You are here, the world is there

[Angela Christine]

Inducting someone new is probably something a lot of leaders see as boring. I know, I've been there. When you go through several PC recruits each month, month after month, it does get tiresome.

Yeah, I've had recruiters spend up to an hour going through the rules and procedures, and other recruiters that spent 5 minutes and then passed the newbie off on another recruit for the rest of the filling in.  While I understand that people who are in recruiter positions are busy and inducting is dull, it seemed really odd to me to have another raw recruit finish the induction.  A recruit can show you wear to sleep, to eat, and so one, but probably won't impart the same mood and emphasis as a senior member of the group.  I think only people that have been with the organization for a few months and have had some actual training on how to deal with inductees should do it, other recruits are more likely to pass on bad habits.  For organizations that have an oath taken, it would be nice if the oath were actually played out rather than just "These are the rules, do you understand?  Good.  OOC: here is the password for the web docs."  Then you are left to look up the docs and imagine that your character took the oath all members supposedly take.  On the other hand, typing through all that crap takes a long time.

I'm going to propose a radical solution I used as a on another MUD where new inductees were required to take a tour of the facilities and learn the rules.  Fasten your seatbelts.

I wrote out a script of all the rules and proceedures I had to cover.  Then I divided it up into sections, so that each section of the script would be covered in a different room of the HQ, and most of the time the stuff covered in the script would relate to activities in that room.

For example, if I were doing the Byn I might plan what I would cover in the latrine room.  I would emphasize how important it is to do chores, point out the (virtual) shovels, sand and straw, and give a brief description of what you are supposed to do on latrine cleaning day, and perhaps throw in some colourful referances to the eye-watering stench.  In the mess I would cover how to get food, the importance of treating the non-military support staff with respect, oocly point out the message board with the schedual, the rule about meeting in the mess at every horn for anouncements, the rule about not staying in the mess all night, and so on.  For every room in the compound I would have a little spiel about the room and the rules and procedures that relate to that room, that way by the time I've covered all the rooms I've also covered all the rules.

But I still found that typing out essentially the same messages over and over every time I gave a tour was time consuming.  The poor newbie was left standing there scratching his ass while I typed out what amounted to a page or two of text as I lead him around the compound, and I'm not a fast typist.  So then I became even more radical, and pre-typed the essential text for each room as a series of small text files  I would go into the room, and then use the "paste file" function of my client to spew out the "essential" text for that room, (using a macro set would do the same thing) and then manually emote, tack on a topical joke du jour, and make sure they understood what I had covered.  Then move onto the next room.  My itinerary looked something like this:

First, get them to follow and take them to the enterance

Room 1, the Enterance
 a.  Welcome recruit, emphasise how lucky they are to have been accepted into this fine organization.
 b.  Paste room01.txt
 c.  Ask for questions.
 d.  Go to next room, the parlor

Room 2, the Parlor
 a.  Smile encouragingly
 b.  paste room02.txt
 c. ask for questions
 d.  go to next room, the kitchen

Room 3, the Kitchen
 a.  Tell 'em they are doing great, or tell them to pay attention.
 b.  paste room03.txt
 c.  ask for questions
 d. etc.

On the one hand, it is poor RP because every recruit gets a couple identical sentances in every room, and even professional tour guides don't always spout off identical spiels every time.  It is starting down the slippery slide to just having bots do the induction.  On the other hand, it lets me cover a large volume of information in under half an hour, and I tried to tone down the identicalness of each tour by bracketing the pasted text with personalized adlibed stuff.  I also consoled myself with the thought that if it were a real organization, they would probably only have a recruiting day once a month, and then cover a bunch of recruits all at once.  Normally recruits show up at bootcamp by the bus full, not one or two every few days.  But since it is a MUD things aren't that sychronized and you have to take your recruits when you get them.

It seemed to work out alright, but that MUD wasn't quite as strict as this one.

AC

[John]

I would like to see a little more history revolving around PCs in the Clan Docs.  Perhaps longer-lived characters could be allowed to add a short 'oral' history of things that might get passed down among family and servants to the website upon their death. (assuming of course, nothing involving current events is given away)

I agree. From the limited docs I've seen there the Imms are actually more then happy to have player history, but it was completely empty. Perhaps some examples of what is likely to be put in the History should be put there.

Also, logs for nobles quite often contain IC info (IMO a log set in the Tor Estate would give away IC info cause not many people go there) perhaps each clan doc could have examples of RP logs that people in the clan could access so they get examples of the type of roleplaying that should occur.

Finally IMO the docs could be made more accessible to people. Perhaps recruiters should be given the username and password so they can then give it out to the new recruits I've been in 4 clans and have only seen the docs for 2 clans.

[Midland]

First off, LoD, I love the letter idea!!!!    

