Why do only rangers get to quit in wilderness?

[EvilRoeSlade]

I sympathize fully with the plight of warriors who think they're good at hunting.  When such a character is stuck in a situation like this, then I think that repeating the following word to themselves will be of immense help:

PARD*

*Play A Ranger, Dumbass

[HunterKiller]

If you have an RL emergency, wish up.  It's not hard for us to boot you out of the game safely (for your character, ICly), and we're usually receptive to this sort of thing if it's an emergency and you've asked nicely.

Otherwise, if you don't or can't plan your time well: play a ranger PC, or avoid wandering into the desert.

-- X

Good to know.  Thanks.

- HK

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

Different arguments, and why I disagree. Take it for what it's worth.
f you don't like it, play a ranger. Anyone ever get sick of playing rangers? Anyone? No? Then I guess this really is the perfect solution!
If you're a very busy Arm player, like me, some one who can only play an hour or two a night, tops, then congratulations, you'll be playing rangers for your entire Arm career.
Sucks to be you, doesn't it?
You can't quit out in the wild because your character can't survive in the wild. Okay. I quit out in a cave once, and didn't log back in for a RL month. There is absolutely no justifiable IC reason why my character would've survived in what was, essentially, the wilderness for that long. Does that mean if I don't store him, I'm a bad RPer?
People log out and claim they were someplace else IC because it's the only explanation that makes sense. When you haven't logged in for a month, and people asked where you were, you usually say something like "oh, they stationed me at a different outpost" or "oh, my aunt was sick and I had to take care of her for a while." You don't say, "oh, I've been sitting in the sleeping area of the Gaj for the last four years. What, you didn't see me?"
Why shouldn't it be any different for quitting out in the wilds? Why can't you quit out on the North Road, and just pretend you walked to the nearest town, cave, or city-state and slept in the gutter? Assuming that the character has been in the same spot for your entire logged-out time is ludicrous.
Rangers can quit in all wilderness areas, because that's just their niche. Okay. Then should all city-based characters be able to quit anywhere in the city?
There are already quit-safe areas in the wilderness that anybody can use. Anyone can use them, assuming they know about them. Wilderness quit-safe areas are one of those annoying, elitist, esoteric things you'll never learn unless you're willing to chuck five or six characters into the all-devouring wilderness.
The perfect solution, in my mind, would be to basically quadruple the number of quit-safe wilderness areas. Those areas are already highly valued, simply because they give you the mystical ability to blink out of existence and quit out. Pretty much any quit-safe locale in the wilderness will be guarded by some d-elves or some magicker or some raider. These little holes in the sand are being treated as way more valuable than they actually are, and simply adding more of them would do wonders for both playability and realism.
If you don't like it, bring a ranger. Yeah, because as master archers, master trackers, master riders, and one-man sandstorm-busters, they don't have enough employment opportunities already.

[HunterKiller]

I sympathize fully with the plight of warriors who think they're good at hunting.

There are plenty of reasons to go into the wilderness that don't involve hunting.  There are also plenty of reasons for non-rangers to go hunting.

It makes complete sense that a ranger can quit out in the wilderness while nobody else can.  I think the problem most have with this is that there is very little grey area.  I was trying to suggest one that wouldn't take away too much from a ranger's ability.

- HK

[Medena]

If you're a very busy Arm player, like me, some one who can only play an hour or two a night, tops, then congratulations, you'll be playing rangers for your entire Arm career.

How do you figure this? Looking back at the various classes (not IC professions) I have played, I could well have gotten by with playing my pickpockets, my assassin, my warrior and my merchant for an hour or two a day.

[Bebop]

Rangers are not twinks by the way.  They are adapt at living outside and why they may have the potential to become really fighters sometimes they start off so damned week that they have trouble even hunting.  It takes a lot of time and money and balance to play a ranger well and not go broke or end up eaten.

My non-ranger characters since they are usually not adept at going outside, don't go off when I wouldn't have time to play.  Or they don't go outside at all.  There are also quit areas speckled around outside.  And an IMM will boot you like Xygax said, if it's an emergency.

