Sandstorms and Teeth

[Larrath]

I really tend to get upset when I think about Zalanthas' sandstorms and the way they're treated by most of the playerbase.  These sandstorms are lethal, they're not just annoying.  As nice as thick sandcloth can get, I don't think it's enough to really protect someone from a full-on sandstorm, either.
It would be similar to fighting a mekillot in thin hide armor as opposed to fighting it naked.

I'd like to bring these two changes for discussion:

1. All sandstorms in all locations in the game will be cut down by half in frequency and last for shorter periods of time, especially in the higher levels.

2. Sandstorms will deal damage on a per-time basis (as with a combat round).  Desert_Hide could be used to look for shelter against the storm, which would lessen the damage.
1st level sandstorms (blowing sand scattering) would deal no damage.
2nd level storms (stinging sand) would deal 1 or 2 damage every 10-15 RL seconds.
3rd level sandstorms (harsh, biting storms) would deal 3-5 damage every 10-15 seconds.
More powerful sandstorms could deal up to 10 damage every 10-15 seconds.

This can be coupled with more ways to protect oneself from a sandstorm, in addition to Desert_Hide.  Magickers and templars could get a suitable spell, and mundane PCs could have more things to cower around in the open, such as cacti.  Maybe PCs could even do that thing where you bury yourself in the sand until the storm flows over or what-not, which would take Stamina and induce thirst but negate the damage.

Opinions?

[Manhattan]

zalanthan sandstorms should reflect those humongo grandmother of all storms from Dune.

[Cegar]

No no no. Dune's environment is completely different and the ecological erosion is much more prevailent than on Zalanthas. For playability and realism reasons, it would be silly to make common storms deal damage. Maybe the HIGHEST levels of storms in the deep desert would deal damage, but certainly not enough to kill you within a minute. Those sandstorms that run through modern day deserts won't kill you (unless it's one of the worst in history and you're completely exposed... naked.), that's for sure.

[Hymwen]

I don't like the idea of dying from a sandstorm. Especially since they often render you unable to do anything else.

Perhaps stun damage?

[Manhattan]

man, I thought it was called Armageddon for a reason. it's a dead world, isn't it?

[Cegar]

Not nearly as dead as Dune. There's a fucking forest after all.

[Larrath]

Those sandstorms that run through modern day deserts won't kill you.

A strong sandstorm in an Earth desert can kill you, either by suffocation/filling your throat with sand or by ripping the flesh off of your bones.  Ever see a building get sandblasted by cleaners?
Sandstorms are a lot of tiny grains of sand flying at a huge velocity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO0_mX6EeOQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s25DDGaIrbw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4CcQbVFNxk

Zalanthas gets worse sandstorms and usually faster winds.

Anyway, under 10 hp per 10-15 seconds (as a guideline, mind you) probably isn't enough to kill someone in a minute.  In practice, I think it would just make people hurry back and/or be more cautious about riding out during or into a sandstorm.
Of course, this would also need a better weather system to let people predict when a sandstorm is brewing.

[Majikal]

I would like to see something along the lines of actually needing to shield yourself from the storm or take some kind of penalty. The 'hiding' to find cover from the storm sounds pretty cool and allows alot of playability. Maybe even take a step further and allow rangers to have an ability to sense sandstorms before they come. Making their use as guides all the more useful.

[Jherlen]

I hope you don't want sandstorms to damage you inside cities, too. We're just talking about the deserts, right?

Going idle or dropping link in a storm would suck, if they started damaging you. Maybe linkdead/idle people coule be immune after a certain amount of time.

I think that items like cloaks (if the hood is up) and facewraps should protect against this, somewhat.

All in all, I'm neutral.

[Cegar]

Those sandstorms that run through modern day deserts won't kill you.

A strong sandstorm in an Earth desert can kill you, either by suffocation/filling your throat with sand or by ripping the flesh off of your bones.  Ever see a building get sandblasted by cleaners?
Sandstorms are a lot of tiny grains of sand flying at a huge velocity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO0_mX6EeOQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s25DDGaIrbw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4CcQbVFNxk

Not to get combatative, but of course they can cause damage if you're bare in a desert. I noted that. However, generally, even the bad desert sandstorms won't seriously damage a person (one who is in the proper attire). The sandstorms in Zalanthas aren't the sandstorms of Dune. The sandstorms of Dune blew for hundreds of kilometers with winds well over the speeds of even the worst of the Zalanthan storms.