Sometimes you end up in a clan when you didnt expect to end up in that clan. So the advice to get all your ducks in a row in understanding your pc by reading the clan docs before starting your pc doesnt always apply.

Then you are hired into a clan. Yes, you are given clan docs but you just lived 16-30 yrs of your life, or more, being your own person, etc. Is your pc the type of person that things go in one ear and out the other? Would your pc remember ALL there is to do about a clan just because there are OOC docs?  Or would only bits and pieces stick in your pc's mind about what the House does, etc? I know I dont have a computer for a brain in RL and I am still learning things about my job. That was part of the requirement for this job. The ability to accept change and a constant learning process. Would your pc take into account what they saw IC and were told IC by others that were with that clan for longer than you? These things might conflict with the documents. Which would be correct for your pc? Going by what they are told by those long affiliated with the House or dropping to ooc and saying  OOC Ut uh! The docs say.....   Maybe the docs are outdated or someone started a new tradition?

My suggestion was the one where there needed to be more interaction by the imms and maybe programs to show virtual House hunters bringing things in, or crafters making things. Why? Because if you arent reminded of the little things you can take it for granted. Or when someone says that a new unit of such and such is being formed, you might think that hmmmm maybe they werent here before.

I dont think 24/7 is realistic but maybe a RL bi-weekly. Even if it isnt with the imm lead clan leader but the player pc they have overtop of the other pcs/npcs/vpcs sitting down and going over things with their underlings. When a player is basically dumped in a situation and left to do whatever they want, within reason, basically handling things that probably arent their real duties to do, they are going to forget that there are vpcs doing the same thing. Not out of a power hungry, it's all mine attitude but because it was convient to allow that pc to do all that because the jobs needed to get done. Then when that pc steps out of line of what is wanted, then they get to see their superior and reminded of their real place in the scheme of things.  WHICH is fine and IC but then it has to be accepted that the pc will react to how things appear to them.

To avoid that, I really think they need more interaction from their superiors. I do believe that the higher ups (imm run npcs) do need to appear on a regular basis. Even if it's just to walk in, look around, frown at something that's out of place, speak to a vpc that would be in charge, walk out. Sometimes the only time a player might seen a superior is when they are A) in trouble or B) getting promoted or C) the rare appearance to give a new task to accomplish.  I am NOT putting down imms, being snide or in any way trying to say the imms dont do their job. They are VERY busy people, they have a RL and they are humans too. Things can get misunderstood on both ends.

I know that I am horrible about sending in updates because of things being misunderstood on them and I loathe bothering imms. I know they are busy and I dont want to be a burden. But I think it's because I put TOO much into the updates and try to inform on my pc's thought process. I am going to try and work on that, improve keeping my clan imm informed. (I learned that even if it's something NOT about your clan, tell your clan imm because even if it isnt beneficial for the clan, they will try and help you

Because this is also a two way street. So not only does there need to be more interaction from the imms/lead pcs to keep things real, there needs to be reports/updates from the pcs to those imms/lead pcs to keep the communication lines open. I prefer that being done IC but that's just because I am a stubborn snit and I like the rp. Emailing can be alright but in that sometimes people feel the need to explain the whole situation behind what's going on in attempt to make the reasons things are happening, understood.  That puts a burden on the player because IC their pc wouldnt know it but here a higher up in their clan is saying 'this' is why 'that's' happening. Do they bend their IC actions and are they expected to bend their IC actions due to now knowing the OOC reasons behind something?  

I hope that this post wasnt too rambling and it was understandable. Sometimes I think I am making perfect sense to me and my best friend will let me know that I am just flat out confusing the crap out of him.  

[naatok]

I just want to say one thing about this:
You all will be much happier and have more fun in Zalanthas when you learn to worship ME!

*peers around at the sea of angry faces and slowly slinks back to his monkey cage*

On a more serious note:

Like Venomz, I don't see this as a 'real' problem.  The problem, I suppose, comes into being when the PLAYER believes there should be no IC reprocussions for the arrogant actions of his or her PC.

If anything at all should be done about this, perhaps it is in updating the documentation to particularly address this issue.
Players need to understand their characters' place in the grand scheme of things in Zalanthas.  Assuming that PCs are the top of their particular food chain is just unrealistic.  Assuming that staff is out to get you because smack gets laid down IC for inappropriate IC behavior is just another example of thoughtless reactionism.

Personally, I think IC circumstances where a PC gets too big for his or her pants adds to the flavor and realism of Zananthas.  It makes for REAL and BELIEVABLE characters.
Players getting bent out of shape over appropriate IC consequences is probably one of the most frustrating things for staff to have to deal with.

Just because your PC's title is Ma'am or Sir/Lady or Lord, do NOT assume s/he is the end-all, be-all of authority in the organization.

