Brawl code.

[psionic fungus]

...instead of it just all the sudden sending you and the other brawler into a spam-fest of high-speed combat.

I still throw my vote down for combat that operates at a playable speed.  I want to be able to emote and react -properly- to every strike that is made, not have half a screen of spam between commands.  I'm really tired of having my emotes about getting to my feet after being bashed come out rounds after I have already stood up (of course, command emotes can help with this, if you're willing to risk being on the ground while you type).

[X-D]

There are some good suggestions in this thread, but the one thing that I think the brawlcode absolutely needs is a change so that you're not immune to brawl attacks while sitting at a bar or table. I've seen that abused so many times, and it makes no sense

QFT

Had recent experiance with that one that, as far as I was concerned was sheer twinkery.

Also, Yes, give brawl some real teeth on the hp side, lower it on the stun side I say. I want to see who is bleeding...specialy since I've never seen a brawl where the players were not emoting blood.

Simply put it where you get the "if you want to continue" Message at 1 point below healing without sleep or other intervention.

Others have some good ideas...but on the current incarnation, a few simple changes would really help.

[brytta.leofa]

Brawl should be integrated with regular combat.  Using "hit" on someone in a tavern should start up regular combat(sort of), but you'd have to type "hit" each time you wanted to hit someone instead of it just all the sudden sending you and the other brawler into a spam-fest of high-speed combat.  There would be sufficient lag to keep someone from spamming "hit" and the nifty little messages that are used in the brawl code could randomly be thrown in there just like it is now.

Dude.
1 - Make "hit" behave like this *everywhere*--always a single attack, with or without weapons.
2 - Make crime-code do nothing until the victim gets into the "moderate" or "poor" range, regardless of the mode of attack (bash, kick, weapons, whatever).

[staggerlee]

There's probably an issue with playability vs realism.
Not saying broader brawl code won't work... but think worse case scenario.

Brawl code that worked everywhere till moderate or so would be abused quite promptly.  Brawl someone down to moderate, then have your friend chuck a couple daggers from the shadows to finish them off without the guards ever noticing.  That'd get old real, real fast.  It'd be realistic if guards were played by people, but since NPCs can't make decisions the crim code is stuck being kind of black and white.

And yeah, as has been pointed out, knocking people out with the brawl code has the same problem.

Combat code is a risky business.

And that's why taverns are guarded like crown jewels too.  Imagine the fun when your merchant is sitting in a dark corner closing a business deal and some dude who just rolled his first mud character walks in with a warrior and takes you out to see if you've got a nicer hat than him.

[Coat of Arms]

The taverns weren't always under permanent soldier lockdown, and I didn't notice any excessive killing of merchants back when criminal activity was actually feasible outside the rinth. As a matter of fact, unless you have ridiculously high strength, killing somebody with a freshly rolled warrior is pretty damn difficult provided that the target is capable of typing flee.

[Mr.B]

I'm with Rindan on the brawl code. If you want some teeth in brawling, and you don't give a shit about spending some jail time over it. Use the kill command. Brawl is fine as it is, it's just an RP tool. If you want to emote brawling, that's even better. If your opponent just poweremotes at you, brawl his ass. If you are a hardcore mothersucker and you got 'sid to burn for new weapons, lay the criminal coded beatdown on his ass and if you happen to KO 'em, shove a handful of scrab intestine in his mouth and lay a fart up his left nostril for when he wakes up. Hell, it makes for a great story to tell if you survive and if you don't... it may still be worth it.

[Angela Christine]

As a matter of fact, unless you have ridiculously high strength, killing somebody with a freshly rolled warrior is pretty damn difficult provided that the target is capable of typing flee.

You know that "flee" is a skill, right?  A skill that some guilds really suck at. If you are not good at flee it can take several attempts, each with a delay, before you actually flee.

[Coat of Arms]

Not really, unless you're in a one-exit room. Also, flee has no delay.

[Mood]

I'm with Rindan on the brawl code. If you want some teeth in brawling, and you don't give a shit about spending some jail time over it. Use the kill command. Brawl is fine as it is, it's just an RP tool. If you want to emote brawling, that's even better. If your opponent just poweremotes at you, brawl his ass. If you are a hardcore mothersucker and you got 'sid to burn for new weapons, lay the criminal coded beatdown on his ass and if you happen to KO 'em, shove a handful of scrab intestine in his mouth and lay a fart up his left nostril for when he wakes up. Hell, it makes for a great story to tell if you survive and if you don't... it may still be worth it.

I, for one, would do this... if it was possible to do without being instantly destroyed by NPCs in the other room.

[Angela Christine]

Not really, unless you're in a one-exit room. Also, flee has no delay.

Roll up a dwarven merchant in Tuluk.  Now go outside and find a vestric or other little critter.  Engage the critter in deadly combat.  Try to flee.  Expect to see "You couldn't get away!" a few times.  Delay may not be exactly the right term.  But if you enter "flee" five times fast, all five flee attempts do not go through instantly.

[X-D]

AC is correct...and another funny thing about flee...if you do NOT have the skill, you will flee 100% of the time without fail.

