New Player's barrier to entry

[Riev]

So, I've made about 5 characters on Armageddon so far, and I've really enjoyed the game, but so far my last few characters have died within 3 hours of gameplay to older players coming up to me and outright killing me.

I understand the world of Zalanthas is supposed to be harsh, but in this time where the MUD is getting more and more people, new players need to be given a slight chance.

If you're expecting new players to stick with the game to make it more interesting, give us a chance. Talk to us before you kill us, let us have a chance before you outright slay us for reasons unknown. I'd rather learn what I did was wrong, and THEN die, rather than be slain for no reason and learning nothing.

It is very discouraging, but I do not know if anything can be done. I just wanted it out there.

[spawnloser]

Thing is, bad things happen.  We've all lost a character for one reason or another in one way or another that we think was poorly done on the other person's part.

Things to keep in mind...

1 - Unfortunately, the first thing is to keep in mind what situations you were in when killed.  Where you outside alone?  Were you in the 'Rinth alone?  Were you poking fun at people?  Were you pissing people off?  Try to isolate things you could have done differently and not do them again.

2 - There is always a possibility that the killings were IC for the other person.  Some clans have interesting attitudes about certain things.

3 - These experiences teach you something.  First, that life is cheap on Zalanthas.  Second, how you can become a better mudder and a better RPer, since the cause for these experiences are likely a combination of someone more familiar with the game and more familiar with the world.

4 - In the instance that these killings all happened to be done by jerks and twinks, hey, it happens.  I'm sorry.

Please, try again.  Try not going outside the gates, and try being nice to authority figures (like coweringly so, it makes them feel important, and that means these people with more power than most are less likely to turn those powers against you).  Get a job and learn more about the game in both OOC and IC fashions.  This is a dangerous world our characters live in, so treat it as such.  Have your character make friends in game, which most people would want to do anyway, because friends make it easier to survive.

I wish you good luck with your next character.

[Marauder Moe]

Very true.  Killing a new character who (probably) hasn't been around long enough to even deserve a death like that isn't cool.

It's not an old player vs. new player thing, though.  Very often those silent killers are newbies themselves who may not completely realize the point of the game yet.  Also, if you play in the 'rinth (Labyrinth), those silent killers may be NPC's.  :wink:

Anyway, keep on slogging on, and wear those dead PCs on your sleeve like badges of honor.

[Riev]

Well, to keep in line with the whole IC thing, I will say that I was confronted by a magicker, and let live under the rule of "tell me what goes on in the cities". I went out to the tablelands, and the person outright killed me with no mention as to why.

I'm not asking for ultimate fairness, I've learned already. But at least tell the person what they DID to deserve it. I don't know if I was killed for not going back to town, or for invading the tablelands, or what.

How can I be a better player if I don't get any feedback from PCs?

And as a side note: I'm not going to play this game, as a first time, without leaving city walls. I've tried it, and there aren't that many people around, I've looked. This isn't a flame post, its a gripe about how much of a barrier it is to new players, when they're 2 hours old and killed for no reason. Way to make it an elitist club

[Marauder Moe]

Oh, so it's not like some random person just came up and offed you.  You got a fair amount of interaction first.  Well, in that case, I'm afraid I have to disagree with you.  Villains explaining themselves to victims mostly just happens in the movies.  Your lesson learned, though, is to have your future characters be more mistrustful of magickers.  :wink:

[mansa]

Oh, so it's not like some random person just came up and offed you.  You got a fair amount of interaction first.  Well, in that case, I'm afraid I have to disagree with you.  Villains explaining themselves to victims mostly just happens in the movies.  Your lesson learned, though, is to have your future characters be more mistrustful of magickers.  :wink:

Are you serious?

That's the most elitest and jerk thing to say.

[mansa]

Well, to keep in line with the whole IC thing, I will say that I was confronted by a magicker, and let live under the rule of "tell me what goes on in the cities". I went out to the tablelands, and the person outright killed me with no mention as to why.

