Social Rank of Indie Merchants

[Malken]

Because the entry level house merchant has the support of a Great Merchant House behind him/her, and you have pretty much zero chance of ever being richer or more influential than an entire house.

Unless you're me.

I'm ritch, biatch! *honk honk*

[Tisiphone]

Assuming we're talking about a GMH family member...

I said a GMH entry level employee, not a family member--of course an Indie could never be better than a family member or agent.

That's a lot more fluid; depending, frankly, on how well-liked the employee is, yet he still has the nominal protection of the House.

How would you like it if someone kicked your dog? Even a dog you didn't like?

[Salt Merchant]

What they're saying is true as a background re: "the world".

But real influence and power is highly dependent on the character. I can easily imagine an independent merchant having far more impact and more influence in terms of actual gameplay than a Senior Agent of some GMH, especially an indolent one.

[Gimfalisette]

Because the entry level house merchant has the support of a Great Merchant House behind him/her, and you have pretty much zero chance of ever being richer or more influential than an entire house.

Unless you're me.

I'm ritch, biatch! *honk honk*

A valid test of your proposition would be to see whether you can steal the silk trade from Kadius. (And by "silk trade," I mean of course access to and control of the sources of silk harvestables, method of manufacturing silk cloth, production of silk goods, and dominance of the silk market in both major cities.) If you can steal Kadius' silk trade, then I think it's fair to say you have the possibility of becoming richer and more influential than them.

[jcljules]

Because the entry level house merchant has the support of a Great Merchant House behind him/her, and you have pretty much zero chance of ever being richer or more influential than an entire house.

Unless you're me.

I'm ritch, biatch! *honk honk*

A valid test of your proposition would be to see whether you can steal the silk trade from Kadius. (And by "silk trade," I mean of course access to and control of the sources of silk harvestables, method of manufacturing silk cloth, production of silk goods, and dominance of the silk market in both major cities.) If you can steal Kadius' silk trade, then I think it's fair to say you have the possibility of becoming richer and more influential than them.

I accept your challenge!!!

Or not, but I think you misunderstand what I mean--I realize I could never be more powerful than an entire GMH... but I think its entirely plausible for my character to be the social better of a lowly employee. For example... if I own a little stationary store with three employees, I can never compare myself to Staples--but I'm probably the social better of the 18 year old employee who works at the register.

[Mood]

Because the entry level house merchant has the support of a Great Merchant House behind him/her, and you have pretty much zero chance of ever being richer or more influential than an entire house.

Unless you're me.

I'm ritch, biatch! *honk honk*

A valid test of your proposition would be to see whether you can steal the silk trade from Kadius. (And by "silk trade," I mean of course access to and control of the sources of silk harvestables, method of manufacturing silk cloth, production of silk goods, and dominance of the silk market in both major cities.) If you can steal Kadius' silk trade, then I think it's fair to say you have the possibility of becoming richer and more influential than them.

I accept your challenge!!!

Or not, but I think you misunderstand what I mean--I realize I could never be more powerful than an entire GMH... but I think its entirely plausible for my character to be the social better of a lowly employee. For example... if I own a little stationary store with three employees, I can never compare myself to Staples--but I'm probably the social better of the 18 year old employee who works at the register.

That was directed at Malken, I believe.

[Gimfalisette]

I can easily imagine an independent merchant having far more impact and more influence in terms of actual gameplay than a Senior Agent of some GMH, especially an indolent one.

I have seen indie merchants who knew the system well, played by the rules, and didn't set off anyone's "getting above him/herself" radar who were very successful and well-regarded. I haven't seen an indie -foreigner- merchant do this (foreigner especially meaning someone from the opposite city-state). Tribals who do this are kind of a special case, because they carry the weight of their family behind them just as GMHs do; you can bet that templars/nobles will want to have decent relationships with them to keep peace with the tribe and/or use the tribe for some purpose.

The truth is that ARM is a game of organizations, not just individuals.

[Gimfalisette]

I think you misunderstand what I mean--I realize I could never be more powerful than an entire GMH... but I think its entirely plausible for my character to be the social better of a lowly employee. For example... if I own a little stationary store with three employees, I can never compare myself to Staples--but I'm probably the social better of the 18 year old employee who works at the register.

