Objectives

[Uberskaapie]

How do you use the "change objective" command? I don't mean how does it work or what is it for, but Personally -do you put long term character goals in here? or is it something that you might change often, to whatever you PC might have in the back of his mind that day? Do you not use it at all? how important is it to you?

[drunkendwarf]

I personally forget to use it a lot of the time (didn't remember until i read the post - then I set an objective :? ).

Usually when I do use it, it's short term kinda things...only long term if my character is really bent towards accomplishing it. Even then, if I find I get a short-term goal along the way, I change my objective until it's complete, then maybe change it back to the long term goal.

[Zhaira]

Good objectives:

Waiting to talk to (clan NPC)
To spy on (person) for (person)
To learn how to accurately throw a spear
Can someone please animate this templar so I can report a crime?
To fell a carru for the tribe's feast
To murder Lord Fancypants with terradin
To be promoted to Sergeant
Hurt from a fight, can I please be set to lower HP?


Bad objecties:

(left for someone else who's not getting ready for a party)

[Rhyden]

You can also use change objective for OOC things such as:

Waiting for sdesc change.
Requesting stat increase.
Need mdesc change.

etc.

[Barzalene]

One should not however, use it interchangably with change ldesc. I forget that sometimes.

[Agent_137]

for dwarves,

i aliased change objective to "ob"

comes in handy.

ob get to allanak.

ob have some drinks.

Helps keep me in the proper dwarven mindset.

[jhunter]

For dwarves I do exactly the opposite of that. I put my dwarf's focus as my objective so it is always there...to be concentrated on and worked toward singlemindedly.

Other pcs I used it for any current goals or minor things I want to accomplish at the moment.

[Vessol]

Sadly I must admit that I have never used the objective command.

[Agent_137]

For dwarves I do exactly the opposite of that. I put my dwarf's focus as my objective so it is always there...to be concentrated on and worked toward singlemindedly.

Other pcs I used it for any current goals or minor things I want to accomplish at the moment.

I disagree. It's easy to remember the lifelong goal of the dwarf. THe hard part for me is single mindedly pursuing his mini-focus of the moment. THat which makes him significantly different from a human achieving the same minor goal.

But if it's the other way around, you can't remember what the grand purpose is, then yea, that's a great way to do it.

[jhunter]

For dwarves I do exactly the opposite of that. I put my dwarf's focus as my objective so it is always there...to be concentrated on and worked toward singlemindedly.

Other pcs I used it for any current goals or minor things I want to accomplish at the moment.

I disagree. It's easy to remember the lifelong goal of the dwarf. THe hard part for me is single mindedly pursuing his mini-focus of the moment. THat which makes him significantly different from a human achieving the same minor goal.

But if it's the other way around, you can't remember what the grand purpose is, then yea, that's a great way to do it.

It's not that I cannot remember what my pc's grand purpose is, that's a rather absurd notion actually. My point is that it should always be the main focus of the pc and should be obvious, not only to you the player, but any staff that happen to be watching the pc as well. I'm not 100% on this but I would think that it's much easier and faster for the staff to know what your dwarven pc's focus is if it is in your objective rather than having to pick it out of your bio. *shrug*

[Dalmeth]

It's not that I cannot remember what my pc's grand purpose is, that's a rather absurd notion actually. My point is that it should always be the main focus of the pc and should be obvious, not only to you the player, but any staff that happen to be watching the pc as well. I'm not 100% on this but I would think that it's much easier and faster for the staff to know what your dwarven pc's focus is if it is in your objective rather than having to pick it out of your bio. *shrug*

The staff does not need to know what a dwarf's focus is, all they need to know is that you, the player, are playing out your character's focus in a consistent manner.

Any tool the player can use to aid in this has my wholehearted support.

[Satansfish]

Agent137... You've opened my eyes. It's a horrible thing to say, but it's never even occured to me that dwarves pursue -every- facet of their lives as singlemindedly as they would their focus. You've completely changed how I'm going to be RPing them in the future, so thank you.


On topic - I tend to use my objective for medium to long term goals.

[Tlaloc]

FYI: From the char gen process:

To be approved, you _must_ include information about your characters focus.

So, just so people are clear: dwarven focuses MUST be mentioned in the background of your charcter. It's not hard for us to look in the bio and figure it out, provided it's on the first page. Indeed, we are often looking at dwarves and trying to figure out their foci by checking their backgrounds.

As for change objective, and dwarves:

Agent137... You've opened my eyes. It's a horrible thing to say, but it's never even occured to me that dwarves pursue -every- facet of their lives as singlemindedly as they would their focus. You've completely changed how I'm going to be RPing them in the future, so thank you.

