Encumberance and role-playing

[touringCompl3t3]

Morgenes has started a topic about the new Encumberance code:

http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php?topic=31466.0;topicseen

Honestly, I had been wondering about the encumbrance thing for years.  When I first saw the code change go in, I was happy to see an extra added little dose of realism added to the code.

However, the more I thought about it the more misgivings I had.

Without addressing the appropriateness of encumbrance affecting combat, I'd like to raise a separate issue:

General problems with encumbrance.

Encumbrance over all seems good in the Arm video game, because it realistically limits the amount of armament/treasure that I can carry around, forcing me to make decisions and sacrifices in the interest of playability.  Much more fun than tabletop game, because Arm does the math for you instead of scrawling stuff in the margin of your character sheet and making liberal guesses.

However there are (at least) three situations that encumberance causes negative detractions:

1) Preventing me from carrying a change of clothes for my character, affecitng realism. 

2) Preventing me from carrying role-play aids around for my character, like riding gloves, wash towels, hair-combs etc.  Props are fun.

3) Forcing me to sell things to NPCs that I would rather sell to PCs (for the interaction) because the stuff is heavy and the PCs are not online when I need to dump it.

Obviously, someone will suggest that I get an apartment.  I sometimes do, but these are not practical for all players/characters.



Does this ideas make any sense?  Is there a work-around that I am missing?  Any thoughts???

[Fathi]

1. What type of clothes are you talking about, here? I think even an elf with low strength could comfortably wear one set of clothes and some accessories and still carry an extra top, bottom, cloak, and boots. If we're talking 12-piece outfits with different jewlery or bulky cloaks or armour... then yeah, you shouldn't be able to carry around a ton of that stuff, even if you'd like to.

2. I have never, ever encountered a situation where a pair of riding gloves, towels, combs, codedly unnecessary first aid supplies (healer's pouch, thread, needle, splints), and other "RP aid" items encumbered my character grossly. Are you already carrying a ton of other crap?

3. Store the item somewhere if you're determined to sell to PCs. There are rentable apartments, clan estates with lockers and personal storage areas, wilderness lairs, even a few urban lairs with save rooms.

Not to sound like I'm just shitting all over your post, but it sounds to me like your problems are completely imagined.

I can't imagine 1 or 2 happening (as far as low-weight items like clothes and little props drastically affecting your encumbrance) unless your character is already carrying around a small thirft store's worth of crap in his backpack.

If anyone's encountered things that contradict this, please enlighten me. I just can't see it happening.

[Is Friday]

As for the "an apartment is not practical for everyone", it would be cool if you could "store" things, or hide them in a sense. I believe a burying idea was mentioned in another thread not too long ago, and this ties into this.

For instance: You're at the rubble above Under Tuluk, and there are a lot of hiding spaces available here. Hiding items skill is based on a few skills that revolve around sleight of hand.

You can do a few things to find this thing.
1.) Know exactly where it is. i.e. forage behind bottom of pile of rocks near pillar (where you put it earlier) Keywords being taken from the room description.
2.) Have a high scan ability, or relate-able foraging skill.
3.) Randomly search with a low chance of finding anything. (Extremely low.) You'd obviously have to cap this to maybe 2-3 tries per RL hour or something before you could again have the chance at success.

Now adapt this to work in huts, (under boards, behind panels,) under roads, (move bricks,) in the forest, etc.

[BreakBad]

I could be wrong, but you can store shit in the bank can't you? And by "shit" I mean objects other than coins.

[Cutthroat]

I believe you can, but only small objects, and only for a certain fee. It would be nice to be able to store things in other non-apartment places.

[Delstro]

Fixed in Arm.2. You will be able to rent footlockers as far as I know.

Other than that, I have no experience, and that is all I wanted to say.

[touringCompl3t3]

Yeah, good points, guys.  I'll be able to store stuff better in Arm 2.  Sweet.

[Kyviantre]

With my last char, I ended up having to throw some RP logic for playability due to this.  Carrying around sell-ables and too much coin is what eventually ended up with being forced to find an apartment.  The only outside save holes I knew of at the time were regularly visited, and I don't trust you lot not to swipe my stuff and flee while I'm sleeping!

Be nice to have footlockers, but I'm far FAR more up for the hide-item function!

[LittleLostThief]

Wear lighter armor.  It won't kill you.

[Kyviantre]

Was only wearing sleeves, a gorget and cap for armour.  Next suggestion?

[Tisiphone]

Was only wearing sleeves, a gorget and cap for armour.  Next suggestion?

Play a dwarf.

[roughneck]

Playing the opposite extreme is funny too.

I've had an HG that could haul a house but couldn't have more than two or three things in his inventory at a time because of agility.

[Synthesis]

I solved this by carrying around a pair of chests.

I mean, a chest is about the size of a spice-box, by half-giant standards, right?

It would be nice if HGs could hang backpacks and huge bags on their belts, heh.

[Archbaron]

It would be nice if HGs could hang backpacks and huge bags on their belts, heh.

