The look command

[Shimrod]

This command isn't supposed to be a challenge, right?
I mean, the only possible way to know someone's status/rank (templars aside) is by looking at them. But by looking at them, you are potentially putting yourself in the position of NOT being deferential. How do I get around this?

I kind of understood "look" as quickly taking in a person and what they are wearing, not using some sort of lingering glance/meeting their eyes/etc. Am I off-base here?

[BlackMagic0]

I kind of understood "look" as quickly taking in a person and what they are wearing, not using some sort of lingering glance/meeting their eyes/etc. Am I off-base here?

I always do this.. Don't worry.. If they take it as a bad-look or such, they maybe just pissy IC and its IC reasons..
I have to look to see rank, if nobles, etc.. If nobles or just merchants and all that..

just do something like...

em takes a quick, sidelong glance at ~person
l person

If you really wanna point out its a quickie glance, that is.. If you wanna stare, throw that in a emote or the l..   l person (staring)
And then go back to what ever you were doing. 

[Gunnerblaster]

Always interesting about how when someone walks into a room, most PC's immediately drop what their doing - for a moment - to 'look' at them.

>The tall man has arrived from the east.
>The brown woman looks at the tall man.
>The nobly man looks at the tall man.
>The blind man looks at the tall man.

Am I the only one who finds this slightly amusing???

[Southie]

You can do things like...

>look (with a brief glance)
>look (eyes lowered respectfully)
>look (with a discrete turn of her head)

... and so on. That lets the other player know how you're looking at them.

You can also do:

>look man's cloak
>look man's signet
>look man's aba

And so on. That'll let you glance at something the person is wearing (if they're wearing anything with the keyword you put in), and that'll help you identify what they might be without a look echo.

Once you get a bit of experience, it becomes easier to tell who's important. Does the PC have a guard with them? Are they wearing a metal ring? Does their cloak have any obvious symbols of a noble or merchant house? Pay attention to details like that and you'll do fine.

[Gimfalisette]

The look command will take command emotes. USE THEM. They will help you indicate to the person you're looking at exactly how you're looking at them, so there's no interpretation needed.

Code Select Expand

> look man (staring openly)

Staring openly, you look at the tall, muscular man.

> look woman (giving !woman a lingering up-and-down)

Giving her a lingering up-and-down, you look at the tall, curvaceous woman.

> look woman (sneering)

Sneering, you look at the tall, curvaceous woman.

> look man (briefly)

Briefly, you look at the tall, muscular man.

And no, look is not a challenge in and of itself. But using command emotes with it will help tell your target that.

Duuuuuuuuuuuuur. Southie just said the same thing

[Shimrod]

Thanks for the help, this clarifies it for me. I guess I was surprised look had an echo at all.

[Gimfalisette]

There are times when look does not echo: When you are looking at yourself, at an item, at the room you're in, or in a direction, if you do not attach a command emote. However, if you attach a command emote to the look command in those instances, it will echo. Which is very nifty.

Code Select Expand

> look east (squinting into the glare of the blood-red, rising sun)

Squinting into the glare of the blood-red, rising sun, you look east.

> look sword (tracing a finger delicately along its razor-sharp blade)

Tracing a finger delicately along its razor-sharp blade, you look at the obsidian longsword.

> look (staring wild-eyed)

Staring wild-eyed, you look around the room.

[Gunnerblaster]

There are times when look does not echo: When you are looking at yourself, at an item, at the room you're in, or in a direction, if you do not attach a command emote. However, if you attach a command emote to the look command in those instances, it will echo. Which is very nifty.

Your shitting me?

Well I've learned something new.

Sweet-ness.

[amish overlord]

At one point in time this use to be vital to health of your character to look at everyone. Use to be least in nak, nobles killed you if you didn't acknowledge and bow to them(not all nobles but a few). I swear one of my guys die when my power went out do to one of these. Fortunately this has changed, nobles not getting po'd when not everyone stops and bows. and for some people habits die hard.

