Brawl code.

[Dan]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the proper way to initiate a brawl is to use the 'hit target' command?

Has this been removed or changed in certain places?

[Malifaxis]

hit dan









Nope.

[Sakra]

Last time I tried it, it wasn't working.

[Only He Stands There]

hit brawltest to see if the place is brawl-capable.

Then hit whoever.

[Dan]

Yeah, last time I tried it didn't work either. Excessive use of force, oops.

[Folker]

It only works in taverns and not all taverns? To be honest, I detest the whole code completely, since it took two of my characters.

[Cale_Knight]

Yup. Only some taverns. Use brawltest before you try!

[Mood]

Be sure you don't, say, accidentally hit an NPC. That will initiate normal combat.

[Gimfalisette]

OK. I've seen brawl code go horrendously wrong a few times recently, and was thinking about writing up a "how to brawl" post, so here goes.

How To Brawl

Brawl code is a special type of RP-only combat that can be used in certain taverns. Each city has one or more taverns where a brawl can happen. The general rule is that the nice places won't allow brawling, and the nasty places will.

However, the way to know whether a brawl is allowed by the code is to be standing, and type "hit brawltest". The code will give you a yes or no answer as to whether brawling is allowed.

To initiate a brawl, you must type "hit <target>". You CANNOT use "kill" or "kick" or "disarm" or "bash" or "backstab" or "sap" or any other special combat moves. Doing any of those will actually initiate coded combat and you will be at probable risk of being crim-flagged, killed by your opponent, or soldier-ganked.

In order to brawl and not initiate coded combat, you also must not be wielding or holding a weapon.

Keywords are important in brawling. If you are using a keyword to hit your opponent which is shared with any of the NPCs in the room, and your opponent LEAVES the room, you will then actually hit the NPC and initiate coded combat. Then there will be crim-flagging, possible death, etc. It's much, much better to use the PC's actual name as a keyword if you can.

I'd also suggest that if you're in a room with someone who wants to brawl you, and you plan to leave, do clearly indicate that you're going before you leave the room, so you don't leave them mid-type and open to hitting an NPC. Just common courtesy; no reason to get their PC killed over a keyword error.

Brawling does involve some skill; not everyone is equally good at brawling. Find out IC about that

[GoodwinX]

I'm sure this has been suggested before but it seems like we could avoid a lot of grief if the command for brawling was just changed to:

Code Select Expand

brawl <target>
and then instead of getting crimflagged/killed due to an OOC mistake, you would just get one of the following messages:

Code Select Expand

You can't brawl here.

You can't brawl him/her. (for an NPC)

You can only brawl with your bare hands.
Unless I'm missing something about how the brawl code works, I would think it would only take a few minutes to change.

[Kyviantre]

Thats a good suggestion (IMHO).

[Lizzie]

I'm not positive but I -think- trying to brawl while you're wearing "spiked" armor - certain armor that provides added damage to your opponent, though not being actual weapons - will engage you in actual combat. So - if you plan on duking it out with some drunk in the Gaj, you might want to take your claw-tipped gloves off first.

[Nile]

Make the Folly a brawl room.

[Fathi]

In order to brawl and not initiate coded combat, you also must not be wielding or holding a weapon.

And keep in mind that many 'hold'able objects that you may not consider very weaponish at all can be used as crude weapons in a pinch, and if you happen to be holding one of them while attempting to brawl, the code will react as such.

So keep an eye on your woodworking knives, cooking implements, canes, and rocks. Yes, I've seen someone initiate combat in a tavern because they were just walking around holding a rock and forgot about it.

[spawnloser]

I'm sure this has been suggested before but it seems like we could avoid a lot of grief if the command for brawling was just changed to:

Code Select Expand

brawl <target>
and then instead of getting crimflagged/killed due to an OOC mistake, you would just get one of the following messages:

Code Select Expand

You can't brawl here.

You can't brawl him/her. (for an NPC)

You can only brawl with your bare hands.
Unless I'm missing something about how the brawl code works, I would think it would only take a few minutes to change.

I like this idea.

[Gimfalisette]

I like the idea too. I like it a lot. I'm substantially tired of watching OOC errors with the current brawl code end up in PC deaths.

[Maybe42or54]

I'd like it if brawl was broken down into various commands. Most of this can be done with emote, but it would be a lot more fun this way, to me.

