Whoa!

[Larrath]

This from Sanvean's blog.

GEEK ALERT GEEK ALERT

I finally put together the details of the clan rotations and posted them today. Here's some details for the gossip-minded Armageddonites.


Benefits of going to this clan rotation system, which I want to try for two years.
*Easier clan running. Raesanos's request tool should also help with this immensely.
*Broadening the staff's overall knowledge of the game.
*Making clan transitions smoother for staff and players.
*Standardizing the ways in which we run clans.

Other Notes:
We're going to keep Haruch Kemad and Anyali closed and reopen two other clans, both of them ones players have been calling for.

We may be closing two noble houses.

Most of the changes will take place after the AIM, which gives ppl some time to write up clan notes and prepare to hand over reins as needed.

At least one staff member currently with each clan will continue with it, so it shouldn't be a horrible shock to players.

We will be closing the Atrium until after the AIM, at which point it will reopen with Morgenes and Vanth running it.

Nusku, Olgaris, Rimius and I will be reopening halflings. Don't start sending halfling apps until we post the call. (This is one of the two reopening clans.)

We will plan on taking on a few new people in a hiring round that we will advertise post AIM.


And I say, whoa.

[Marauder Moe]

I noticed that too, but didn't want to start a panic.  Oh well.  Let the rampant cries of despair and speculation begin.

[Medena]

And I say, whoa.

Yep. That about sums up my feelings.

I can't believe there haven't been a flurry of posts on this yet!

[Sir Diealot]

Which Noble Houses are closing?  Does anyone have any idea?

[flurry]

And I say, whoa.

Yep. That about sums up my feelings.

I can't believe there haven't been a flurry of posts on this yet!

Well now there has.  Or at least a post of flurry. (Ha ha.)

I'm wondering what the other clan might be, that players have been calling for.

edit to add:  When is the AIM anyway, since all this wonderfulness is taking place after it?

[Marauder Moe]

My best guesses: Gith or Blackwing.

Seems like a shame to close two noble clans and replace them with iso clans.  Maybe Sanvean has something special in mind, though, that will let halflings and this other clan be more interactive with the rest of the world.

[Medena]

Wild speculation:

What if two noble houses were closed but ONE was re-opened?


I've had Fale fantasies since starting on Arm!

[SpyGuy]

*weeps over the demise of the Haruch Kemad*

So would this mean that we'd have no city elf tribes in the game at all?  I guess time will tell.

[Yokunama]

*~[grins evily]~*

[moab]

Glad to hear the Atrium is opening back up.  It is so game necessary.
Whenever I play a house servant type, I always hook up with them.  It makes sense.

[LauraMars]

My guess is Winrothal and Borsail.

[Seeker]

Nah... it would make more sense to close BOTH Noble Houses up North to players.  Not really necessary to Tuluki culture.  Maybe even counterproductive.  Let the Chosen be virtual and NPC constructs.


Seeker

[Sanvean]

The dates for the AIM are May 13th-May 20th.

[Vanth]

And no, we're not telling you where it is, so forget your dreams of crashing it.

However, we usually return from it with lots of dastardly collaborative ideas, so you have something to look forward to!

[mansa]

I heard it's in California.

In Hollywood.

In a movie theather back alleyway.

[ale six]

My best guesses: Gith or Blackwing.

Seems like a shame to close two noble clans and replace them with iso clans.  Maybe Sanvean has something special in mind, though, that will let halflings and this other clan be more interactive with the rest of the world.

That's sort of how I feel too.

Sanvean: Are these just ideas that -might- happen, or are they pretty much set in stone? Will player input be asked for on any of it?

[Ktavialt]

To Sanvean/Staff, I'm starting to get a feel as to why certain changes
may be taking place. I got a question, sort of, for that:

Would it be fair to say that a factor of certain clan closings/openings is
the relevancy of whether the clan needs to have PC's within them to
game-wise represent their possible actions as guided by IC events that
make them more necessary now than before?

In other words, what was an iso-clan before may not necessarily be as
much an iso clan in the near future, and is kind of important now, so lets
put players in it?

- Ktavialt

[Tlaloc]

Uh...what?

I'm very confused by that question, heh.