Amish Overlord 

[Conspiracy Theory]

The "look (with a brief glance)" thing doesn't hold water to me.

If you're "looking" at someone closely enough to observe their entire main description and every article of clothing/jewelry they're wearing then you're looking at them pretty closely. I govern my "looks" at other PCs pretty tightly for this purpose, and it is a pet peeve of mine when everyone in a busy, bustling barroom with VNPCs walking in and out multiple times per second that when one poor Joe walks in he's spammed with 10 "look (with a glance)" type deals.

If there's particular insignia I'd notice or somesuch I usually use "look man's cloak" or "look man's robes", or stuff like that, and then only take a full "look" if anything about their character would really pique mine's interest enough to take a really close, detailed look at them.

And if I do give them a look like this I am not at all surprised if their character takes notice, because yes, I -was- giving them a pretty close once-over.

[Jenred]

I always thought look should be hidden, (like it is with items, directions, etc) unless emoted specifically, or a tagged look.

You are looking at things all the time, and it would be annoying to see it echo on everything.

[Akaramu]

The "look (with a brief glance)" thing doesn't hold water to me.

If you're "looking" at someone closely enough to observe their entire main description and every article of clothing/jewelry they're wearing then you're looking at them pretty closely. I govern my "looks" at other PCs pretty tightly for this purpose, and it is a pet peeve of mine when everyone in a busy, bustling barroom with VNPCs walking in and out multiple times per second that when one poor Joe walks in he's spammed with 10 "look (with a glance)" type deals.

I believe most people do this to just take note of anything very easily noticeable, and possibly very important, that just seeing the sdesc doesn't provide. A red-eyed demon being worn on the head, all clothes being bloodied and burned, or weapons wielded.. maybe try to just trust those players to not take a detailed note of your mdesc until you sit down nearby and draw attention towards yourself. A few might immediately copy past it, but those are a minority.

Personally, I tend to just skim over all equipment worn and often don't read the mdesc at all. Especially if it is already hard to keep up with the other spam in a place packed full of socializing PCs.

[amish overlord]

I used look as a blind character, used it to figure what I might hear, the swishing of silk, creaking of leather, sound of other things. And to rp out recognizing peoples voices, even if wore a hooded cloak. Was mildly fun.

Amish Overlord 

[Agent_137]

The "look (with a brief glance)" thing doesn't hold water to me.

If you're "looking" at someone closely enough to observe their entire main description and every article of clothing/jewelry they're wearing then you're looking at them pretty closely. I govern my "looks" at other PCs pretty tightly for this purpose, and it is a pet peeve of mine when everyone in a busy, bustling barroom with VNPCs walking in and out multiple times per second that when one poor Joe walks in he's spammed with 10 "look (with a glance)" type deals.

If there's particular insignia I'd notice or somesuch I usually use "look man's cloak" or "look man's robes", or stuff like that, and then only take a full "look" if anything about their character would really pique mine's interest enough to take a really close, detailed look at them.

And if I do give them a look like this I am not at all surprised if their character takes notice, because yes, I -was- giving them a pretty close once-over.

Look is -not- a pretty close once-over. Otherwise, the imms would not have added the emote possibility to it (which was added about a year ago i think) that's how it was before. it's not how it is now.

Every look is noticeable to some degree, true. It echoes, so it's noticeable, so sayeth the code.

But it can be a brief glance. or a long hard look. That's what the emotes are for. That's why the Imms put it there. You're not doing yourself any good playing to a different rule.

[jstorrie]

>l man's cloak and >l man's ring tend to work well for me; you can throw in >l man's medallion, in Allanak. You will run into the occasional templar or noble who wears no cloak, no medallion, and no ring (or gloves!) but then it's their own damned fault for not being obviously upper-class, so fuck 'em.

[Gimfalisette]

I'm going to point out here that the OP is a newbie. Newbies don't know how to recognize the various insignia, or what all the pertinent keywords are to surreptitiously check out someone's equipment without actually invoking a "look" that echoes.