I'm not asking for ultimate fairness, I've learned already. But at least tell the person what they DID to deserve it. I don't know if I was killed for not going back to town, or for invading the tablelands, or what.

How can I be a better player if I don't get any feedback from PCs?

And as a side note: I'm not going to play this game, as a first time, without leaving city walls. I've tried it, and there aren't that many people around, I've looked. This isn't a flame post, its a gripe about how much of a barrier it is to new players, when they're 2 hours old and killed for no reason. Way to make it an elitist club

I highly suggest to make a warrior character, and to join the Byn.

You don't have to be a "WARRIOR", but the skills that a warrior has is great help to new people.  You can be a spy, a merchant, an explorer.

The Byn is a good group of players, and they usually help people out.  They are a rough-and-tumble group of mercenaries, who sell their skills for coin.

Otherwise, I highly suggest to avoid the 'rinth, and going outside without an adventure buddy.  Try and find one.  You can usually find them in the taverns.

[Gimfalisette]

Or just have your future characters be more mistrustful of ANYONE.

Also, there are plenty of characters around in the cities at peak time. There may not be any PCs in the taverns in the five minutes it takes you to walk around and look inside them all, but I guarantee you there are PCs around. Try doing a bit of tavern idling and see who comes in...it might take 20 minutes, but if it's peak time, you're bound to see someone.

(And yes, that's a whole 20 minutes you can't advance your character's coded skills at all. But it's 2 hours of your character's life that he probably does want to sit in a bar and relax.)

[Marauder Moe]

Oh, so it's not like some random person just came up and offed you.  You got a fair amount of interaction first.  Well, in that case, I'm afraid I have to disagree with you.  Villains explaining themselves to victims mostly just happens in the movies.  Your lesson learned, though, is to have your future characters be more mistrustful of magickers.  :wink:

Are you serious?

That's the most elitest and jerk thing to say.

I can see why what I said might come across that way.  Still, am I wrong?  Does every player owe every character he/she kills an explanation?  Do they owe any character killed an explanation?  I've killed PCs without explanation.  I've killed PCs without warning.  Don't get me wrong, I had good reason each time, but I didn't go out of my way to let my victim know what it was.

Also, as I tried to point out, just because you don't get direct feedback like

Code Select Expand

Laughing maniacly, the tall, black-goateed man says to you, in sirihish:
  "You fool!  If only you hadn't wandered into my magick ternak field you'd be safe.   But now that you've seen my giant man-eating ternaks, you must DIE!" doesn't mean you can't learn a lesson from that death.  Like I said, in this case, the best one is probably "don't trust magickers".

[mansa]

Moe:

No, you're not wrong.  But it's still elitest.

Your post above mine's excellent.  It explains a bit.. actually it explains a lot.

But..still.

[Seeker]

I appreciate Riev's input.  

It might be string of bad luck for him, and he might be over-reaching his "safety-zone" with his characters, as they "young" and are not likely very skilled.

His point was that his first five characters have been killed by what seems like other PCs.  He is right, almost by definition, that the players of these murderers are going to be longer-term players in the game than him.  He's new.

I'm hoping that if I ran into him, I could make it more interesting for him.  Probably would still die, Riev.  Sorry.  It might take several weeks longer, though.


Seeker

[Lizzie]

1) Very sorry to hear about your unpleasant first experiences, it doesn't usually go like that.
2) Sometimes those other characters killing you with no RP are just NPCs that are coded to attack anyone who gets close to their territory.
3) The Tablelands are a *known* territory of extremely territorial elven tribes, and very far from "friendly" faces for most humans.
3) A magicker letting you live is a BIG deal, and it sounds like you got some great RP out of that.

Items #2 and #3 are in the docs.

Suggestions: If you want to continue playing the "adventurer" type rather than the city-bound type, join the Byn or any of the Great Merchant Houses (Salarr, Kurac, Kadius). The Byn is a Mercenary company. Kadius and Salarr hire hunters who can work together rather than riding out solo, and Kurac has its own army called the Fist that works together to protect their holdings, including the trade routes between cities.