[Anonymous]

Personally, I think IC circumstances where a PC gets too big for his or her pants adds to the flavor and realism of Zananthas.  It makes for REAL and BELIEVABLE characters.

I completely agree.  PCs who have an inflated self-image rock and are really fun to play, especially when your social counterparts are taken aback by it.

But when someone senior to you in your organization comes to chew you out, just roll with it, or plot the death of the senior.   :twisted:

[crymerci]

[edited for brevity]
Basically, players overlook the virtual world when estimating their place in it, and tend to assume themselves much more important than they are. They react accordingly, staff tries to step in to explain why the position is unreasonable, and hard feelings and accusations of being repressed by the staff ensue.

How to remedy this, though? One person suggested having staff members play more NPCs, but that's not a tenable suggestion - if we took on enough staff to ensure that a clan be represented 24/7, we'd have no one left playing. Scripted atmospheres, similarly, take up a lot of time and effort.

Traditionally, this has been addressed by documentation - descriptions which try to convey to the players the size of the clan, and its place in the world. Should we be focusing on making those documents more thorough - or is there some better solution?

I think that documentation is definitely the way to go, along with an orientation of sorts when applying for such a character, or at some point before entering society. What should be included?
--A rough outline of the numbers of various ranks of nobles/templars/agents actively at work (virtually) in the organization.
--A clear outline of the hierarchy, and explanations of who reports to whom, including both PCs and NPCs.
--Regular meetings (or at least email exchanges, if meetings aren't possible) with the boss player/imm in question.
--A list of do's and don't's, regardless of how basic they may seem, definitely including examples of things you would have free rein on vs. things you would need to consult a higher-up on.
--A general idea of the House's relations with other Houses. Some people seem to think that just because they have a vendetta against Lady Fussypants Fale, that their House and House Fale are on bad terms.
--A goal, or list of possible goals, that their PC might take on as projects, if they wish to please their seniors and do well.
--Time and imm interest permitting, occasional reports on Senate decisions, VNPC marriages and alliances, and other matters which would affect inter-house relations would be nice. Ideally, however, it would be nice if players could shape the world's history as much as possible.

I am ambivalent about the idea of promotions within Houses. On one hand, it gives players incentive to accomplish things, and helps prevent stagnation. On the other hand, we already have people saying that they don't think some nobles and templars are deserving of their roles, and I think this would magnify that feeling. For example, you get someone who seems to be an effective leader and good roleplayer stuck at the bottom of the ladder, while someone who is generally seen as ineffective is given a promotion. Since the rest of us (both ICly and OOCly) don't know the reasons behind such decisions, there are always going to be questions about such decisions.

[Kalden]

I still think a world events announcement would really help for players to realize that they are not all there is to the world, and it doesn't seem to me like it would be that hard. I'd find it rather fun to write up events and help direct the path of a world, and develop an interesting metaplot(I'm defining a metaplot as large, worldwide plots involving lots of people).

The world events and npcs should and could be a tool of the imms to direct interesting things for players to react to. Players can have plenty of influence, but I think what Sanvean was saying is that they shouldn't really direct the world singlehandedly. A Gamemaster and more outside, wide encompassing plots can't really hurt, can it? A lot of these events don't even have to have real coded effects, they just add some thematic things to think about and perhaps gossip about.

I'll list out some examples of events that could be written up:

-Debate rages in the Senate of the issue of ____(cleaning up the 'rinth, spice trade, food concerns, one of the Houses ect).
-A plains fire rages across the Northlands.
-The tribe of ___ visits the city to trade and exchanges stories of ____.
-A large group of gith raiders attack the farm village on the outskirts of Allanak, raping, pillaging, and causing concern over food.
-An official in the Allanak City Guards begins to speak of dealing with cleaning the Labyrinth, causing concern that spreads fast among the low-lifes.

Pretty much anything an Imm wants to happen but is not happening from players could be done by events. It could just be whenever an imm feels like using the world to set up something.

Also, seeing the numbers from a census would just be really satisfying, even if they aren't completely accurate. It makes you feel like this stuff actually is there, and it matters, instead of just saying "lots". Every clan should know how many members it has too, if possible.

[Anonymous]

You know, Kalden, I really like that idea as long as players are clear that some of them may very well be virtual events for them to talk or argue about, but the necessary objects/NPCs may not and may never be added to represent a given tribe.

But it would be very cool.  Just like a weekly summary of gossip or official happenings thrown together in a quick tavern board post.

[Swordsman]

AC: the pre-typing idea is something that I think quite a few people do (though not always when inducting a new recruit). I don't see anything wrong with it myself as long as it's done OOCly fairly (e.g. the newbie has time to ask questions between all the pre-typed text). People can usually read faster than most people can type, so no problem IMO. And it does help to standardise things, even if it's just the recruits you induct personally. To me, loyalty is a very important kind of concept in this game setting, because it's a basically harsh and untrustworthy world (rare = precious). So, an oath of loyalty is definitely something that should be played out and carefully thought about by the clan imm/leaders IMO.

