Brawl code.

[Twisted Minstrel]

Eye-gouging is fun.... Toe-stomping, shin-kicking, groin-kneeing. Might as throw in those dirty moves while we're at it, eh?

[Cutthroat]

For any commands related to brawling like what Maybe42or54 said, there could also be command emotes.

Example:

> bite (opening ^me mouth wide) [shaking ^me head side to side vigorously]

Opening his mouth wide, the hungry brawler bites the short, hairless dwarf in the arm, shaking his head side to side vigorously.

Also, the different attacks could cause different types of damage (more stun loss, more HP loss, stamina loss etc.)

[FantasyWriter]

Very good idea!
I like anything that keeps you from dieing because of a code misunderstanding/mistake.

[Wish]

I move that "brawl" be made into a separate help file of its own, with a explanation given for "brawltest"

[FantasyWriter]

I second the motion.

TIME FOR A POLL!!!

[brytta.leofa]

I'd love to see both crime code and guard/assist code become magickally much smarter in 2.Arm.  I hate having to worry about the OOC (not IC) consequences of combat or magick in public places or near NPC troops.

Clambering onto a scarred baobob table, a crossbow brandished, the obsidian-masked bandit bellows,
 "Hands and knees and heads bowed down! Everybody, down!"
stand [^me fingers bursting into flame as !me turns]
cast 'sul un suk-krath petrol bbq' bandit
You utter a spell, and a scarred baobob table is consumed by a ball of fire!
You are now wanted!
A half-giant soldier of Tektolnes subdues you, despite your attempts to struggle away!
A half-giant soldier of Tektolnes subdues you, despite your attempts to struggle away!
A half-giant soldier of Tektolnes subdues you, despite your attempts to struggle away!

With more intelligent crim-flagging, perhaps the brawl code could someday be merged with normal fighting, such that you could (a) use all normal combat commands, but attempt to stop before you'd hurt your target 'too badly,' and (b) avoid being crim-flagged unless you went too far.

[Mood]

I'd love to see both crime code and guard/assist code become magickally much smarter in 2.Arm.  I hate having to worry about the OOC (not IC) consequences of combat or magick in public places or near NPC troops.

Clambering onto a scarred baobob table, a crossbow brandished, the obsidian-masked bandit bellows,
 "Hands and knees and heads bowed down! Everybody, down!"
stand [^me fingers bursting into flame as !me turns]
cast 'sul un suk-krath petrol bbq' bandit
You utter a spell, and a scarred baobob table is consumed by a ball of fire!
You are now wanted!
A half-giant soldier of Tektolnes subdues you, despite your attempts to struggle away!
A half-giant soldier of Tektolnes subdues you, despite your attempts to struggle away!
A half-giant soldier of Tektolnes subdues you, despite your attempts to struggle away!

With more intelligent crim-flagging, perhaps the brawl code could someday be merged with normal fighting, such that you could (a) use all normal combat commands, but attempt to stop before you'd hurt your target 'too badly,' and (b) avoid being crim-flagged unless you went too far.

I agree. I'd also like to see racial prejudice included - would that militia soldier really give a shit that an elf is getting beaten on by a few Bynners on the side of the street? Doubtful.

[Maso]

I agree. I'd also like to see racial prejudice included - would that militia really give a shit that an elf is getting beaten on by a few Bynners on the side of the street? Doubtful.

Yeh. Our soldiers are strangely and worringly uncorrupt.

[Dan]

Thats what you think.

[brytta.leofa]

Thats what you think.

Heh. I've enjoyed some beautiful and, uh, widely divergent responses to characters in different roles...from PC militia.  (One of them qualifies as a Favorite Arm Moment.)

The fact remains that a Wyvern officer who types "kill rinthi" in the Gaj will probably get smacked down or detained--I mean, assuming that the NPC half-giant soldiers are realllllly buff.

[Gimfalisette]

I agree. I'd also like to see racial prejudice included - would that militia really give a shit that an elf is getting beaten on by a few Bynners on the side of the street? Doubtful.

Yeh. Our soldiers are strangely and worringly uncorrupt.

The ranks of the NPC soldiers are largely filled by very stupid half-giants and humans who will never ever ever rank higher than Private, because they just don't have the decision-making capacity or initiative that would show them worthy of promotion. That's why they treat the Wyvern attacking a 'rinthi just exactly the same as the 'rinthi attacking the Wyvern; they don't have the smarts to make decisions based on anything but a strict set of rules.