Any of these clans will provide you with the opportunities to explore, but with other people who can teach you where to go, where not to go, who to be nice to, who to run from, etc. etc. etc.

L. Stanson

[Riev]

I would love to join the Byn, or the Great Merchant Houses.

I tried with my 3rd character, and I've asked PCs around town if they have seen any of the Byn/Kurac/Kadius etc, they usually say they can't find them, and that they haven't seen anyone in a long time.

Instead of sitting in the tavern and waiting so much time, I would rather go outside and spend time out there where there is a lot to do.

I'm really having trouble finding PCs from Kadius/Salarr/Byn, and it's hard for me to find anyone right now who isn't a magicker. I don't want to spend days and days in the city trying to find a contact for a clan, because this feels like it's sort of a waste of time I could spend having a lot of fun and interaction outside.

There really seem to be all magickers or super-powered PCs that I have run into.

I really want to thank all the people who posted above, these are great responses I will try to integrate into my play. Please continue to suggest anything I can do.

[mansa]

Instead of sitting in the tavern and waiting so much time, I would rather go outside and spend time out there where there is a lot to do.

I'm really having trouble finding PCs from Kadius/Salarr/Byn, and it's hard for me to find anyone right now who isn't a magicker. I don't want to spend days and days in the city trying to find a contact for a clan, because this feels like it's sort of a waste of time I could spend having a lot of fun and interaction outside.

I thought this should be repeated.

[Lizzie]

Aha! I have a possibly perfect solution for you, that will help you make use of (and improve) a monumentally important skill while searching for interaction.

Instead of just hanging out in the bars waiting for an employer to come along and hire you, spend a little time checking out the IC boards in the taverns for posts saying the various clans are hiring. In those posts (which your character isn't READING, heh - he's overhearing gossip, don't forget!), you'll usually find a short description and/or name of the hiring person.

Once you get that, you can RP (using the think command and emotes showing concentration if you want) using the Way to find their minds.

Even if you fail in finding anyone's mind with the "contact" skill, it's excellent practice and will make it MUCH easier to find them and communicate with them once you do, later on.

You can use these people to "practice" your contact and psi skill, while at the same time having a genuine need to do so ICly. And the best part, is that you don't have to be sitting in a tavern to try them. You could ride somewhere, stop, try one name. If you don't hit paydirt, ride a little more until your stun points return to normal and try another name. Or go shopping. Or exploring the city you're in. Or - just hanging out at a tavern if you don't feel like wandering that day.

The beauty of this idea, is that it doesn't matter if you find anyone or not, because OOCly you get the satisfaction of knowing that you were codedly productive while attempting to create an IC storyline for your character.

L. Stanson

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

Lizzie's idea is a good one. Make a flexible character, a human warrior or ranger, for example. Then check the IC boads to see which clans are active or available, then contact whoever's hiring.
I also just wanted to add that it seems like you've had particularly bad luck. Zalanthas is a harsh world, yes, but it's not really dog-eat-dog, where 'old' players bully the 'new' players. If you can join up with an active clan, you should be able to have some meaningful interaction with these older players.

[askaran]

...What is you doin!!!
Why you goin out into the tablelands?
you is new and should not be going in places with Desert-elves and carru and some other really nasty nasties!....
im done text yelling so ill give some advice.
Make a warrior or a ranger... Join tha Byn.....cuz it makes you a better fighter and the Byn is way coolness. And then once you get a grasp on the game make a rinther..its that simple

[Riev]

Well, Askaran's idiocy aside...

I will look to see if I can join the Byn or the Kuraci if I can find an NPC anywhere.... but there really are not that many people around lately... so it probably won't be easy.