Your character is not a ranger apparently so don't play them like they are wondering into the wilderness without a guide and then get upset when you get in a sticky situation.

[Angela Christine]

If I remember right, this topic has sprung up before (..really..what topic hasn't?) and the conclusion that everyone seemed to agree with most was to either add the wilderness-quit ability to the nomad sub-guild, or add it to the D-elves as a race, and create a human-tribal racial option that has the ability as well.

Not everyone.  I think that is the worst idea ever.  Worst.  Idea.  Ever.

Those nomads that are adept at "camping out" alone in wilderness are the rangers of the tribe.  The merchants, warriors, and shamen of the tribe live in the main camp and rarely make more long trips away from the tribe than city dwellers make trips away from their city.  If the "nomad" subclass got wilderness quit, I bet you'd suddenly get many more mages and other loners with nomadic backgrounds.

I mainly play rangers, but it wouldn't bother me at all to have wilderness quit extended to all classes and races.  If I were going to restrict it anywhere but "ranger only" I'd make it "everybody but burglars, pickpockets and assassins" because they really do have very little reason to leave the city, most of the time, so encouraging them to stay home might be a good idea.  But I think it would be a better idea to open up wildernses quit for everyone.  I used to like the ranger perk, since I usually play rangers, but it is a little silly.  The bad weather navigation problem is more than enough wilderness perk for rangers.  Not to mention that sexy "forage food" skill.



A couple of examples of travellers:

Traders need to travel.  Currently it is a whole lot easier to be a trader as Ranger with a subguild that has some Merchant skills than it is as a Merchant.  Merchants are supposed to travel with caravans, but There Are No Caravans, or at least no non-virtual caravans.  Hiring the Byn or private guards to escort your merchant around sucks all the profit out of the trip.  

Many mages need to travel.  Some, like many rukkians, have a sort of druidish vibe going on and they want to commune with nature.  Or a mage might accidently teleport themselves to some remote location, and not be entirely sure how to get home or to the nearest wilderness quit room -- sure, ICly they are screwed, but they should be able to quit out, and then log back in tommorow still screwed.  Some are forced to try to hide out in the wilderness because the wrong person learned their secret, but even if they find a source of water (or watery fruit) they can't really "live in the wilderness" unless they can find one of the few wilderness quit rooms that is Not frequently occupied.  You can find a lovely secluded cave to live in, but unless it is also a quit room you can't really live there.

Half-giants.  Ok, wandering half-giants aren't all that common.  But they are doubly penalized because they don't even fit into half of the current wilderness quit rooms.  (Kanks have much the same problem).

Creating 4-10 times as many quit rooms would be good too.  Currently people do camp on quit rooms, and act all shocked and surprised when other people come in and out to use them.  I once encountered a virtual tribe (created by using drop descriptions) camped on a sweet quit room, as a way for the PCs of that tribe to try to reserve the room for their own private space.  Hermits also sometimes take over a quit room, especially if it is also an item saving room, and are naturally unhappy when random travellers try to move in.  A cave that is a quit room is 100X as valuable as a cave that is not a quit room to PCs, and that is silly.




The only advice I have for the original poster and others in his situation:  Get a tent.  With a tent you can rest up those stamina points even in bad weather.  Your kank can't though, so if you need to get to town (or other quit point) in under half an hour you may need to ditch the kank, or possibly you walk and carry all the gear, he may recover enough stamina while you are in the tent to walk a few spaces if he is unencumbered.  Move a few spaces, set up your tent and rest, move a few more spaces, set up your tent again and rest, etc.  Even with the disorienting affect of storms, you should be able to make it within half an hour or so with this method.  If you get totally trapped by a blinding sandstorm, so that productive movement is basically impossible, your tent may still save your PCs life.  If you must go linkdead, you will dehydrate much more slowly inside a tent than you would outside exposed to the elements.  Eat and drink as much as you can, go into the tent, rest, drop link, and hope for the best.   A tent is your friend.  Your very expensive, very heavy friend who doesn't like kanks, but still your friend.


Angela Christine

[HunterKiller]

Rangers are not twinks by the way.

