The GDB

[Rhyden]

First off, I'm not venting, I'm not complaining and I'm certainly not trying to hate on the GDB. For me, it's fun to read and see everyone's opinions, suggestions, and arguments.

But...

I see many old topics revive and resurface with similar questions and similar answers. Sometimes that's not the case. Sometimes there's new answers to new questions or new answers to old questions. Some players have great, elaborate answers that everybody agrees with. Some players have great elaborate answers that nobody agrees with. Sometimes a staff member will give their input into a topic. Sometimes the staff members' input will be solid information anyone can use as an answer for any instance in Armageddon. Sometimes not.

I'm not saying there should or shouldn't be a GDB but since there is one, I'm going to take the hypothetical route of 'what if there wasn't'.

Would there be any difference? Would it be better? Worse?

Does the GDB help? Does it really improve everything about Armageddon?

[Moofassa]

You're ridiculous. Of course it does.

Newbie help. Suggestions/Improvements. I could go on. But it's just too ridiculous.

[Mudder]

I'm glad there is a GDB. When I was just a wee noob, I would be affraid to do something icly being affraid of getting the wrath from someone oocly, so my alternative would be to ask it on the GDB, and get a few opinions on how they would handle it. Which in the end, really helped me out alot.

[Rhyden]

Sure, the GDB is great for newbie help. So are helpers.

But how has the GDB helped you out since then? I just see prejudices and opinions that the majority might follow.

Moofassa: What was that? A week?

[jhunter]

I've seen some interesting ideas come up on the GDB. I've also seen and taken part in the discussion of different concepts that exist within the game and I think it has helped me to see some other points of view on certain subjects. I'm very happy the GDB exists and I think alot more positive comes about because of its existence than negative.
There's always going to be some negative aspects involved with anything.
You just have to accept it, take the bad along with the good and try not to focus on the bad so much.

[Folker]

In a way, GDB allows each player to be a part of a more close knit community. Understanding that while characters may be spaced apart by distance, classes, social differences, etc. The players themselves are still part of an interesting community. This ... I believe ... is comforting somewhat.

[Sanvean]

The GDB helps me

tgather feedback on changes, plotlines, etc.
provide information to players.
learn what people are thinking about.
gather new ideas and suggestions.
identify problem areas in the game.
get a sense of many of you as individuals.
coordinate getting submissions from players.

[Fathi]

A lot of clans would go nuts without the clan boards.

[Agent_137]

isn't worth it.

[Anonymous]

I liked the old gdb better in terms of the way in-game information seemed to be kept secret which I think benefits people more than just telling them a lot of stuff outright.

That has nothing to do with the change of message board code, though, and is really just a community thing that was inevitable.

The GDB does foster more of a sense of community, though, and that is a really good thing in the long term for the survival of arm.

[Jherlen]

The GDB's biggest problem is negativity between posters (something we are ALL guilty of), as well as people pushing their own personal viewpoints, likes, dislikes, complaints, etc. farther than they need to be pushed. Sometimes I think some threads over controversial topics just result in shouting matches, where players on one side hope they can spew more posts in favor of their argument than the players on the other side.

As a creative outlet for players, I think the GDB works well. I have often been exposed to ideas and thoughts on the GDB that I would not have otherwise had, and these have improved my play. It would be sad if there was no GDB to discuss topics, and all the information we had to go on was what can be found in the docs and edicts from staff. The GDB serves as an effective knowledge base in this matter as well.

Where I think we go wrong is when people try and push their agenda (and yes, everyone has an agenda of some sort) as fact, and won't open up to consider others' opinions. This starts back-and-forth debates which can go on for pages. A nice rule for the GDB might be that you are allowed one post and one rebuttal per thread. If you can't make your point to other people by then, you probably never will.

I also don't know if I like the GDB being used as a tool to wave the flag of player mandate about policy/code change like some people try and do. Too many people seem to try and use it as some kind of airhorn to complain about code changes or policies, and will sometimes cite majority of posters' agreement as reasons why something HAS to be done NOW NOW NOW. Sometimes this is accompanied by a poll, and sometimes not. Sometimes its fueled by a respected "trump card" poster weighing in and having three or four people reply "I agree with Amos!" because the post was long, sounded smart, and had Amos' name attached. In all cases debates like that get long, annoying to read, complex, derailed, and after 4 or 5 pages only a few people are still reading and responding. This is why, while I certainly hope player opinion is considered and sampled, I wouldn't want and wish people wouldn't expect the GDB to be the major vehicle for getting their complaints about the game dealt with.

All in all I hope we keep it and think eliminating it would be a major backward step.

[flurry]

It's especially good for newbies who may not have played an RPI before.  As a new player, I found a lot of the roleplay discussion useful, though I think it's important to take others' opinions with a grain of salt.

It's not just good for newbies though.  A lot of good ideas have been generated through GDB discussion.

It has its flaws, and we all have our own pet peeves about the GDB.  The amount of noise for the sake of noise is kind of annoying to me, but there's no such thing as a perfect discussion forum.

Of course, the GDB is optional too.  If you don't like it or don't find it useful, I'm sure you could get by with the occasional visit to Staff Announcements and your clan forum, and leave it at that.

