Elementalists in Allanak

[LittleLostThief]

It had been almost a year before I played a gemmer in Allanak, but I've found a disturbing trend that seems a little out of place to me.  Perhaps I am wrong here or missed something, but it almost seems to me that anyone wearing a gem has been banned from any place in Allanak other than the elementalist Quarter.  Do not Elementalists have the same rights as a commoner though they are a bit lower on the food chain?

I have played many magickers over the years I've spent on Armageddon and one of the aspects that I love the most about it is being hated and feared and persecuted.  Keep in mind that the documentation states that most magickers in Allanak are not willing to leave the city for any reason because they know how dangerous it can be for them outside.  Also keep in mind the fact that it can be FUN to play an incompetent mage who hasn't really learned a lot about the skills and spells listed on their character sheet.  In fact, it seemed to me that some of the most rewarding play could stem from these "early" years as a magicker, although my observation seems to be that most are only wanting the "master" mage experience and blow through their skillset as quickly as humanly possible without getting the twinkhammer bashed into their heads.

Finding ways to make coins as a new magick user in Allanak WITHOUT leaving the city can and should be fairly entertaining.  My last character was a con artist and made enough coins to live by pretending to be a fortune teller with kruth cards before he became comfortable and confident that he could exist outside.  I plied my trade in the most popular bars, and if anything I felt that some other characters were breaking their role to experience what I had to offer from a roleplay perspective.  Or perhaps they just felt like I was trying hard and wanted to reward me even if their characters would have been far too scared to participate realistically.  Nonetheless, as I said earlier I was able to make enough coins to easily provide for myself and have a little spending change as well.  And all without ever having to put a pick to any obsidian or salt in a bag.

Even though things have not changed terribly much politically in that time that I can tell, the magick user that I am currently playing seems doubly ostracized from being outside of the Elementalist Quarter.  Where as before I was met with fear, dirty looks, and even open violence (all of which was terribly fun), now it seems that every time that I try to interact with a non-gemmed PC the powers that be are summoned and I'm carted back to my Quarter far away from the eyes of other players.  This is disturbing to me because I feel like every player should have the largest chance to interact with other players as possible and enhance the overall experience for everyone involved.  Please try to be as inclusive to everyone as you can.  That's probably the reason you see so many Nobles in the Barrel, too, instead of the Traders.

What I'm really begging for here is for you to stop and think a moment about how to treat Elementalists in Allanak.  Hate them.  Fear them.  Kill them.  Hire others to assassinate them.  Try to trick, steal from, or harass them in any and every way possible.  Know that they are just a notch below other commoners and you really have the social advantage on them.  All of these things make for a great play, yet are still inclusive of many PCs and can actually be FUN for everyone involved.  And when it comes down to it, it's all about everyone having FUN.  But when every attempt to play outside of the Quarter is only met with a firm resistance and I am forced to return to my Temple every single time, it's almost like you are begging me to powergame.

[Marauder Moe]

Things like this tend to fluctuate based on the tides of player opinion and the specific law enforcement PCs playing.  

In the last few months it seemed like gemmer acceptance was on the rise.  Then there was a backlash on the forums and I guess now it's waning again.

Some templars really like gemmers and treat them well so next time some horrible magickal monster attacks the city, they'll step forward and volunteer to help rather than hide away in their temple.  On the other end of the spectrum, I had a Oash mage who was minding his own business be picked up by one templar's half-giant and tossed out of the Bard's Barrel, forbidden to return under penalty of death.

You're right, though, gemmers are lawful citizens of Allanak and their movements are not legally restricted any more so than a mundane commoner.  However, a templar's whim (and sometimes even a soldier's whim) supersedes the common law.

Let's also not forget that some unusual events recently happened in Allanak which could have shifted public opinion.

[Gimfalisette]

To be honest, this is totally a "find out IC" issue. There are months of IC events, personalities, interactions, and machinations behind the ways other characters are interacting with your character.

[Malken]

We were also told to stop whining on the forum and to do things IC if we wanted to get rid of all magickers. I guess we took your advices, now that it's working, we should back down? Pfft

[Ghost]

I do not quite understand the problem here.  You are saying you are fine with the mean/evil/scared kind of reactions against your elementalist.  Yet, you are saying people are treating you in a way you are forced to stay in your quarter.  It seems like you are contradicting yourself there.  Because, people -are- treating you bad enough that you are not comfortable anywhere but in your quarter.  So what am I missing here?
Perhaps you could elaborate what kind of behaviour is pushing you back?  You are being ignored?  (Quite a fine reaction)  People draw blades against you?  (Again, not too out of place.  Harsh, yes, but still okay to me)  People telling you to go back?  (Again, fine reaction.  You have the option not to do as they tell you)  Or what else?