I agree, I just read that further up the in the thread.  I'm personally fine with the abilities of every class.  This is about quitting when you need to.

I'm glad the option openly exists to wish up to be booted.  In the olden days we'd avoid wishing up like the plague, even if an obvious bug came up we'd continue playing and log it and send it into the mud account later (which I personally think should still be the case if possible).

My non-ranger characters since they are usually not adept at going outside, don't go off when I wouldn't have time to play.

Well, that's the rub, isn't it.  If you know you won't have time to play long, you won't go far.  I've been trying to train my child to warn me before I log in that he's about to smear poo all over our new wallpaper.  I'm convinced he'll be more courteous, it'll just take a few more times of asking.  Until then, there are times I log in convinced I'm going to have a good 2 hours to play and then have that perception proven wrong at the most inopportune time.  Thankfully the poo thing only happened once, it just sticks out in my mind for some reason.  :-)  There are many reasons to leave suddenly, especially when you're a parent.

Admittedly it might've been smarter for me to choose a ranger class in my situation, I don't disagree with that sentiment.  I'm just sick of the ranger class as I've played it before, often.  I admit I must take responsibility for that decision in that I might have to leave my keyboard and kill off my character to deal with real-life and this I also accept.  I was just trying to come up with ways of alleviating this, if only a little.  I'm not trying to take anything away from the ranger class.

Your character is not a ranger apparently so don't play them like they are wondering into the wilderness without a guide and then get upset when you get in a sticky situation.

Every situation is different.  My personal situation is that I'm usually following someone who knows what they're doing and where they're going.  If we had the option of quitting when with a ranger that would be extra cool for me personally, although I don't know how you'd deal with the person when they woke back up.  Days later would they be in bed with the ranger, magickally appearing after they log back in?  heh ...  Would they be back in the wilderness, same place they logged off?  I don't really like either option so admittedly I don't see a good alternative, except the one I already mentioned - putting a few more quit safes in strategic locations and making them obvious.

Anyway, my take.

- HK

[Delirium]

How about making ALL caves and dens quitsafe?

That might help a little.  Few caves are truly "safe" but they are safer than being out in the open, and thus it makes general sense to be able to camp in one and take your chances.  So, shelter would be as close as the nearest cave - you still need to explore and know the area, and actually get to the cave, but it might help.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I sympathize fully with the plight of warriors who think they're good at hunting.  When such a character is stuck in a situation like this, then I think that repeating the following word to themselves will be of immense help:

PARD*

*Play A Ranger, Dumbass

Ha ha ha.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

How about making ALL caves and dens quitsafe?

That might help a little.  Few caves are truly "safe" but they are safer than being out in the open, and thus it makes general sense to be able to camp in one and take your chances.  So, shelter would be as close as the nearest cave - you still need to explore and know the area, and actually get to the cave, but it might help.

Agreed.

[amoeba]

How about making ALL caves and dens quitsafe?

I'm trying to think of a cave that isn't a quit room and I can't.  I'm not saying I know all the caves, but all that I remember being in are.  Plus a gob number of other spots that are not caves.  I will say, there are considerably more places up north than down south, at least from my experience.

[Aldiel]

It seems really silly to me, point blank, that only rangers can quit in the wilderness for ooc reasons.  That I have to potentially wait six extra hours for these hellish ig storms to clear, for four days for my slow stamina bar to fill up, before I can pause and go through the desert, cause I have to go to school in five hours.

When we're talking about quitting, it's an ooc thing right?  We accept it no matter what in clans, ig, ic, but we can't allow it outside of designated zones?  Seriously what's up with that?

quit
You are not in safe room.

...whatever

Quiting symbolizes continued living virtually.  A city char cannot live in the desert or in the Grey for more than a few days.  You could quit out in the desert and zone back in three months from now, and to say he's been living out there that whole time isn't very IC of a merchant or house guard type character.