[bloodfromstone]

My primary concern is that this would effectively screw non-rangers even harder. If a poor non-ranger did get stuck in a nasty storm, they'd be left stumbling around and losing their bearings while the storm ripped them to pieces, when a ranger guild could just walk out of it like it was nothing.

Other than being a little hesitant to give rangers even more advantages, I have nothing against seeing sandstorms made scarier. Especially if they're less frequent.

[cyberpatrol_735]

Not until..

> weather north
Far away to the north, a large sandstorm rips the land as it moves south.

> think SHIT!
>run
>sss

Anyway.. it could also be..

> weather north
Very far off, a massive sandstorm rips through the land as it moves eastward.

>think Whew.. safe.

And then when typing "weather"

You'd see

Very far off, a massive sandstorm rips through the land.
It wouldn't tell you which direction it was going.

[Larrath]

In open desert only, not in cities.

And yes, I agree the change would need some modification to the Weather system in order to be effective.

About screwing non-rangers, I really think rangers would be screwed just as badly by it.  Getting lost in a deadly sandstorm is realistic to me, but maybe it's not much of a good idea for playability.  Hmm.

[Forty Winks]

The current weather system is good enough for this to be implemented. It just doesn't tell you straight out there's a sandstorm approaching, it notifies you in other ways.

For the thing about making the ranger guild more stronger than it is, I would only think it would make the guild more accurate. Those not familiar with the ways of the desert shouldn't be able to handle themselves out there in the harshest of weathers or for long durations of time. Perhaps giving certain subguild the similar benefits that the ranger guild has would even this out, but I wouldn't mind it being harder to survive in sandstorms.

That said, having sandstorms occur at less frequency just because it can cause potential damage shouldn't happen. The majority of Zalanthas -is- a desert, and those parts that aren't still aren't the most vegitative places. Instead of taking damage, I wouldn't mind having stun loss instead. With the worst sandstorms, you're stun may drop at a decent rate, but for the average sandstorm you would still be able to notice the effects of the storm without suffering too much. Either that or give greater endurance penalties for moving through the storm.

[UnderSeven]

I'm sorry when was the last time you were caught in a sandstorm?  They're pretty scary with the newer sandstorm code in.  Yeah.. Really scary.  I'm not going to say just what they do, but I've been afraid for my chars life on more than one occasoin for being caught in one.

[Malifaxis]

Cegar, as someone who has first handedly experienced a southwestern sandstorm in the US (which, granted, is nothing in comparison to arabian sandstorms or zalanthan sandstorms), I can tell you with absolute truth that the fuckers hurt.

I was in one for maybe five minutes before I could no longer breath, and if I had not gotten in to the car, I have no doubt that it would have gotten much, much worse.  My skin stung for days afterwards where it was exposed.

This, I would like to reiterate, is a southwestern US sandstorm.  Not a serious, massive painfest of zalanthan proportions.

[Hymwen]

Were you wearing a thick cloak, gloves, a facewrap and deep hood?

Seriously though, no doubt sandstorms are rough, but Zalanthans would be used to it much more so than you. I'm not sure how this would work in regards to NPCs too - wouldn't they kinda die? I'd hate to walk outside after a bad storm and see NPC bodies all over the place as if it was the 'rinth.

I still say that stun damage would be better. A non-ranger getting caught outside in a sandstorm would mean certain death unless he somehow found shelter (without being able to move and see) or if the sandstorm didn't last long enough for him to die.

[Synthesis]

The only way to make sandstorms more than a lame nuisance is to make them outright deadly.

Which is to say, to go from bad to worse.

Get rid of them altogether, I say, feh.

[Maybe42or54]

1st level sandstorms (blowing sand scattering) would deal no damage.
2nd level storms (stinging sand) would deal 1 or 2 damage every 10-15 RL seconds.
3rd level sandstorms (harsh, biting storms) would deal 3-5 damage every 10-15 seconds.
More powerful sandstorms could deal up to 10 damage every 10-15 seconds.

Seconds! I'd spamwalk my ass right out of that storm. The storms would kill every NPC in the area. And that would suck.