PC soldiers are a whole different kind of animal.

[brytta.leofa]

The ranks of the NPC soldiers are largely filled by very stupid half-giants and humans who will never ever ever rank higher than Private, because they just don't have the decision-making capacity or initiative that would show them worthy of promotion. That's why they treat the Wyvern attacking a 'rinthi just exactly the same as the 'rinthi attacking the Wyvern; they don't have the smarts to make decisions based on anything but a strict set of rules.

I can almost buy that argument for half-giants (though I would counter that they tend to be perceptive mimics), but not so much for humans. It doesn't take a very smart person to know on which side his bread's buttered.

I would get a kick out of low-wisdom half-giant NPCs applying different rules than humans, though. :twisted:

[Gimfalisette]

Have seen brawl go wrong again a couple of times lately (really badly wrong sometimes), so just thought I'd bump this so that maybe some folks would be helped out by the tips about how to brawl, what not to do, etc.

[psionic fungus]

The ranks of the NPC soldiers are largely filled by very stupid half-giants and humans who will never ever ever rank higher than Private, because they just don't have the decision-making capacity or initiative that would show them worthy of promotion. That's why they treat the Wyvern attacking a 'rinthi just exactly the same as the 'rinthi attacking the Wyvern; they don't have the smarts to make decisions based on anything but a strict set of rules.

I find this to be a lame excuse for outdated code.

Reputation code could certainly eliminate this OOC anamoly.  Go 2.Arm, Go!

[Rindan]

The brawl code is cute cosmetically, but it really has not teeth.  The brawl code is fine if you just want to take a fool pop shots and fool around.  Real men turn on no save arrest and 'brawl' the old fashion way... with the kill command.

[Roark]

Allow me to add a hint to this list:

Anytime you are brawling using a PC's name, please be sure to keyword that name (i.e. 'key <name>') anytime a NPC (especially a guard) walks into the room.

[Sokotra]

The brawl code is cute cosmetically, but it really has not teeth.  The brawl code is fine if you just want to take a fool pop shots and fool around.  Real men turn on no save arrest and 'brawl' the old fashion way... with the kill command.

I agree... I really liked it when it was first implemented, but something has gotten stale about it.  

I think we should just simply be able to hit each other with fists and use emotes and stuff in taverns.. or anyplace for that matter (as long as it is with fists only) without being arrested or insta-slain.

[manonfire]

I'd like the brawl code to do stun damage on par with unarmed sparring.

I just wanna knock a bitch out without getting crimflagged.

[Rindan]

The brawl code has two big issues.  First, it doesn't do any real damage.  If you get knocked out brawling, you were spaming psi's while banging your head against the wall.  There really is no way to 'win' a brawl as it stands.  It is pretty unsatisfying to see a big ugly mercenary who can kick a Gaj over barehanded not be able to beat a cute little merchant into pulp.

Second, there is no 'stopper' on brawls.  I saw a massive brawl in the Gaj a few months back that lasted for nearly an in game day.  That is a tad over kill.

My solution?  Keep the hit command.  Crank up delay timer on it so that you can easily emote and hit at the same time.  Crank up the stun damage so it is more like fighting unarmed and give a greater advantage to people who know how to fight.  Once someone throws a punch, make it so that you have 3 minutes (+/- 2 minutes so the delay is somewhat random) to stop swinging.  Once 3 minutes (plus or minus some random time) pass, anyone who swings gets a brawl flag.  After a minute or two longer (again, make it semi-random), anyone with a brawl flag gets a crime flag.  Make the timers longer or shorter depending upon the tavern.  The Gaj might have a longer timer while the Barrel has a shorter timer.  The Sanctuary might have a very short timer, and in the Traders you would instantly get a brawling flag.  Anyone who knocks out someone else gets a brawl flag and best likely start fleeing the scene before the militia comes to arrest them.

The idea is this.  You can get into a fight, and it can have consequences.  The longer you fight, the more likely it is that the militia decides you are making a scene and decides to simply arrest everyone involved.  You can still smack someone in the face without much risk of militia instantly jumping in the 'rougher' bars... but if you start a bench clearing brawl that last a few minutes the militia is going to start dragging people away.  If you hurt someone enough during a brawl to knock them out, that is your cue to start running before the militia comes to investigate.