Give newbies a break. Look is just a look, that's all. And until we have some way of codedly knowing that OMG UR CHARACTER IS TOTALLY NAKED, DOOD without "look"ing...then folks just need to deal with the fact that look is a coded solution to the issue of needing to acquire pertinent information.

[mansa]

You can do:

Code Select Expand

>assess -v <keyword>

This will give the echo, '<sdesc> glances at <sdesc>.'

This will tell you what approximate age someone is relative to their race, how large and how tall they are, as well as if they are ARMED.


I'd like it if it would tell people if they were a noble or a templar or an important person of rank as well, but alas, only in dreams


If you're a rogue, you can also use the 'peek' skill to see what people are wearing, discretely (depending on your skill).

[fallacy]

I wish we could get rid of the look echo.

[Wish]

I also would like to get rid of the look echo.  My char hasn't used look for months for just that reason.

[X-D]

Your PC must not like interaction.

The look echo  brings it. No matter what many of you think, without it there would be much less PC to PC interaction, specially with newbs. Who can at least figure that the one that looked at them might be a PC instead of the npc they have been saying to  for the last 10 minutes.

Have your client parse it out sometime and see how much more boring the game gets.

[Irulan]

I honestly just don't feel like the look echo is -that- big of a deal. Codedly it is the only way that you can get an overall glimse of what the person looks like easily and quickly.

look <person's> cloak works...but what if they are wearing a duster, or an aba? If thier hood is down you can't tell that without look, and I don't really want to sit there and go through:

l <person's> cloak
You do not see that here

think Damn
l <person's> aba
You do not see that here

continue ad naseum - when if I just -looked- at them, I would know what they were wearing easily and quickly.
In RL bars, people will 'people watch' all the time without it being distracting. I kind of think of the look command in a similar fashion. Unless someone is emoting out that they are staring my character down or something else very notable, I just tend to overlook it.

I guess I just don't really see it as a very big deal.

-Irulan

[aruna]

Code Select Expand


> look (staring wild-eyed)

Staring wild-eyed, you look around the room.

I love it when I learn something new.

[a strange shadow]

I always thought look should be hidden, (like it is with items, directions, etc) unless emoted specifically, or a tagged look.

You are looking at things all the time, and it would be annoying to see it echo on everything.

This.

[Gimfalisette]

Code Select Expand


> look (staring wild-eyed)

Staring wild-eyed, you look around the room.

I love it when I learn something new.

Here's another tip: In case your PC is paralyzed for some reason, but there's someone in the scene who is still interacting with you and you want to interact back, the look command is your one and only way to emote anything.

Code Select Expand

> look (staring blankly ahead, silent and motionless)

Staring blankly ahead, silent and motionless, you look around.

It's not perfect, but it's at least somewhat of a solution to being paralyzed and yet wanting to continue to interact and contribute. An imm gave me this tip when I wished up while paralyzed once, so I consider using look this way to be imm-sanctioned. Obviously it's not for emoting things you really couldn't do while paralyzed, duh.

[aruna]

Here's another tip: In case your PC is paralyzed for some reason, but there's someone in the scene who is still interacting with you and you want to interact back, the look command is your one and only way to emote anything.

I've only had a character that was paralyzed once, but she was also blinded, among other things; death followed swiftly. There was no hope for that one. In my catalogue of fond PC deaths, that one's caption reads "Overkill."

But thanks for the tip - I'll remember it for the future.

[Irulan]

Thanks for the tip, I'll have to hold that one in reserve for the future. I like learning new things too!

-Irulan

[Rhyden]

Man I love getting looked at. It's like: "Yo, check out my awesome ninja half-elf with a black leather suit and a bone katana." I can't get enough of people using the look command with my character. It just makes me feel so awesome deep down inside. Sometimes, I'll even make a scene, just so I can get more 'looks'. Seemingly enough, none of my characters are egotistical fools, except the good ones. 

