Spice!

[flaran]

The 'rinth needs a supply of cheap, sand-laced spice that is sold in the alleys - not npcs that buy more of the damned stuff.  You can sell "easily" enough already.  There just needs to be a cheaper source - so that is feasible to maintain a habit on a 'rinther's average income.

I see this laced spice being instantly addictive and powerfully so.

I saw this idea in a thread and I love it--

I would also like to see ALL spice be more addicting.  A person should have a chance of being addicted each time he/she does the spice, IMO, but gradually a higher chance as they consume more.

Is this how it currently is?

[FightClub]

Sounds like a good idea, although I've never played in the rinth.

As far as addiction goes, different people are more prone to it than others.  It's better left to rp in my opinion.

[Pantoufle]

I agree with FightClub.  I'm playing a spice addict, presently, and I would much prefer to have the choice how my character responds to withdrawl symptoms than some robotic code!  The downside to this is that you may find less "addicts" in game, but I'm not so certain that even if some code did exist to enforce addiction you would necessarily find more PC addicts as a result.

[Morgenes]

There is spice addiction code in place.

[Aldiel]

I like this idea.  *gives the thumbs up on the cheap spice*

[Intrepid]

I'd like to see an option to bribe a templar npc at the gate when none of the militia and templar pcs are around.  Then, you can smuggle items in
without being auto-searched by the npcs: poisons, spell components,
spice, black powder and thieving tools all suddenly become a possibility
and the cities become that much more corrupt.

[mansa]

There is spice addiction code in place.

And as a player, I can verify this.  Ooo the mystery!

[jmordetsky]

There is spice addiction code in place.

And as a player, I can verify this.  Ooo the mystery!

I just wish it was more pronouced for different spices. I'd like to see spice have greater effects and side effects.

I like to see basic addiction - (just echos to start..no idea?) after just a few uses. But physical effects that make the risk worthwhile.

Especially to twinks.

Heh. I want to accidently get addicted to spice. Thinking, Like, "if I blow a few of these lines, I'll be able to do x,y,z....hmmm but there's that addiction thing...well...just this one time..."

[SpyGuy]

I'd like to see easier addiction.  It'd be nice to see a few users find themselves blowing a few lines then a couple of hours after the comedown start getting cravings.

Permanent addiction, however, should be a bit farther off.  A middleground of cravings (echos and perhaps slight stat decreases, a minor variant of what I assume real addiction code is) that will fade if the PC resists.  Just annoying enough to make it worth blowing a line to feel better (and therefore risk a heavier addiction) but temporary enough that someone on a bender one night in Storm isn't permanently addicted for the rest of their PCs life.

I don't know how any of this really works though so this may already be in place but just less visible than I'd like to see it.  And I admire folks who've played serious addicts, I look forward to meeting the addiction code one day.

[flaran not logged]

I'd like to see people getting hurt in a fight and saying, "I'll take some spice to make it hurt less..."

[Pantoufle]

There is spice addiction code in place.

The problem with this is it neither takes into consideration a) the fact that your character may have been a spice addict prior to character creation nor b) the amount of spice your character is smoking or snorting while offline.

[grog]

I'd like to see people getting hurt in a fight and saying, "I'll take some spice to make it hurt less..."

I had a character who did exactly that.

[mansa]

There is spice addiction code in place.

The problem with this is it neither takes into consideration a) the fact that your character may have been a spice addict prior to character creation nor b) the amount of spice your character is smoking or snorting while offline.

But Pantoufle, neither does your other skills get taken into consideration, whether you're a weapon designer or if you are always fighting in the Byn.

Are you asking for a check half-way through character application to ask:

Code Select Expand

Has your character done spice:
A) Never
B) A few times
C) Once a week
D) Addicted

I don't think that this should be implemented into the game.  I -know- the addiction code, and I think that the "Zalanthas Addiction to SPICE" should remain ZALANTHAN.  I mean, Spice isn't like any drug that we know on EARTH.