[Angela Christine]

The GDB is important because it provides a long-term, stable sense of community.  

One of the things I was concerned about when I was first looking at Armageddon was that Permadeath + Anonymity would destroy any sense of community or camaraderie between players.  You have a character, your character has friends and enemies, then your character dies and you aren't supposed to tell anyone who your new character is or seek out your old character's friends.  At that point you'd have no connection to the game at all, no long-term associations, no common history with other players, nothing to hold you here.  

The GDB fills that gap.  You still shouldn't know which players are connected to which characters, and permadeath can still make building long-term IC relationships can be hard, but this board provides a sense of community and continuity regardless of how often you die IC.  You look around the GDB, the regulars are still here doing their thing, the newbies are asking questions you know how to answer, a few people are bickering and getting way too passionate about some petty detail of the game, and you know that everything is going to be ok.

[Maso]

Ha. Without the GDB I would have been mauled as newb. It's a great way to get deeper more indepth information and also helps to develop culture as things are discussed.

I also don't have an issue with the same topics coming up again and again, sometimes it's new answers sometimes it's not but I think things do change in the game, I also think it gives newer players the opportunity to see these posts. Not everyone goes back a hundred pages to read all the old posts.

[Cale_Knight]

Don't forget that the GDB is an OOC outlet that doesn't exist inside the game. MUDs with multiple OOC global channels aren't as dependent on forums because they can communicate with one another in the game.

[mansa]

Without the GDB, I wouldn't have made friends online.

[jmordetsky]

I think the gdb would be tight if you filter by poster. Like a block list in your IM, only by post or reply to post.

Another idea that would help a lot is a vote factor. So if for example I think Rhyden is a snazzy guy, with good ideas I vote for him. As a result, I can filter posts by weight and skim though the oppinions I want faster.  And the higher your weight, the more weight your vote lends so on and so forth.

So for example, lets say mansa has a weight of -5, which is probably what it would be, and he voted for me who has a vote of -6 (which is probably what it would be) that would give me only a tiny boost. But lets say then LOD comes along and votes for me, his weight is higher say 4 or 5 because he doesn't post the idiotic things Mansa and I post, so that boosts my rank significantly more.

Lastly, I'd like to have JMDB. A jmordetsky discussion board. This is just like the GDB, except the only people who can post are approved by me and I'm very liberal with the twit flag.

A boy can dream, can't he?

[Ghost]

What I love about GDB is, you have the option not to read it if it is bothering you.

You don't even have to visit the GDB, can you believe that?

[bloodfromstone]

Ghost, you just blew my mind.

[spawnloser]

Joe, you'd like the GDB to encourage ignorance or turn into a popularity contest?

[a strange shadow]

Joe would like to be sarcastic.

[spawnloser]

It's been suggested before, the filter idea, and was suggested in all seriousness.  It was shot down then.  Reasons it could be shot down include that it goes against the community thing that many people are saying is an important aspect of the GDB...and that it encourages ignorance in discussion.  You can't come up with a good argument for/against something when you can't read all the posts that come before yours on that topic.

The voting thing is simply a popularity contest, and does exist on some boards.

I wasn't commenting on his JMDB idea.  That I would agree was possibly sarcasm, but was more likely simply joking.

[jmordetsky]

It's been suggested before, the filter idea, and was suggested in all seriousness.  It was shot down then.  Reasons it could be shot down include that it goes against the community thing that many people are saying is an important aspect of the GDB...and that it encourages ignorance in discussion.  You can't come up with a good argument for/against something when you can't read all the posts that come before yours on that topic.

The voting thing is simply a popularity contest, and does exist on some boards.

I wasn't commenting on his JMDB idea.  That I would agree was possibly sarcasm, but was more likely simply joking.

You wouldn't be allowed on the JMDB. Your ideas are far too radical. We prefer the sheltered reality of common thought. If you edit your post and explicitly agree that a GDB that reflects only my interests is a good idea then I will let you in.


On a serious note: I really do want to filter most of you. You know who you are and you know *why* I want to filter you. I don't care if I don't get to read your posts. I would rather remain ignorant then be lambasted with your idiocy.  The odds you saying something surprisingly intelligent far exceed the value of what you *could* say and can never make up for the damage that reading your drivel causes me. I would wager to say I *miss* good posts because I have to sift through this festering swamp of retardation.

A great deal of you are dumb and I hate when you even respond or even worse, misunderstand my magnificent ideas.

It is the same reason I don't watch American idol, or grey's anatomy. They hurt me.

For those of you wondering right now if I am serious, so you know, I am.

If you are wondering if you are one of the people that I'm refering to, then you probably are.

I'll take this a step further and add that I think the GDB should be scrapped and I should make all decisions without any input from the players or the staff moving forward. We'll call it my personal Jmortatorship. None of you get a voice, but me, and maybe mansa.

Edited: For additional things I wanted to add.
Edited Again: For additional things I wanted to add.
Edited Again Again: For additional things I wanted to add.