Such as:
Punch (You can do this whenever you aren't subdued)
Bite (You can do this whenever, but you have a better chance of doing it when subdued.)
Throw (You can be either standing, resting, or sitting. Each state affects what you might throw)
Toss (You have to subdue them before you can toss them.)
Subdue
Knee
Elbow

brawl
You are ready to brawl!

You punch the big, scary mul in the face, and break his nose!
The big, scary mul is ready to brawl.

The big, scary mul subdues you!

You bite the big, scary mul on the shoulder!

The big, scary mul tosses you onto a table!
You are now resting on a table.

You look around and throw a mug at the big, scary mul!

You stand up.

You jump off the table and run away, jumping over another table.

You look around and throw a chair at the big, scary mul.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

If we're trying to keep brawl code separate from real code, I would offer 'grab' instead of 'subdue'.

[Kyviantre]

Those are good suggestions, would be neat to have upclass brawls (ie only using your fists to punch), and everything-goes brawls (teeth, elbows and knees and any other servicable body part)!

[Maybe42or54]

If we're trying to keep brawl code separate from real code, I would offer 'grab' instead of 'subdue'.

Ah.. good alternative.

[James de Monet]

Feel free to disagree, but I'm not certain that in a brutal place, where absolutely sovereign power rests in the hands of the few and self-interested, that it is so horribly OOC for a brawl to go horribly wrong and end up with people dead.

[Mood]

I really don't see any reason to not do this.

[Cale_Knight]

Feel free to disagree, but I'm not certain that in a brutal place, where absolutely sovereign power rests in the hands of the few and self-interested, that it is so horribly OOC for a brawl to go horribly wrong and end up with people dead.

The reason folks end up dead in brawls is because they think they're about to use the brawl code (which specifically NEVER ends up with people dead) and end up using the regular combat code (which OFTEN ends up with people dead).

That's the exact reason the brawltest command was added in the first place - to help prevent stuff like that.

[Fathi]

It also puzzles me that, after seeing multiple imm sends telling folks to read the brawl helpfile, you still can't access whatever brawl helpfile there is from the game itself.

There is no help on topic 'brawl'.
There is no help on topic 'brawling'.
There is no help on topic 'brawltest'.

Am I just using the wrong keywords there? If there really isn't a help topic on brawling, there should be.

[Pale Horse]

It also puzzles me that, after seeing multiple imm sends telling folks to read the brawl helpfile, you still can't access whatever brawl helpfile there is from the game itself.

There is no help on topic 'brawl'.
There is no help on topic 'brawling'.
There is no help on topic 'brawltest'.

Am I just using the wrong keywords there? If there really isn't a help topic on brawling, there should be.

It's under "help hit", oddly enough.

[Twisted Minstrel]

Eye-gouging is fun.... Toe-stomping, shin-kicking, groin-kneeing. Might as throw in those dirty moves while we're at it, eh?

[Cutthroat]

For any commands related to brawling like what Maybe42or54 said, there could also be command emotes.

Example:

> bite (opening ^me mouth wide) [shaking ^me head side to side vigorously]

Opening his mouth wide, the hungry brawler bites the short, hairless dwarf in the arm, shaking his head side to side vigorously.

Also, the different attacks could cause different types of damage (more stun loss, more HP loss, stamina loss etc.)

[FantasyWriter]

Very good idea!
I like anything that keeps you from dieing because of a code misunderstanding/mistake.

[Wish]

I move that "brawl" be made into a separate help file of its own, with a explanation given for "brawltest"

[FantasyWriter]

I second the motion.

TIME FOR A POLL!!!

[brytta.leofa]

I'd love to see both crime code and guard/assist code become magickally much smarter in 2.Arm.  I hate having to worry about the OOC (not IC) consequences of combat or magick in public places or near NPC troops.

Clambering onto a scarred baobob table, a crossbow brandished, the obsidian-masked bandit bellows,
 "Hands and knees and heads bowed down! Everybody, down!"
stand [^me fingers bursting into flame as !me turns]
cast 'sul un suk-krath petrol bbq' bandit
You utter a spell, and a scarred baobob table is consumed by a ball of fire!
You are now wanted!
A half-giant soldier of Tektolnes subdues you, despite your attempts to struggle away!
A half-giant soldier of Tektolnes subdues you, despite your attempts to struggle away!
A half-giant soldier of Tektolnes subdues you, despite your attempts to struggle away!