I'm with Irulan - I don't think it's a big deal.

[Rindan]

If you're "looking" at someone closely enough to observe their entire main description and every article of clothing/jewelry they're wearing then you're looking at them pretty closely. I govern my "looks" at other PCs pretty tightly for this purpose, and it is a pet peeve of mine when everyone in a busy, bustling barroom with VNPCs walking in and out multiple times per second that when one poor Joe walks in he's spammed with 10 "look (with a glance)" type deals.

That is just silly.  Maybe I have twinked my stats in the real world, but I can walk into a room and instantly point out the police officer, the president, the naked guy, and the dude wearing a clown suit in about half of a second.  Hell, I can pick out the geek wearing a binary t-shirt, the jock wearing someone's football jersey, and the girl with the largest pair of breasts just as fast.  People need to get over their paranoia on look.  You can see and classify anything of importance on any person in literally the blink of an eye.  In fact, you can see and classify every single person in a room almost as fast.  Your head will discard details that are not out of the ordinary, but you certainly see them and certainly will react at anything odd.  You might walk into a crowded bar and promptly forget what every single person looks like and is wearing, but you better damn well believe that you would notice instantly if your eyes even briefly passed over someone who was utterly naked.

My advice?  Look often and look liberally.  If anyone takes it as a staring contest, ignore them.  It is pretty easy to look at the guy walking in the door, see that he looks normal, and not bother to read much into his equipment.  This is a lot more realistic than silly situations where the naked person walks in and no one notices until after a half hour conversation because people feared that a look echo would cause their eyes to be gouged out.

Seriously, and this goes for Templars too.  How many times have people failed to notice the color a Templars robe or even their gender because they were terrified that the Templar would PK them for daring to flash a look echo at them?  Seriously people, the look command will not hurt you.  Use it.

[Salt Merchant]

Can anyone put forward a reason that we need a look echo for looking at PCs and NPCs?

Like Jenred pointed out, there's no echo for looking at the environment or at objects. Nor at VNPCs for that matter.

Maybe we could we just rely on using emotes when a character wants to make a point of looking (such as staring at someone, looking them up and down, looking at them contemptuously or admiringly and so on).

[Irulan]

Can anyone put forward a reason that we need a look echo for looking at PCs and NPCs?

Like Jenred pointed out, there's no echo for looking at the environment or at objects. Nor at VNPCs for that matter.

Maybe we could we just rely on using emotes when a character wants to make a point of looking (such as staring at someone, looking them up and down, looking at them contemptuously or admiringly and so on).

I always assumed that the reason that the inanimate objects didn't get an echo, was because they are inanimate and wouldn't notice., When looking at a person, there is a fairly good chance that they are going to notice you taking a glance at it, as well as anyone else in the room. Even if you are just scanning over the crowd, most likely -someone- in the room will see you do that. If there was an echo for every single object, then our screens would be completely full of 'look' spam. Most likely, if  you are just glancing at some object or another, most people wouldn't even notice that. If you emote when looking, you are looking in a way that may draw some attention. So, I like the way that the look is for objects. On that same thread, I like the way that look is for people. I think that most people would notice your eyes looking them over, even if only for a glance. And so would most of the people in that same area. So, I generally feel that the way that look is now, is relatively related to realism. Most people would notice, at least enough that the subconcious would make note...hey, that guy just glanced at me.

Just my opinion.
-Irulan

[roughneck]

Can anyone put forward a reason that we need a look echo for looking at PCs and NPCs?

A character's sdesc is your brief glance, if you want to see their main description, clothes beyond their cloak etc. you have to cloak.  You're main description is at least four lines and your wear list is fairly descriptive as well, it's enough information and detail that you should notice when somebody's getting.  Until there's an easy way to mask yourself it's necessary that you know if somebody looked at you in certain situations, although most of the time it really doesn't matter.

[Marauder Moe]

Sdescs are totally not your "brief glance".  In real life, most people don't have sdescs.

