Grouped SDescs

[Maybe42or54]

I don't know where this idea came from, so I'll post it anyway, see how it goes. I dig it.


Instead of having Sdescs listed like we do now, we could have them "Bunched." By doing this, I think it will make the world feel more alive and cohesive than it is now. I really dislike walking into a room and I see thirty people listed, plus npcs, plus tables, plus everything else dropped. We all know that pain.
This might also make the mud harder to learn for the new Addicts.
Examples Below.

The Gladiator and the Gaj Tavern -- Main Room [NES]
This is a good, long description, with loads of people everywhere. Awesome.

There is a small crowd of people standing around.
There are a few people at the bar.
(note* If someone is sitting alone at the bar, then it would say "Sdesc Is sitting at the bar." Like it does now.)
There are a couple people at the blue table.
A small, brown-eyed man sits at a narrow ledge.
There are several people at a long, white, darkish table.
There are a few things on the floor here.
A horny, blue-eyed woman is on the stage.

When people emote, their "the" will turn into an "A/an."

A blue-eyed, long haired man at the bar laughs at a freckled, small woman.

At a bar, a freckled, small woman speaks, to a blue-eyed, long haired man.

When you overhear something:

At a bar, you overhear a freckled woman say, "How could you say tha'? Fuck face."

To see the people at the space, you would look at it.

L bar

You see a bar here.
Nothing is on it.
The blue-eyed man sits here.
The yellow toothed woman stands here.
The half-giant stands here.
The dwarf sits here.

Thoughts? Concerns? Helpful advice?

[Forty Winks]

Good idea, if possible. This might also extend to large parties outside with a slew of sdesc following a single person. Instead it would read 'a small group follows the baby-faced templar'. you can look at the group, or attack the group and you would pick a fight with a random person or the first person within the group.

[Marauder Moe]

It'd wreak havoc with keywords, though.  You'd be forced to use the keyword command to figure out the order.

[Maybe42or54]

How would it wreak havoc with keywords?
Same keywords would apply.

[Forty Winks]

It'd wreak havoc with keywords, though.  You'd be forced to use the keyword command to figure out the order.

Be able to specify which group you would look in? For example, in a tavern, if you want to look at someone at the bar, could type 'look jane bar' or for someone at a table 'look joe circular/4 (for table #)'.

[Cyrian20]

How would it wreak havoc with keywords?
Same keywords would apply.

Because I look at the bar, see the guy that just mugged me and I decided to
take back my pack he stole and type subdue red (he is a red headed guy)
but I didn't take the time to look at every table in the room and I end up
tackling the red skinned girl at the ledge and get wanted.

I like the concept a little, but it really does seem like to much of a hassle.

[Maybe42or54]

What it could possibly look like with groups in the desert.

The large, blue-eyed man has a large group of thick and short, tall and skinny, and massive cloaked figures near him.

or

There is a large group of dwarves, humans, and elves behind the tall, bastard-looking human.

The Sdesc shown would be the person with everyone following them.

Look group

Then it would show it in this order:
Leader
First follower
First follower's followers
2 Follower of the leader
2nd follower's followers
etc.

[MorganChaos]

What about player-changed ldescs?

[Maybe42or54]

Well, I see what you are saying Cyrian. However, the Bar is listed before the individual tables, so most of the the time, your situation wouldn't happen.

We can always have subdue take into account more keywords, much like contact works.

[Armaddict]

Wow, this would be sweet for the 'hide skill hiding in a crowd' deal.

[Cyrian20]

Well, I see what you are saying Cyrian. However, the Bar is listed before the individual tables, so most of the the time, your situation wouldn't happen.

We can always have subdue take into account more keywords, much like contact works.

Ok what if he is at the table? and contact is a bit different because of it's
repercussions compared to wrongly typed subdue.

Now if you're trying to find someone it will be annoying
to look at each table, especially if we add in look echos for it. With that
being said, I would like to see something like this if they were say two or three
rooms away. l e [near] blah [far] blah [very far] a group of cloaked figures

Now don't get me wrong I am just playing devil's advocate so we can
discuss it thoroughly. I like the concept. Here are a few issues that popped up.
Now before answering each one individually (which I know someone is going
to do) think about if all your answers would work together as all these
problems exist at once.

1.What if some are elves and some are dwarves will we see height differences?

2. What about the dudes in the bright blue cloaks walking around with the
rinth rats in dark black ones? (this is important for a reason)

3. What about the guy with some sort of visible magick around him that would surely stick out?

4. How would this take into account mounts?

Going to go eat dinner and catch Art School Confidential so this is all the time I have.