With more intelligent crim-flagging, perhaps the brawl code could someday be merged with normal fighting, such that you could (a) use all normal combat commands, but attempt to stop before you'd hurt your target 'too badly,' and (b) avoid being crim-flagged unless you went too far.

[Mood]

I'd love to see both crime code and guard/assist code become magickally much smarter in 2.Arm.  I hate having to worry about the OOC (not IC) consequences of combat or magick in public places or near NPC troops.

Clambering onto a scarred baobob table, a crossbow brandished, the obsidian-masked bandit bellows,
 "Hands and knees and heads bowed down! Everybody, down!"
stand [^me fingers bursting into flame as !me turns]
cast 'sul un suk-krath petrol bbq' bandit
You utter a spell, and a scarred baobob table is consumed by a ball of fire!
You are now wanted!
A half-giant soldier of Tektolnes subdues you, despite your attempts to struggle away!
A half-giant soldier of Tektolnes subdues you, despite your attempts to struggle away!
A half-giant soldier of Tektolnes subdues you, despite your attempts to struggle away!

With more intelligent crim-flagging, perhaps the brawl code could someday be merged with normal fighting, such that you could (a) use all normal combat commands, but attempt to stop before you'd hurt your target 'too badly,' and (b) avoid being crim-flagged unless you went too far.

I agree. I'd also like to see racial prejudice included - would that militia soldier really give a shit that an elf is getting beaten on by a few Bynners on the side of the street? Doubtful.

[Maso]

I agree. I'd also like to see racial prejudice included - would that militia really give a shit that an elf is getting beaten on by a few Bynners on the side of the street? Doubtful.

Yeh. Our soldiers are strangely and worringly uncorrupt.

[Dan]

Thats what you think.

[brytta.leofa]

Thats what you think.

Heh. I've enjoyed some beautiful and, uh, widely divergent responses to characters in different roles...from PC militia.  (One of them qualifies as a Favorite Arm Moment.)

The fact remains that a Wyvern officer who types "kill rinthi" in the Gaj will probably get smacked down or detained--I mean, assuming that the NPC half-giant soldiers are realllllly buff.

[Gimfalisette]

I agree. I'd also like to see racial prejudice included - would that militia really give a shit that an elf is getting beaten on by a few Bynners on the side of the street? Doubtful.

Yeh. Our soldiers are strangely and worringly uncorrupt.

The ranks of the NPC soldiers are largely filled by very stupid half-giants and humans who will never ever ever rank higher than Private, because they just don't have the decision-making capacity or initiative that would show them worthy of promotion. That's why they treat the Wyvern attacking a 'rinthi just exactly the same as the 'rinthi attacking the Wyvern; they don't have the smarts to make decisions based on anything but a strict set of rules.

PC soldiers are a whole different kind of animal.

[brytta.leofa]

The ranks of the NPC soldiers are largely filled by very stupid half-giants and humans who will never ever ever rank higher than Private, because they just don't have the decision-making capacity or initiative that would show them worthy of promotion. That's why they treat the Wyvern attacking a 'rinthi just exactly the same as the 'rinthi attacking the Wyvern; they don't have the smarts to make decisions based on anything but a strict set of rules.

I can almost buy that argument for half-giants (though I would counter that they tend to be perceptive mimics), but not so much for humans. It doesn't take a very smart person to know on which side his bread's buttered.

I would get a kick out of low-wisdom half-giant NPCs applying different rules than humans, though. :twisted:

[Gimfalisette]

Have seen brawl go wrong again a couple of times lately (really badly wrong sometimes), so just thought I'd bump this so that maybe some folks would be helped out by the tips about how to brawl, what not to do, etc.

[psionic fungus]

The ranks of the NPC soldiers are largely filled by very stupid half-giants and humans who will never ever ever rank higher than Private, because they just don't have the decision-making capacity or initiative that would show them worthy of promotion. That's why they treat the Wyvern attacking a 'rinthi just exactly the same as the 'rinthi attacking the Wyvern; they don't have the smarts to make decisions based on anything but a strict set of rules.

I find this to be a lame excuse for outdated code.

Reputation code could certainly eliminate this OOC anamoly.  Go 2.Arm, Go!