[jmordetsky]

i am joe's amused bewilderment

[Ktavialt]

Uh...what?

I'm very confused by that question, heh.

Alright, nevermind =)

[SpyGuy]

Uh...what?

I'm very confused by that question, heh.

I'm pretty sure Ktavialt was asking in more or less: If an iso-clan like the halfling race is reopened, will it begin to play a more major role in game plots for those PCs?  Will they also become less of an iso-clan and be able to interact with the rest of the playerbase?

I actually think this is an important question.  I wouldn't mind one iso-clan being opened but I don't think they'd bring much to the game world unless they started playing an active role in it somehow.  Then again it's stupid to say anything before a real announcement is made, this is just food for thought if it hasn't been considered.

[path]

I think..maybe.. what he's saying is:

Does the staff open clans to further plot arcs and close others when they have less of a role to play?

But that's just a guess as to what he meant. I don't think the staff does this, but who am I to say.

[Anonymous]

Nah... it would make more sense to close BOTH Noble Houses up North to players.  Not really necessary to Tuluki culture.  Maybe even counterproductive.  Let the Chosen be virtual and NPC constructs.

I agree with this pretty strongly.  Consolidating noble roles to one city or the other would be a very positive move in my mind.

Additionally, GITH GITH GITH GITH.

[Cuusardo]

I've gotten a shit-ton of roleplay from Tuluki nobles.

Yes, I said shit-ton.

[Maybe42or54]

Move more of the Pcs from Noble houses to Bard circles and everything is better.

[jhunter]

I can't wait for halflings to open again. Most fun I've had with a pc, they're so different from -anything- else.

I'd love to give gith a try. I hope they're one of the ones being considered.

[Delirium]

I would love to play a gith.

ALL YOUR BYN ARE BELONG TO ME

[razorback]

I would love to play a gith.

ALL YOUR BYN ARE BELONG TO ME

Ok, that's it, I'm sticking to the city types.   :shock:

Gith seems like it would be an awesome clan to try, or halflings too, for that matter. Still...I vote for opening the tregil clan. *nod*

[cyberpatrol_735]

I would love to play a gith.

ALL YOUR BYN ARE BELONG TO ME

Isn't that a cheat from warcraft 3?

ALL YOUR BASE BELONG TO US

??

Anyway, halflings -- Tight, probably won't play one because I'm more into politics than isolation and eating people.

Closing noble houses: Depends on the house.

Borsail should stay open, definently, with naiona running it? Heck yeah, borsail is awesome, northern houses? Not quite sure.
Southern houses? Keep them ;-)

But at any rate, awesome things are going on at armageddon lately..

[Xygax]

I would love to play a gith.

ALL YOUR BYN ARE BELONG TO ME

Isn't that a cheat from warcraft 3?

ALL YOUR BASE BELONG TO US

In the interests of historical accuracy:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_your_base_are_belong_to_us

[bloodfromstone]

Noooo, not more iso clans. *weeps*

[Desertman]

I would love to see gith re-opened, I have actually had a pc tell me recently..."There are no gith in the desert"...this would change thier minds real quick about the realism of dangers in Zalanthas.

[flurry]

I'm curious what karma level halflings (and gith?) will be set at.  Or if they'd only be special ap.

[mansa]

I suspect Gith will be at 5 karma, the same as lightning and shadow elementalist, and Halflings will be at 6 karma, the same as void elementalist.

[Cuusardo]

I'm curious what karma level halflings (and gith?) will be set at.  Or if they'd only be special ap.

I doubt they'll be given a karma level.  Halflings AFAIK were special app only the last time they were opened.

[jhunter]

I'm curious what karma level halflings (and gith?) will be set at.  Or if they'd only be special ap.

I doubt they'll be given a karma level.  Halflings AFAIK were special app only the last time they were opened.

That was for a test run Cuusardo. I'd think that if they are opening them up on a more permanent basis it would be special app at first and then probably a karma option.
*shrug*

[mattrious]

Their return grows near. Halflings and Gith? Pssh. Feeding day and night their food supply is slowly dwindling. They continue to grow in number and size as the Queen continues to lay her eggs. It's only a matter of time..before the clutch returns.