Tisiphone already said this was possible, and since I agreed with her, I didn't say anything. If you have the right competency, the right connections, etc. then as an indie commoner it is possible to be socially more influential than an entry-level, non-family GMH employee. Marko explained it a long time ago, and I'll paraphrase--to all social status/ranking/influence stuff there are gradations. Your character might have +++, while a character at the next rank up might have ---, and thus you're in reality above them. Or vice versa.

[Gimfalisette]

Adding: It's also helpful to remember that we are not talking about our modern-day capitalistic, democratic society. We're talking about a society that is very rigidly structured, extremely hierarchical, brutally authoritarian, and gleefully monopolistic.

[Rahnevyn]

Social rankings are fluid and the tables give just a general picture. They aren't set in stone. I would think that an independent merchant would have a variable status based on wealth, connections, friends, bribes, and what goods they sell. At the low end they'd be no better than an average commoner. At the high end, the merchant at the front of a wealthy and successful operation might indeed rival even individual family members of a GMH. It's hard to say things definitively when we're talking so abtract.

[Dalmeth]

connections, friends, bribes, and what goods they sell.

Note : these are the most important factors, which is why outsiders tend to fail.  They don't make friends.

[psionic fungus]

The main thing I misunderstand is the fact that if my character, an indie merchant, pulls in like 4 times the sids of an entry level house merchant, and I also have more connections and customers, why is he my social better?

In this situation we can assume that your character is an accomplished artisan, if not a master artisan, yes?

In Tuluk, being an accomplished artisan is the equivalent of being a full Merchant.  Being a Master Artisan is the equivalent of being a Senior Merchant, and this is a social position well above that of an entry level merchant house employee, which holds a position of respect just a bit higher than the average hunter...

[Nyr]

Your social rank as an independent merchant will (likely) be directly proportional to how much a threat to Merchant House income your character is.

Take that any way you want.

[Mood]

The GMHs didn't become the monolithic powerhouses they are by allowing competitors to go unchecked.

[Maybe42or54]

Gives a chance for the GMH PC to put down/recruit any major PC indie-merchant.

Sounds fantastic.

[jcljules]

I'm still waiting to be attacked by the GMHs... I think I'll start provoking them!

"My products are cheaper than Salarrs! More beautiful than Kadian Silks! More addictive than Kuraci spice! And CHEAP Too!"

[Tisiphone]

I'm still waiting to be attacked by the GMHs... I think I'll start provoking them!

"My products are cheaper than Salarrs! More beautiful than Kadian Silks! More addictive than Kuraci spice! And CHEAP Too!"

Do it, you'll be my favouritest newbie.

[jcljules]

I'm still waiting to be attacked by the GMHs... I think I'll start provoking them!

"My products are cheaper than Salarrs! More beautiful than Kadian Silks! More addictive than Kuraci spice! And CHEAP Too!"

Do it, you'll be my favouritest newbie.

*whimpers* you... you... you mean I'm not already? 

And I have actually But I wouldn't want to give anything IC away, so no more details

[Spoon]

I know you're being careful and everything Jcljules about IC info, but just to highlight what I've learnt from your recent posts and threads:

I know what guild your PC is, what you make, how you go about doing it and that you've now started provoking a Merchant House in some manner. This has made it painfully obvious who your PC is.

I don't want this to seem like I'm bashing you for anything. You're a very enthusiastic player, which is cool and great for the game. Keep asking questions and making threads if you feel the need to. Just a friendly reminder that this information has been made available to the entire player base. And I've only skimmed through the odd thread you've made.

[jcljules]

I realize I've made my guild obvious, but I don't recall making any posts about what I make... And as for provoking merchant houses, I haven't really yet, so I think you might be mistaken in thinking I'm giving away my PC.

But I do realize I have been giving away some information, which is never a good thing--and I'll be more careful in the future. I don't, however, think I've given away who my PC is.

[Boggis]

I don't, however, think I've given away who my PC is.

To be honest I'd be pretty certain I know exactly who your PC is based off this and other threads and I don't even spend much time in that location. Not knocking you but I'd agree with what Spoon said.

[Nyr]

Yes--the more details you give, the easier it is to find out who your PC is.  Please be careful about giving away IC information.

[jcljules]

I didn't realize how easy it was to reveal who my character was--I'll be more careful now.