vNPCs

[jcljules]

I've read a lot in the board archives about using vNPCs to do things. What is 'too far' when it comes to vNPCs? Can I have an entire vNPC family? vNPC friends? Basically, when does it go to far.

And also, how do you handle RP with vNPCs code-wise?

[musashi]

I've read a lot in the board archives about using vNPCs to do things. What is 'too far' when it comes to vNPCs? Can I have an entire vNPC family? vNPC friends? Basically, when does it go to far.

I would say when you have these vNPCs affect other players, or in some way attempt to use them to the advantage of your PC in a situation, you've gone too far.

And also, how do you handle RP with vNPCs code-wise?

Emote! 

[Elgiva]

You can have vNPC family, friends, enemies or whatever you like. Well, as long as it is reasonable. Claiming that this vNPC templar is the best friend of your rinthi-rat char would not be okay, but as long as you use common sense for your vNPCs, it's alright. Most of my characters have some important vNPCs around. For example my Sergeant-PC had some vNPC Recruits I used to play with regulary (mostly in various trainings) because I was playing in dead off-peaks and this kept me from being bored.

Code-wise - your only way is emote. Sometime it could grow a little awkward (for example - IMHO is not 'okay' to make vNPCs talk out loud, because if you make them speak in emotes, it goes around the language code. I am not sure if it's offically "okay" or not though).

[jcljules]

What about a vNPC travelling companion who accompanies you during desert travel alone? And to make sure it wasn't twinkish, he would run away at the first sign of danger.

[Elgiva]

I would not really do that. Simply because it could change some things - for example: raiders might decide to leave you alone if they see you are travelling in two (if they have a chance to notice there is some virtual company with you - that itself might be a problem) or they might want to chase down the company if he runs - which is kind of impossible if it's vNPC.

[musashi]

I would not really do that. Simply because it could change some things - for example: raiders might decide to leave you alone if they see you are travelling in two (if they have a chance to notice there is some virtual company with you - that itself might be a problem) or they might want to chase down the company if he runs - which is kind of impossible if it's vNPC.

It's also impossible for them to kill/loot him, which they'll likely want to do as well.

[Agent_137]

well, i wouldn't say it's "too far," but i'd say it's damn close to the line.

Maybe they raiders would just take care of you first and run him down virtually when they next quit out. then they'd kill him, split the loot, and spend it on spice in luirs, all before logging in again.

Or, they just decide to focus on you, which they would, since they're PCs, and your vnpc gets away. The real question that would be hard to answer would be "Does he make it back alive?"

vNPCs are good for temporary, throw away type interactions. For long term relationships with vNPCs, it's best if you don't need to interact with them frequently, to avoid these types of questions.

[NoteworthyFellow]

As far as a vNPC traveling companion, I don't think I'd go that far.  Now, a vNPC family and vNPC friends?  I would encourage that--there are too many orphans running around, I think.  Obviously, keep it within reason for your character's background, but having a vNPC family is great.

[musashi]

well, i wouldn't say it's "too far," but i'd say it's damn close to the line.

Maybe they raiders would just take care of you first and run him down virtually when they next quit out. then they'd kill him, split the loot, and spend it on spice in luirs, all before logging in again.

Or, they just decide to focus on you, which they would, since they're PCs, and your vnpc gets away. The real question that would be hard to answer would be "Does he make it back alive?"

vNPCs are good for temporary, throw away type interactions. For long term relationships with vNPCs, it's best if you don't need to interact with them frequently, to avoid these types of questions.

Very well put!

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

I once had a character who had a vnpc wife and kids. He joined the Tuluki Legion to participate in the Copper War without consulting his life-mate. As soon as he was walking away from the templar who enlisted him, she stormed into the tavern and gave him a smack. Everybody in the Sanctuary reacted... I think I remember seeing a soldier reach for his weapon or something. It was absolutely hilarious. I wonder how many people I fooled... how many people typed in 'look frumpy' before they realized it was a vnpc.

[Rhyden]

The only reason there are VNPCs is because our own PCs can't fill the entire population of the world. So if you're not a PC nor an NPC, you're a VNPC. Though the VNPC's population greatly outweighs the PC and NPC's, we hardly ever see them except for in room echoes and emotes. So even if they can be found almost everywhere, it's more difficult (and less fun, imo) to interact with VNPCs than it is PCs. This is because we don't know exactly how VNPCs would react to our PCs actions and why role-playing with them is tricky business and should be done while keeping the VNPCs totally neutral. VNPCs shouldn't be used to anyone's advantage nor should they be used where PCs can be.

What about a vNPC travelling companion who accompanies you during desert travel alone? And to make sure it wasn't twinkish, he would run away at the first sign of danger.

To answer one of your first questions, this would be going too far. Like I said, it's best to only use VNPCs in populated areas and if you were to travel, you'd be better off taking a PC. PCs have minds of their own and free will while VNPCs are more like hand puppets that help build atmosphere and fill in the population gaps quite nicely.

[Agent_137]

I disagree, Rhyden. VNPCs should not be neutral, that's boring and makes animating them far less interesting. They should act always as a typical zalanthan. If you're templar, they should bow and step away. If you're a gemmer they should be uncomfortable, leave, or spit from the safety of a crowd.

