Search shows a million topics, so a new one: Hide/Sneak

[evil_erdlu]

As I mentioned in the topic, I tried 'search'ing first, but rather than being informed, I got more and more confused. So I'm starting a new thread - shoot me.

My character can sneak. My character can hide. I want to make sure I know when my hide breaks because of a coded reason. Getting slashed by three half-giants or moving past unscratched depends on my success, so I'm forced to know these. And PLEASE, I don't want the response 'Find Out IC'. It's ridiculous. I'm not going to 'hide', then type 'eq', then ask 'OOC Am I hiding now? Now? Now?'.

Here are my questions.

- Some people claim 'eq' or 'i' breaks hide. Really? A code glitch? I'm one of the trigger-happy types who type 'score;stat;skills;eq;i' once in three minutes so I'd like to know if these commands really do break hide. Does 'eq', 'i', 'score', 'stat' or 'skills' break hide?

- The helpfiles claim 'The skills of sneaking and hiding are often used in conjuction.' How? Do I hide, then sneak north and remain hidden? Or do I hide, sneak northwards and become visible at the northern room then hide again?

- Is there an easy way to break hide? Like, say, you were shadowing someone for some time to see if they're doing something nasty. You decide they did not and now you want to approach. Is there a coded way like 'emote pushes away from the wall towards ~mantis;visible;tell mantis Hiya!'?

Thanks in advance for all the responses.

[musashi]

- Is there an easy way to break hide? Like, say, you were shadowing someone for some time to see if they're doing something nasty. You decide they did not and now you want to approach. Is there a coded way like 'emote pushes away from the wall towards ~mantis;visible;tell mantis Hiya!'?

Though my experience is admitibly limited, I believe that the "SEmote" will allow you to pose while hidden or invisible and and only you or people who can already see your character anyway will be able to notice it. The other stipulation is that these types of emotes do not create any sound so you know ... you can't "semote rattles pots and pans while setting off fireworks and making monkey noises."

I think if you /want/ to break your hide status you could just use a normal emote and it would be done. Also, you can edit your prompt (see help prompt) so that your invisibility status shows up in your return prompt. I think should let you know if you're still hidden or not.

As for the rest I have no idea, sorry, I'm sure somebody else can help you out ... the Helpers are REALLY good for syntax related stuff 

[Armaddict]

I believe it has been stated in the past that the staff does not want particular intricacies of the code such as this explained on the board.

I could be wrong, but either way, I'd suggest emailing the mud account instead.

[musashi]

I believe it has been stated in the past that the staff does not want particular intricacies of the code such as this explained on the board.

I could be wrong, but either way, I'd suggest emailing the mud account instead.

I think it's ok to just ask about syntax related stuff though ... all be it, probably better to just PM a helper instead. Still, sometimes I think players here can take the secrecy of the code's intricacies a bit too far and you end up with:

"How do I eat?"
"Find out IC n00b."

[evil_erdlu]

I'm nearly sure 'emote' does not break it. It lets you make voices some actions would make and I'm glad it does, it allows we do stuff such as..

Assuming you hid behind the NPC south of him in a [NS] room.

Code Select Expand

>semote kneels and grabs a small pebble
*Bla* kneels and grabs a small pebble.
>hemote hurls his arm forward rising from behind the garbage for a moment, sending the pebble far away.
*Bla* hurls his arm forward rising from behind the garbage for a moment, sending the pebble far away.
>emote A faint rattling is heard from northern part of the alley as if me shifted the stones on the floor.
A faint rattling is heard from northern part of the alley as if *bla* shifted the stones on the floor.
>semote lunges forward as soon as ~*victim NPC* turns northwards.
*Bla* lunges forward as soon as ~*victim NPC* turns northwards.
>backstab *victim NPC*


In this example the victim sees only the 'emote', with the echo 'A faint rattling is heard from northern part of the alley as if someone shifted the stones on the floor.' and I'm nearly sure of it. I should derail with a quick kudos, this semote/hemote/emote trio idea is great. This way RPing with NPCs is not that dull.

I believe it has been stated in the past that the staff does not want particular intricacies of the code such as this explained on the board.

I could be wrong, but either way, I'd suggest emailing the mud account instead.

I will do so and email to the MUD@armageddon.org. But I should voice my opinion saying this is outright ridiculous. If a command like 'eq' breaks my hidden status with no explanation and I'm not supposed to know it before I accidentally find out IC, I'm wondering what else oldbies know and use advantage of and I don't. Such a behaviour - avoiding giving even innocent tips about code - leads newbie players like I am only to beg for hints from older players, that is; through OOC communication not policed by staff.

[Armaddict]

As I said, I could be completely wrong.  I've had instances in the past where I recall something like this being said, but it ended up being said about something completely different.  Hence why I said go ahead and send an email, because then you can be sure, since I am -not- sure.  -I- just don't want to mess with it, heh.