I've never been able to make up my mind on whether or not look should echo.  Both sides have merit.

I do, however, believe that if someone looks at you and then in turn you react as though their character is staring at you, that's power playing.  If someone chooses not to specify with a command emote I feel it's best to interpret it as just a glance.  Your character is allowed to notice it if you want, but it's just a glance, something that happens just about every single time you pass into someone's sight.  Don't attach any further meaning to it.

[Akaramu]

I wish looks without emote attached were just like hemotes, with a chance to notice them or not. Seems realistic to me, if someone enters a tavern and looks at someone who sits at the bar talking to the barkeep, they probably don't have eyes attached to the back of their head. Every single look being noticeable by everyone, all the time, seems unrealistic to me.

Making them hemotes would also cut down the tavern spam some. 

[Seeker]

I do, however, believe that if someone looks at you and then in turn you react as though their character is staring at you, that's power playing.

And I partially disagree.  If you receive a "look echo" from another PC, if you decide to notice and how you choose to react to being looked at is completely in your province.  It would only be power-playing if you actually "redefine" their look somehow.

The petite otherpc looks at you, sparing a brief glance.

Acceptable (if somewhat indicative of mental instability)
emote visibly tenses under ^otherpc glance, muttering under her breath and shifting further back into the jostling crowd.

Not so groovy
emote noting ^otherpc hungry, bug-eyed oggling, @ reaches a hand for ^Knifeo'Doom


Seeker

[Marauder Moe]

I think you got my idea.

Obviously if your character is insane or looking to stir up some shit you could ICly react to a glance as though your character thought it was a stare.  However, you shouldn't react to a glance or an un-modified look as though it was, in fact, a stare.

[Akaramu]

I would get so tired of finding a dozen different ways to add variations of a brief glance to the look command. So much easier for everyone involved to simply not assume a plain unemoted 'look' as a stare. 

[Agent_137]

I wish looks without emote attached were just like hemotes, with a chance to notice them or not. Seems realistic to me, if someone enters a tavern and looks at someone who sits at the bar talking to the barkeep, they probably don't have eyes attached to the back of their head. Every single look being noticeable by everyone, all the time, seems unrealistic to me.

Making them hemotes would also cut down the tavern spam some. 

Right, but they aren't. So I must interpret a look as not a brief glance, not as a stare, but a good, solid look. They see everything about my PC. my mdesc, all my gear, which they can then look at in detail without echo.

A quick, brief, unnoticable glance is called PEEK and it's a skill.

[Marauder Moe]

Right, but they aren't. So I must interpret a look as not a brief glance, not as a stare, but a good, solid look. They see everything about my PC. my mdesc, all my gear, which they can then look at in detail without echo.

Like Rindan said, real people can do this in a small fraction of a second.

[Shimrod]

I wish looks without emote attached were just like hemotes, with a chance to notice them or not. Seems realistic to me, if someone enters a tavern and looks at someone who sits at the bar talking to the barkeep, they probably don't have eyes attached to the back of their head. Every single look being noticeable by everyone, all the time, seems unrealistic to me.

Making them hemotes would also cut down the tavern spam some. 

Right, but they aren't. So I must interpret a look as not a brief glance, not as a stare, but a good, solid look. They see everything about my PC. my mdesc, all my gear, which they can then look at in detail without echo.

A quick, brief, unnoticable glance is called PEEK and it's a skill.

But you are using a code limitation as an excuse to start some shit!

IRL we can take in all sorts of details in a millisecond glance out of the corner of our eyes or even just scanning the room. The peek skill is a poor substitute - we shouldn't need a stealthy skill just to notice that the guy sitting at the bar is wearing extraordinarily bright silk clothes and is thus probably a noble.

[Agent_137]

you want a change. take it to the armageddon reborn folder.

I'm talking how things should be interpreted right now. My concept is based on the coded options. Yours is based on perceptions and wants.

[Marauder Moe]

Your concept is based on a perception of a coded option.