[jmordetsky]

Different arguments, and why I disagree. Take it for what it's worth.
f you don't like it, play a ranger. Anyone ever get sick of playing rangers? Anyone? No? Then I guess this really is the perfect solution!
If you're a very busy Arm player, like me, some one who can only play an hour or two a night, tops, then congratulations, you'll be playing rangers for your entire Arm career.
Sucks to be you, doesn't it?
You can't quit out in the wild because your character can't survive in the wild. Okay. I quit out in a cave once, and didn't log back in for a RL month. There is absolutely no justifiable IC reason why my character would've survived in what was, essentially, the wilderness for that long. Does that mean if I don't store him, I'm a bad RPer?
People log out and claim they were someplace else IC because it's the only explanation that makes sense. When you haven't logged in for a month, and people asked where you were, you usually say something like "oh, they stationed me at a different outpost" or "oh, my aunt was sick and I had to take care of her for a while." You don't say, "oh, I've been sitting in the sleeping area of the Gaj for the last four years. What, you didn't see me?"
Why shouldn't it be any different for quitting out in the wilds? Why can't you quit out on the North Road, and just pretend you walked to the nearest town, cave, or city-state and slept in the gutter? Assuming that the character has been in the same spot for your entire logged-out time is ludicrous.
Rangers can quit in all wilderness areas, because that's just their niche. Okay. Then should all city-based characters be able to quit anywhere in the city?
There are already quit-safe areas in the wilderness that anybody can use. Anyone can use them, assuming they know about them. Wilderness quit-safe areas are one of those annoying, elitist, esoteric things you'll never learn unless you're willing to chuck five or six characters into the all-devouring wilderness.
The perfect solution, in my mind, would be to basically quadruple the number of quit-safe wilderness areas. Those areas are already highly valued, simply because they give you the mystical ability to blink out of existence and quit out. Pretty much any quit-safe locale in the wilderness will be guarded by some d-elves or some magicker or some raider. These little holes in the sand are being treated as way more valuable than they actually are, and simply adding more of them would do wonders for both playability and realism.
If you don't like it, bring a ranger. Yeah, because as master archers, master trackers, master riders, and one-man sandstorm-busters, they don't have enough employment opportunities already.

Yup.

[jmordetsky]

Just to clarify, all the "PARD" people think that every logger, miner, silt sifter, salt collector should be a ranger? Because they are playing in the wilds? Or am I missing something?

[jhunter]

Like Tiernan said in Ask the Staff, I'd rather see the ability removed entirely than given to everyone.

[jhunter]

Just to clarify, all the "PARD" people think that every logger, miner, silt sifter, salt collector should be a ranger? Because they are playing in the wilds? Or am I missing something?

I can do -every- single one of those things and be close enough to a quit safe room to quit out at a moment's notice. Honestly, it appears that instead of figuring out how to do so yourselves some of you want it handed to you.

[picklehead]

jmordetsky wrote:
Just to clarify, all the "PARD" people think that every logger, miner, silt sifter, salt collector should be a ranger? Because they are playing in the wilds? Or am I missing something?

jhunter wrote:
I can do -every- single one of those things and be close enough to a quit safe room to quit out at a moment's notice. Honestly, it appears that instead of figuring out how to do so yourselves some of you want it handed to you.

Or you could play that profession and deal with having to pay someone or find a partner who can guide you through the wastes while you chop your trees or mine your obsidian.

[Xygax]

Just to clarify, all the "PARD" people think that every logger, miner, silt sifter, salt collector should be a ranger? Because they are playing in the wilds? Or am I missing something?

I've played non-ranger loggers, non-ranger miners, non-ranger silt-sifters, and non-ranger salt-collectors.  Many of them have lived relatively long lives.  A cautious non-ranger can make brief excursions into the sands with relative confidence, if they plan carefully and pay attention to the conditions around them.

None of that has -anything- to do with being able to quit out in the wilderness, which is by no means a requisite for any of the professions you mentioned.

-- X

[Aldiel]

Seriously, if pay close attention to the weather in the room you're in and the weather in the adjoining rooms, you can easily navigate most storms.

[razorback]

It's simple really, if you're not a Ranger...find someplace to quit in the wilderness...die trying...or don't stray too far from the city/post/camp you live in if you don't have the time to play the entire journey.

