How many archers have you seen since...

[Hot_Dancer]

How many archers have you seen since the implementation of stamina drain to archery?

The aim of this post is to show the sharp decrease I've noticed in bow use along with the implementation of stamina drain to shooting.

Myself, among watching many many desert elves and my tally concerns only them (though your tally can count any race).

0

Hot Dancer

[Lizzie]

I think there might be other reasons why archers haven\'t been doing archery. It looks like a lot of us are new players, plus a lot of new characters since the war, and for new characters buying a bow isn\'t really a financial option. I know at one point my PC would\'ve loved to have a bow and my PC\'s background supported the goal but IC things - happen. Had nothing to do with a stamina drop.

[Lazloth]

I haven't seen any marked decrease.

[Pantoufle]

I haven't got any recent archery experience to offer feedback but it sounds disheartening that what you say may be true.  In the past, becoming a decent marksman was always an obstacle simply due to the need for an endless supply of arrows, though admittedly archery shouldn't be an easy skill to become adept at.  Whatever the case, I sincerely hope the skill hasn't become useless as you propose it may, Hot_Dancer.  Let's hope this thread does something to remedy the situation.

[Malken]

There's a stamina drop to archery?

I hope it comes with a major increase in difficulty to hit critters with blades, then.

[WarriorPoet]

I haven't seen any marked decrease.

Nor have I.

-WP

[marko]

I've seen more.

[mansa]

I agree with Hot_Dancer.

0.

-edit-


Oh, yeah, I haven't been playing.  Silly me.

[Gaare]

As many as I see before the change.

[Cuusardo]

I think it's something that happens in phases, just like seeing a bunch of half-elves all of a sudden, or a bunch of new gemmers in Allanak.

[Fnord]

No noticeable difference...

[LauraMars]

Before I answer this question, how do you categorize archer?  Is it someone wearing a bow on their back?  Someone with skill_archery?  Do you actually have to see them shoot?

[KingOfSpades]

I keep my bow in my pack. So your counting bad.

[Hymwen]

I never really saw many of what I'd call archers in the first place, but I play city PCs almost exclusively.

However, the archery stamina drain hit d-elves far harder than anyone else, both because stamina is much more valuable to them, and because it can be hard to find a suitable bow for a d-elf and thus many end up using a stronger bow which drains even more stamina.

[Fnord]

However, the archery stamina drain hit d-elves far harder than anyone else, both because stamina is much more valuable to them, and because it can be hard to find a suitable bow for a d-elf and thus many end up using a stronger bow which drains even more stamina.

I disagree with just about all of this, but it would be a derail to debate it here.  

[Spud]

I recently played an archer-type character and didn't find the stamina drain to be any problem.

IMO, d-elves have plenty of stamina, it shouldn't be too much of a problem unless you're over shooting.

EDIT: To anwser on topic, I never really saw many archers before-hand.

[Rhyden]

I've seen a few. Same few as there usually are. I've also not seen any problems with the archery-stamina and combat-stamina code. I really don't see what the big fuss over it is.

[Cyrian20]

However, the archery stamina drain hit d-elves far harder than anyone else, both because stamina is much more valuable to them, and because it can be hard to find a suitable bow for a d-elf and thus many end up using a stronger bow which drains even more stamina.

I disagree with just about all of this, but it would be a derail to debate it here.  

I have to agree with Fnord, Any well played d elf will rarely get near anything that low,
and being on both sides of the "run circles shooting" raiding tactic I am very glad this
is currently in game.

[bloodfromstone]

I haven't noticed a difference, but I've been holed up in the city, so don't really take that to heart.

[Armaddict]

I use archery and forgot it drains stamina.

[Anonymous]

Out of curiousity i would assume crossbows don't drain stamina. At least they shouldn't in my mind. Hopefuly if they don't, we'll see a few more players use them as opposed to bow and arrow

[Pantoufle]

Good point about crossbows.  I wonder if they are coded the same simply because they fall under the same class of weapon.  Let's hope not.

Ideally, it would cost stamina to LOAD a crossbow that is too strong for you.  But once it's loaded pulling the trigger shouldn't cost anything.