- Mantis -

They've laid dormant for far too long in their secluded nest within the far reaches of the known world. I think it's time for them to leave another mark on the delicate flower that we know as Zalanthas.

:twisted:

- Matt.

[Larrath]

My bet is 2 karma for Gith (like Rukkian/Vivaduan) and 3 karma for Halflings (like Half-Giants).  Making them a very high-karma Race would mean their population would be pretty damn thin.

[SpyGuy]

My personal bet is any iso-clan will be special app only with a moderately limited playerbase.  But then again I'm thinking only halflings will be reopened and involved in some sort of major plotline (hopefully making them work with desert elf tribes or something).

Then the two noble houses in the North will be closed (makes no sense to remove one from each city, that'd just stifle noble RP more) and House Fale would be reopened.  That way Allanak has four bickering Houses to choose from.

As for gith vs mantis...I'd do with whichever one would realistically have more involvement with the playerbase.  If the gith were active and could have limited interaction with the world other than raiding (in Red Storm, through the Red Fangs, etc.) that'd be alright.  If the mantis had something better to do than just sit in their valley all day (like an all out war on desert elves) then I'd be down with that too.

[EvilRoeSlade]

Damn I hope they decide to close two noble houses.

If one of those houses was Borsail, I would be very sad, but that would be balanced by my sheer delight at the fact that any noble house besides Borsail is also going to be closed.

[mansa]

I hope Kurac closes.

*hates Kurac*

Or Gypsys

*hates Gypsys*

Or Lesbians

*hates Lesbians*

[LoD]

The fatal flaw of the PC gith, mantis and halfling of yesteryear had been a lack of common culture and opportunity for non-combative interaction.

Halflings, gith or mantis meeting up with any other PC race usually resulted in trouble of some kind because the races were so different culturally that there wasn't room enough for peace.  No peace, delicate or otherwise, means that these characters, no matter how well played or conceived, would eventually devolve into PK encounters with the rest of the world.

If each of these civilizations were to develop the potential to interact peacefully with even a portion of the PC playerbase, then I think they could become a staple part of the gameworld again.  Until that time, however, it's just a passing fancy until they meet up with a non-gith, non-halfling, non-mantis.

-LoD

[jmordetsky]

The fatal flaw of the PC gith, mantis and halfling of yesteryear had been a lack of common culture and opportunity for non-combative interaction.

Halflings, gith or mantis meeting up with any other PC race usually resulted in trouble of some kind because the races were so different culturally that there wasn't room enough for peace.  No peace, delicate or otherwise, means that these characters, no matter how well played or conceived, would eventually devolve into PK encounters with the rest of the world.

If each of these civilizations were to develop the potential to interact peacefully with even a portion of the PC playerbase, then I think they could become a staple part of the gameworld again.  Until that time, however, it's just a passing fancy until they meet up with a non-gith, non-halfling, non-mantis.

-LoD

I don't think it would crumble to that right away. Plots might be more interesting with some direct D-Elf vs Gith, AoD vs Gith items. I could see a some creative Imm collaboration making some coolness here. For example setting up new oasis water supply somewhere and and having both Allanak and a large Gith tribe struggle to control it.

Might be what we're all missing. Some open conflict rather then hidden stuff.

[Anonymous]

The fatal flaw of the PC gith, mantis and halfling of yesteryear had been a lack of common culture and opportunity for non-combative interaction.

Halflings, gith or mantis meeting up with any other PC race usually resulted in trouble of some kind because the races were so different culturally that there wasn't room enough for peace.

It doesn't help that these three races have been labeled by Tektolnes an
"Axis of Elementalism" and he has accused them of trading in Weapons of
Magickal Destruction.  He's already started petitioning the United Northlands
for the authority to make sure they don't threaten the culture, and economy,
of Known World.

Seriously, how do you expect them to react?

[Jherlen]

I don't think it would crumble to that right away. Plots might be more interesting with some direct D-Elf vs Gith, AoD vs Gith items. I could see a some creative Imm collaboration making some coolness here. For example setting up new oasis water supply somewhere and and having both Allanak and a large Gith tribe struggle to control it.

Might be what we're all missing. Some open conflict rather then hidden stuff.