Yes, please.

[Reiloth]

I have also never had problems RPing the existence of RP prop tools. I've had characters pull a tube of spice from behind their ear, sort of like a cigarette, and smoke this 'pretend tube'. No one batted an eye. I think you shouldn't have to limit yourself by encumbrance. Add to the flavor of the world, within reason.

[a strange shadow]

I would avoid using virtual props that are coded objects which have coded effects.

(such as spice tubes)

[Agent_137]

unless you're the militia then pulling virtual spice tubes from behind other people's ears is the thing to do!

[Yam]

Morgenes has started a topic about the new Encumberance code:

http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php?topic=31466.0;topicseen

Honestly, I had been wondering about the encumbrance thing for years.  When I first saw the code change go in, I was happy to see an extra added little dose of realism added to the code.

However, the more I thought about it the more misgivings I had.

Without addressing the appropriateness of encumbrance affecting combat, I'd like to raise a separate issue:

General problems with encumbrance.

Encumbrance over all seems good in the Arm video game, because it realistically limits the amount of armament/treasure that I can carry around, forcing me to make decisions and sacrifices in the interest of playability.  Much more fun than tabletop game, because Arm does the math for you instead of scrawling stuff in the margin of your character sheet and making liberal guesses.

However there are (at least) three situations that encumberance causes negative detractions:

1) Preventing me from carrying a change of clothes for my character, affecitng realism. 

2) Preventing me from carrying role-play aids around for my character, like riding gloves, wash towels, hair-combs etc.  Props are fun.

3) Forcing me to sell things to NPCs that I would rather sell to PCs (for the interaction) because the stuff is heavy and the PCs are not online when I need to dump it.

Obviously, someone will suggest that I get an apartment.  I sometimes do, but these are not practical for all players/characters.



Does this ideas make any sense?  Is there a work-around that I am missing?  Any thoughts???

It does not prevent you from doing any of those things.

For the record, encumbrance DID affect combat. It was just changed to have more of an impact.

[Reiloth]

I would avoid using virtual props that are coded objects which have coded effects.

(such as spice tubes)

I don't. I'd rather rely on props most of the time and flesh out the world with virtual props as much and as often as I utilize and acknowledge  vNPC's. In other words: realistically and not terribly often.

[touringCompl3t3]

I have also never had problems RPing the existence of RP prop tools. I've had characters pull a tube of spice from behind their ear, sort of like a cigarette, and smoke this 'pretend tube'. No one batted an eye. I think you shouldn't have to limit yourself by encumbrance. Add to the flavor of the world, within reason.

I like this idea.  It involves the proper amount of creativity and peevishness.  I'll give it a go.

[Malken]

I would avoid using virtual props that are coded objects which have coded effects.

(such as spice tubes)

I don't. I'd rather rely on props most of the time and flesh out the world with virtual props as much and as often as I utilize and acknowledge  vNPC's. In other words: realistically and not terribly often.

What do you do if someone asks you if they can have a puff of your tube? You pass the virtual tube over and hope that they'll play along?

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Yeh. The thing is, I agree with the shadow. Having virtual rags and cook tools and special items for crafting is one thing. Have virtual spice is another.

[BlazinDayz]

I only find it irksome when people use 'virtual objects' for coded items they can acquire IG.

On another note, I think encumbrance works fine. Also, I think your three problems seem to contradict with your aforementioned statements.

Encumbrance over all seems good in the Arm video game, because it realistically limits the amount of armament/treasure that I can carry around,

1) Preventing me from carrying a change of clothes for my character, affecitng realism. 

2) Preventing me from carrying role-play aids around for my character, like riding gloves, wash towels, hair-combs etc.  Props are fun.

?

Forcing me to sell things to NPCs that I would rather sell to PCs (for the interaction) because the stuff is heavy and the PCs are not online when I need to dump it.

If you're making objects that you can not even carry, it's likely you should find somewhere to craft/store them safely in.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I only find it irksome when people use 'virtual objects' for coded items they can acquire IG.

Precisely.

[Only He Stands There]

I do when it's something that will actually effect the PC.

If they roleplay cleaning their fingernails with a splinter of wood, or jamming a shard of bone into each ear for ornamentation, or removing a piece of leather that, in their description, binds their braids, I don't care. It doesn't give the character a coded advantage or disadvantage, and yes, I'm well aware all those little items exist in-game.

The problem lies in the fact that something such as spice can be detrimental/beneficial and has coded effects upon your PC. Some spice helps you out in certain situations; some spice fucks you up when you come down. Maybe the local assassin is wanting you to come down off that spice and have a really shitty downer period so they can off you. Maybe Kurac laced the spice you're carrying with some additive that makes you unable to cast spells. You'd never know because you don't actually smoke it codedly.

So, in my eyes, virtual RP props that are common, easy to find, easy to make, not terribly valuable, and don't have any coded effects are nice. Anything that isn't at least three out of five of those is probably pushing it.