[Southie]

There is no absolute law in effect that says elementalists cannot leave their quarter.

Whether they are welcome anywhere else is probably best discussed IC.

[staggerlee]

A well played authority figure can make you feel like total dirt and send you running back to the gemmer quarter sobbing without making your play any less enjoyable.  

As a victim, you -can- help ensure that happens.  Play your gemmer by the docs, and when you deal with authority be interesting, and play in a way that will encourage further interaction.  Basically, make it fun for them too, and worth rping out.

Example:

If you wander into a bar talking about magick and a templar asks what the hell you're doing don't react with "say Nothing, just came in for a drink." (five minute pause while you wait for the templar to respond.)  Instead be engaging, colorful, and generally fun to be around.

If you're boring, players will want to get rid of you as quickly as possible, and won't be too worried about you sulking in the gemmer quarter.  If you're fun to play with, maybe the templar will decide he needs a pet gemmer. Who knows.

If that's not enough, go look up some of the threads that have come up recently on playing a good leader, or gimf's thread on getting involved in plots.  That stuff helps in every aspect of play.  Or hell, just go read the Kudos thread and take tips from that one.    

Be fun, have fun, and don't be afraid to be aggressive about being a social reject.

[Agent_137]

I haven't seen that at all, OP. In fact, I've seen quite the opposite personally.

i read your post and i thought "what's the date on this, did someone necropost from 2005??"

I do see your point though. How can we have ostracized and hated magickers if they're not around to ostracize and hate? We as the players need to strike a balance between forcing 'gickers to play apart and engaging the fear/hate based RP that we all love.

So while I disagree that what the OP says is happening, if it IS happening, then i completely agree with his assessment.

Honestly though, sounds like some people have a personal problem with YOUR mage. Maybe you should put a spell on them and teach those worthless mundanes a lesson! Log snatching a hair or something from them, take it back, do some nasty non-coded magickal shit to it, and send it to council/gemmer/magickal immortals to make that person get sick or come down with a rash.

and then snicker at them when you pass in the street.

Welcome to Armageddon!

[amish overlord]

I think the problem is the quarter can be boring and has some limited resources(shops, no bar!) etc.  Was just pondering at one pointed the gemmed were normal amos, running a family business now they are people who can give out curses. Surprised not more entrepreneurial mages selling their families fine wares(liquor or whatever), since family decided best to let their now monster family member have some resources rather than have them put a curse on the family business.

Amish Overlord  

[Aruven]

Mages commonly don't play the stereotype. They're bold, and all do their own thing, with eachother normally, and get to the point ic and ooc where it's hard to do anything about them.

Mundanes don't help much either, and constantly utilize them at times, and don't have the prejudice these days. That's in the south at least, but I haven't been down in a couple months now so, maybe that's changed.

It's all up to the players.

[Agent_137]

problem is anytime a stereotype isn't true, smart people figure it out eventually.

A lot of people prefer smart characters.

So these characters figure out ICly that, 'hey, there's a lot to be gained by trafficking in magick users.'

So the solution is people need to RP characters with stronger, more deep-seated fear/hate of magick (outside of tuluk), and 'gickers need to start giving these folk something to worry about!

[Eternal]

problem is anytime a stereotype isn't true, smart people figure it out eventually.

I'd agree the problem then is that the stereotype isn't true.  More magickers need to truly consider themselves condemned to -be- the stereotypes and less of the emo 'Poor me, now I have to live in a temple and everyone hates me but I'm not a bad guy, I really just want to help' gicker types.

Stereotypes (almost universally) have a background of truth to them; someone get out there and give the mundanes a -reason- to believe!

Lord Templar Hard Nose says to the young, allanaki child:
"Then they suck out your brains using only the breath from your nose as a rope!"

[manonfire]

Here's the distinction.

Some gemmers are intelligent, well-spoken, and they don't do stupid shit, like sit in the Barrel and talk about components, power levels, and spheres.

Other gemmers are annoying, poorly played, zero karma specapps.

Players can tell, and they'll respond accordingly.

[Agent_137]

I'd agree the problem then is that the stereotype isn't true.  More magickers need to truly consider themselves condemned to -be- the stereotypes and less of the emo 'Poor me, now I have to live in a temple and everyone hates me but I'm not a bad guy, I really just want to help' gicker types.

Stereotypes (almost universally) have a background of truth to them; someone get out there and give the mundanes a -reason- to believe!

Lord Templar Hard Nose says to the young, allanaki child:
"Then they suck out your brains using only the breath from your nose as a rope!"

