Googly-eyed people

[EonBlueApocalypse]

You just walked through the door into a bar.  Is it abnormal to see who's walking into a bar?  Even Cthulu agrees.

*nods*

Really, though, this is getting silly.

[Alberic]

I'd note that you did see who walked through the door when you got the message:

Code Select Expand


The random drunk man has arrived from the east.


Wanting more info than that requires you to actively turn from what you are doing and LOOK at him.

[creeper386]

Well, room descriptions give alot of information about the room just as you walk in, does that mean that you automagickally know eveyrone about the room? No. People don't convey all the knowledge to their characters. Most the time, with room descriptions, long descriptions, characters clothing and what not, people just look for things that would catch their characters attention, and don't pay much attention to anything else.

I'm sorry, just because you walked into the door and I saw that thruogh the walk code ... Doesn't mean I need to STARE at you to notice you are stalking through with a giant mace of doom.

Look doesn't mean stare, it's a way to convey information that a character might need to know. If my character is getting up in your characters face to see every detail and turn out your pockets, you'll sure a hell know it.


Creep

[ale six]

There are plenty of ways to stare over someone and scrutinise every little detail of them, if that's truly your intent. (If it is, emote it.)

Declaring everyone who looks at you is getting up in your face and staring is a form of poweremoting, IMO. Just relax and let it go.

[Alberic]

Well, room descriptions give alot of information about the room just as you walk in, does that mean that you automagickally know eveyrone about the room? No. People don't convey all the knowledge to their characters. Most the time, with room descriptions, long descriptions, characters clothing and what not, people just look for things that would catch their characters attention, and don't pay much attention to anything else.

I'm sorry, just because you walked into the door and I saw that thruogh the walk code ... Doesn't mean I need to STARE at you to notice you are stalking through with a giant mace of doom.

Look doesn't mean stare, it's a way to convey information that a character might need to know. If my character is getting up in your characters face to see every detail and turn out your pockets, you'll sure a hell know it.


Creep

That is exactly my point. I have to trust you not to use every part of what you get from look because you refuse to trust that I would emote carrying around anything out of the ordinary. You want everyone to trust you with using the information responsibly but you don't even entertain the notion of trusting people to give you the information without you having to take it along with everything else. If you can't trust me to emote anything out of the ordinary why must I trust your decision making on what you can see?

Honestly, when was the last time someone was actually carrying around a mace of doom or a shirt made of faces or something totally insane that you would instantly notice it? 1 out of 100 looks? 1 out of 1000? It must come up pretty often if that is the only reason why you look at everyone. In fact, the only thing I can think of that would be really important to notice on someone that is at all common are templar robes....and those show up on the sdesc.

I'm basing my response on what the game freaking tells me. Poweremoting is declaring that what the game reveals to everyone isn't actually revealed and people aren't allowed to respond to it. If you don't want people reacting negatively to your scrutiny, don't do it. It's not my job to ignore the code. If I backstab you and miss should you pretend that I didn't do it because I say I did it in a way to make it undetectable? If I fail at peeking into your inventory and you notice should you not be allowed to react cause I say I did it over your shoulder while you were drinking and therefore couldn't see.

Where exactly do you draw the line at believing the game code over players declarations? Again, if they didn't want looking to be obvious to anyone why isn't it hidden like assess?

[Angela Christine]

My arguement is that if that is true then since looking at someone echoes to the whole room there should be no problem if an assassin decides you are paying too much attention and kills you for examining him.

If your character concept is a paranoid psychopath who stabs everyone who might be able to identify him . . . uh, go ahead.   Good luck with that.

[creeper386]

You want everyone to trust you with using the information responsibly but you don't even entertain the notion of trusting people to give you the information without you having to take it along with everything else. If you can't trust me to emote anything out of the ordinary why must I trust your decision making on what you can see?

This is quite simply answered. YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT MY CHARACTER MIGHT FIND INTERESTING!

Now, if you want to emote out everything you have from your long description and your item list ... Well then I wouldn't bother looking, but I bet you don't.

Now, I would use another command if it didn't echo, but no other command even gives an idea really what they character looks like, short descriptions don't do a very good job, nor does anything else give me what they are wearing. I want to know what the game world looks like, and I want to know if my character would notice anything.

Now what next, do you propose we not be able to see long descriptions of rooms because a player might see something that they wouldn't have?

Perhaps we should get rid of echos altogether so we as players rely on other characters to emote out their failed thefts and what they are doing while sneaking and hiding and everything else that's going on? Stuff happens ALL the time that people see, but don't react with their characters. The look command is one of those things.

Now, I don't see how seeing what someone is wearing a hard stare, nor do I even beleive all the time I look at a character it's even my character conciously noticing them, they are just scanning the room for anything of interest, I don't know if there is anything my character might be interested in, unless I look. There isn't any way to get around that. So, I'm thinking that if you RP that everyone looking at you is staring hard and getting into your face, you are going to have some VERY difficult times. As people look alot. it's the only way to get information of whats going on around them.

Creep

[Cyrian20]

When you look at my character, you get to see every little detail about her appearance. When her hood is up, this implies considerable effort.

Maybe there should be a silent version of the look command that just provides sdesc and the visible inventory list, rather than ldesc and the visible inventory list. That would seem more suitable for passing someone hooded in the street.

For christ's sake, it's only look. I don't understand why this is such a big deal.

Exactly

[Dan]

I always have and always will look at whoever I feel, whenever I feel like it. Usually when I see someone new I will give them a quick look and continue with whatever was going on.

