A reminder when it comes to writing PC descriptions

[John]

Call me crazy, but I think John was, y'know... joking.

Mostly My point is that what someone considers a perfectly acceptable word to use, somone else has to go look it up in the dictionary. I use to think I had a pretty good vocabulary until I came to play at Arm. Now I realize it wasn't the greatest. So don't make the default assumption be ""in general" the person's being pompous." Perhaps they're vocabulary is just naturally larger then most Arm player's. Perhaps you're vocabulary is slightly lower then most Armers.

I like simple descriptions that paint a clear picture without being subjective.  Anything over 10 lines gets really hard to read all the way through.

I use to struggle with 4-5 lines. Now I struggly to keep it below 10 lines. And I'm not really describing anything but the basic appearance of the person. I don't know why, but for some reason my descs have gotten larger.

[Hymwen]

I don't mind fancy words if it's kept at a reasonable level. I've learned a lot of new words that way, and as long as it's not 3-4 obscure archaeic words per sentence, I don't have a problem. One trend that I've heard of (and I'm a bit guilty of it too) is to made an sdesc with the more simplified version of a word, and then using different words to describe it in the mdesc, careful to avoid using the word from the sdesc in the mdesc as well. I like this as long as it's not taken to extremes, and as long as people don't pick ridiculously rare words with the intention of confusing the reader, an interesting substitute can be both impressive and educational.

And from personal experience, your sdesc can have a big factor in people's initial reaction, whether that's a good or bad thing. I just know that my attention is easier to catch if you're "the stalwart, willowy man" than if you're "the strong, tall man" (I just made these up, apologies if I accidentally outed your sdesc).

[Kalden]

Thinking about it, I actually like learning new words...even if they are just showing off sometimes. The most annoying ones are clearly synonyms, especially for colors.

[Anonymous]

Considering that your sdesc is, in many ways, the 'face' of your character that will be recognized or not when walking into a room I feel that using obscure words in the sdesc is completely fine.  It helps me distinguish amongst all the many 'smelly' PCs when I see one that is 'malodorous'.

I think a lot of the times the pretension is inferred by others unnecessarily.

[John]

The most annoying ones are clearly synonyms, especially for colors.

I actually like synonyms for colors in sdescs (with the most basic word for the color in the main desc). That way instead of having everyone be "the brown, medium-sized man" we have "the chestnut-skinned, medium-sized man" and "the coffee-skinned, medium-sized man" and "the medium-sized umber man"

[Nao]

If you don't recognize a word yourself, don't use it in your description. Don't use a thesuarus when writing it up unless you're looking for something that would be very difficult to describe otherwise.
A new word every now and then is fine, but the purpose of a description is not to learn new words but to paint some picture of your character.

I'm not a native speaker but I know my vocabulary is alright - I've been to school in the US too and saw what's average in the english classes there

I remember that one character who seemed to have tried to substitute every word in their description with a more obscure one using a thesaurus - it was ridiculous, there were more words in there that your average smaller dictionary doesn't have listed than 'normal' ones.
A ten line description and I had almost no idea at all what the guy looked like - that is more than just a little annoying.

And please, don't tell me that most people using 'atramentous' or whatever just got a huge vocabulary - the only place where some of those words seem to show up is a large dictionary.
(I don't think the armageddon description page helps a lot here since tons of the stuff on there is pretty obscure - but that's another thing)

You google a word and one of the first results is some online dictionary that should tell you soemthing, too.

Subjective descriptions don't bother me all that much - they still give me a picture of the character, whether my own character thinks of them as sexy and beatiful is a completely different thing. I see a pretty woman with black hair - gotcha. some obscure short description? Gimme five minutes....

[James de Monet]

I don't mind looking things up... It's just bad writing. It's a pretty standard rule of writing to simplify.

I'm not sure I could disagree more.  It's a standard rule of writing to communicate to your audience.  If you're communicating a complex notion or nuanced description with words from a third grade reading level, though...something is bound to get lost in translation.

I like good words.  Words that mean very specific things.  You can write a description using all one syllable words just like you can paint a picture using only red green and blue.  It will never be as rich as if you had diversified.  Also, do you realize that humans need complex words to think complex thoughts?  Logic is predicated upon language.  That's why Orwell wrote about the government decreasing people's vocabularies in 1984.  Because without the ability to elucidate complex ideas of wrongs and injustice, people are simply left saying things like, "That ain't right."  Which proves nothing and will not get one far in court.

I suppose that's my two 'sid.

P.S.  I will now leave you all with a very fun good word.  Aprosexia, which means the inability to concentrate.  I'm sure you miscreants can find some clever, (I was about to say "aberrant" but for the sake of this thread I will substitute "deviant."  There, are you happy?   ) deviant use for it.  Go buck wild.

[Cale_Knight]

Personally, I don't like long, over complex words in descs. I feel I have a pretty decent vocabulary, and I don't mind looking things up... It's just bad writing. It's a pretty standard rule of writing to simplify. Don't use 10 words when 3 will say the same thing. The same goes for syllables. Of course, people are free to do what they will, but I find it a bit silly and inconsiderate. But, hey, to each their own.

I suppose it's pretty obvious I agree with this sentiment.

There's a vast, vast difference between rich communication and pretentious overcomplexity. 99 times in 100, amateur writers (which we all are) fall into the second category when they try too hard at attempting the first.

edit: And you can feel free to disagree with my boys Strunk and White, but the fact is that they literally wrote the book on modern usage and style.