Only difference is that with the skill you know where you went and can even try and aim for a direction but can fail to flee at all, without...its random and you have no idea which way...but...you cannot fail.

As to using kill...Dude...with the way taverns currently are, that means you die...since you cannot be subdued out of combat...something I personaly think NPC soldiers ONLY should be able to do.

[a strange shadow]

AC is correct...and another funny thing about flee...if you do NOT have the skill, you will flee 100% of the time without fail.

This is wrong. You can fail to flee when you don't have the flee skill.

Which, um, makes sense.

[Gimfalisette]

I love that brawl is really just an RP tool. I don't want to see that changing. It's an RP tool that does have code backing it up, since skill really does make a difference in the outcome of the fight. For the most part, I have not seen people playing this in poor ways; and I've seen some really awesome RP come from brawling.

I just want it to be less actually lethal to those who don't know what they're doing entirely, or make an OOC mistake like getting keywords mixed up.

[X-D]

This is wrong. You can fail to flee when you don't have the flee skill.

Alright, let me put it this way. In a decade and a half of playing. Well over 40 PCs without the flee skill. Playing all of them risky. IF there was a direction he could go, that did not require another skill to do And was not out of stam or riding. My PC has Never, EVER not even once failed to flee without the skill. If it has been changed in the last...5 months (length of time since last PC without the skill) Then Great.

But, in my experiance, if there is nothing stopping the PC from fleeing, its been no fail.

I just want it to be less actually lethal to those who don't know what they're doing entirely, or make an OOC mistake like getting keywords mixed up.

I do want to see a tiny bit more code in it myself...little more HP, lot less stun damage and I'd be happy...That and should not be able to get out of a brawl by simply sitting down...thats lame.

And many of the suggestions I've seen on this thread so far would also make it less lethal to those who make mistakes what have you.
Hell...just if npc soldiers could subdue out of combat would work...but I suppose that has nothing to do with brawl code:)

[spawnloser]

About what X-D has said...

I'm pretty certain I've failed to flee while not having the skill.  With the skill, I've never failed to know which way I've gone, but I've failed too, just not as often.  I think you've been lucky.

Otherwise, agreed except on one small point.

I want everyone to be able to subdue someone that is in combat.  That way you can actually have NPCs or PCs or both running up to tackle some combatants when the fighting gets ugly, ending combat by subduing both people.  Then the law drags off the guilty, and after a short delay lets go of the fellow combatant.  That would be a great scene, and I want it.  Give it modifiers or something, but I want it in.

[X-D]

You would have to change it so that a subdued person could not be attacked then...otherwise, the possibility...nay certainty for massive abuse would come into play...specialy since a subdued person might as well be sleeping combat wise if somebody else attacks...also...if 2 people are fighting and you subdue one then the second one gets free swings...no thank you.

Far as npc soldiers being able to do it, just make it so it also forces disengage on the other PC/npc if they attack again then they are crim flagged and dealt with as well...maybe even more harshly, after, soldier already basicly said stop it, broke the fight, other one ignored him...maybe add a kill don't subdue flag to the offending PC.

[Coat of Arms]

The way DIKU works, and in my experience it has been the same on Arm, if a room has four or more exits then you have only a tiny, tiny chance to fail flee. I don't remember whether or not you can fail without having the skill, but it's not that important.

Since this has already been derailed, here's what I mean when I say that it's difficult for a freshly rolled warrior to kill anybody who isn't rendered immobile:

Assuming you have insane strength, great weapons, and/or get a bunch of lucky rolls on damage, it will take 6-10 "very hard" hits to kill another human character.

Assuming you have pretty good strength, decent weapons, and average luck, it will take about 10-12 "solid" hits to kill another human character.

Assuming you have average strength and average weapons, you'll be hitting somewhere between "lightly" and "solidly", or usually about 15 times to deal the 100 points of damage that is enough to beat the average human character.

Assuming you have bad strength, or are an elf, or have crappy weapons, doing nicks and grazes and the occasional lightly, it can take you as many as 30+ hits to kill a guy.

That's not counting stun damage from a bludgeoning weapon, but still, I believe it's pretty accurate. I had a 20+ day warrior with exceptional strength and very high skills, and I couldn't kill anybody who wasn't subdued or locked up in an apartment unless I was very lucky with bashes and such. I remember attacking what appeared to be a newly created magicker PC (he cast on me), he had no visible spells on and was unarmed and the fight went something like this:

Code Select Expand


You miss bash on magicker.

You slash magicker very hard.
You solidly slash magicker.
Magicker misses you.

You slash magicker very hard.
You wound magicker with your slash.

You solidly slash magicker.
You slash magicker.
Magicker misses you.

You slash magicker very hard.
Magicker reels from the blow.
You slash magicker.

Magicker flees.

[spawnloser]

Make it so that attacking a subdued person has a chance to hit the subduer too... like 50/50.

[allieday1]

Panic you can't escape..I have gotten that before in trying to flee without the skill. But mainly you will get away from a fight and over the shield wall in a blind run..lol