They should also be used where PCs can be but are not. For instance, a Tavern. You can have a chat with a VNPC at the bar. That's great. But they shouldn't be used in -place- of a PC. Don't chat with a vnpc person at the bar when there's a PC there. Think of a different way to interact with that PC instead of spending brainpower on the vnpc. (maybe start with the vnpc as a build up to some sort of interaction with the pc.)

Also, VNPCs can be in sparsley populated areas just fine, as long as it's reasonable and logical and -typical-. For instance, it would be perfectly fantastic if you RPed getting raided by VNPCs  on the north and junked some equipment to satisfy them.

Or maybe you have a traveling companion (pc) and as you crest the ridge, you see some dust in the distance. You two scurry off the road as a byn troop rolls by on mounts, and you two snicker quietly as a scrawny halfbreed flanked by two scarred dwarves drags along behind, flailing widly to get his mount moving.

[bracken]

And also, how do you handle RP with vNPCs code-wise?

Emote!

Just hang on to your socks when they emote back at you!

[Rhyden]

That's what I meant by neutral, Agent.

They should react accordingly to what's realistic and not show any favoritism.

I think we're agreeing on the same things, I just worded it differently.

[Agent_137]

darn i was hopin' for a internet fight.

[Mood]

Referee's the only neutral in a prize fight, Merrick, and you ain't one of them.

[Tisiphone]

darn i was hopin' for a internet fight.

You're a sissy.

EMACS sucks.

Linux is the only worthwhile OS for anything.

PCs are better than Macs.

More people should be shot in the head at birth.



Pick any one of those!

[Agent_137]

darn i was hopin' for a internet fight.

You're a sissy.

EMACS sucks.

Linux is the only worthwhile OS for anything.

PCs are better than Macs.

More people should be shot in the head at birth.



Pick any one of those!

but i agree with all of those.

[Tisiphone]

darn i was hopin' for a internet fight.

You're a sissy.

EMACS sucks.

Linux is the only worthwhile OS for anything.

PCs are better than Macs.

More people should be shot in the head at birth.



Pick any one of those!

but i agree with all of those.

Well then:

The only proper way to eat is vegan.

[Yam]

What about engineering meat that does not require the slaughter of livestock or tigers?

[Tisiphone]

What about engineering meat that does not require the slaughter of livestock or tigers?

That's inhumane to the cows, because you take away their only purpose in living.

We already have severe labour problems in this country; DO YOU WANT TO TAKE THE JOBS AWAY FROM THE COWS?!

[jcljules]

Help me! My thread has been derailed!

[Tisiphone]

Help me! My thread has been derailed!

Yeah, sorry about that. Use vNPCs for whatever you like, just don't disadvantage other players by doing so.

[Yam]

Help me! My thread has been derailed!

To be fair, you do make a lot of threads.

Sometimes they must be hijacked for other purposes.

You can have it back now.

[Archbaron]

Think of vNPCs as an outlet for undirected emotes where a preset response is probably guessable and not far-fetched. Don't use them to affect other people, and you'll be fine.

[jcljules]

Help me! My thread has been derailed!

To be fair, you do make a lot of threads.

Yeah I guess I do. But I've been making less and less every day as I get the hang of things

[Archbaron]

Help me! My thread has been derailed!

To be fair, you do make a lot of threads.

Yeah I guess I do. But I've been making less and less every day as I get the hang of things

Still, your post count is a little bloated for a newbie.

[Malken]

Help me! My thread has been derailed!

To be fair, you do make a lot of threads.

Yeah I guess I do. But I've been making less and less every day as I get the hang of things

Still, your post count is a little bloated for a newbie.

I prefer a newbie who asks a lot of question on the GDB and sticks with the game than a confused, silent one who quits after a day.

[Mood]

Help me! My thread has been derailed!

To be fair, you do make a lot of threads.

Yeah I guess I do. But I've been making less and less every day as I get the hang of things

Still, your post count is a little bloated for a newbie.

He only has a slightly higher post per day count than I do, and that's mostly because I lurked a lot as a newbie. Are you saying I post too much? 

[jcljules]

Help me! My thread has been derailed!

To be fair, you do make a lot of threads.

Yeah I guess I do. But I've been making less and less every day as I get the hang of things

Still, your post count is a little bloated for a newbie.

Ooohhh..... I'm askin too many questions--the templarate is going to come get me

But seriously, I -will- post less, but I don't see how I'm disturbing anything... and you don't have to pay attention to my threads.

[Gimfalisette]

You're not making frivolous questions. It's fine to post valid questions, which you are doing. Ignore naysayers.

[jcljules]

You're not making frivolous questions. It's fine to post valid questions, which you are doing. Ignore naysayers.

Will do, and thanks for the support. And I -do- search before I ask any questions, to make sure there isn't already an answer.

[Tisiphone]

You're not making frivolous questions. It's fine to post valid questions, which you are doing. Ignore naysayers.

Will do, and thanks for the support. And I -do- search before I ask any questions, to make sure there isn't already an answer.

We hate you and want you to die.