I prefer to know when someone is surrounded by magickal effects that don't display when just looking at the room instead of the target. Mayby they are carrying someones head in their hands, or a big ass glowing polearm of death +2. It has never gotten on my nerves when someone else looks at me either, I never understood this debate no matter how many times it has creeped up on the boards.

[UnderSeven]

I personally try not to use look unless I am giving that particular PC attention.  If I do briefly glance, I make use of command emotes to signify that it's a passing glance.  The reason I do this is because, yes, the look command can become jarring, and it also signifies some level of interest that may or may not be there.

This makes me want to put my chips in on an alteration to the look command.  Not a glance command like everyone is suggesting, but a revision to look to be more realistic, going off of a watch check (which amounts to your characters perception of his/her surroundings), and only displaying a message to characters who pass their watch check.  Highly affected by whether you are actively watching target or initiate.

Maybe look does need some big changes, if someone feels they should try not to use look.  I hate to say it, but a LOT of things you should notice pretty easily.  Such as a naked person.  Now they added someone who is armed to assess, but that just doesn't imo begin to cover the things that would be really hard to miss about someone without giving them a look exactly.

[Cale_Knight]

If you don't want to be noticed, use sneak.

The unrealistic thing here is that it's impossible to get information about someone without them being instantly aware of it.

Can you imagine what real life would be like if every chick you scoped out in a bar was immediately and 100% aware that you were checking out her ass?

Madness. Madness.

[jcarter]

Fuck it, I'm going to pull out and point to my signature. This is getting ridiculous.

[Nao]

There are tons of things that you would immediately notice without going to the persons faces or really staring at them

Is that person a noble? Wearing silk or looks like they're important? Or just another dirty-ass commoner? A mercenary still wearing armor? Giant coded tattoo on their face?

All of those would be -easily- noticed on a first glance and would be completely overlooked without the look command.

Short desriptions are so limited in showing information that there's only the most basic things in there - or someone puts eye color in there even if that's usually the last thing I notice about a person - I don't look. Sometimes there aren'T even obvious things like skin color in there.

[EonBlueApocalypse]

Maybe look does need some big changes, if someone feels they should try not to use look.

I've already posted that after reading the mass opinion that looking at someone doesn't mean that I am giving them unnecessary amounts of attention.  I still don't think I am going to look at everything I don't know, because it's old RP habit, but now I'm not going to assume people are going to get an attitude (or get up and stab me?) because I looked at them.

[bloodfromstone]

This is seriously getting to be silly. It's a simple echo. Almost everything echos. Getting upset about the look echo is no different from emoting walking across the room, and then acting like everyone is watching you walk across the room.

[Cyrian20]

I'd note that you did see who walked through the door when you got the message:

Code Select Expand


The random drunk man has arrived from the east.


Wanting more info than that requires you to actively turn from what you are doing and LOOK at him.

We seem to be forgetting the restrictions of code; we need to code-wise look at you in
case there is something that sticks out. I have personally seen an elf with long dangling
arms and talons, but it wasn't in his sdesc. That sticks out and I need to cod-wise look at
it to see it. Also there are several –noticeable- magickal effects that appear when people
look at you and, without naming any, if you were walking through the streets with one
you would definitely stick out even though it's not in your sdesc or tagged underneath.
Also they could have reasons perhaps; they are stalking the streets after someone for
reasons good or bad. They may just look and go, not saying that is the case every
time.


While we all need to accept this, I do prefer if it's a crowded tavern and eight
people have looked at me and not done anything; just save us the spam of your added
look.

[jhunter]

emote STARES at ~human, really, really, hard. His eyes bore into ~human, moving over %human body like a swarm of intruding kankflies.

I'm tempted to dress my 50 day warrior in newbie clothes and walk around doing this. Sure, it might get me into a bunch of trouble for being a twinky fuckwad, but it would certainly be entertaining. At least...for me.  :twisted:

[rishenko]

emote STARES at ~human, really, really, hard. His eyes bore into ~human, moving over %human body like a swarm of intruding kankflies.

I'm tempted to dress my 50 day warrior in newbie clothes and walk around doing this. Sure, it might get me into a bunch of trouble for being a twinky fuckwad, but it would certainly be entertaining. At least...for me.  :twisted:

Frankly I love that idea, having myself played a character that wore common, not so protective gear and had a few, to their own quick end, try and jump him.

It's not twinking to dress like everybody else.  It's also not twinking to play an unassuming badass.  And it's definitely not twinking when some other twink mistakes you for a newbie, seeks a quick kill and finds themselves dead.

[Cale_Knight]

It's not twinking to dress like everybody else.  It's also not twinking to play an unassuming badass.  And it's definitely not twinking when some other twink mistakes you for a newbie, seeks a quick kill and finds themselves dead.

It's not twinking to play an unassuming badass. It's not twinking to wear unassuming clothing.

It's certainly twinking to wear clothing that's specifically newbie-only for the purpose of baiting folks into attacking you.

[spawnloser]

It's also twinky to attack people wearing newbie clothing just because they're wearing newbie clothing.

[Cale_Knight]

It sure is.

Get back to me when two wrongs make a right.

[spawnloser]

If you save your newbie clothing because it is the 'casual wear' for your character and change into it regularly, how is that twinking?

[Cale_Knight]

Hey man. Do it if you think you can rationalize it. Have a blast.

[spawnloser]

Rationalize?  That's a loaded statement.  Thanks for the insult, CK.

It all comes to motivation.  Don't assume things, and don't make accusations.  Only the person doing the action and the staff know for sure.  Leave it to them, okay?

[EonBlueApocalypse]

Train embarking from Munich to Moscow now arriving in Albuquerque.