Yea, 'gickers gotta get mad at the world instead of trying to show the world that they're different.

[Eternal]

It's a pretty realistic response to living in a society that hates you, and the only real plausible explanation for such stereotypes.  I've often wondered how the population comes up with such things if events -don't- happen to reinforce the norm.  Have to assume that it is due to NPC villany on the part of the elementalists, as players rarely cause a level of havoc that would entail such stories.

Nonetheless, we should all do our part to help people revile the foul creatures.

[Aruven]

Just a personal note here, it is HARD to play a stereotypical magicker. I attempted to, and at the time, though I wasn't the most secretive about it, my mage was shut-down immediately.

I can understand it, but I don't like it at times, is the cooperation level I see in the south. But it fits IG I guess, and is good roleplaying, so it's fine. But it just doesn't pay to be the evil prejudice mage these days.

[staggerlee]

That leads back to my earlier point.

Both parties need to trust each other, and make the play colorful and interesting.  Either party can easily kill a scene and leave one or both people sitting alone being bored.

People who hate magickers need to make it fun for magickers to be hated, not boring.   And people who play magickers need to get into the being hated  and use it to bring the world to life, instead of just sulking.

It's a two way street. Much like the thread on templars and torture, you as a victim don't need to be a victim in real life, just your character does. Take control of the scene and make it fun.  And for the magick haters, remember that these people need to be able to play the game too, so make it fun for them.

[LittleLostThief]

I think I was mostly just whining that it was hard to have a roleplay trade any more.  That I was getting absolutely shunned from a place where there is supposed to be some level of interaction with your character.  It was about the part about interaction that I was missing, not the part about being shunned and hated.  Somebody else nailed it on the head that it's hard to be hated when you never see another normal PC.

Interaction in the Quarter can be just as bad and boring.  Though I've only played two gemmed characters in Allanak over the span of a year, I could not even begin to count the number of times I've run across walking skillsets that can only talk about how uber maxxxed they are.

Still, there should be a lot of decent interaction between the two groups in Allanak.  I've played a lot of scenes on a number of levels and they all were incredibly fun.  There are plenty of ways to take care of a magick user that you don't want around other than forbidding them to ever enter the rest of the city.

[Rindan]

The leeway given to a magiker varies and is subjective.  Allanak doesn't have a public code of laws.  You don't get a trial.  You can be busted for something that isn't illegal with cries of injustice, and you can get away with something that is legal without raising an eyebrow.  The law is a fluid thing in Allanak.  So yes, gemmed are "citizens" and have all the rights of citizens... but Allanaki don't have rights.  They have whatever the Templerate gives them, and the Templerate never has and never will apply their standards evenly.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with driving a magiker out of a public place.  If someone with the authority wants you gone, there is nothing wrong with them making you gone.  Magikers are a stigmata to be seen around with.  If some uppity socialite decides that having a magiker sit next to him at the bar is making him uneasy and might be tarnishing his social reputation, he doesn't need to emote subtle irritation for half an hour, he can act if he has the power to toss you out.

I know it sucks from a players perspective, but that is just how the dice roll with gemmed.  If you want a social position, an unclaned gemmer is close to the worst possible role you could pick.  Also consider that perhaps you in particular are getting special treatment for something you have done.  There are a dozen ways you could of upset someone.  It could be as simple as that you talked to a social conscious person, someone saw you two talking, and now the person you talked to is rapidly trying to recover lost reputation when rumors started spreading that he was a magiker lover by abusing you.  I don't know anything about your situation, but consider that the extra love (or lack there of) might be special to you.

I am sympathetic to your plight.  I think that gemmed got the raw end of the deal when they didn't get their own tavern and the only place to actually meet other gemmed was outside of the quarters.  That said, you can't expect other characters to bend to please you.  If some uppity person wants to terrorize you for some good RPed reason, they shouldn't have to play nice because a gemmer is sad he is getting shoved back into his own quarters.  You might dislike the situation, but it reminds everyone else in the room that gemmed are not normal commoners that you merrily chat away with.  You might feel it is lessening your experience to have such overt hostility to your character, but well, this is the life of a gemmed.  When gemmed and the mundanes around them are played well, they tend to get minimal amounts of interaction.  That is tough on folk who OOCly like to interact with lots of people, but, well, that is just how the role comes.  It is like complaining that when you are an escaped mul you hate how you can't chill in the Gaj.  

I am sympathetic and have been in your shoes, but if it really bothers you, maybe playing a gemmed isn't for you.

[Southie]

My advice to gemmed players who want to get some interaction outside the Quarter: try and get a job set up for yourself.