Getting too big for your/their boots (CRW and others, I think): I agree that this makes RP and the game world in general interesting. I have a problem, though, when this kind of thing happens due to OOC ignorance (or whatever) rather than someone playing it out because they mean to (ICly). Getting too big for your boots is indeed something that can be very cool to RP around (and needn't always end in death, hehe), but if it comes from OOC, it just comes across as silly IMO. Just my take.

Swordsman

[Tlaloc]

I still think a world events announcement would really help for players to realize that they are not all there is to the world, and it doesn't seem to me like it would be that hard. I'd find it rather fun to write up events and help direct the path of a world, and develop an interesting metaplot(I'm defining a metaplot as large, worldwide plots involving lots of people).

Actually, this happens. Only, it happens in game, and from the eyes of the locals by getting posted on rumor boards, talking NPC's, and various other means. The danger about an OOC blanket announcement of whats going on is that its OOC. Its a giveaway. It also lessens the impact, I think for the character, depending on his background and his location in the world.

If your character is in the boonies out in Red Storm, East, then how does he know about the Senates debates in Allanak? Would a Tuluki care if the Senate is debating forcing everyone to wear buttons with large bicycles on them? Would an Allanaki care if halflings were on the rise in the Northlands?

The answer to both of those is of course "maybe, it depends on the character". But I think its better for characters (or the players behind the characters) decide on whats best for the character, when presented by things in-game. Rumors might, or might not be right...and they're always flavored by the person that tells them.

It also removes the fun of the discovery of the metaplot by the players - if we flat out tell you that Bynners have been spontaneously combusting at random, you wouldn't even have to log into the game to find out. You'd just know, OOC.

However, I do see you point about having more metaplot-type-things posted. Its a good idea.

Just a few thoughts on metaplots.

-Tlaloc

[Kalden forgets to log in]

Actually, this happens. Only, it happens in game, and from the eyes of the locals by getting posted on rumor boards, talking NPC's, and various other means.

That is very heartening. I'm a newbie, but I've been to too many rp muds where the imms just throw the players into the world and expect them to develop everything on their own, without the vast resources of the game world and npcs. A nice thing about this mud is that it seems like the characters have developed the good habit of taking their own initiative in roleplaying, which is precious.

The danger about an OOC blanket announcement of whats going on is that its OOC

You're right, and it isn't nice to give away OOC things that people wouldn't know about IC. I didn't suggest it, but I was thinking that it would probably be best if these were local, and only let people who would hear about this sort of thing know. A nobleman would know what's happening in the Senate, for example, or a Merchant would know about merchant events. But that is where it gets harder to do, giving everyone their own little events. Perhaps just dividing them by regioin would work, and only posting things that would be more readily apparent. If an imm wants more people to know, then they could broadcast it as a rumor. if they don't, keep it secretive.

It seems to me that for the most part, the Zalanthas world and people are static and reactionary to what the players do. With a more living, growing world, it leaves more things for players to react to and to get involved in. Just because a player in the Arm of the Dragon doesn't want to clean up the 'Rinth doesn't mean a superior doesn't want to. Or, just because there isn't a halfing rallying together the halflings doesn't mean they can't decide to outright raid the city of Tuluk. Or, just because there isn't a player gith rallying together gith tribes to attack Luirs Outpost doesn't mean it can't happen, or it shouldn't. And contracts for the Byn don't necessarily need to come from players either. I'd like to see the imms change the world a bit to their thematic liking over time, especially since time moves so fast on Armageddon.

That sort of stuff is a lot of hard work though, and I don't blame anyone for not wanting to do it.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

If an imm wants more people to know, then they could broadcast it as a rumor. if they don't, keep it secretive.

I'd like to see the imms change the world a bit to their thematic liking over time, especially since time moves so fast on Armageddon.

That sort of stuff is a lot of hard work though, and I don't blame anyone for not wanting to do it.

They do tho. :lol:

[crymerci]

Ok, I've thought about this some more, and I'm not sure that this is a problem you can completely eradicate. Yes, docs will help, but I think a large part of where players get their perceptions of what's appropriate is from other players.

If someone was made to bow on threat of death when they played Joe Commoner, they are more likely to repeat that behavior when they play Joseph Templar. If you've heard that story about how Jane Borsail enslaved handsome men who she favored, then you might, when playing a noble, think enslaving commoners is ok.

There's no way the imms can police what every player does, all the time. Things are going to slip by and become common practice. Hopefully with more docs the right practices will be propagated, but people will still make mistakes.