To reiterate I am not in any way saying this is an openly bad idea, these are just issues
that pop in my head fairly instantly, and now my roommates are yelling so I must rush
and check for typos when I get back. If something doesn't make sense
I'll edit when I return shortly.

[Maybe42or54]

The leaders can set the General Ldesc for the entire group.

Here are some of the various ways we can accomplish that.

A large group of mostly mounted tall and short figures in blue and ebony cloaks are here.

A small group of unmounted grey, short and ebony, tall figures in cloaks are here.

A small group of mounted, white and ebony, tall and short figures stand here.

A large group of mounted, black and grey covered figures of tall and short statures is standing here.

A large, semi unmounted, grey, blue, and black covered, of thick and skinny statures is standing here, glowing balls of light over a couple's head.

A large group half mounted, figures in black and crimson cloaks, of various heights are standing here, a few with balls of light floating above their head and floating.

[Synthesis]

Putting the leader's sdesc as the only easily viewable ldesc would basically set the leader up for death, whenever some deadly encounter with other PCs came up.

Think about it...if you're an elf hiding 2 rooms south of the north road, and you see "The tall muscular man" and "a group of miscellaneous figures" ride by...who are you going to shoot your poisoned arrows at?  Probably the one with the obvious sdesc to target.

As far as letting the leader set the overall group sdesc...that looks even clunkier than having everyone's sdesc independent.  "A large group is here, composed of humans, dwarves and half-giants, some looking like mercenaries, a large number of which are wearing crimson and grey colors, notwithstanding the several toward the rear wearing silver and bright red."  I mean, seriously...at some point, these ldescs are going to start leaving things out or get ridiculously lengthy.  And a twink (or forgetful) leader could conveniently leave out the fact that his group consists of 3 half-giants, so you wouldn't know until you rode up and got snatched off your mount.

Furthermore, there's nothing so bad with the current state of affairs that would justify such a massive and (in my opinion annoying) change.  I like seeing people's sdescs all stacked up and cluttered.  It actually gives you a sense that you're -in- a crowd, since the text space is so crowded.

Nice try, but Nay again.

[Maybe42or54]

Personally, I find stacks of people annoying.
I don't want into a bar and see each person, I see the group on the dance floor, the group at the bar, and my group huddling in the corner reading comics.

The leader's wouldn't be able to put who is in the group, Ginka would do that.

As we get further, I don't relaly like the leader setting the sdesc either.
However, when you look at a group, it can show the ldescs.

[Cenghiz]

To tell the truth, I didn't like it. It's a very rare occurance that 30 people are at a bar or somewhere crowded, even then it's not usually a great annoyance for me. If it's a war in the desert, seeing every sdesc individually is nearly crucial.

I just personally would vote for keeping everything as is.

[spawnloser]

Interesting, but I don't like it.  I like seeing all the sdescs listed off...having the clutter, as has been said, gives me the feeling of crowded space and helps reinforce the illusion.

...also, I don't like the "group of people following so and so" bit at all.  It really does make that one person into a target more than ever.  If this went in, I would never lead a group of people arond in this game.

I can only imagine and despair at the permutations and all the complaints of things getting lost in the shuffle.

[Cyrian20]

The leaders can set the General Ldesc for the entire group.

Here are some of the various ways we can accomplish that.

A large group of mostly mounted tall and short figures in blue and ebony cloaks are here.

A small group of unmounted grey, short and ebony, tall figures in cloaks are here.

A small group of mounted, white and ebony, tall and short figures stand here.

A large group of mounted, black and grey covered figures of tall and short statures is standing here.

A large, semi unmounted, grey, blue, and black covered, of thick and skinny statures is standing here, glowing balls of light over a couple's head.

A large group half mounted, figures in black and crimson cloaks, of various heights are standing here, a few with balls of light floating above their head and floating.

touché

Nice concept I like it, still the matter with every person having a different mount
and every person having a different cloak (such as when us indies are hunting
together) creating a 90 line desc.

[Xygax]

You could use the already-existing "keyword" command to figure out who you're about to interact with, if you're worried about subduing someone from the wrong group, also.

This is an interesting idea (maybe only enabled for people running in "brief" mode).

-- X

[Tamarin]

I really, really like the 'grouped at a table' idea.  This means you will actually have to come in off the street and look through a tavern to figure out who's there, as you would in real life.  So you see 'a group of people sitting at the bar'.  So you...