By "struggle to control it", you're referring to basically exactly what LoD said things would crumble to - violence. Unless you think there's some possibility of Allanak and Large PC Gith Tribe sitting down and negotiating about said oasis and working out ways to share it. I really don't see that happening. It's far more likely you would just have bands of militia/templars and bands of gith running around said oasis raiding and PKing each other.

I'm with what LoD said. If you gave halflings/gith/mantis cultures the reasons to coexist with the rest of the world WITHOUT resorting to "I want to kill/eat you", I think they could add something interesting to plots and the gameworld. Otherwise, I don't think there is potential for anything besides a bunch of fighting.

[Cale_Knight]

If (when) halfings come in, it'll pretty much kill any desire I ever had to play a northern character, because I'd lay money down that they eventually get bored and start raiding.

Not my cup of spiced tea.

[Ktavialt]

If you gave halflings/gith/mantis cultures the reasons to coexist with the rest of the world WITHOUT resorting to "I want to kill/eat you", I think they could add something interesting to plots and the gameworld. Otherwise, I don't think there is potential for anything besides a bunch of fighting.

While yes, the RP between the races is pretty slim to none, I do like the
added element of danger of having PC gith and PC halflings around. It's
just crazy kool.

- Ktavialt

[Angela Christine]

If (when) halfings come in, it'll pretty much kill any desire I ever had to play a northern character, because I'd lay money down that they eventually get bored and start raiding.

What, you don't think being a canibalistic hippy would be exciting?    I am curious about how they will be integrated, should be interesting.

[Yokunama]

If (when) halfings come in, it'll pretty much kill any desire I ever had to play a northern character, because I'd lay money down that they eventually get bored and start raiding.

What, you don't think being a canibalistic hippy would be exciting?    I am curious about how they will be integrated, should be interesting.

Do halflings smoke spice?

[Intrepid]

There is one clan I'm personally hoping for the return of, but I'm not sure
it's a publically known clan.  We lost it during consolidation, and I was
never convinced that it had to remain entirely iso myself.  Those of you
from way back probably know which clan I'm referring to, especially if
you were in it, and probably can tell exactly why it would be nice to have
them back.

Yes, I know it's cryptic.  But I'd rather not get in trouble for letting the
quirri out of the bag when said clan is not meant to be known by the
general populace.

[Anonymous]

But I'd rather not get in trouble for letting the
quirri out of the bag when said clan is not meant to be known by the
general populace.

You mean like the Haruch-Kamed?

I'm assuming you are talking about the Conclave (or was it Enclave, I can't remember.)  I don't see the problem with wild speculation since that clan was known and talked about in non-IC terms on the old hypernews site.  

If that's what you are getting at it's a really interesting proposition, but I hope they don't go that route.  I'd definitely make a character since I missed out on them last time around, but they struck me as being the epitome of an isolated clan and I'm hoping they aren't that clan.

Black Moon would be really nice too.  I loved playing in that clan.  Two of my favorite PCs were with them and a third worked with them on occasion.

[Intrepid]

I'll have to plead the fifth on this one, CRW.

As for Blackmoon, weren't they actually destroyed?

[jhunter]

If (when) halfings come in, it'll pretty much kill any desire I ever had to play a northern character, because I'd lay money down that they eventually get bored and start raiding.

Not my cup of spiced tea.

If you knew -anything- about halfling society then you wouldn't be making this statement.

[LauraMars]

I'm not in favor of iso-clans.

[jhunter]

Those of us that play them would just be playing in a different iso clan anyway so it really makes little difference.

[Nao]

The fatal flaw of the PC gith, mantis and halfling of yesteryear had been a lack of common culture and opportunity for non-combative interaction.

Halflings, gith or mantis meeting up with any other PC race usually resulted in trouble of some kind because the races were so different culturally that there wasn't room enough for peace.  No peace, delicate or otherwise, means that these characters, no matter how well played or conceived, would eventually devolve into PK encounters with the rest of the world.

If each of these civilizations were to develop the potential to interact peacefully with even a portion of the PC playerbase, then I think they could become a staple part of the gameworld again.  Until that time, however, it's just a passing fancy until they meet up with a non-gith, non-halfling, non-mantis.

