Arm-specific descriptions are out of hand...

[Anonymous]

post deleted

[Bestatte]

Webster's unabridged says:

"See exsanguious."

Online Medical dictionary has a reference to "exsanguineous" (with that e after the second n) and Webster's also has the same as an alternate spelling (but you have to know to look up that alternate spelling to get the spelling, because spelling it "exsanguinous" returns only "See exsanguious."

[Packersfan]

Now how about incredibly ooc words in sdescs, such as coffee-dark? I think they should not be allowed at all, and I think that anything that can't be found in the online helpfiles should not be used in sdescs. It is not fair to have a new player read all of the docs and still not be familiar with an immportant part of a character's apperance.

[Larrath]

OOC words have been stated to be acceptable as long as they don't break the atmosphere of the game, which is a low-fantasy, low-tech, no-metal desolate desert setting.

Words that relate to serious amount of coldness (frigid, frosty, snowy) are generally bad, though Icy, Cool and Cold are still good.  But no references to any icebergs or wave-filled oceans.

Anything sci-fi or any complex non-Zalanthan machinery is definitely bad - even if your character can somehow project a beam of concentrated light, don't go calling it a laser.

Coffee, humus, chocolate, olive, terracotta et cetera are all great, and you might find that some of these things actually exist in-game... to my partial displeasure, I might add, but a fact is a fact.

It's also much better to refer to Zalanthan animals instead of their Earthling counterparts - pounce like a rantarri, not a leopard, and charge like a carru.  Some of these things sadly do require a certain amount of IC knowledge, but it's still possible to explain and understand if the describer puts in reasonable effort.

[Kelogasi]

As a completely green player with less than 5 hours of playtime, I honestly find some of these player descriptions confusing.

You have to keep your expectations realistic. I simply cannot keep tabbing through the Arm command help listing trying to find out how to get a few coins out of my pack to get a drink of water, respond to attempts at communication from other players, "Roleplay", and still be expected to figure out what color Jihae (to use one example) is when a quick Google and Dictionary.com search of the term turns up nothing.

On the other hand, lots of characters I came across were immediately apparent to me from their short descriptions:

<snipped per request>

Being completely new to MUDs, the first link I clicked was "Introductory Information" and went from there. I read the vast majority of the links through there and created a character in Tuluk. I never came across the table of Armageddon plant life during those pages.

I suppose you could call it my fault for not being sufficiently thorough, but there's an awful lot of information that a new player needs to assimilate to even begin interacting with the population. Without constant prodding from a couple of the players I know in real life, I would have logged off after about an hour of play and never looked back.

Food for thought, ladies and gentlemen.

[aruna]

Now how about incredibly ooc words in sdescs, such as coffee-dark?

How do you know coffee doesn't exist in the game?  There are all kinds of things out there - you might be surprised.  And even if it doesn't,  I'm willing to bet most people know what coffee looks like.

I'm of the opinion (with others) that having any and all words that newbies may or may not be familiar with barred from use in your descriptions is pretty silly. One of the best ways to learn is by reading descriptions and being exposed to new information in game. I do, however, think things can be taken too far. If someone is putting so many obscure words and arm-related terms in their descriptions as to make it comepletely unreadable without looking everything up, I think that's definately pushing it.

I think a good compromise would be to say that if a character was born, lives and spends all or most of their time in one region of the world, it might make sense to limit world-based terminology in descriptions to that region. This would help limit the amount of confusing references to one area, and at that an area where most people who come in contact with your character will be familiar with.

Granted, I certainly don't believe this should be a -rule-, but it's something to think about.

Just use common sense, and everything is a-ok by me.

[LauraMars]

Whoops, not to stomp on your post, but you shouldn't post people's sdescs, Kelogasi.

[Kelogasi]

Doh! Sorry about that. Fixed. : (

[Many Faces]

My personal pet peeve is eyes in sdesc.  Ridiculous, and unneeded.  In fact, it's downright shortsighted to have eyes in your sdesc.

As for colors, man, I don't know why you have such a problem with it, davien.

Just seems like a stupid hang up to have... especially since it's someone else's character.

I guess the point I'm rambling here is worry about your character.  Worry about how your character looks.  That guy over there?  mansa?  He's playing the bahamet-eyed, tenneshi-haired man.  So what, let him play it if he's enjoying it.

