Combat skill limitations

[skeetdaddle]

I can see the reasoning behind the code. I think it's good. Fighting is hard, it wears you out, sure. The thing I don't like about this change is that just plain ol' fighting doesn't wear you out. Only the fancy maneuvers do. I think if the idea is for more realism, then just fighting should make you tired too.

Does anyone here participate in the Society for Creative Anachronism? This is an international group that recreates all things medeival. They dress in real armor (plate mail, chain, etc.) and beat the crap out of eachother with padded swords. I tried this once and was dead tired just from swinging a padded sword around after 15 minutes. The people that had been doing this for years were dripping with sweat after a half an hour. And this was without kicking and bashing and disarming eachother. I would be all for this code change, as long as everyone's stam dropped when in combat, fancy moves or no. I also think to balance this, it would be nice to see some stam regen while standing still. You -can- catch your breath while standing, it's just nicer on the knees to do it sitting down.

[Morgenes]

I can see the reasoning behind the code. I think it's good. Fighting is hard, it wears you out, sure. The thing I don't like about this change is that just plain ol' fighting doesn't wear you out. Only the fancy maneuvers do. I think if the idea is for more realism, then just fighting should make you tired too.

Edited to include jhunter's quote:

Except that this change pretty much -only- makes those of the warrior guild -have- to think more about combat, and when to get out of combat. The others, (except for the -few- using a subguild that gives them kick) don't have to change anything about how they deal with melee.

To both of you, I say:

We aren't done yet.

[jhunter]

I can see the reasoning behind the code. I think it's good. Fighting is hard, it wears you out, sure. The thing I don't like about this change is that just plain ol' fighting doesn't wear you out. Only the fancy maneuvers do. I think if the idea is for more realism, then just fighting should make you tired too.

We aren't done yet.

Still, I think it would've been better to come up with a plan to lay it all across the board instead of mostly hitting one guild first without getting the others.

[Morgenes]

Still, I think it would've been better to come up with a plan to lay it all across the board instead of mostly hitting one guild first without getting the others.

Who says we didn't have a plan?  Believe me, I have been thinking about doing this for a long time.

[Yokunama]

Still, I think it would've been better to come up with a plan to lay it all across the board instead of mostly hitting one guild first without getting the others.

As I've mentioned before, this stamina drain does not hit one class only.:wink:

... Bob probably should've fled right away and not attempted a single kick, bash, or disarm. This is because of the new code. This is why I don't like it. You now have to be either super prepared and in just the right situation to practice your skills as a warrior, or not use them at all for fear of it costing you greatly in the end...

You do not have to be prepared, if you are going to play combative character, but a bit more cautious about situations and using your speacial combat moves. Also, add -stragety- to your gameplay.

People who recklessly overuse their skills will be the only ones at a real disadvantage.

[LoD]

Still, I think it would've been better to come up with a plan to lay it all across the board instead of mostly hitting one guild first without getting the others.

J -- stop poking Morg with a stick, he's going to get surly.  As they've said, there has been a lot of planning and thought put behind these changes that are going to play out.  If changes are warranted, they will be made.  Hounding the Imms about their choice to put it into the game isn't going to change anything except perhaps their perceptions of your criticism.

Lots of data to collect yet.  Give it some time and see how it plays out.

-LoD

[Intrepid]

This post and similar ones are not indicative of the entire playerbase's
reaction to the new code.  It's just a handful of the same people
objecting who have done so from the very beginning.  Guys, no matter
how much you write about this topic, it isn't going to be changing.  The
imms want this in place, some of your fellow players have given a
wholehearted thumbs up.

You're beating a dead horse.  Could someone please lock this thread?

[Maybe42or54]

Still, I think it would've been better to come up with a plan to lay it all across the board instead of mostly hitting one guild first without getting the others.

Who says we didn't have a plan?  Believe me, I have been thinking about doing this for a long time.

Scary.

[spawnloser]

Not just warriors are getting 'screwed' as some think.  Keep reading.

[Aldiel]

I can see the reasoning behind the code. I think it's good. Fighting is hard, it wears you out, sure. The thing I don't like about this change is that just plain ol' fighting doesn't wear you out. Only the fancy maneuvers do. I think if the idea is for more realism, then just fighting should make you tired too.

