Being attacked while unconscious

[Spoon]

Not sure if this has come up before, but I think that it could solve a number of problems that keep being raised on the GDB.

If an unconscious person is attacked, shouldn't they have a chance of waking up?

This would solve the problem with bludgeoning weapons having stun damage bonuses, and still leave them highly effective in combat.

I just really don't like how when you're unconscious you PC is entirely helpless against attack. You should be highly vulnerable, sure, and you will be (having dropped your weapons if you're fighting, and the fact you're lying down) even if you have a chance of waking up.

I just think that this would only aid RP and realism, and not take anything away from bludgeoning weapons or the sap skill. I'm not sure what chance to wake up would be good or realistic so this is all up for discussion.

[manonfire]

Getting knocked unconcious from too many blows to the head is akin to being knocked out during major surgery.

You aren't going to wake up.

[Maybe42or54]

At least not for a while.

They aren't just sleeping when they get knocked unconcious. They just got knocked unconcious by someone using an object to knock them out.

[Yam]

If you're asleep and you're attacked, you wake up.


You really shouldn't wake up if you're unconscious and attacked. That's... rather unrealistic.

[Maso]

I think it would depend on how you became unconscious. Personally I would like to see unconsciousness due to overuse of the Way be less severe and more akin to fainting than being hit over the head with a baseball bat. I'd also like to see people who fell unconscious due to the Way wake up when attacked. And also...15 minutes is overkill.

C'mon!

[Dakkon Black]

Yeah.... if you faint. I don't care how lightly you fainted. My double headed war axe is going to F you up.

[Conspiracy Theory]

I love things that leave people vulnerable. It's part of what makes Armageddon awesome: the possibility and the permanency of death.

You screw up and get yourself robbed or killed because you suck at the Way? Tough beans, baby. The very last thing I'd want to see of Armageddon is it getting softer.

I'd love to see people not be able to voluntarily wake up from sleep until after a certain period of time had passed. In fact, I think it would be mind-blowingly awesome if you'd involuntarily fall doze off when "resting" at low stamina in the right conditions (indoors, or in a shady, comfortable area).

[musashi]

I love things that leave people vulnerable. It's part of what makes Armageddon awesome: the possibility and the permanency of death.

You screw up and get yourself robbed or killed because you suck at the Way? Tough beans, baby. The very last thing I'd want to see of Armageddon is it getting softer.

I'd love to see people not be able to voluntarily wake up from sleep until after a certain period of time had passed. In fact, I think it would be mind-blowingly awesome if you'd involuntarily fall doze off when "resting" at low stamina in the right conditions (indoors, or in a shady, comfortable area).

I think the code already covers this in a different way.

If your characters's health/stun/stamina is low enough, just resting won't do it for you, you HAVE to sleep and your character may not wake up until the game is good and ready for you to.

I would not like to see the game decide that your character wants to sleep even though you didn't type the syntax. I feel like if anything ... it would just make RP while resting a pain in the ass.

[Rahnevyn]

The tall, muscular man crumples to the ground.

"Aw shit, Amos knocked 'imself out again. Musta been havin Way-sex with 'is mother."

"Anybody got salts?"

"Not me." "Nope." "Me neither."

"Well, alright, 'en..."

The muscular, tall man draws a double-bladed obsidian axe.

The muscular, tall man says, in sirihish:
     "Ey! Amos! Wake up!"

The muscular, tall man chops the tall, muscular man on his head, doing frightening damage.

[RogueGunslinger]

Hahaha.

[fourTwenty]

I love things that leave people vulnerable. It's part of what makes Armageddon awesome: the possibility and the permanency of death.

You screw up and get yourself robbed or killed because you suck at the Way? Tough beans, baby. The very last thing I'd want to see of Armageddon is it getting softer.

I'd love to see people not be able to voluntarily wake up from sleep until after a certain period of time had passed. In fact, I think it would be mind-blowingly awesome if you'd involuntarily fall doze off when "resting" at low stamina in the right conditions (indoors, or in a shady, comfortable area).[/quote

I like it. make it so you can wake up as soon as you notice and it should lead to some good times. Yay good times.

[Sephiroto]

I don't like how this game calculates damage period.  Especially when someone is subdued or asleep.  A sleeping/unconscious/stunned person -still- has a chance to dodge!  The code simply can't (as of yet) take into account all situations.  If you're asleep and I've got a sharp weapon can't I cut your throat?  What about if you're subdued?  Has anyone seen Braveheart?  Chainmail won't save you.

If someone attacks you while you're asleep they they really want to kill you and, odds are, they'd be giving it their best shot.  If you try to strangle someone, yeah, they might wake up.  Now Arm isn't like the real world.

In the past, maybe four or five years ago, I played a half-elf warrior.  This half-elf had crappy strength and used hatchets.  This half-elf in question tried to murder someone in their sleep, yet he was so weak that his target woke up and kicked his ass.  How's that for you?

As far as things go in the real world, if you smash/stab/slash/chop someone with an honest weapon while they're asleep, odds are they won't have the chance or the ability to wake up thereafter.  Dig?

[musashi]

But I think on the flip side ... the code also doesn't take into account that the person could wake up when you're sneaking up on them, so it fall a bit short on both ends.

[psionic fungus]

You know what would fix that?

Approach code.  That's right!  If you were sleeping and someone had to approach your character before attacking them, that would be a good opportunity to make a check to see if your character was woken.  Can't do that without approach code.  Shucks!

