Concerning Incest

[Melody]

What are the general opinions of various cultures concerning the topic? How do people react to brotherly and sisterly affection that went too deep? Or mother - son ones? Do they take the ancient Rome approach, or the modern one? Is it something regarded in disgust or indifference?

Thanks for sharing!

[Forty Winks]

If it is tribal you are refering to, there should be documents regarding, or hinting at, such issues. As for the general populace, I would think incest would still be frowned upon, but not as much as what RL would take it.

[Melody]

Hullo, being recent to the game still, I don't really understand the reasons behind various things. Could you elaborate for me please? I remember reading on some helpfiles that incest is common with the nobles. If that's the case, would they not get upset with the general populace for looking down on them?

[Cegar]

Eh, I wouldn't think people would make a big fuss at all.

[Forty Winks]

If nobles were doing it, the commoners wouldn't think twice about it, I would think.

In any case, whether or whether not incest is alright IG, if things lead up to such a situation, why bother what others would think? Only makes things more interesting.  :twisted:

[RunningMountain]

I would like to think that the inbreeding effects would be seen on zalanthas just as on earth. Like death, retardation, weakness (wouldn't last long) and all that stuff. So it's probably not common. But I think it would be sweet to have that as a plot.

Reminds me of the Lannister incest in GM's song.

[amish overlord]

Aren't nobles in each city all cousins or similarly related? So don't thin incest at some level of society isn't bad, they have good blood, as long as not brother and sister and such, but cousins i can see happening at the noble level. Lower than noble level ya a bad thing.

Amish Overlord  

[Melody]

Aren't nobles in each city all cousins or similarly related? So don't thin incest at some level of society isn't bad, they have good blood, as long as not brother and sister and such, but cousins i can see happening at the noble level. Lower than noble level ya a bad thing.

What is it bad if you are lower than noble level? What about half brother or sisters or such? What if it is the offspring of your partner's other partner? I'm curious about it for future background potentials and such, since you can't really gain brothers or sisters in game easily. ^_^

[Barzalene]

There's a huge difference between your brother and your cousin. And your cousin and your second cousin. And a world of difference between your brother and your second cousin.

[Kennath]

It take more than one generation of close inbreeding to have any effects. Generally cousin-on-cousin like is done with nobles should have little or no effect.

[ale six]

Incest among commoners might be frowned upon or avoided. Commoners want to survive and make healthy babies, and would probably know that children born of the same blood sometimes end up weaker than others. Still, it's probably not as big a deal in Zalanthas as it is in the real world. No one is going to stop you or fine you for sleeping with your mother/father/brother/sister.

Among the nobles, incest is probably fairly common. Brother/sister pairings might still raise a few brows, but anything less closely related than that wouldn't. There are probably at least a few dozen nobles of each generation in each House, so there's plenty of room for them to pair up without getting -too- close on the family tree. Nobles are usually far more pampered, too, so they can deal with frailty and sickness from inbreeding better. Still, they're as affected by incestual relationships as anybody else is. I've seen nobles played as frail, weak, etc, and it might be for this reason.

The general populace probably wouldn't care if nobles were having incestual relationships or not, and most would probably be smart enough not to bring it up even if they did look down on it. People of certain backgrounds might make derisive comments about 'inbred nobles' and things, but most folks would just ignore it.

[EvilRoeSlade]

Though if you want to use it in your background, then don't forget that even if it's frowned upon doesn't mean that it can't happen.

[Angela Christine]

It isn't illegal, and that's the important thing.

[Guido]

Place is already full of mutants, a dash of incest won't stir up the gene pool too badly. As for social implications, it's likely frowned upon with direct relatives (sibling/parent/child), but anything else (cousin, aunt, nephew) is open game.

[Anonymous kank with wings]

It isn't illegal, and that's the important thing.

Not necessarily. People in such relationships might be heavily shunned, or even subjected to hostile acts. Society has its ways of punishing behaviour that strays from what's accepted as the social norm.

[Angela Christine]

Love is blind, but the neighbours aren't.  Yeah.


Unless you happen to be a Pharaoh or Hawaiian Royalty you probably live in a culture where brother-sister incest is taboo.  Nearly all known human cultures taboo having sexual relations with your siblings, your parents or your children.  Humans in Zalanthas probably aren't so alien that they wouldn't have this very common taboo.  It's unlikely that even elves or dwarves are that alien.  

I was going to suggest googling "incest taboo" but it appears that brings up a lot of porn, so here's a couple non-porn links.  They are just text, but if you are at work you may want to consider what people will think if they see a page with the word "incest" at the top:

http://virgil.azwestern.edu/~dag/lol/Incest.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incest_taboo


I'd say that incest with immediate family is going to be almost universally taboo, and the neighbours (ie. society at large) will not like it.  But it's not illegal, so you probably won't get disappeared, exiled or thrown in the arena for it.  Well, unless a Templar decides to make it illegal just for you, because a Templar can make anything at all illegal.   :wink:

[Dre]

I thought about this and while i think 'common' is probably too strong a word, the phrase...'its happens, nobody gives a shi't...is a better description i think.