[Bogre]

I once died within a couple hours of starting a char, when I wasn't even a newbie. Had just joined a clan, and was sitting with another PC, and he just outright killed me, albeit with some speech/combat RP, but to what felt to me very outta the blue. I thought he had just pk'd me for no reason, but after emailing the imms it turns out he had an IC reason (probably collected corpses, hehe, for some nefarious purpose. )

So don't let it get you too down, we've all been there. Keep plugging.

[Riev]

Yah I assure you, I'm going to keep plodding on. I have a friend that plays and its something we can do and talk about together, its just been frustrating with the AIM conference this week so my apps take extra time to get through too. Combine that with seemingly senseless killing, and it just gets frustrating.


Honestly, I just want to learn the MUD and whatnot before 2.Arm comes out. =)

[Cenghiz]

Sorry I have to YELL..

What were you doing with a new character in tablelands? I sometimes fear going there with my 10-day-old mediocrely-branched magickers because there you probably find:

1. Desert elves. Tablelands are not exclusively d-elf lands. Human tribes also live there. Both are bad in the same way. If you're hunting in their land, it's like you're stealing their potential food.

2. Magickers... A magicker can slay/incapacipate in seconds and it's a good chance they'll try if you do anything agreessive or see them chanting. No magicker wants to be known as a magicker and be forced away from cities to the whole eternity.

3. Carru. They do bash.. Those stingy antlers do the hurt-work really good. Sometimes they may even manage to kill experienced magickers.

4. Gith. Gith 0wn.

4. All of the above.. You can meet d-elf magickers with carru pets and gith allies, which's the worst of all.

Joke aside, if you don't want to be killed, don't go to places where you'll be killed without being experienced. If you can't kill a mere scrab, going far west into tarantulas is stupid. If you have enough trouble with a hawk, don't let any tembo near you. If you're not able to kill one single raptor, going to far east is simple suicide. If you're inexperienced, NPC killing in 'rinth won't give you the necessary experience. It will give you death. The list can be expanded.. But the main idea is; you must creep before you can fly. You must grow your skills and become good in warriorly, rangerly... or.. err.. pickpocketly arts before you try the next step.

[Riev]

1. Desert elves. Tablelands are not exclusively d-elf lands. Human tribes also live there. Both are bad in the same way. If you're hunting in their land, it's like you're stealing their potential food.

2. Magickers... A magicker can slay/incapacipate in seconds and it's a good chance they'll try if you do anything agreessive or see them chanting. No magicker wants to be known as a magicker and be forced away from cities to the whole eternity.

3. Carru. They do bash.. Those stingy antlers do the hurt-work really good. Sometimes they may even manage to kill experienced magickers.

4. Gith. Gith 0wn.

4. All of the above.. You can meet d-elf magickers with carru pets and gith allies, which's the worst of all.

I assure you, 1 hasn't been a problem because I try to be careful. 2 is by far my biggest concern, but I almost killed the last magicker that attacked me with a 0-day character so I laughed pretty hard at that. I've NEVER attacked a Carru because I'm not completely retarded. 4, the only time I've seen a gith is when someone FORCED me to, and 4 has... not really happened yet...

[Nao]

I'm sorry you got killed, and I know of a few players that were completely new to the game and turned away because of kills that were even more 'out of the blue' - like entering the game for the first time and getting killed on the spot without even leaving the dormitory. While occasions like this seem to be rare,  you can always email the imms if you think someone killed you without a good IC reason. That guy I'm talking about should have mailed the imms but didn't and left instead

Anyway, I'd suggest playing in Allanak, not because of the whole "Tuluk sucks"-attitude, but because it seems to be the most populated area currently . Tuluk seems to be pretty low and the smaller outposts are always lower on players than the large cities.

Sit around and try to find a job. If you meet a PC, ask around who's hiring and join a clan. I don't think you need to look for the Byn or Salarr or Kadius only, since you don't really know which of them is active and who isn't, so flexibility is probably the better option for the start.