[Cegar]

Do words in parenthesis not show up on the forum or what?

[amoeba]

A strong sandstorm in an Earth desert can kill you, either by suffocation/filling your throat with sand or by ripping the flesh off of your bones.

BS.  Show me -one- documented incident of someone dying directly as of the result of a sandstorm, other than car wrecks.  Dramatic looking pictures do not equate to death, just discomfort.

I would rather see -effective- room echo's when there is a harsh sandstorm rolling through.  Death due to code, especially when movement is severly impacted already is not cool.  This would also effectively kill off many people being in the wilds. Making it even harder to raid or even get any interaction in the sands.  It may sound cool, but the playablity factor is not real great.

[Cyrian20]

I have no opinion on this because I am still weighing the pros and cons of some suggestions. Would like to add though that I would hate to lose link (I play on my laptop and the wireless loses packets sometimes which is a bane to telnet type apps) and die in the desert because I was taking some dmg. Right now they are pretty scary to none rangers.

  I have within the last two weeks had a character 4 rooms from the eastern gates of 'nak actually end up falling off the shield wall because the storm just wouldn't let them back. So they can still be quite deadly.


  I can see the rp potential in going around storms and what not. What about my ranger who quits out in the desert though and logs in during a tremendous storm. Again that would be a very very bad way to die and would happen quite frequently.

[Larrath]

A strong sandstorm in an Earth desert can kill you, either by suffocation/filling your throat with sand or by ripping the flesh off of your bones.

BS.  Show me -one- documented incident of someone dying directly as of the result of a sandstorm, other than car wrecks.  Dramatic looking pictures do not equate to death, just discomfort.

http://lists.envirolink.org/pipermail/ar-news/Week-of-Mon-20040329/022673.html
The above link addresses a sandstorm in China, in an article covered by the Washington Times.  3,000 cows were killed by a sandstorm, and I imagine that if a sandstorm can kill something as robust as an ox, it can kill a human wearing some thick cloths, too.

I would rather see -effective- room echo's when there is a harsh sandstorm rolling through.  Death due to code, especially when movement is severly impacted already is not cool.  This would also effectively kill off many people being in the wilds. Making it even harder to raid or even get any interaction in the sands.  It may sound cool, but the playablity factor is not real great.

Point taken.

Carry on with the discussion everyone, and keep it civil.  Woohoo.

[amoeba]

A strong sandstorm in an Earth desert can kill you, either by suffocation/filling your throat with sand or by ripping the flesh off of your bones.

BS.  Show me -one- documented incident of someone dying directly as of the result of a sandstorm, other than car wrecks.  Dramatic looking pictures do not equate to death, just discomfort.

http://lists.envirolink.org/pipermail/ar-news/Week-of-Mon-20040329/022673.html
The above link addresses a sandstorm in China, in an article covered by the Washington Times.  3,000 cows were killed by a sandstorm, and I imagine that if a sandstorm can kill something as robust as an ox, it can kill a human wearing some thick cloths, too.

Bear with me for being the sceptic, but the story is not there, the link to the full story is dead.  Considering the -paragraph- stated the temeperatures were below freezing, the deaths were probably not the result of death by sandblasting.  I don't mind the discussion, but I prefer seeing statements made with hard facts rather than conjecture.

This point notwithstanding, conditions on Zalathous would be different.  Still playablity is more importiant than quasi-reality.  Give some nice dramatic echos to remind us what is going on and let roleplay flesh out the rest.

[Anonymous]

I hate x-ref, so, I'll just dupe.

I don't like the idea of making sandstorms in the game lethal simply because of the following:

1) you force rangers who are stuck in them to logout and not play the game in order to survive

2) the code does not give realistic OOC notice enough for people to avoid sandstorms or get someplace safe before they hit

3) There are numerous problems with detecting where/when a sandstorm is raging.

I would, however, suggest that attempting to -move- during a sandstorm should cause damage to give people some form of pretense that they had the means to hunker down somehow and survive it out.  Or maybe link the ability to not get screwed in a storm to some type of object, be it clothing, a mount type, or a tent - However, this type of item needs to be more available to travelling types who may have survival skills but not a lot of 'sid - or else nomadic types and travelling types become unplayable in their entirety.