[FightClub]

Alright, so here we are, saying that a delf, warrior, can't survive in the wilderness?  ...alright, lets consider this, an elf, who has survived their entire life in this specific zone, cannot outmanuever a ranger southlander in their own territory.  They can survive better than me, never having truely known the land, and because rangers are uber 1337 they get special quit skills, which are entirely ooc.

You all need to get off the meat train of believing quitting is ic, IT IS NOT, quitting is completely ooc, your character persist while you are gone, IT IS NOT, your characters fault you have to go take a dump, or walk the dog, or go to work -- why should he suffer?

It has absolutely nothing to do with adeptness in the environment, it has to do with a person having to quit the game for ooc reasons, and needing transport immediatly.  No this isn't call for preplan your trips, only pick city characters, that's crap, we're placing ooc conditions in ic once more, and these people call themselves roleplayers?  Obviously we cannot make out the difference between ooc and ic, the most basic of things in rp, so I'm just going to let it end here.

There's not point in debating it really.  You all can shoot crap at me all day about survival statistics, all of that crap, a tribal warrior survives for 20 years in game, he navigates sand storms over and over, he shouldn't be killed of dehydration, and starvation, from idling through seven passing storms.  No, he'd wait for a storm to pass, and go get food and water.  But instead, since the warriors player cannot quit, he is forced to do so, hence killing all ic nature of this, and bringing ooc into game.

Just as emotions shouldn't have an effect on how you play your character.  OOC aspects such as work, sickness, walking the dog, taking a dump, getting some food, should not either.  Then why do the majority of you insist it do?  

I propose all or nothing, give the ability to quit in the wilderness to everyone, or take it from everyone.  There is no ic justification for giving a person an ooc command.  You want to make it rp, make them able to camp anywhere in game, making a camp out of nearby materials, building shelter for a passing storm.  That's IC ranger's ability to survive, me hitting quit is OOC, it has no reflection on your ranger whatsoever.

[Maybe42or54]

There's not point in debating it really.  You all can shoot crap at me all day about survival statistics, all of that crap, a tribal warrior survives for 20 years in game, he navigates sand storms over and over, he shouldn't be killed of dehydration, and starvation, from idling through seven passing storms.  No, he'd wait for a storm to pass, and go get food and water.  But instead, since the warriors player cannot quit, he is forced to do so, hence killing all ic nature of this, and bringing ooc into game.

Anyone in their right mind wouldn't want to go into those storms. Instead of going out to hunt and maim, try teaching your Pc a social skill, like Drum_playing. There are relatively few really bad storms in the place most inhabited by D-elves. That is why all my bynners have trained there by killing skinnies.

Just as emotions shouldn't have an effect on how you play your character.  OOC aspects such as work, sickness, walking the dog, taking a dump, getting some food, should not either.  Then why do the majority of you insist it do?  

Well, what can I tell you. I agree with you but read on. Main guilds are treated like professions in my eye. You can do anything you want to, unless you didn't want to start out that way.

I propose all or nothing, give the ability to quit in the wilderness to everyone, or take it from everyone.  There is no ic justification for giving a person an ooc command.  You want to make it rp, make them able to camp anywhere in game, making a camp out of nearby materials, building shelter for a passing storm.  That's IC ranger's ability to survive, me hitting quit is OOC, it has no reflection on your ranger whatsoever.

I propose we add a new subguild. They need to evolve with the rest of the game.

[Maybe42or54]

Subguild_Survivor

Survivors do exactly what the name says, they survive. They can find food when they are desperate, they can get through storms half the time, and they can even climb when they fall into holes. They can do all these things, but not very well, which is why they are a survivor.


That is just a sketch, I can go into more detail if an imm wants to.

I have many ideas for new subguilds.

[Inky]

All those caves/grottos/broken wagons, some of them can't fit a mount. So if you quit inside, you have a high risk of losing your kank. Just something to keep in mind.

I would love to see a way for someone to quit out or in on a mobile command post or their commander for all of those really long RPT's. I believe Rindan posted an idea like this awhile ago.