-LoD

sounds like interaction with templars to me  

[moab]

I'm not in favor of iso-clans.

This chick just gets cooler and cooler.  First Rasputina, now this.
I'm the vice-president of this club.

[LoD]

sounds like interaction with templars to me  

Yes, in the form of violence.

That's the problem.  Any people who lack enough common culture to interact with at least part of the playerbase (i.e. city, desert tribe (human or elf), etc...) will eventually devolve into violence with other PC's.  Why?  Because there is no alternative.  There has to be some common ground that brings these cultures together so that there can be more to do than fight.

The Blackwing culture defended its home and territory fiercely.  If you went prowling and hunting their lands, chances are you might feel the sting of a few arrows, or perhaps approached and attacked.  But you might also have a tense situation where you meet, exchange words/thoughts and trade.  Through consistent trade, perhaps you begin to develop some level of trust - perhaps not in each other, but in each other's desire for a win-win trading scenario.  There is communication, interaction and goals that can be fashioned outside of violence.

Gith, halfling and mantis are races most of the PC races consider enemies that merit a swift death.  If the races are to work long-term, they need to be developed in a way that allows somebody to interact with them and NOT be killed or eaten.  These races have opened and closed several times in the past.  I've even played in some of them, and what I imagine the scenario has been in the past is:

1. Player A thinks playing a gith would be awesome and special apps.  The app is approved, they create their character with a handful of other trusted RPers.  They read the documentation and begin trying to flesh out the gith culture through their RP.

2. Since they don't have other clans with which to interact, they are pretty much isolated and must depend on one another for conflict, competition, rewards, companionship, love, jealousy and hatred.  During down times, the players explore their wild and dangerous world.

3. At some point in time, Player A yearns to interact with other non-gith players because that's part of the whole reason they app'd in the first place.  How cool would it be to play a PC gith!?  Well, they make their way out into some space that might have a chance for PC's to come wandering through and, lo and behold, they find one.  Player A thinks, "Well, I'm not a twink, I'll try to RP with them a bit because that's what this is all about."

They approach the other character, who may or may not assume that the gith is an animated NPC or perhaps PC and stay to RP, immediately fight (because that's what happens against every other gith NPC they've ever met), or flee.

4. If the non-gith PC escapes, he goes back and tells his friends that he ran into a "strange gith" out in the "territory x".  His friends decide to go have a look for themselves, because what's cooler than killing NPC gith?  Killing PC gith!  Somewhere, a PC gets themselves killed by the gith and someone gets hired to go hunt the "strange" gith.

Great, there's interaction between races.  Violent interaction.  So now what happens?  What happens when the gith players get hunted down and killed because they are bored of RPing only with themselves?  They need an outlet for rnon-violent relationships with "somebody" so they can develop goals, wants and desires and express them in a non-violent way.  Otherwise, each character is just a ticking PK time bomb that is doomed from the beginning to be nothing more than a smart "monster" for other people to kill.

I'm not saying that gith or halflings cannot do well.  I'd LOVE to see them integrated back into the gameworld with the capacity to allow non-violent RP to occur.  Entities that are not ruled or influenced by the Sorcerer-Kings are very interesting, and if you make them able to foge alliances (motivated by mercenary or personal goals) with other races/peoples, then you can have some really exciting opportunities.

That may already be the plan.  I hope it is.

-LoD

[Intrepid]

On the subject of gith, there is at least one place where they might be
tensely accepted into society.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

On the subject of gith, there is at least one place where they might be
tensely accepted into society.

In all honesty, there's at least five, and two if you count well travelled locations, where the gith could perhaps squeak by, if they behaved themselves.

[Intrepid]

There you go then.

Although they're violent raiders and natural predators, they can
conceivably interact with other races on the fringes and frontiers of the
Known World.

It sounds like they're more accessible a race atm than halflings or
mantis.

[Angela Christine]

There used to be a few gith NPCs in Red Storm, but I think they were removed a while back.  I don't know what that means.


Angela Christine

[Marauder Moe]

Just got reminded of something in another thread: the Thryzn (mutants who helped in the liberation of Tuluk) might be another possibility for the other clan being opened up.  I think it'd be better than the Gith because they at least have formal relations with one of the cities, or used to.