[Rindan]

The brawl code is cute cosmetically, but it really has not teeth.  The brawl code is fine if you just want to take a fool pop shots and fool around.  Real men turn on no save arrest and 'brawl' the old fashion way... with the kill command.

[Roark]

Allow me to add a hint to this list:

Anytime you are brawling using a PC's name, please be sure to keyword that name (i.e. 'key <name>') anytime a NPC (especially a guard) walks into the room.

[Sokotra]

The brawl code is cute cosmetically, but it really has not teeth.  The brawl code is fine if you just want to take a fool pop shots and fool around.  Real men turn on no save arrest and 'brawl' the old fashion way... with the kill command.

I agree... I really liked it when it was first implemented, but something has gotten stale about it.  

I think we should just simply be able to hit each other with fists and use emotes and stuff in taverns.. or anyplace for that matter (as long as it is with fists only) without being arrested or insta-slain.

[manonfire]

I'd like the brawl code to do stun damage on par with unarmed sparring.

I just wanna knock a bitch out without getting crimflagged.

[Rindan]

The brawl code has two big issues.  First, it doesn't do any real damage.  If you get knocked out brawling, you were spaming psi's while banging your head against the wall.  There really is no way to 'win' a brawl as it stands.  It is pretty unsatisfying to see a big ugly mercenary who can kick a Gaj over barehanded not be able to beat a cute little merchant into pulp.

Second, there is no 'stopper' on brawls.  I saw a massive brawl in the Gaj a few months back that lasted for nearly an in game day.  That is a tad over kill.

My solution?  Keep the hit command.  Crank up delay timer on it so that you can easily emote and hit at the same time.  Crank up the stun damage so it is more like fighting unarmed and give a greater advantage to people who know how to fight.  Once someone throws a punch, make it so that you have 3 minutes (+/- 2 minutes so the delay is somewhat random) to stop swinging.  Once 3 minutes (plus or minus some random time) pass, anyone who swings gets a brawl flag.  After a minute or two longer (again, make it semi-random), anyone with a brawl flag gets a crime flag.  Make the timers longer or shorter depending upon the tavern.  The Gaj might have a longer timer while the Barrel has a shorter timer.  The Sanctuary might have a very short timer, and in the Traders you would instantly get a brawling flag.  Anyone who knocks out someone else gets a brawl flag and best likely start fleeing the scene before the militia comes to arrest them.

The idea is this.  You can get into a fight, and it can have consequences.  The longer you fight, the more likely it is that the militia decides you are making a scene and decides to simply arrest everyone involved.  You can still smack someone in the face without much risk of militia instantly jumping in the 'rougher' bars... but if you start a bench clearing brawl that last a few minutes the militia is going to start dragging people away.  If you hurt someone enough during a brawl to knock them out, that is your cue to start running before the militia comes to investigate.

[Maybe42or54]

The brawl code has two big issues.  First, it doesn't do any real damage.  If you get knocked out brawling, you were spaming psi's while banging your head against the wall.  There really is no way to 'win' a brawl as it stands.  It is pretty unsatisfying to see a big ugly mercenary who can kick a Gaj over barehanded not be able to beat a cute little merchant into pulp.

Second, there is no 'stopper' on brawls.

Well, back in my human days, I once attempted to kick this cute little merchants ass with my burly warrior and I got this message, "The cute little merchant is too hurt for you to attack her, if you want to proceed, use the kill command." She was at full life.

On another occasion with the same guy, two guys decided to brawl me and I actually attacked 7 times, 3 on the first cat, and 4 on the second cat, before they were both to hurt for me to continue.

Just a little note.

[Coat of Arms]

The brawl code is cute cosmetically, but it really has not teeth. The brawl code is fine if you just want to take a fool pop shots and fool around. Real men turn on no save arrest and 'brawl' the old fashion way... with the kill command.

That would be awesome if NPC soldiers could subdue you while you were fighting, or if most taverns weren't filled and surrounded with those soldiers. Hard to survive attacking someone when a half-giant and a couple of human soldiers jump in and attack you the second you pop someone upside the head. You die before the delay from attacking is over.

I'd like the brawl code to do stun damage on par with unarmed sparring.

I just wanna knock a bitch out without getting crimflagged.

