, and the like. Though I suppose it -is- hard to file a player complaint against 'Someone'