I don't like 'eyed' in my sdecs, so I don't use them.  Some people do.  More power to them, if they''re enjoying it, I'll just contain my annoyance and hope the character depth lacks up for it.  I don't let it bother me, though.

[jhunter]

I have no problem with the use of just about anything in someone's sdesc as long as it is used correctly. It's also courteous if you are going to use a Zalanthan term to describe something, that you describe in simpler terms what it is exactly in your main description. (For the newbies)

I also have no problem with "odd" words that I don't know the meaning of being used. In fact, looking them up just because I never saw them before caused me to learn something.

*GASP* God forbid I had to look something up and actually -learn- something while playing a game!

Oh no! I went and -read- some of the documentation that I -never- would have if that elitist prick wouldn't of used that word just to make me feel dumb!!
:roll:

Give me a break people. The people complaining about this are just being lazy.

[LauraMars]

Hmm, there's nothing wrong with being creative.  I tend to have a disconnect between the made-up Zalanthan words and the colors they are intended to represent, but all that really matters is that I'm able to recognize that person when I see them again, and they're saying hi.  An image of them will form gradually, if not, they died too quickly.  No big loss.

I'm not a fan of eyes in short descriptions either.  But really, it's just a preference.  I think sdescs are as much of an ooc construct as an ic one.

Doh! Sorry about that. Fixed. : (

 It's ok.  Welcome.

[Larrath]

Give me a break people. The people complaining about this are just being lazy.

First of all, one MAJOR distinction:
I have no problem whatsoever with people that rummage through a dictionary and thesaurus and use the most obscure words they can find.  I think it can get ridiculous, but that's not my problem and it doesn't upset me.  It is also not the point of this thread.

This thread solely discusses people using obscure Arm-specific terms being used, sometimes excessively, without being explained.  This alienates new players and makes the game much harder for them to get into, because looking up 'Cunyati' when you're still struggling to learn what Borsail means is not that easy.  And don't forget that many new players don't even know they CAN look up 'Cunyati' in the documentations.

This has nothing to do with laziness.  This is about being newbie-friendly, which this MUD is supposed to be.
With newbies, live and let live or I will kill you.


And welcome to Armageddon, Keloggs-usagi!  Feel free to contact me or any other Helper if you have any questions.

[moab]

And while you're all about labeling people as being elitist, get a clue:

  1. The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.
  2.
        1. The sense of entitlement enjoyed by such a group or class.
        2. Control, rule, or domination by such a group or class.

I don't believe that I'm an elitist.
I believe people should try their best to use words properly and when considering a word they don't know, they should look it up.

I'm not the one going about labeling people for having small or large vocabularies.

This should give you pause to think.

I'm not even sure that the word "elitist" is being used  properly here.

Do you mean that large vocabularies are used by some Arm players to keep the other Arm players at bay?

Or do you mean that you don't understand what I'm saying (though my words are correct?

I think that using words incorrectly is a moot point. It shouldn't be done. We all agree on that.

[jhunter]

This thread solely discusses people using obscure Arm-specific terms being used, sometimes excessively, without being explained. This alienates new players and makes the game much harder for them to get into, because looking up 'Cunyati' when you're still struggling to learn what Borsail means is not that easy. And don't forget that many new players don't even know they CAN look up 'Cunyati' in the documentations.

The Jihae-haired <foo>

The horta-eyed <bar>

The ginka-fingered <baz>

Does anyone else think this degree of theme-specifics might be making the game a little less accessible to new players?

There are times when white, gray, black, brown, blue, and slender still apply, eh?

Sorry Larrath, but that's -not- what the original poster said. My point was that so long as people -are- explaining it then it is just fine and it -is- being lazy if they can't read the pc's main description to find out what it is. -Most- people do explain in further detail in the main description. You just have to -read- it.
I -highly- doubt we've lost new players for something as simple as "someone used a word they didn't understand in their sdesc". And if we did? If something that small would turn them away from the game...I could care less.

[moab]

This is about being newbie-friendly, which this MUD is supposed to be.

This mud is certainly not about the players.
This mud is certainly not about being newbie friendly.

I've never heard any staff say this mud is a "newbie friendly" mud or that it should be.

Where do you get this stuff?