There's a very good reason why knocking someone out with brawling isn't possible. If you want to kill somebody and you manage to knock them out, they're as good as dead. You can legally subdue someone who's sleeping, and can drag them somewhere for a nice and safe kill. If you could just walk up and brawl somebody until their lights are out, that would be the biggest window for twinking in the game. Imagine killing somebody who then, with their next PC, finds you linkdead in a tavern and decides to take revenge. It'll happen sooner or later.

I think it's fair that you can slap someone around a bit without coded consequences (remember that if they're anybody special it could still cost you dearly), but if you want to beat somebody so bad that they lose cocniousness, you're going to break the law. A decent balance of realism and playability.

Well, back in my human days, I once attempted to kick this cute little merchants ass with my burly warrior and I got this message, "The cute little merchant is too hurt for you to attack her, if you want to proceed, use the kill command." She was at full life.

On another occasion with the same guy, two guys decided to brawl me and I actually attacked 7 times, 3 on the first cat, and 4 on the second cat, before they were both to hurt for me to continue.

That's because it checks for stun damage. Hitting somebody with a brawl attack makes them lose some stun, and a tiny amount of health, usually so little that they instantly recover it and appear to be in excellent condition. They might still have lost 40 stun.


There are some good suggestions in this thread, but the one thing that I think the brawlcode absolutely needs is a change so that you're not immune to brawl attacks while sitting at a bar or table. I've seen that abused so many times, and it makes no sense.

[psionic fungus]

I think you should be -able- to knock someone out in a tavern brawl, but that doing so would give you a large(r) chance of becoming wanted... Just like pulling a knife, bottle, or chair would...

[Coat of Arms]

You can just attack them fully once they become too hurt for you to legally brawl. You'll probably die in the process, but that's because someone decided that taverns should be more guarded than the crown jewels, not actually a flaw in the brawl code.

[staggerlee]

You could always brawl until the code kicks out, and then RP the rest with emotes.  It lacks the punch code gives the brawl, but on the flip side it's more colorful than code.

Keeping in mind that I've never actually used the brawl code  I should add 'start a bar fight' to my todo list.

[Sokotra]

Brawl should be integrated with regular combat.  Using "hit" on someone in a tavern should start up regular combat(sort of), but you'd have to type "hit" each time you wanted to hit someone instead of it just all the sudden sending you and the other brawler into a spam-fest of high-speed combat.  There would be sufficient lag to keep someone from spamming "hit" and the nifty little messages that are used in the brawl code could randomly be thrown in there just like it is now.  It might be cool, also, to have your stamina slowly go down (very slowly) while you are brawling.. like maybe a couple of points per hit.  I would like to see kick and bash and stuff be allowed as well... and of course, when someone got down to "bleeding heavily" or worse, then you would have to type "kill" to continue the "brawl" which may or may not crim-flag you.

[psionic fungus]

...instead of it just all the sudden sending you and the other brawler into a spam-fest of high-speed combat.

I still throw my vote down for combat that operates at a playable speed.  I want to be able to emote and react -properly- to every strike that is made, not have half a screen of spam between commands.  I'm really tired of having my emotes about getting to my feet after being bashed come out rounds after I have already stood up (of course, command emotes can help with this, if you're willing to risk being on the ground while you type).

[X-D]

There are some good suggestions in this thread, but the one thing that I think the brawlcode absolutely needs is a change so that you're not immune to brawl attacks while sitting at a bar or table. I've seen that abused so many times, and it makes no sense

QFT

Had recent experiance with that one that, as far as I was concerned was sheer twinkery.

Also, Yes, give brawl some real teeth on the hp side, lower it on the stun side I say. I want to see who is bleeding...specialy since I've never seen a brawl where the players were not emoting blood.

Simply put it where you get the "if you want to continue" Message at 1 point below healing without sleep or other intervention.

Others have some good ideas...but on the current incarnation, a few simple changes would really help.

[brytta.leofa]

Brawl should be integrated with regular combat.  Using "hit" on someone in a tavern should start up regular combat(sort of), but you'd have to type "hit" each time you wanted to hit someone instead of it just all the sudden sending you and the other brawler into a spam-fest of high-speed combat.  There would be sufficient lag to keep someone from spamming "hit" and the nifty little messages that are used in the brawl code could randomly be thrown in there just like it is now.