[Maybe42or54]

The brawl code has two big issues.  First, it doesn't do any real damage.  If you get knocked out brawling, you were spaming psi's while banging your head against the wall.  There really is no way to 'win' a brawl as it stands.  It is pretty unsatisfying to see a big ugly mercenary who can kick a Gaj over barehanded not be able to beat a cute little merchant into pulp.

Second, there is no 'stopper' on brawls.

Well, back in my human days, I once attempted to kick this cute little merchants ass with my burly warrior and I got this message, "The cute little merchant is too hurt for you to attack her, if you want to proceed, use the kill command." She was at full life.

On another occasion with the same guy, two guys decided to brawl me and I actually attacked 7 times, 3 on the first cat, and 4 on the second cat, before they were both to hurt for me to continue.

Just a little note.

[Coat of Arms]

The brawl code is cute cosmetically, but it really has not teeth. The brawl code is fine if you just want to take a fool pop shots and fool around. Real men turn on no save arrest and 'brawl' the old fashion way... with the kill command.

That would be awesome if NPC soldiers could subdue you while you were fighting, or if most taverns weren't filled and surrounded with those soldiers. Hard to survive attacking someone when a half-giant and a couple of human soldiers jump in and attack you the second you pop someone upside the head. You die before the delay from attacking is over.

I'd like the brawl code to do stun damage on par with unarmed sparring.

I just wanna knock a bitch out without getting crimflagged.

There's a very good reason why knocking someone out with brawling isn't possible. If you want to kill somebody and you manage to knock them out, they're as good as dead. You can legally subdue someone who's sleeping, and can drag them somewhere for a nice and safe kill. If you could just walk up and brawl somebody until their lights are out, that would be the biggest window for twinking in the game. Imagine killing somebody who then, with their next PC, finds you linkdead in a tavern and decides to take revenge. It'll happen sooner or later.

I think it's fair that you can slap someone around a bit without coded consequences (remember that if they're anybody special it could still cost you dearly), but if you want to beat somebody so bad that they lose cocniousness, you're going to break the law. A decent balance of realism and playability.

Well, back in my human days, I once attempted to kick this cute little merchants ass with my burly warrior and I got this message, "The cute little merchant is too hurt for you to attack her, if you want to proceed, use the kill command." She was at full life.

On another occasion with the same guy, two guys decided to brawl me and I actually attacked 7 times, 3 on the first cat, and 4 on the second cat, before they were both to hurt for me to continue.

That's because it checks for stun damage. Hitting somebody with a brawl attack makes them lose some stun, and a tiny amount of health, usually so little that they instantly recover it and appear to be in excellent condition. They might still have lost 40 stun.


There are some good suggestions in this thread, but the one thing that I think the brawlcode absolutely needs is a change so that you're not immune to brawl attacks while sitting at a bar or table. I've seen that abused so many times, and it makes no sense.

[psionic fungus]

I think you should be -able- to knock someone out in a tavern brawl, but that doing so would give you a large(r) chance of becoming wanted... Just like pulling a knife, bottle, or chair would...

[Coat of Arms]

You can just attack them fully once they become too hurt for you to legally brawl. You'll probably die in the process, but that's because someone decided that taverns should be more guarded than the crown jewels, not actually a flaw in the brawl code.

[staggerlee]

You could always brawl until the code kicks out, and then RP the rest with emotes.  It lacks the punch code gives the brawl, but on the flip side it's more colorful than code.

Keeping in mind that I've never actually used the brawl code  I should add 'start a bar fight' to my todo list.

[Sokotra]

Brawl should be integrated with regular combat.  Using "hit" on someone in a tavern should start up regular combat(sort of), but you'd have to type "hit" each time you wanted to hit someone instead of it just all the sudden sending you and the other brawler into a spam-fest of high-speed combat.  There would be sufficient lag to keep someone from spamming "hit" and the nifty little messages that are used in the brawl code could randomly be thrown in there just like it is now.  It might be cool, also, to have your stamina slowly go down (very slowly) while you are brawling.. like maybe a couple of points per hit.  I would like to see kick and bash and stuff be allowed as well... and of course, when someone got down to "bleeding heavily" or worse, then you would have to type "kill" to continue the "brawl" which may or may not crim-flag you.