Edited to include jhunter's quote:

Except that this change pretty much -only- makes those of the warrior guild -have- to think more about combat, and when to get out of combat. The others, (except for the -few- using a subguild that gives them kick) don't have to change anything about how they deal with melee.

To both of you, I say:

We aren't done yet.

I just want to let you guys know, I really like what you're doing with the skills.  I think it is inevitable that you will run into people who disagree at first because the changes are so drastic, but they are essential and long-awaited on my part.  I look forward to seeing more of them.  I always felt like stamina should play a stronger role in combat.  I'd actually like to see fighting use up stamina too, or have a chance to use up stamina depending on the weapons weight.

[jhunter]

Still, I think it would've been better to come up with a plan to lay it all across the board instead of mostly hitting one guild first without getting the others.

As I've mentioned before, this stamina drain does not hit one class only.:wink:

... Bob probably should've fled right away and not attempted a single kick, bash, or disarm. This is because of the new code. This is why I don't like it. You now have to be either super prepared and in just the right situation to practice your skills as a warrior, or not use them at all for fear of it costing you greatly in the end...

You do not have to be prepared, if you are going to play combative character, but a bit more cautious about situations and using your speacial combat moves. Also, add -stragety- to your gameplay.

People who recklessly overuse their skills will be the only ones at a real disadvantage.

Take note of the underlined part in bold text. Your point is a very very very miniscule point. So small that it is almost completely irrelevant to the issue. The other guilds don't have -any- of those skills to use in melee without the addition of a subguild that includes -kick- and only kick. The others would be a special application and would be pretty few and far between in their existance.
You don't have to abuse it for it you use your stamina, that is still a disadvantage to those who didn't abuse it IMO.

J -- stop poking Morg with a stick, he's going to get surly. As they've said, there has been a lot of planning and thought put behind these changes that are going to play out. If changes are warranted, they will be made. Hounding the Imms about their choice to put it into the game isn't going to change anything except perhaps their perceptions of your criticism.

Lots of data to collect yet. Give it some time and see how it plays out.

-LoD

All I was saying is that I'm not happy about it and I've given many reasons for it. Many reasons that are realistic reasons of why it shouldn't be done the way it is. There are even more reasons but I would have to go into numbers and I cannot do that here. There are also other reasons but I can't go into the skills and abilities of certain guilds either. I'm merely voicing the ones that I'm allowed to here.
It hasn't been my intentions to come across as unappreciative of the staff's efforts to improve the game. I feel however, that this improves it in -one- minor way at the expense of others.
As far as give it time, I don't really have any choice in the matter except to refuse to play the guild until it is balanced back out again.

Who says we didn't have a plan? Believe me, I have been thinking about doing this for a long time.

That's not what I meant exactly Morg. What I mean is that I think it would've been better to implement a standard across the board for -all- guilds instead of putting in the change for one first and doing it a piece at a time. Currently it is left unrealistic and unbalanced until the rest of the changes go in. As someone else said and I agree as well, if stamina is going to be a factor in melee combat it should be a factor in melee for -everyone- regardless of guild.
And no, I'm not trying to be a jerk or unappreciative of the efforts but when nothing has been done to give a stamina drain at all to the other -main- guilds when in -melee- it seems much more that it was put in place to keep the twinks from spamming them than to add realism.
Now, if I were to ever play a warrior again I'd have to worry about stamina with the guild in melee where as nothing has changed for the others -when in melee-.
If it is going to be implemented to make anyone worry about stamina in melee it should be that -everyone- has to worry about it.
Now, I understand that you say you aren't done yet. Again, all I was stating was that I think it would've made more sense to hold off on it until you had a system (regarding melee) to put into place for -all- guilds at the -same- time.
It's not the addition in itself that I don't like, in fact I think it's a cool idea to make stamina count when in melee and to make people have to fight smarter. If people were spamming them and twinking the skills, then great this will help with that. (Although I personally haven't seen it enough to make me think that it was a problem bad enough to merit a code change specifically to stop it.) But, it should affect -everyone- while they are in melee and not mainly the warrior guild.

[Dakurus]

This discussion is going nowhere.
The pros and cons have been bludgeoned with the ease of replies.
Locking.