But only because this is Armageddon and this is what you DO on Zalanthas. Nothing personal.

[jcljules]

You're not making frivolous questions. It's fine to post valid questions, which you are doing. Ignore naysayers.

Will do, and thanks for the support. And I -do- search before I ask any questions, to make sure there isn't already an answer.

We hate you and want you to die.

But only because this is Armageddon and this is what you DO on Zalanthas. Nothing personal.

I am laughing sooo hard at that 

[Archbaron]

I didn't mean it offensively, just pointing out the blatantly obvious. You just seem rather curious about open-ended matters, in my mind.

[Rahnevyn]

There is nothing wrong with posting a lot, no matter if you're a new player, an old player, or don't even play. As long as your posts are ON TOPIC and NOT FLAMES, post to your heart's content.

[jcljules]

I didn't mean it offensively, just pointing out the blatantly obvious. You just seem rather curious about open-ended matters, in my mind.

Don't worry--I'm not offended.

[Agent_137]

most people use VNPCs to liven up the world far too little.

use them more.

[Barzalene]

Ooohhh..... I'm askin too many questions--the templarate is going to come get me

But seriously, I -will- post less, but I don't see how I'm disturbing anything... and you don't have to pay attention to my threads.

Don't ask fewer questions and make all the threads you like. Seriously. I'm enjoying your threads, your questions are intelligent and you're learning about the world. And no trees were harmed. What's the downside?

[NoteworthyFellow]

most people use VNPCs to liven up the world far to little.

use them more.

Agreed.  VNPCs rock.

[FantasyWriter]

What about a vNPC travelling companion who accompanies you during desert travel alone? And to make sure it wasn't twinkish, he would run away at the first sign of danger.

Played a ranger once who was didn't like contact with other sentients at all. Saw Cast Away with Tom Hanks on AMC one night and got an idea.  Found a rounded chink of alibaster, and drew a face on him. Wished up for the desciption to be changed, but it never happened. Any way, i used the chunk of alibaster as my traveling companion.  Come to think of it, he was never much help in fights either, lol.

[jcljules]

I know that someone mentioned in another thread I created that it would be hard to create a raider character because of the difficulty in training and becoming capable enough to 'raid' before first joining a -legit- organization.

How would the staff and players feel about sparring with vNPCs as a raider character?

[Zoltan]

I say no to sparring with vNPCs unless it's purely for RP, and no coded benefit. Kind of like sparring with vNPC clan mates when no one's on or around during sparring time.

If I were doing a raider, I'd do my best to RP the scene out, look scary and just go for it. Just be ready to type flee a lot.

[jcljules]

Hmm... so you don't have to be skilled, just scary. As for the vNPC sparring--I thought the staff allowed that if there were extenuating circumstances; like not being on at peak times, or not having a clan?

[Zoltan]

Maybe they do, maybe they don't. Personally, I wouldn't bother with it. I'd either find an excuse to join the Byn, or I'd practice by doing. Sure, if you don't got the skillz, you can die. Just set up a cool trap or something and be ready to flee if things go bad.

You know, if you set it up right, and you happen upon a player who'll RP before fleeing or killing, you may be able to play the scene out without any coded action.

[Gimfalisette]

Playing an indie raider by choice is not exactly the same situation as playing in a clan where you cannot spar with anyone but clan mates, and yet none are on; or playing off-peak, and no one's on. So, no, I don't think sparring with VNPCs rather than PCs in the situation you're describing is really so OK...since you could go find PCs to spar with instead.

[jcljules]

Yeah, you' re probably right. It would probably be best to app characters with someone else in that instance, right?

[ale six]

Or just make friends.

[jcljules]

Thats another option, but something tells me it wouldn't work out well to walk into Allanak and ask Average Amos to leave the city, live out in the wastes and kill people for 'sids.

[Gimfalisette]

No, it'll probably take a little bit more getting to know people than that, but really...why not? ARM isn't meant to be played solo. You're meant to meet other characters and create plot stuff to involve them in.

[ale six]

And OOCly organised raider groups are REALLY REALLY TURBO LAME

[jcljules]

No, it'll probably take a little bit more getting to know people than that, but really...why not? ARM isn't meant to be played solo. You're meant to meet other characters and create plot stuff to involve them in.

Of course not--all of my characters so far have been very social, but I've just never run across any characters in cities who I think could be convinced to go out into the sands and raid is all.

[Marauder Moe]

No, it'll probably take a little bit more getting to know people than that, but really...why not? ARM isn't meant to be played solo. You're meant to meet other characters and create plot stuff to involve them in.

Of course not--all of my characters so far have been very social, but I've just never run across any characters in cities who I think could be convinced to go out into the sands and raid is all.

It takes a long time to build that level of trust.  IC years, perhaps.

It's not like one day you ask your best drinking buddy to come raiding with you.  It has to progress naturally.  First you're just casual acquaintances, then drinking buddies, then maybe you help each other out finding work or materials, then maybe you go out grebbing together, then (assuming you didn't try to kill each other the first time) hunting, then killing gith, then killing elves, then before you know it you're off robbing/killing (killing is optional, though) random other grebbers with your long-time friend and partner.