[Manhattan]

Don't forget about slings.

[Hot_Dancer]

Not all elves live in areas where the typical cost-per-room stamina drain is 1.

The run-circles-shooting tactic disapeared with the stamina change to desert elves a while back.

Elves who live in rougher terrain are only running about 10-15 rooms before they're looking to rest, as most survival templates base around keeping your stamina above 100 at all times and only rarely down to 50% of their total stamina. Sometimes this distance is extended by roads, but you can't always move in a straight line and sometimes roleplay will require backtracking.

Each archery shot is in stamina drain can range near the equivalant of running a tough desert room, or half that. Three shots will often equal running two less rooms.

Most elves you run into in the middle of their day will likely be on their way to rest, this type of stamina management forces their play to be extremely efficient and run along a fairly exact line. If something comes up in the middle of that line, they're much less able to react with it or play along because, they could end up standing infront of another PC exhausted and unable to defend themselves, or unable flee the required distance to safety if things turn bad.

Now, with these things in mind: Is shooting your bow typically going to be worth those 2 rooms? Compound this by the rigor that many combat commands will take easily double or triple the stamina drain if they require use.

Hot Dancer

[Lazloth]

The run-circles-shooting tactic disapeared with the stamina change to desert elves a while back.

I have to assume you're talking about pvp, because at last check, mobs were still dumb.

If you're griping that the d.elves can no longer pkill with as much impunity in a scenerio that had them effectively untouchable, I don't think I can come up with a retort that carries enough punch.

Maybe you should spec to beastmaster?

[cownosecat]

Good point about crossbows.  I wonder if they are coded the same simply because they fall under the same class of weapon.  Let's hope not.

Ideally, it would cost stamina to LOAD a crossbow that is too strong for you.  But once it's loaded pulling the trigger shouldn't cost anything.

Well, a crossbow with a crank takes a LOT less strength to load then a bow.  The crank does all the work for you, it would drain you only if you where cranking that thing all day.

Now, there are crossbows without cranks, and those would require alot of strength to load.  I assume these crossbows don't have any metal parts, so I wonder if cranks can be made out of other materials and be strong enought to load the bolt?  I bet they can, but I don't know.

[Hot_Dancer]

I have to assume you're talking about pvp, because at last check, mobs were still dumb.

If you're griping that the d.elves can no longer pkill with as much impunity in a scenerio that had them effectively untouchable, I don't think I can come up with a retort that carries enough punch.

Maybe you should spec to beastmaster?

Where the fuck did you come up with this? You should quote someone else.

Hot_Dancer

[Lazloth]

Sorry if I misread your intent:  I read your post as "[with this change] elves can't kite as effectively."  In glancing over it again, it may be more of a general stamina gripe; because my experience with elves is rarely with a hunter archetype, I'll refrain from further opinion.

[Forty Winks]

I've had very little to no problems with the archery implementation as a d-elf...but then again, I liked using the sling with that particular one.  :lol:

Oh, forgot about the original purpose of the thread. I havn't noticed much decline at all in the number of archers, but then again, alot depends on where and the experience of the PCs you run across.

[Majikal]

Being a d-elf myself at the moment.. the stam drain from archery doesn't bother a bit. I can see how it might mess with a dwarf on foot, but even then anyone not d-elf who uses a bow should have a mount anyway. With I'd say above average skill than most archers the stam drain is so minimal it could only make a big difference if my tactic was:
pull quiver
shoot tard n
pull quiver
shoot tard n
pull quiver
shoot tard n
pull quiver
shoot tard n
pull quiver
shoot tard n

I tend to only fire 3-4 arrows.. even if those shots costed 5 stamina a piece then 20 stamina isn't really that big a deal. It doesn't cost alot of stamina unless you're using a bow alot stronger than you need, if the bows pull is right for you then you really shouldn't be seeing more than a 4stam drop with low skill. Get a bow that's too strong and yea, it'll make you tired with a quickness. If the stamina drain you think is still hurting you too bad then get a bow that is too weak and expect a smaller drop of stamina with each shot.

[Socko]

I barely notice the stamina drain.