[jhunter]

*overthroes jmordetsky and has him hanged*

*makes sure to -leak- the hanging on video to the public*

*begins building The United Empire of Jhunter*

[jmordetsky]

*overthroes jmordetsky and has him hanged*

*makes sure to -leak- the hanging on video to the public*

*begins building The United Empire of Jhunter*

You didn't even emote you twink.

:picks up the pieces of his shattered realm and plots unforgiving vengence.

[manonfire]

It's been suggested before, the filter idea, and was suggested in all seriousness.  It was shot down then.  Reasons it could be shot down include that it goes against the community thing that many people are saying is an important aspect of the GDB...and that it encourages ignorance in discussion.  You can't come up with a good argument for/against something when you can't read all the posts that come before yours on that topic.

The voting thing is simply a popularity contest, and does exist on some boards.

I wasn't commenting on his JMDB idea.  That I would agree was possibly sarcasm, but was more likely simply joking.

You wouldn't be allowed on the JMDB. Your ideas are far too radical. We prefer the sheltered reality of common thought. If you edit your post and explicitly agree that a GDB that reflects only my interests is a good idea then I will let you in.


On a serious note: I really do want to filter most of you. You know who you are and you know *why* I want to filter you. I don't care if I don't get to read your posts. I would rather remain ignorant then be lambasted with your idiocy.  The odds you saying something surprisingly intelligent far exceed the value of what you *could* say and can never make up for the damage that reading your drivel causes me. I would wager to say I *miss* good posts because I have to sift through this festering swamp of retardation.

A great deal of you are dumb and I hate when you even respond or even worse, misunderstand my magnificent ideas.

It is the same reason I don't watch American idol, or grey's anatomy. They hurt me.

For those of you wondering right now if I am serious, so you know, I am.

If you are wondering if you are one of the people that I'm refering to, then you probably are.

I'll take this a step further and add that I think the GDB should be scrapped and I should make all decisions without any input from the players or the staff moving forward. We'll call it my personal Jmortatorship. None of you get a voice, but me, and maybe mansa.

Edited: For additional things I wanted to add.
Edited Again: For additional things I wanted to add.
Edited Again Again: For additional things I wanted to add.

Let's do this.

[Rhyden]

The voting thing is simply a popularity contest, and does exist on some boards.

The voting doesn't exist on this board but the popularity contest does. And like any popularity contest, the most popular people gain the most attention. And then usually influence other players' opinions and ideas concerning Armageddon.

On another note, it seems everyone who's posted agrees that the GDB helps for an OOC sense:

- new player help
- strong community

But does the GDB help the game IC? Is it better that we all know each other OOC? Is it better that we take other player's OOC ideas and use them IC with our own players?

[mansa]

Digg is a big popularity contest, but, it's working, isn't it?

Slashdot, anyone?

I think a way to have the citizens of the GDB to vote and give weight to individual comments will reduce some of the crap that gets generated.

I mean, I, Personally, would not vote for this.  I would 'bury' this:
http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=259978#259978

And this:
http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=259978#259978

And this:
http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=259992#259992

And this:
http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=260000#260000

And this:
http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=260004#260004

And this:
http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=260009#260009

But, I would vote for this, and I would Digg it:
http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=260016#260016

[flurry]

The best way to reduce the noise is to not post it.

[mansa]

The best way to reduce the noise is to not post it.

flurry, I agree with you, however, we're on the internet, and that changes everything.

I think there needs to be some moderation somehow.  Whether that be with immortals handing out temporary 'twit' flags that prevent people from posting for a certain ammount of time, or a system where everybody can vote and 'bury' certain comments that aren't part of the discussion at hand..  

I think there should be some change.  I'm really hoping for a digg like system.

[flurry]

I'm not that familiar with Digg, but I just read a little blurb about it.  Yeah, I'm not opposed to something like that.  I'm not sure how well it would work, in practice, but I could see it being helpful in moderation without giving the Immortals more work.  Plus it would be a way to deal with the spambot problem.

[Ghost]

What is a Digg and where can I get one?

[mansa]

http://www.digg.com/

I have some pictures here:




Someone posted an article about Linux and their father thinking it's Vista.  The first few comments people have 'buried' so that they aren't shown, because they are stupid comments.  You can still read them, by clicking the 'show comment' button.

In this next picture, I've clicked open one of the comments to read.  Also, there is one comment there that people have clicked 'digg' to promote the comment and keep it visible.

[bardbard#4]

Digg is wicked.  A good introduction to it is the Diggnation podcast, found here:

http://diggnation.com

[jmordetsky]

Some Digg-esque (the website, not the handsome young fellow we all know and love) functionality like would renew my faith in the GDB and deter any attempts by parties led by me to over throw it.

[mansa]

I've been trying to find DIGG type mods to phpBB boards.

It's also called Topic Rating, and jmordetsky wants a friend/foe mod

http://www.phpbb.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=415272

There's a bunch here.

There's also this one:
http://www.phpbb.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=403333

Also, they are all in development.

Also, phpBB3 should be out and have Friend/Foe mod included in the package.


This one looks interesting too:
http://www.phpbb.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=368075

[Maybe42or54]

So it is like my microsoft outlook inbox?