While running about outside may be tempting, you're also a lot more likely to get killed than inside a city. Be extremely careful if you meet someone outside, chances are that they won't hesistate to harm you.

[Sagitarius]

Post on the IC character boards that there was someone looking to join "XXXXXXX" Describe yourself, maybe what you said. What you think others thought of you. Do this if you don't have any luck finding someone to hire you? Try the way. Try hanging out at these organizations homes.

Dieing happens frequently. There are NPC's in the city who will mess you up... swiftly. You will get to adventure with one of the houses or the byn. Just realise that even though YOU want to adventure right now, you should spend the first few hours of your character getting them into a nice position to explore safely.

Other hints. If you do decide to just explore, always scan. Keep your eyes open so that you don't get jumped by a nasty. Plus it makes it harder to fall down holes. Currently I'm on my second longest lived character with a total of 8 hours. Most of mine lasted about 2-3 hours I think.

[jstorrie]

My current PC is constantly trying to find recruits for a newbie-friendly clan, so I think you've just been unlucky. Don't give up.

ps. don't call your fellow players idiots, dude.

[Rindan]

The tablelands is a rough place to start.  You really need to be on your toes... and then some.  Even for a crusty old vet like me who knows the area, the table lands posses a great deal of danger.

I know others have already said this, but if you want something a little less harsh, try the wilds outside of Tuluk.  In particular, to the east and south of Tuluk you have a fair diversity of tasty critters a few challenges, and you have easy access to a city.  When you are tired of the wastes, you can always wander back to the Sanctuary tavern and kick your heels up.

An alternative, if you are dead set on the Table Lands area, try joining House Kurac.  If you can't find someone in Luir's Outpost to let you in, drop a line to the clan imm and ask where/when Kurac is active so that you can join.

Finally, if you just want to get a feel for the game, get neck deep into the action, stomp around the wilderness, and be surrounded by other players, I suggest the Byn.  The Byn is very newbie friendly, yet it often has a pile of experienced players to show the ropes due to it being such a fun and active clan.  The Byn is a great place to learn the game mechanics, make some friends, and put a little meat on your bones.  Further, if you don't like it, you can always quit.  I would give them a try before quitting out of frustration.

If you are dead set on playing in the Tablelands, I can offer up a few suggestions that might make life easier.

1)  Assume every player (and most NPCs) you see in the wilderness is looking to kill you.  That isn't to say you can't interact with people, just be paranoid.  Before moving into the same area as someone else, shout at them and ask if they want company.  Try and show them that you are not aggressive.  If they attack you or (especially) if they start casting spells at you, don't think about it, run.  It is pretty easy to escape in Armageddon if you do it early.

2)  Realize that the tablelands has territories that are 'owned'.  If you start seeing lots of Gith, it is safe to assume you are moving in on their territory.  Don't do it.  The same goes for elves.  It is pretty safe to assume that any elf you see in the wilderness is a tribal elf, and therefor thinks of you as prey.  Avoid the buggers like the plague.  Peaceful interactions with tribal elves near or on their territory is always dangerous.

3)  The best way to learn how to play in that area is to make a desert elf.  You probably don't have the karma for it as a new players, but you can special app for it.  Drop a message asking which elven tribes are active and you should get some helpful responses and maybe a person or two who can help you with an application.  Special applications take some time, but you can keep playing normal characters while you wait.

Don't give up yet.  At the very least, try the Byn before throwing in the towel.  Try experiencing an active and exciting clan like the Byn at least once before deciding that Armageddon is not for you.

[Riev]

Well first off, to  jstorrie, I'm not askaran's biggest fan after reading the majority of his posts, and I'm not privvy to taking anyone that posts with that kind of idiocy very seriously.

Otherwise, all great ideas, I guess I just learned the north, so starting in Tuluk or Luir's just seems more familiar. I attribute most of my unluckiness to the fact that not many people play during my hours, and alot of people are playing magickers because the world is ending.