You could always "lightly" (adverbial commands are going to be cool) sleep, or have observation or other skills that give characters a chance to wake up when someone enters the room, approaches them, etc.

But yeah, approach code.  It's the shit.   

[Nyr]

(1) People can enter a large outdoor 'room' and immediately hit/kick/bash/subdue you.
(2) You can fairly easily flee from an attacker, run N;E;N;E;N;E, and be away free...leading people to enter a large outdoor room and immediately bash you out of frustration.

There are other, simpler ways to do this, like changes in delays (have movement delay be before and after movement, add a wait before you can issue combat commands when entering a room, etc.)  Here it'd be about who is quicker (has less delay) rather than who types the command first.

(3) It's dang hard to credibly threaten someone without a bunch of buddies at your back.  You can emote stepping up to someone with a drawn sword, but they can effortlessly evade you until you apply a trained-up subdue, or your mates guard all the exits.  [Moments of hilarious anecdote once occurred whilst I chased someone futilely around the Borsail barracks, wondering why I wasn't typing 'kill $intruder.']

Again, I think there are other, simpler ways to do this.  A threaten command that does attack-them-if-they-try-to-do-anything would be a good example of an approach I'd prefer.

I'm not saying we're doing these specific things, but they are probably more viable options in Arm2.  I'm not working on the combat system so I don't have more to add, but I hope this gives you an idea of my way of thinking

Think Raesanos mentioned that there would be easier ways to do things than that method.  Eventually I think a combat system Arm 2 staffer will post some details when we get to that point.  I like the idea of an approach code too but I think that Rae's post makes a good point.

[hyzhenhok]

You know what would fix that?

Approach code.  That's right!  If you were sleeping and someone had to approach your character before attacking them, that would be a good opportunity to make a check to see if your character was woken.  Can't do that without approach code.  Shucks!

You could always "lightly" (adverbial commands are going to be cool) sleep, or have observation or other skills that give characters a chance to wake up when someone enters the room, approaches them, etc.

But yeah, approach code.  It's the shit.   

I'm pretty sure in most cases while you're asleep, you're still told that someone has entered the room. If you're rested enough to wake up, then you can wake up and everything is fine.

If you're not rested enough, well tough cookies.  You should have found somewhere safer.

[psionic fungus]

Think Raesanos mentioned that there would be easier ways to do things than that method.

Well, actually, I was mentioning a separate, but equally cool, function that "approach" code would have.  The fact that "approaching" people could wake them up was not previously mentioned.  There is no way to have people wake up when someone is getting into striking range if there is no coded way to know when they have approached.  You can make it possible for them to wake up -before- getting hit the first time, but it's only going to give them a slight benefit.  Being able to awaken when you are approached means you can get some rest while still keeping wary of attacks and thievery attempts.  It means you can have time to react realistically when someone is rapidly invading your character's personal space. It means... It means more awesome.  I like more awesome.


Sorry to beat on a dead horse, but I just want the coding staff to see the plethora of benefits they are missing out on by not incorporating some type of approach/positioning system in the new game.  It would enhance the detail of the game greatly, allow for more interaction with the world and other characters, and provide for dozens of new features and strategies...

What's not to love?

[Tisiphone]

What's not to love?

Probably your presentation, as it makes you appear to think you're God's Gift to MUDs. However, there's also the issue of spatial coding, which seems like it might get hairy in situations with large groups of people - taverns, battles, etc. I wouldn't know for sure, though, you'd have to ask Morgenes or Raesanos.

[Agent_137]

i've seen it done well in my previous mud, it's possible, probably not easy, but still very possible. i'll be sorely disspointed if there are no improvements to combat in the vein of positioning.

here's the details of how it was done on my previous mud: http://www.play.net/dr/info/combat.asp#engagement
(if you continue reading you'll find it was a very complicated combat system. too complicated for my tastes, but then our current setup is far too simplistic for my tastes.)

Of course, I don't think it was even possible to codedly sleep in that mud, in many ways it was far more arcade-like than arma.

[psionic fungus]

Probably your presentation, as it makes you appear to think you're God's Gift to MUDs.

Oh, but you see, I am. 

However, there's also the issue of spatial coding, which seems like it might get hairy in situations with large groups of people - taverns, battles, etc. I wouldn't know for sure, though, you'd have to ask Morgenes or Raesanos.

I did ask, actually... No real response other than, a clunky (IMO) "threaten" command that covers one minor aspect of "approach" code.

Spatial issues seem pretty simple. Off the top of my head: Rooms have a size.  There are nine locations in each room(NE N NW E C W SE S SW), which can have 1-5 characters (or the equivalent "size" in objects) in them depending on the room size.  If there are too many characters or objects (some objects can themselves have characters at them, of course) then you would get a message "It's too crowded to move there".

Let me know if there is anything else you need clarified or explained in minute detail. 


By the way, have you ever thought about working on your presentation?

[Tisiphone]

Spatial issues seem pretty simple.

That's the problem, though. ALL code seems pretty simple, until you start doing it.

[psionic fungus]

I realize that programming is tedious.

However, the code I am proposing is no more complex than many other aspects of the code that are being planned, or currently functioning.

What do you think about coding the adverbial commands and grammar parsing?

I don't want to fucking touch it... But it's going to be there.

I'm pretty sure when a programmer as terrible as myself can see a fairly simple way to accomplish such a system than the wonderful programmers on the Staff could do at least as well.