combat...still a little flaky?

[jmordetsky]

You're examples don't fit the situation.  They probably were in a controlled environment, especially so if they were filmed.  Not only that, but they were one-on-one.

A large part of the skill in a skilled fighter is not getting into bad situations.  Like a two-on-one.  It's just a dumb thing to do.  Especially on open ground where they can easily circle and surround you.

Okay, so lets take Rantarri out of it then. Do you think a 110+ ranger or warrior should be able to handle a two on 1 from 2 desert elves? Or 2 gith? By your rational the answer would be no.  Which is just silly.

How are you guys not seeing this? We're not talking about me or you, or our 10-20 day characters here. We're talking about someone who at 110 days of play, with the right stats should the equivalent of a zalanathan bruce lee.

Bruce Lee would beat the pants out of two "averages" which is what most humanoid npcs should be. They might be are tougher then 10-20 day pcs, but not 110 I'm sorry.

Facing off with a 110 PC *should* be as utterly frightening as facing off with Mike Tyson or a UFC equivalent.

Taking this a step further....just to clarify. A 110 day mage with half a brain and some time to prepare is near unkillable.

[spawnloser]

Taking this a step further....just to clarify. A 110 day mage with half a brain and some time to prepare is near unkillable.

Well, yeah.  Who said that a X-day this class vs same-day other class should ever be an even match?  This game isn't about making sure that everyone is equal.

You've read the description of a rantarri, I am assuming.  For those that haven't, it is a predatory creature roughly at the size level of the great cats in the real world.  Two great cats vs one dude.  Seriously, picture that and tell me that the dude should be able to mow through them.

[flurry]

Let me try to state this a fully as possible:

If a well trained, combat char (burglar, assassin, ranger, warrior) at 110 days of play can't solo two rantarri, gith, raptors any mid-size, midly dangerous m0b, then *SOMETHING IS BROKEN*.

No way.  For a warrior, okay, I agree.  Otherwise, maybe yes, maybe no.  I played one such character, and situations like you describe are nothing new.

[jstorrie]

If this happened after the defense normalization, I'll point out that though the character was at 110 days, his defensive skills had been artificial stunted - and as such when the defense code was normalized he would be much more vulnerable than his play-time would suggest, until he again rose to where someone who put in 110 days starting now would be. So it is entirely possible that a 110-day warrior can take on two rantarri at once, though it sucks that your friend got the short end of the turn-over.

[jmordetsky]

Let me try to state this a fully as possible:

If a well trained, combat char (burglar, assassin, ranger, warrior) at 110 days of play can't solo two rantarri, gith, raptors any mid-size, midly dangerous m0b, then *SOMETHING IS BROKEN*.

No way.  For a warrior, okay, I agree.  Otherwise, maybe yes, maybe no.  I played one such character, and situations like you describe are nothing new.

Okay. I thought rantarri were the winged dudes in the grass lands and as it turns out, I am a tremendoo jackeess. I'm big enough to admit this.  Soooooooo.....with a slight blush.....I restate the above...

If a well trained, combat char (burglar, assassin, ranger, warrior) at 110 days of play can't solo two gith, raptor any other mid-size, midly dangerous m0b, then *SOMETHING IS BROKEN*.

From what I hear a rantarri does not fall into the category of mid-size and midly dangerous....so, I apologize.

[flurry]

Heh.  I hate to say this, but actually I was thinking of gith.

[jmordetsky]

Heh.  I hate to say this, but actually I was thinking of gith.

Really? Think about it though. 2 Gith...reasonably trained vs a 110 ranger, lets say he's been in the byn or something.

You really think the 2 gith would take him down? At 110 days of byn training the ranger would on par with a great hero of zalanthas. He should shred 2 gith. He should shred 3 gith.

*double checks the gith desc*

Yes. Shred.

[spawnloser]

I dunno, Joe...gith come in different varieties of strength/skill.

[Synthesis]

Considering tests of strength and fighting ability are a pretty central part of gith culture, I'm surprised the gith NPCs were so weak.

I think your average gith raider should be just as dangerous (if not more dangerous) than your average NPC soldier, or at least on a par with other "guard" NPCs throughout the game that are patrolling or guarding a certain bit of territory.

I suppose that's neither here nor there, though...and with the new combat code, I can't really comment on how difficult they are now.

[jmordetsky]

I dunno, Joe...gith come in different varieties of strength/skill.