Dude.
1 - Make "hit" behave like this *everywhere*--always a single attack, with or without weapons.
2 - Make crime-code do nothing until the victim gets into the "moderate" or "poor" range, regardless of the mode of attack (bash, kick, weapons, whatever).

[staggerlee]

There's probably an issue with playability vs realism.
Not saying broader brawl code won't work... but think worse case scenario.

Brawl code that worked everywhere till moderate or so would be abused quite promptly.  Brawl someone down to moderate, then have your friend chuck a couple daggers from the shadows to finish them off without the guards ever noticing.  That'd get old real, real fast.  It'd be realistic if guards were played by people, but since NPCs can't make decisions the crim code is stuck being kind of black and white.

And yeah, as has been pointed out, knocking people out with the brawl code has the same problem.

Combat code is a risky business.

And that's why taverns are guarded like crown jewels too.  Imagine the fun when your merchant is sitting in a dark corner closing a business deal and some dude who just rolled his first mud character walks in with a warrior and takes you out to see if you've got a nicer hat than him.

[Coat of Arms]

The taverns weren't always under permanent soldier lockdown, and I didn't notice any excessive killing of merchants back when criminal activity was actually feasible outside the rinth. As a matter of fact, unless you have ridiculously high strength, killing somebody with a freshly rolled warrior is pretty damn difficult provided that the target is capable of typing flee.

[Mr.B]

I'm with Rindan on the brawl code. If you want some teeth in brawling, and you don't give a shit about spending some jail time over it. Use the kill command. Brawl is fine as it is, it's just an RP tool. If you want to emote brawling, that's even better. If your opponent just poweremotes at you, brawl his ass. If you are a hardcore mothersucker and you got 'sid to burn for new weapons, lay the criminal coded beatdown on his ass and if you happen to KO 'em, shove a handful of scrab intestine in his mouth and lay a fart up his left nostril for when he wakes up. Hell, it makes for a great story to tell if you survive and if you don't... it may still be worth it.

[Angela Christine]

As a matter of fact, unless you have ridiculously high strength, killing somebody with a freshly rolled warrior is pretty damn difficult provided that the target is capable of typing flee.

You know that "flee" is a skill, right?  A skill that some guilds really suck at. If you are not good at flee it can take several attempts, each with a delay, before you actually flee.

[Coat of Arms]

Not really, unless you're in a one-exit room. Also, flee has no delay.

[Mood]

I'm with Rindan on the brawl code. If you want some teeth in brawling, and you don't give a shit about spending some jail time over it. Use the kill command. Brawl is fine as it is, it's just an RP tool. If you want to emote brawling, that's even better. If your opponent just poweremotes at you, brawl his ass. If you are a hardcore mothersucker and you got 'sid to burn for new weapons, lay the criminal coded beatdown on his ass and if you happen to KO 'em, shove a handful of scrab intestine in his mouth and lay a fart up his left nostril for when he wakes up. Hell, it makes for a great story to tell if you survive and if you don't... it may still be worth it.

I, for one, would do this... if it was possible to do without being instantly destroyed by NPCs in the other room.

[Angela Christine]

Not really, unless you're in a one-exit room. Also, flee has no delay.

Roll up a dwarven merchant in Tuluk.  Now go outside and find a vestric or other little critter.  Engage the critter in deadly combat.  Try to flee.  Expect to see "You couldn't get away!" a few times.  Delay may not be exactly the right term.  But if you enter "flee" five times fast, all five flee attempts do not go through instantly.

[X-D]

AC is correct...and another funny thing about flee...if you do NOT have the skill, you will flee 100% of the time without fail.

Only difference is that with the skill you know where you went and can even try and aim for a direction but can fail to flee at all, without...its random and you have no idea which way...but...you cannot fail.

As to using kill...Dude...with the way taverns currently are, that means you die...since you cannot be subdued out of combat...something I personaly think NPC soldiers ONLY should be able to do.

[a strange shadow]

AC is correct...and another funny thing about flee...if you do NOT have the skill, you will flee 100% of the time without fail.

This is wrong. You can fail to flee when you don't have the flee skill.

Which, um, makes sense.

[Gimfalisette]

I love that brawl is really just an RP tool. I don't want to see that changing. It's an RP tool that does have code backing it up, since skill really does make a difference in the outcome of the fight. For the most part, I have not seen people playing this in poor ways; and I've seen some really awesome RP come from brawling.