>look at bar

or

>l tables

You get the list of who's there, and you're all set.  Use keyword to select your target (which most people do anyway), and you're golden.  It's a perfect system.

[Morgenes]

I as well would like to throw in my support for the grouped at table/furniture idea.  It would have to be smart enough to show when it's just one or two people, but I'd say three or more is a fair number to start showing the grouping instead of the individuals.

[Xygax]

And half-giants should probably stand out regardless of "group"ings like this, I would think.

-- X

[John]

This is an interesting idea (maybe only enabled for people running in "brief" mode).

Call me elitist, but I wouldn't want to see any more "brief mode" perks. People go to a lot of efforts in the room desc, I'll have them spam me, even if I do rarely read them.

[LoD]

There's a fine line between areas where the text exists for the benefit of the player and where it exists to demonstrate what the character can see.

For example, the code purposefully removes the sdesc of people who are hiding or invisible unless the character has the ability to see them.  Groups of people provide no such magickal properties, and I'd rather leave whether or not you recognize or make someone out up to the player.  I think this is a great idea to add for groups of people at a distance, but anything in the same room should be displayed as it always has.

This would allow groups of riders in the sands to retain a bit of menace and mystery while not lending them some kind of coded advantage when they actually close the distance.  It would also grant a small degree of anonymity to folks clumped in large gatherings to those that are viewing from a distance.  This would also be another nice area for the "watch" command should a character want to view the individuals (rather than the groups) from a distance.  Have there be a chance that "watch" doesn't pick up all the people within a group dependant upon the level of the skill.

Dusty Alley [EWS]
>look south

To the south, you see:
A small group of people seated at a bar.
A large group of people are standing here.

>watch south
You begin watching south.

>look south

To the south you see:
The one-eyed, rugged man leaning against the bar.
The fluffy-haired, pink-skinned elf is here, sitting at the bar.
The old, bull-necked dwarf leans against the bar here.
The pale, black-tattooed man is here, scowling.
The rotund, rosy cheeked woman is here, serving drinks.
The willowy, one armed man is here, plotting to frame a doctor.
The stout, black haired woman is here, plucking chin hairs.

>south

Old Dingy Tavern [N]
This is an old dingy tavern.
The one-eyed, rugged man leaning against the bar.
The sun-bronzed, white-haired man is here, sitting at the bar.
The fluffy-haired, pink-skinned elf is here, sitting at the bar.
The old, bull-necked dwarf leans against the bar here.
The pale, black-tattooed man is here, scowling.
The rotund, rosy cheeked woman is here, serving drinks.
The burly, square jawed man stands here, surveying the tavern.
The willowy, one armed man is here, plotting to frame a doctor.
The stout, black haired woman is here, plucking chin hairs.

I prefer to see ldesc's when I am in the same room so that I can see how they are sitting/standing and decide if my character:

A) Can see them.
B) Would notice them.
C) Has a reason to notice them.

Lumping people into groups would be OOC for certain activities.  What if you were at some kind of show and there were a large group of people standing together doing various eye-catching and noticeable things:

A small group of people can be seen standing here.

OR

The swarthy, black-haired man is here, breathing fire.
The coppery skinned woman kneels here, juggling glow crystals.
The massive, broad shouldered mul is here, lifting a massive stone.

I shouldn't have to "look group" as the player to notice what people are doing and react accordingly if they are in the same room as I am.  This idea could make for some interesting situations regarding distance, but I wouldn't ever want to see it implemented to operate in the same room.

-LoD

[spawnloser]

Make the code do it, eliminating player control over how 'groups' look.

Make it only work from a distance.

HG's stand out period, or part of their own group. (There are a couple half-giants standing over there.)

Don't have it have anything to do with 'groups' like who is following who.  This could get interesting when someone is following someone and really shouldn't be 'part of the group' per se.

I could accept this sort of idea under these conditions.

Editted to add: Oh, yeah, and people sitting at tables...group them up too.

[Aldiel]

To tell the truth, I didn't like it. It's a very rare occurance that 30 people are at a bar or somewhere crowded, even then it's not usually a great annoyance for me. If it's a war in the desert, seeing every sdesc individually is nearly crucial.

I just personally would vote for keeping everything as is.

*chuckle* This is very true.  I don't mind the bar idea, but the problem is outside of the bar.  And even in the bar, I think it would take so long to find someone that it might get annoying.  Besides, this would require me to emote even more, and I'm already getting arthritis from what I have to emote.

Edit: Although it might be cool to actually try and find someone in a crowd like that.