Don't get me wrong, by "Tablelands" I don't mean "Running into Gith"... I hardly go south of the oasis, and never move too far into the dusty sands. I'm usually rather careful, and offer things at the oasis, I just keep running into Dunestalkers and sorcerors and crap that really gets my goat. I'm going to spend pretty much all day tomorrow standing at the Byn gates in Tuluk and wishing up to see if there ARE any Byn around because its driving me bonkaahs

[Jherlen]

When I was running a hunter clan in Tuluk long ago (long before all the complaints about magicker over were being given voice), what I always told new recruits was this: stay out of the tablelands if you want to live. Without fail, the recruits that heeded this advice lived, those that didn't died much faster.

The Tuluki grassland and Tuluki scrub is a much, much nicer and safer place to frolic, if you can avoid the bahamets. Work your ranger skills up on things like gurth, duskhorn, and kylori. Once you have 10 or 20 days under your belt, THEN you can think about running around elf territory. If you want.

[Nao]

. I'm going to spend pretty much all day tomorrow standing at the Byn gates in Tuluk and wishing up to see if there ARE any Byn around because its driving me bonkaahs

Don't. I'm pretty sure that the northern branch of the Byn is NPC only right now.

Your best bet for a clan would probably be Allanak, I got the impression that Tuluk is pretty dead when it comes to that... But since you said you wanted to stick around the north, you could also go to Luirs and try to join Kurac there. I know there's at least one officer around on a regular basis, plus a bunch of people that may or may not have the authority to hire you, but will be able to introduce you to someone who can and with whom you can interact in the meantime.

Good luck.

[Gimfalisette]

Travel to Allanak and join the Byn there. Bynners don't care where your character is from, and most 'Nakki characters will (ultimately, once they sneer at tattoos if you have them) also not care where your character is from. Just make sure to follow the rules of hanging out in Allanak (bow to templars and nobles, don't commit crimes, don't act like you're spying for the north, etc.) and you'll be OK. If you're in Allanak, it should be really easy to find a Byn sergeant and get joined up.

[ale six]

...most 'Nakki characters will (ultimately, once they sneer at tattoos if you have them) also not care where your character is from. Just make sure to follow the rules of hanging out in Allanak (bow to templars and nobles, don't commit crimes, don't act like you're spying for the north, etc.) and you'll be OK. If you're in Allanak, it should be really easy to find a Byn sergeant and get joined up.

I beg to differ, northerners in Allanak can have a pretty hard time of it, especially if they're tattooed Tulukis. I've seen periods in the past where anybody with a northern accent who was unlucky enough to meet a templar got the "Northern spy!! To the pit/arena/jail with you!!"... even if these people worked for a merchant house as hunters.

So beware xenophobia and avoid the Trader's, avoid fancy places, and walk on eggshells around anybody with authority (this is a smart thing to do if you're in the Byn anyway).

Luckily these days you can learn to change your accent with time, and as Gimf said, the Byn won't care where you're from, and within there, at least, you'll probably become accepted eventually.

[Nao]

I beg to differ, northerners in Allanak can have a pretty hard time of it, especially if they're tattooed Tulukis. I've seen periods in the past where anybody with a northern accent who was unlucky enough to meet a templar got the "Northern spy!! To the pit/arena/jail with you!!"... even if these people worked for a merchant house as hunters.

*grins*

I remember my northern hunter getting a  jade cross tattoed on her forehead in the brightest green ink available by a templar before he let her go. It was hilarious.

[John]

I beg to differ, northerners in Allanak can have a pretty hard time of it, especially if they're tattooed Tulukis. I've seen periods in the past where anybody with a northern accent who was unlucky enough to meet a templar got the "Northern spy!! To the pit/arena/jail with you!!"... even if these people worked for a merchant house as hunters.

I've played Tulukis in Allanak without this, you just have to be VERY careful on how you play. If you're unwilling to bow or show deference to those in charge, you'll probably get killed. However I wouldn't recommend it for  a newbie.