I just want it to be less actually lethal to those who don't know what they're doing entirely, or make an OOC mistake like getting keywords mixed up.

[X-D]

This is wrong. You can fail to flee when you don't have the flee skill.

Alright, let me put it this way. In a decade and a half of playing. Well over 40 PCs without the flee skill. Playing all of them risky. IF there was a direction he could go, that did not require another skill to do And was not out of stam or riding. My PC has Never, EVER not even once failed to flee without the skill. If it has been changed in the last...5 months (length of time since last PC without the skill) Then Great.

But, in my experiance, if there is nothing stopping the PC from fleeing, its been no fail.

I just want it to be less actually lethal to those who don't know what they're doing entirely, or make an OOC mistake like getting keywords mixed up.

I do want to see a tiny bit more code in it myself...little more HP, lot less stun damage and I'd be happy...That and should not be able to get out of a brawl by simply sitting down...thats lame.

And many of the suggestions I've seen on this thread so far would also make it less lethal to those who make mistakes what have you.
Hell...just if npc soldiers could subdue out of combat would work...but I suppose that has nothing to do with brawl code:)

[spawnloser]

About what X-D has said...

I'm pretty certain I've failed to flee while not having the skill.  With the skill, I've never failed to know which way I've gone, but I've failed too, just not as often.  I think you've been lucky.

Otherwise, agreed except on one small point.

I want everyone to be able to subdue someone that is in combat.  That way you can actually have NPCs or PCs or both running up to tackle some combatants when the fighting gets ugly, ending combat by subduing both people.  Then the law drags off the guilty, and after a short delay lets go of the fellow combatant.  That would be a great scene, and I want it.  Give it modifiers or something, but I want it in.

[X-D]

You would have to change it so that a subdued person could not be attacked then...otherwise, the possibility...nay certainty for massive abuse would come into play...specialy since a subdued person might as well be sleeping combat wise if somebody else attacks...also...if 2 people are fighting and you subdue one then the second one gets free swings...no thank you.

Far as npc soldiers being able to do it, just make it so it also forces disengage on the other PC/npc if they attack again then they are crim flagged and dealt with as well...maybe even more harshly, after, soldier already basicly said stop it, broke the fight, other one ignored him...maybe add a kill don't subdue flag to the offending PC.

[Coat of Arms]

The way DIKU works, and in my experience it has been the same on Arm, if a room has four or more exits then you have only a tiny, tiny chance to fail flee. I don't remember whether or not you can fail without having the skill, but it's not that important.

Since this has already been derailed, here's what I mean when I say that it's difficult for a freshly rolled warrior to kill anybody who isn't rendered immobile:

Assuming you have insane strength, great weapons, and/or get a bunch of lucky rolls on damage, it will take 6-10 "very hard" hits to kill another human character.

Assuming you have pretty good strength, decent weapons, and average luck, it will take about 10-12 "solid" hits to kill another human character.

Assuming you have average strength and average weapons, you'll be hitting somewhere between "lightly" and "solidly", or usually about 15 times to deal the 100 points of damage that is enough to beat the average human character.

Assuming you have bad strength, or are an elf, or have crappy weapons, doing nicks and grazes and the occasional lightly, it can take you as many as 30+ hits to kill a guy.

That's not counting stun damage from a bludgeoning weapon, but still, I believe it's pretty accurate. I had a 20+ day warrior with exceptional strength and very high skills, and I couldn't kill anybody who wasn't subdued or locked up in an apartment unless I was very lucky with bashes and such. I remember attacking what appeared to be a newly created magicker PC (he cast on me), he had no visible spells on and was unarmed and the fight went something like this:

Code Select Expand


You miss bash on magicker.

You slash magicker very hard.
You solidly slash magicker.
Magicker misses you.

You slash magicker very hard.
You wound magicker with your slash.

You solidly slash magicker.
You slash magicker.
Magicker misses you.

You slash magicker very hard.
Magicker reels from the blow.
You slash magicker.

Magicker flees.

[spawnloser]

Make it so that attacking a subdued person has a chance to hit the subduer too... like 50/50.

[allieday1]

Panic you can't escape..I have gotten that before in trying to flee without the skill. But mainly you will get away from a fight and over the shield wall in a blind run..lol