I think the important thing to remember is that dwarves will persue anything they feel is a sub-focus to attaining their goal with the same tennacity as their focus. Anything outside of their 'focus' is left to the wayside.

Generally, I put any objectives in my PCs focus...most often short to mid-term goals, though long term goals get filled in when I'm not working towards something directly.

[jhunter]

It's not that I cannot remember what my pc's grand purpose is, that's a rather absurd notion actually. My point is that it should always be the main focus of the pc and should be obvious, not only to you the player, but any staff that happen to be watching the pc as well. I'm not 100% on this but I would think that it's much easier and faster for the staff to know what your dwarven pc's focus is if it is in your objective rather than having to pick it out of your bio. *shrug*

The staff does not need to know what a dwarf's focus is, all they need to know is that you, the player, are playing out your character's focus in a consistent manner.

Any tool the player can use to aid in this has my wholehearted support.

Lol, and how do they know that if they don't know -what- your dwarf's focus is?

[Agent_137]

Lol, read tlaloc's post.

[jhunter]

I did. Reread mine and specifically -what- the poster I quoted said.

The staff does not need to know what a dwarf's focus is, all they need to know is that you, the player, are playing out your character's focus in a consistent manner.

That is contradictory of itself. You can't know that they are playing it consistantly if you don't know specifically what it is.  

Here's another example of saying something similar but pertaining to a different command:

"The staff does not need you to use the think command, they just need to know that you are consistent in your thinks."

Do you see what I'm getting at now? If they didn't need to know it at all they'd all have to be RL mindbenders, lol.

[Agent_137]

i see, yes, you're right, the statement is self contradictory.

I was reading an "does not need to know what a dwarf's focus is" as "does not need to see it in his objective."

And that may not or may not be what dalmeth actually intended to say.

[Tlaloc]

Yes: I would say that having the characters focus in their background is much more important than in their objective. A focus never, ever changes for a dwarf (unless they achieve it). Stating your focus clearly in your background allows you to free up your objective to set up sub-foci.

So a dwarf who's focus is to become the greatest under-silt basketweaver in the Known World can set his objective to a subfocus: learn to breath under silt.

[jhunter]

Yes: I would say that having the characters focus in their background is much more important than in their objective. A focus never, ever changes for a dwarf (unless they achieve it). Stating your focus clearly in your background allows you to free up your objective to set up sub-foci.

So a dwarf who's focus is to become the greatest under-silt basketweaver in the Known World can set his objective to a subfocus: learn to breath under silt.

Then why require having an objective upon creation for a dwarven pc? Maybe you would rather get into game and decide upon a subfocus to go about attaining your main focus dependant upon your situation as it plays out in game?

I do see what Agent and you are saying about using it that way, maybe I will try it the next time I play a dwarven pc. I'm not sure how I feel about constantly changing my objective though. From one angle, it seems to be the opposite of approaching things singlemindedly. *shrug*

[Agent_137]

Requiring the focus in the objective is good for the new players playing dwarves, and it's very easy to just change your objective once you do get into game and decide upong a subfocus.


Now, more indepth look at why I think using subfoci is a good idea: (disclaimer, I'm just restating what i already posted in more words.)

In my experience, while I can easily grasp the end focus for my dwarf, anytime I want to ask myself the question "is this helping or hindering my focus?" I have to go through the whole process of how my dwarf is getting from now to his focus.

So it's far simpler for me to say, "my sub focus is this very immediate thing that I know will help reach my focus. so how is what i'm doing helping or hindering my sub focus?"

Though, it's entirely up to the individual just -how- immediate the sub focus is, and that is interdependent on how far out the focus is for your dwarf.

I've heard of people in the past having very achievable foci for their dwarves from the start. Something they could do in a few RL months of time. If you combine this with sub foci that might last a few RL weeks, well, then you're not going to have too many sub foci in the end. And that's cool. Whatever keeps your dwarf intent on the task at hand to the exclusion of everything else is good.


--

Remember the old story:

There was a dwarf whose focus was to care for his dwarven village. For the past few days, he'd been building a new well. But then, suddenly, a fire breaks out! He's focused on the well, but the fire is definitely a more pressing need in caring for the village. But he can't just drop his tools and run to help. He has to come to a stopping point, finish laying the brick, set his tools down in a nice order, and -then- run to help with the fire.

So his sub focus was build a well. He was pursing that singlemindedly. But his grand focus was still in his mind, so he finished his sub sub focus of "lay this brick" and -then- he went on to tend another focus "put out the fire."