[Anonymous]

This mud is certainly not about the players.
This mud is certainly not about being newbie friendly.

I've never heard any staff say this mud is a "newbie friendly" mud or that it should be.

Where do you get this stuff?

Then have fun playing by yourself (alone, that is) in the tavern.

Because I will guarantee you that people will eventually get bored of this game and stop playing it.  Without having the capacity to attract new players, every game dies.

[LauraMars]

Where do you get this stuff?

http://www.mudconnect.com/mud-bin/adv_search.cgi?Mode=MUD&mud=Armageddon

It says so in that link.  If it is incorrect someone should update it.

[moab]

LOL.  :-D

Well, then it's wrong.

The emote language is enough to show that.

[moab]

Then have fun playing by yourself (alone, that is) in the tavern.
Because I will guarantee you that people will eventually get bored of this game and stop playing it.  Without having the capacity to attract new players, every game dies.

Yeah people (including me) have been saying that for years. Hasn't happened yet.

[Anonymous]

because some of us invite friends to play and very carefully explain things to them in spite of people like you.

[Larrath]

Sorry Larrath, but that's -not- what the original poster said. My point was that so long as people -are- explaining it then it is just fine and it -is- being lazy if they can't read the pc's main description to find out what it is. -Most- people do explain in further detail in the main description. You just have to -read- it.

First of all, the thread developed.  Second, all I have been saying is that when people use an Arm-specific term, they should also explain it, even with a single word, in their mdesc.  We don't seem to have any disagreement.

I -highly- doubt we've lost new players for something as simple as "someone used a word they didn't understand in their sdesc". And if we did? If something that small would turn them away from the game...I could care less.

First of all, you might be surprised.  Most new players have a very hard time getting into Arm, and these added frustrations all add in.  I don't want lazy players more than anyone else, but new players need to be helped and encouraged instead of feeling inferior and under-valued.
This is why I'm a Helper.  Nobody has to be a Helper, but the least you can do, if you want Arm to keep developing and have new generations of players, is to not interrupt our helping efforts.  Old players leave MUDs continually, without a flow of new players that learn and gain experience, a MUD can't last very long.

Note that the above isn't directed at anyone in particular, though the few who take advantage of new players know who they are.

[moab]

because some of us invite friends to play and very carefully explain things to them in spite of people like you.

In spite of people like me?

What, that I use a vocabulary and read discriptions and look words up? Isn't what this is all about?

What do you mean, people like me?

[LauraMars]

Yeah, let's get rid of the helpers while we're at it.  They don't do anything for newbies.

Every mud is about the players, moab.  You can't have muds without players.  That's silly.

This thread is on serious crash course to derail.  Shall we split it off and continue the discussion of the merits of no new players? (ha...hahahahah)

[Many Faces]

Hey, I got an idea, lets all chill!

Okay, all you horta-balled and skelebain-breasted (picture a White Zombie album cover, kthx) people out there... sauce up your emotes a bit, with terms like 'brown' and shit that people understand.

And moab, yeah, Armageddon isn't about being newbie friendly... but most folks can spot a newbie within 5 mins if they've been around the Arm block for a while.  While you don't have to be friendly, you can *easily* go out of your way to make sure they have a bit of fucking understanding, capice?

A lot of people see a newbie as a walking coinpurse, and that's just fucking wrong.  Newbies need help.  You were one, we all were, and somewhere along the line WE ALL GOT HELP.

You're creative, help in IC ways.  Meet a newbie in a bar?  Get your PC a bit drunk and then ask this newbie to walk home with you and act all friendly, blabber on about just random factual crap that a newbie might not know.  See a newbie sitting, exhausted, on Templar's Way because they're dehydrated?  Score a deal with them where they give you a week's service because you give them a full waterskin.

They'll probably thank you for it, and you have the added bonus of not being a complete ass to someone who might not even know what the word 'permadeath' means yet.[/b]

[spawnloser]

Well, then it's wrong.

The emote language is enough to show that.

Heh, I see where this could be construed as not newbie friendly, but there is a good amount of documentation on how the emote structure works, as well as plenty of people willing to help the newbies.  We have many resources for newbies, in general, making the community newbie-friendly.  We can try to uphold this by not making the game any more dense and difficult to pick up on than it already is, perhaps even teaching by using the term, but explaining it as well, hmm?