[Lizzie]

An easy way to break hide:

type STAND.

Not sure about the rest.

[evil_erdlu]

Uh.. forgive me if I sounded harsh or rude. Maybe it was because I'm wasting my time haggling with a customer about such a low amount, only about 500 USD or so for his new program. I _hate_ customer relations. My intention was not to sound harsh or rude, I just wanted to point out that if such a rule exists, it should not because it encourages cheating in my opinion.

I hate flaming and such behaviour in forums, so please forgive me if you're offended by my wording, my intention was clearly not that - just I'm a non-native English speaker.

[Maso]

Yeah. I am so not into the 'Find out IC' response for completely OOC subjects.

psi mate Could you come round so I can check if I can hide while searching in my pockets and looking down at myself?

Though to answer your question, I've never played a sneak so I don't know. Though I do believe the hiding and staying hidden requires re-entering the hide command in every room.

[Shoka Windrunner]

The code, in cases where it is a common skill that anyone can have based on their guild...should just be explained.  If there are weird things like typing stand breaks hide, then yeah that should be told. 

Being told to Find Out IC about something that is a syntax issue like that, is, simply ridiculous.

And that stuff drives me nuts.

If it's about something that is secrit due to only a few characters able to do it...then no, email the mud account.

I don't want to know that if a defiler picks his nose in a sandstorm and then types flee booger he summons a booger demon from the Nasal Caverns of Snot.  But as far as sneak, hide, ride, forage, craft, melee skills, ranged combat skills, kick, parry, shield use, dual wield, two handed weapons, sirihish, allundean, mirrukim, backstab, theiving skills, climb...so on and so forth.  These aren't things that need to be find out IC.  Because in most cases you didn't just one day decide to learn how to sneak and hide.  You learned the basics already.  Now you are taking your character over after having learned said basics.  So yes.  Player and character should both know that in Zalanthas, don't sit behind the dumpster, stand behind it, cause when you stand up, whether you are careful or not, you will be seen.

[path]

Yeah, I'm not sure it's a find out IC situation. Emailing the staff is probably your best bet, at least for your first question.

[mansa]

- Some people claim 'eq' or 'i' breaks hide. Really? A code glitch? I'm one of the trigger-happy types who type 'score;stat;skills;eq;i' once in three minutes so I'd like to know if these commands really do break hide. Does 'eq', 'i', 'score', 'stat' or 'skills' break hide?

Yes.  Certain commands like that -do- break hide.  The biggest one is 'EQUIPMENT'.

The idea is this:   How do you know what you're wearing?  Do you look at yourself, or do you pat yourself down and check?

LOOK SELF does not break the hide status, because you can glance at yourself and not seem out of context with whatever situation you're in.

EQUIPMENT is more of patting yourself down to check what you're wearing, which requires physical movement on your half, which is my justification for breaking hide.  Fxed by Morgenes next patch

As for the other commands, like INV, SCORE, STAT, and SKILLS; I'm not quite sure.  I'd have to check my notes that I've accumulated over the years playing pickpockets, assassins, and burglars.

Personally, I believe that any command that would remove your character from hide, whether they are actually in a hidden state or not, should be echoed to the player.  When I want to be removed from being hidden, I want it to happen when I type the command.

There's more about that here: http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,26103.0.html

- The helpfiles claim 'The skills of sneaking and hiding are often used in conjuction.' How? Do I hide, then sneak north and remain hidden? Or do I hide, sneak northwards and become visible at the northern room then hide again?

This isn't 100% true anymore.  Back in the day, you used to type hide and become invisible in a room.  You would change your walking speed to sneaking, and then go north.  Nobody would see you leave, however, you would become visible in the next room again, so you would type 'hide'.

It is now possible to remain hidden and still move, based on your stealth abilities. However, as a trade-off, shadowing someone is no longer automatic but instead goes through the same kinds of checks.

Morgenes changed the code May 10th, 2006, making it possible to remain hidden and sneak around.

However, before, if you were HIDDEN and typed 'SHADOW <TARGET>', you could technically follow them forever and remain hidden, waiting for the perfect moment, after shadowing for 4 hours, when they walk into the templar's quarters, releave their guards, walk into their templar's apartment, and then go into their bedroom, and just about to type 'quit'.   POOR GARRICK.

Now, you cannot do that because eventually you will lose your HIDDEN status.

- Is there an easy way to break hide? Like, say, you were shadowing someone for some time to see if they're doing something nasty. You decide they did not and now you want to approach. Is there a coded way like 'emote pushes away from the wall towards ~mantis;visible;tell mantis Hiya!'?

I suggest "STAND", which also resets your long description.