Yes...I was thinking run of the mill gith... but see below.

Considering tests of strength and fighting ability are a pretty central part of gith culture, I'm surprised the gith NPCs were so weak.

I think your average gith raider should be just as dangerous (if not more dangerous) than your average NPC soldier, or at least on a par with other "guard" NPCs throughout the game that are patrolling or guarding a certain bit of territory.

I suppose that's neither here nor there, though...and with the new combat code, I can't really comment on how difficult they are now.

I disagree. I mean, *yes* there are powerful gith out there who would be "heros" and uber l33t in their own right and generally there should be a few of those out there. But they aren't a elite race of Mul-like creatures...

...right?...

I'm assuming a gith follows the sort of begining middle and end of skill levels as do Delves, dwarves and humans. Granted they will be hardened to desert life, that doesn't mean their population distribution in terms of who is a BAMF and who is not a BAMF would that far off other races.

Anyway...The example given is two run of the mill desert crawling gith npcs (as coded now) are chillin. Along comes 110+ ranger (note: not warrior) and he goes H2H with the 2 gith.

Imho...he should leave with two skulls and some minor cuts. A 110+ ranger should be a frightening melee BAMF. A 110+ warrior should be a rediculously frightening melee BAMF. A 110+ assassin should be a pretty f-in scary melee BAMF and a 110 day buglar should be pretty BAMFy as well.

I am dishearted if they are not.

[Forest Junkie]

I've had rangers and warriors at 20+ days played who could take on up to three npcs/pcs, albeit no RANTARRI, if they were properly prepared.

* If a 110 day warrior who is highly branched got pwnt by a pair of absolutely NASTY critters (check the docs, they are fairly tough even one on one) I'd say that yes, something is broken.*

However, in taking into consideration that defense has been tweaked to be more realistic now, I'd say that the code was fixed rather than broken.

I've not been able to personally test out these new tweaks to the code, nor did I have a powerful or highly branched combat-oriented pc when the tweaks went into place to be "in the know" as to how bad old pc's were ass fucked. I can only close with an "I'm sorry about your pc." Believe me, I know what it's like losing an amazing, long lived pc to what you consider faulty code, or new buggy coding.

I think with time the new tweaks will be more accepted by the playerbase once long lived pc's begin "catching back up." Just give it time everyone. I think it'll be a'right!

[Good Gortok]

I'm not strictly against the new combat code, I think it has brought some good things, but as the player of a newly created hunter PC I want to chip in with my own experiences. This is not coming from a Byn warrior who spars once an hour or a well-established ranger who could raise his skills before the changes went in. The ranger I created two days ago still hasn't found anything he can kill. The things he probably would be able to take down flee when I enter the room, and the things that don't - well, I can't kill them. Maybe it's my somewhat under average stats, maybe I'm not wearing good armor or I could be doing something else wrong. I'm not trying to wrestle with raptors, carru or tembos, the things that are beating me are hawks, bamuks and other small critters that I thought represented the things that new hunters could take on with a decent chance. I don't like the thought of having to join a clan and spend a good while sparring before I can even begin to play a small-game hunter.

Like I said, I'm not against the changes as a whole, but in light of the new combat code perhaps some of the smaller animals should be toned down?

[Agent_137]

I don't like the thought of having to join a clan and spend a good while sparring before I can even begin to play a small-game hunter.

Why not? Is that not more realistic? The critters in the zalanthan wastes aren't rabbits. They're freaking beasts.

Also, if the stuff you can take down runs away, perhaps you should consider a ranged weapon? Or working in teams?

With all due respect, it sounds like a lot of the people speaking against the changes are just moaning about not being able to do it the old way.

well, suck it up. The old way was BROKEN. This is the proper way.

Adapt and Survive. Or Don't. Welcome to Armageddon.

[Hot_Dancer]

Hint: Try a shield.

Hot Dancer

[Anael]

Dunno, but... in past, I had a funny problem with certain NPCs. They couldn't hit my PC and I couldn't hit them, because of high defenses on both sides. Usually, the fight degraded to 'who kicks the other one to death first', or even more dull variations on this story involving bash, disarm, etc. Now, these predicatble fights became much much more interesting.

I didn't notice any downsides. I like the fact that even highly skilled warriors have to be careful around multiple beasts because well... sorry, but the term 'Zalanthan hero' made me snicker. There's no untouchable superheros.

Except mansa.