[Kiri]

It's a standard rule of writing to communicate to your audience.  If you're communicating a complex notion or nuanced description with words from a third grade reading level, though...something is bound to get lost in translation.

Mark Twain said, the difference between a good word and the perfect word was the difference between lightning and lightning bug.

I'm a firm believer in using the perfect word/phrase to convey the impression you want your character to make.  Your sdesc is like the headline on an ad.... meant to be an attention-getter, an immediate conveyer of what that person wants your first impression of them to be.  Maybe the character has a penchant for romantic verse that he'd like you to find out about when you know him better... but the FIRST thing he wants you to notice about him is that he's a HULKING GREEN SKINNED FELLOW. Or kalan skinned, if you prefer. It's all about what you want the first thing someone thinks about your character to see, whether that's OMFG HE'S HUGE or  HOLY COW HIS EYES DONT MATCH, HOW FREAKY!

As for the rest of the desc... While I agree that one should refrain from too much subjectiveness, I think a lot of it comes to personal preference.  You can be suggestive of attitude or appearance without going into minute detail. Not everyone is going to like your style, but as long as you're within the guidelines, their dislike becomes their problem.  I know that I personally groan every time I see a desc with "arms sprouting from their shoulders" because it makes me think of Sleestak... but that's just me.

[amoeba]

If you're communicating a complex notion or nuanced description with words from a third grade reading level, though...something is bound to get lost in translation.

Not if you are good enough at writing.  Simply throwing obsure words in there just to prove how complexed and nuanced you can be defeats the purpose.  For most every obsure word there is a third grade equivilent phrasing that can be used to convey the same message. Obsure words simply serve to compact the statement.  If anything is going to get "lost in translation" it is in using words that the author has no clear understanding of, but simply looked up and strung together in an "attempt" to look complex and nuanced.

[Maybe42or54]

The Sdesc should be as much as your Main Description as possible without pinpointing something.

Like when I see a chestnut skinned man, I have a few questions running through my head.

Do they have the glossy brown skin, or be as thick, of the actual nut?
Do they have the reddish-brown of the horse?
Is it really brown and red like the dictionary says it is?

The same with Flaxen, do they mean they have blonde and grey hair?
Or do they just have blonde hair?

If I read your description and I'm still unsure, then it isn't very well written, IMHO.

If you list skin color in the sdesc first, you should list skin color in your MDesc first.

[Lizzie]

This game is pretty fast paced, it isn't turn-based like a MUSH. So those descriptions need to be pretty clear to the reader, so the reader knows very quickly how their character should/shouldn't react to seeing the other character. I like what someone said (was it Nao?) that you should try using words that are in your own vocabulary, unless you're looking for a word that fits the sentence better than anything you can come up with on your own. Like ebon, that's a bad example but it came up in my head. Ebon means black. If you've never heard the word ebon before, and you know the word black, then just use black. Or jet, or "the color of a hawk's wing at dusk" or some other descriptive besides ebon. If ebon was an obscure word (I know it isn't) then there's no reason to use it, if there are dozens and dozens of alternatives that most people will understand.

That's what I think.

L. Stanson

[Cale_Knight]

If you list skin color in the sdesc first, you should list skin color in your MDesc first.

You know, I never once thought along those lines, but I absolutely agree.

[Hymwen]

I personally like this setup, in order:

1) major distinguishable features, especially things that would be seen from a distance: height, frame, skin tone and hair color

2) hairstyle and facial features

3) smaller details (scars, missing fingers, strange quirks etc.)

4) anything that didn't fit in the above, preferably with a neat finish to the desc

[flurry]

As far as obscure words go, I don't mind if I have to look up a word or two.  After all, if I'm reading a good book, I have to look words up occasionally.  Sometimes to say just the right thing, you need a particular word.  (For instance, I heard someone on the radio use 'avuncular' today.   If someone used that in a description in-game, some people might have to look it up and some people might not, but it's a word that might better capture a certain person's appearance better than some more familiar words could.)

If an mdesc is littered with obscure words, though, I think it really gets in the way.

As for subjective terms, I personally try to avoid them.  I guess if someone used a word like "beautiful" in their sdesc (assuming it got approved), I would assume it meant beautiful in some kind of classic or popular sense.  That doesn't mean I have to find the person beautiful, but many would.  (For instance, is it really that subjective to refer to Angelina Jolie as beautiful?  Not everyone will find her to be that, but she does fit into a common standard of what people consider beautiful.)   All of that said, I would hope the person would back that up in the mdesc by showing me why this person is described as beautiful.

One last remark: if you do run into one of these walking thesauruses, and find it annoying, please try to keep your OOC reaction from spilling out into IC actions.  Your character sees other characters, but not the particular words the player used to describe them.   Sdescs can be jarring, but not as jarring as IC comments about someone's sdesc.

[Kiri]

As for subjective terms, I personally try to avoid them.  I guess if someone used a word like "beautiful" in their sdesc (assuming it got approved), I would assume it meant beautiful in some kind of classic or popular sense. .

I think we need to stop assuming that all subjective terms refer only to attractiveness.

"Imposing" is a subjective term, and my character might not necessarily be intimidated by a character whose desc included it, but he/she could CERTAINLY tell if said character were imposing to others. IE being tall, stern-looking, having a tendency to loom, etc. Do you see my point? These are impressions a character might be trying to make, and I don't have a problem with it, really.

But that's just me.