The Council of Allanaki Mages and House Oash are the two obvious sources of employment for mages, but there are other opportunities as well if you're creative. Vivaduans can get by selling water to various people for cheap, a Krathi might make an interesting living doing bodyguard/escort work for desert travelers, Whirans can scout, etc. The Merchant Houses, independent merchants, independent hunters and even some criminal types might all have work for mages if you can present yourself well. They may not entirely trust you, and they may not be comfortable, but you can get work. That seems to be the interaction you're looking for?

You could also even try to live out a profession completely unrelated to your magick, such as taking a crafting subguild, or being a thief, trader, bard, etc.

I think it's a common misconception that everybody who gets a gem is a slave directly to the Templarate and can only get work from Tek (or Oash, which is near the same thing). Beyond wearing the gem, obeying all the laws, and not causing trouble for the city-state, Allanak doesn't require anything else of gemmed mages, and plenty of NPCs in the elementalist quarter reflect that.

[Melody]

Interaction in the Quarter can be just as bad and boring.  Though I've only played two gemmed characters in Allanak over the span of a year, I could not even begin to count the number of times I've run across walking skillsets that can only talk about how uber maxxxed they are.

As a gemmed mage, it is to be expected that you will not have the same level of interaction with mundane characters which you would have enjoyed if you are playing one of them. There is a decent amount of roleplay for both, but you will find that most happen behind the doors or somewhere out of the way. Waiting for others to hate you in an interesting way so you can have something to rp about may not be the best way to improve interaction.

In many ways, it can be even worse in the Quarter. There are layers of secrecy and maybe elitism ic. If others do not trust you, which is almost always the case at first, then there is not much you will be able to see behind the curtain. Both the city and the Quarter is near bursting with plots and politics, if you find few interaction, I'd suggest you to build some deeper, more meaningful relationships with pcs. It does not necessarily has to be good relationships. Otherwise, the most you will get out of is a hello, how are you, need anything? Nothing? Bye. (it is usually good to make up something you need, even if you do not)

Still, there should be a lot of decent interaction between the two groups in Allanak.  I've played a lot of scenes on a number of levels and they all were incredibly fun.  There are plenty of ways to take care of a magick user that you don't want around other than forbidding them to ever enter the rest of the city.

The way people are acting like that is mostly ic (with a dose of coincidence with forum hate). It may be interesting roleplay for you to try and discover the true reason for yourself. Maybe the mages are retaliating, and you are missing out on the conspiracy.

[Coat of Arms]

It's a difficult issue. Mundanes are told to dislike magickers in most ways, and they get yelled at if they cut the gemmers some slack. At the same time, the more mundanes adhere to this the less interesting it can be to play a gemmed. Some are content interacting with just the handful of other mages around, but to some, having a social circle of four other people - possibly with different playtimes, agendas and styles - is just not enough.

My last Allanaki character hated gemmers. Aside from the common reasons, he hated them because many of the ones he saw were dressed like nobles, because some had this smugly superior attitude, because they seemed despite all logic to be better citizens than normal folks. I, and thus my character as well, did not consider the current gemmed characters to be portrayed as we thought they should be, so the disdain that might normally have caused both of us to ignore the magickers now meant that we decided to target them in certain ways.

The playerbase's attitude toward magickers usually depends how the current gemmed PCs are played.

[Ender]

The whole reason magickers are a karma class is because they're supposed to be difficult to play.  This difficulty encompasses the alienation and ostracizing that occurs if you decide to play a gemmed magicker.

Anyone who decides to play a gemmed should keep that in mind.  If that style of play is not what you are looking for, don't play a gemmed magicker.

PCs who treat poorly and tell you to leave are properly playing their characters, and should not be admonished for doing so.  People who will immediately chum it up with you and be your best friend might have good IC reasons to do so, but they've decided to play outside of the cultural norm, and this should be much rarer than the commoner that is too afraid to talk to you or wants you to leave.

It makes standard interaction tougher, but it does not end interaction.  A PC telling you to leave is interacting with you, and creating conflict, BONUS!

I also want to reiterate this.  KARMA CLASS = DIFFICULT TO PLAY.  Yes when commoners actually adhere to the standards of distrusting/disliking/hating magick it makes playing a gemmed hard, IT SHOULD BE HARD.

[manonfire]

Don't get mad, get even.

[Mood]

Here's the distinction.

Some gemmers are intelligent, well-spoken, and they don't do stupid shit, like sit in the Barrel and talk about components, power levels, and spheres.

Other gemmers are annoying, poorly played, zero karma specapps.

Players can tell, and they'll respond accordingly.

Truth.