Typing "VIS" also makes you visible, but it will give you the echo, "You were not invisible!" - Meaning for the breaking of the Invisibility Spell

[Shoka Windrunner]

Mansa Posted this in another thread.

Please,

In the major cities, on the major roads, there are many hundreds of people per room.

In Allanak:
Caravan Road has a thousand people walking up and down it, every moment.
Tradesman Street has seven hundred people walking up and down it, every moment.
Meleth's Circle has a thousand people walking around it, every moment.
The Bazaar has two thousand people walking around it, every moment.


To continue this, all the 'streets' named in Help Map Allanak have many hundreds of people in them, PER ROOM.

Caravan Way/Meleth's Circle
Commoner's Way/Stonecarver's Road
Templar's Way/Tradesman's Road
Warrior's Way
The Road of Slaves
Tradesman's Road
Arena Road
Miner's Way



Don't try and 'block' the street by guarding it.  That's retarded.  You're now preventing hundreds of people from passing by, and I'm sure they would try and do anything they can to get you out of the way.  You're disrupting people from buying and selling, evenmoreso in the Bazaar.  You could cause a Riot!

Remember, there's always someone else in the room where you are.  Always.

Okay he's right.  So there are like thousands of people.  And I always thought that part of sneak and hide is just going unnoticed in a crowd.  Of thousands.  Which shouldn't be to horrible hard sometimes.  So why would standing reveal you suddenly to all eyes?  I'd think sitting in the middle of the road would be worse.  Or hunched over darting and slipping through the crowd and around people would.  walking all normal and whistling with hands in your pockets would be better.

So some of that is weird.  But it's good to know little idiosyncracies like that.

[Gimfalisette]

Other than what mansa posted about idiosyncracies in the code, the best way to figure this stuff out is to make a friend and practice. It's fun, it's IC, and not too difficult. As a sneaky type, you will have far more fun if you make some friends you can trust with your secrets and test stuff on; they may be sneaky types, or they may not be sneaky types.

I used to practice with mansa. That was fun.

[Yam]

No. It really, really isn't fun to find out what non-echoing commands break hide.

It's completely dumb and very jarring.

[cyberpatrol_735]

Also, you can edit your prompt (see help prompt) so that your invisibility status shows up in your return prompt. I think should let you know if you're still hidden or not.

FYI, this is incorrect. Invisibility status != Hide Status.


This only shows if you affected by a certain spell, as you would not know if you were successfully hidden or not, which has been discussed many times before.

[musashi]

Also, you can edit your prompt (see help prompt) so that your invisibility status shows up in your return prompt. I think should let you know if you're still hidden or not.

FYI, this is incorrect. Invisibility status != Hide Status.


This only shows if you affected by a certain spell, as you would not know if you were successfully hidden or not, which has been discussed many times before.

Thanks for clearing that up for me!

[mansa]

Other than what mansa posted about idiosyncracies in the code, the best way to figure this stuff out is to make a friend and practice. It's fun, it's IC, and not too difficult. As a sneaky type, you will have far more fun if you make some friends you can trust with your secrets and test stuff on; they may be sneaky types, or they may not be sneaky types.

I used to practice with mansa. That was fun.

I highly recommend to practice your stealing and thievery with another player within the game.  It's very fun to play with people!  And fun when you're passing off items between each other while stealing from everybody in a tavern.

Play with friends!  Make a gang!  Have fun!

[Morgenes]

FWIW, 'equipment' will not break hide after the next reboot.

[musashi]

FWIW, 'equipment' will not break hide after the next reboot.

Wow! You are fast   

[evil_erdlu]

Just wow! I didn't log in for a single day and so many answers? Thank you very much for your aid and thanks, knowing that I can 'sneak;hide;e;e;e' without typing 'hide' at every room is a great relief.

About playing with Mansa, sounds really great. I'll hope to stay alive till he decides to make another sneaky character.

[Maso]

Just wow! I didn't log in for a single day and so many answers? Thank you very much for your aid and thanks, knowing that I can 'sneak;hide;e;e;e' without typing 'hide' at every room is a great relief.

About playing with Mansa, sounds really great. I'll hope to stay alive till he decides to make another sneaky character.

Seconded. 

[Tisiphone]

FWIW, 'equipment' will not break hide after the next reboot.

Have my children.


No, really, I don't want the little buggers.

[Yam]

FWIW, 'equipment' will not break hide after the next reboot.

Have my children.


No, really, I don't want the little buggers.

I will take them.

[cyberpatrol_735]

Also, you can edit your prompt (see help prompt) so that your invisibility status shows up in your return prompt. I think should let you know if you're still hidden or not.

FYI, this is incorrect. Invisibility status != Hide Status.


This only shows if you affected by a certain spell, as you would not know if you were successfully hidden or not, which has been discussed many times before.

Thanks for clearing that up for me!

No problem.