In Zalanthas there could be a big difference between having had sex with a sibling and ended up having and raising children with them.

However i would still think that while the general population really doesn't give a shit what someone else does in their bedroom, most of them would have heard stories or rumours of how kanking your sister/brother/mother/father may end up in retarded/mutant/weak/magickal babies.

[Djarjak]

I wish Eris were here...

Incest isn't a taboo just because people look at their brothers and sisters and say "icky poo!"

It's typically taboo because there are notable genetic consequences. Specifically, various forms of retardation, deformity and the like.

Apparently, the odds of this are less the more distant the relation, but genetic insanity, personality problems, organ disorders, and shortened lifespans (less obviously visible issues) still occur.

So, while it might be true to suggest that each member of the nobility is related to one another somewhere (as alliances are formed by marriages between families or power is preserved by marriages within larger families) I don't think it would be fair to assume that this means everyone loves humping their sister, or that no one cares if you hump your sister... There would be fairly severe consequences of something like that.

In my mind, unless it adds something significant to the game, I wouldn't really want to play it.

[Nao]

Those effects only happen if the incest spans through generations - happened in very small, enclosed villages or the european nobiluity, for example.

The child isn't that much more likely to suffer from serious health problems if the parents are brother and sister and there was no incest in the family line before, much less if they're cousins.

You're even allowed to marry your cousin over here

[spawnloser]

I've played a character that was a product of incest...and his mother was the product of incest too.  Great thing is, Vendyra's the one that told me this about my character after I'd started playing him.  It was funny.

[slipshod]

The incest taboo exists in every known human culture on earth.  Some cultures define the parameters of it differently, but parent/children and sibling incest is universally taboo.  Some anthropologists make a compelling argument for it being something genetic... saying that humans are naturally disinclined to mate with family.  The argument exists, though, because there is no definite answer and if it is genetic, that genetic encoding is endlessly complex (and obviously faulty since incest still occurs).  

In the case of European royalty (and Zalanthan nobility), the limits on which people are suitable mates for a Lord or Lady leads to a very small gene pool being tapped into repeatedly, and incest is going to occur - but this is a social decision to keep bloodlines pure, and even then, the common people were (and are on Zalanthas, I postulate) indisposed to it.  

As Djarjak mentioned, one of the reasons it is unfavorable is because of the increased risk of some defect.  What most people don't realize is that you have an equal chance of reinforcing a positive trait or characteristic.  This is why incest breeding is a common tool for horse and dog breeders.  You have a good chance of reinforcing the positive traits, and with these animals, you can simply destroy the culls (the ones with the negative traits reinforced).  With humans, it's a little less simple to destroy the defected children, although many of the defects themselves are fatal and the offspring won't live long anyway.  

The short answer is - the incest taboo exists to some extent universally in human cultures, and so it would exist on Zalanthas.  

The question that modern anthrolopogists still cannot answer absolutely is why.  Even if it IS genetic, it is obviously also influenced by society and culture, otherwise we wouldn't have some cultures where mating between first cousins is perfectly acceptable and others where you need to be removed several more times from a "relative" before it's okay.  In the modern world, incest is actually more of a legal term than it is a biological one for humans.  Is the taboo inherited biologically?  Is it cultural?  Is it a combination?  We still cannot say for certain.

[Hymwen]

I once read somewhere that all humans have a unique scent, and that siblings and parents/children are genetically programmed so that the scent of a close family member, even though you might not notice it, will be sexually unappealing. I think a lot of animals have the same as well. Basically nature's way of preventing extinction due to weakness from inbreeding.

[Melody]

I've read about scents from somewhere too. But oddly enough, I've also see a documentation on how close family members, especially if parted from an early age, can form instant and deep attachment, or true love, even.

On the other hand, incest aren't always frowned upon. In some ages and cultures, it's actually encouraged to keep the bloodline pure. I'm not sure which age and culture Arm lean close to. But all the comments are very helpful, thanks. ^_^

[flaran]

The argument exists, though, because there is no definite answer and if it is genetic, that genetic encoding is endlessly complex (and obviously faulty since incest still occurs).  

Actually, you're at fault here.  There is at least one definite reason that inbreeding leads to disease.  Recessive traits that would normally be brought to life by one-in-a-million chances will come up because it is passed down to all of the family recessively and then stay recessive as each member picked a different partner now will be had by BOTH parents, thus making the child much more likely to have this said rare/recessive disease.

[slipshod]

I think you misunderstood.  What I'm saying is that if incest is taboo because of something gentic and biological, then that mechanism isn't perfect because people still have incestuous relationships.  If it was a perfect biological mechanism, it wouldn't occur at all.

And as for recessive traits - they are 50% likely to be positive.  the chances of reinforcing and passing on a disease or negative trait are just as high as the chances of passing on a positive mutation or trait.