[Morrolan]

Code Select Expand


smoke
You smoke the spice.
Your eyes turn a bit more blue.

draw crysknife
You draw the milky-white crysknife.

shout (lifting ~crysknife over %me head) Long live the fighters of Maud'Dib!
Lifting the milky-white crysknife over your head, you shout, in tribal-accented sirihish:
          "Long live the fighters of Muad'Dib!"


Seriously, though...greater and greater levels of addiction that start much earlier could lead to some strong RP, or to a response Nancy Reagan would be proud of.

[Sholdyn]

I'm sorry... maybe I didn't read this whole thread thoroughly enough, but why again is everyone so concerned with coded addiction? If you want your character to be addicted, just make them addicted. I don't know the addiction code, but I would bet you a large chunk of sid that the symptoms of coded addiction as not nearly as good as the ones you can make yourself.

Edit: Just like pregnancy, you can come up with a system to decide if you get addicted after using spice. Flip a coin every time and if you get three or four heads in a row, you become addicted.

[marko]

The original post in thread isn't about addiction that was just an evolution of the thread.

I still believe there should be a cheap version of spice available in the 'rinth.

[Delirium]

I can verify that there is spice addiction code.

I can verify that there is spice addiction code.

This thread is starting to sound like an AA or NA meeting

[mansa]

I can verify that there is spice addiction code.

This thread is starting to sound like an AA or NA meeting ;)

Well.  The spice addiction code is a secret of the game.  It does some very cool stuff.  We don't want to spoil it for you.

[Cegar]

The spice must flow (in Allanak)!

Mmm... just watched Dune.

[Pantoufle]

I like what Sholdyn just said.

Are you asking for a check half-way through character application to ask:
Code:
Has your character done spice:
A) Never
B) A few times
C) Once a week
D) Addicted

No, I'm asking for the players to decide how addicted they are or not, rather than some stock Diku-like code deciding everything in a very black and white format for you.

But Pantoufle, neither does your other skills get taken into consideration, whether you're a weapon designer or if you are always fighting in the Byn.

That's totally different.  If you make a character who's background says 'he's a master swordsman and has been using a sword since he was 4 years old nonstop', you'd better send in a special app for boosted skills or come up with a different concept.  Making a character like a spice addict (someone who was addicted to and consuming spice long before character generation) should be no different than making a character with some sort of disease: neither need any coded alterations (or at least they shouldn't).  This is where roleplay should take precedence over some robotic, automated code which lacks the creativity of a human mind.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I'm of the opinion that everything needs to be backed up by code, so respectfully, I do disagree. I would like to see much more detailed info on just what spice does what to you, but I think it would be cool if a help-file became available to you upon addiction.

[spawnloser]

I'm with V for Venomzza.  Spice addiction should be backed by code, as it is.  I don't think it should be 'open to roleplay' but the exact affects, within a range, would be acceptable...like, how it affects your character's thoughts.  How it physically acts on the brain and body, though, that should be code.  I just would love for the code to give you a better idea how strong your addiction is...so you can properly react to it.

[Sekrit Kank]

As the player of a frequent spice-user, I'd like to see the spice echos a bit more.. intense.  I can take four hits of something that makes me feel 'flushed and invulnerable'.. and I never get any other message than that.  I can take six hits of something that leaves me 'peaceful, and euphoric' and never get any other echo.  It makes it very hard to gauge how far the affects have gone.

And, the 'coming down' code is a bit boring 'you feel weak'.. 'your eyes hurt'..  Ok..  I want to know more... I need more input, so that I can play it better.  I'd be willing to write up echos and such, I'd love to submit them..  The question is.. Would it be implemented?

[Pantoufle]

I'm of the opinion that everything needs to be backed up by code, so respectfully, I do disagree.

That's a bit extreme, don't you think?  Everything?  Should we code the need for our characters to take a whizz?  How about when they get a headache?  Should we code pregnancy, as a previous player pointed out?  If everything in game must be imprisoned by a cold, inanimate, black and white code, as you suggest, then we should not be allowed to roleplay using any virtual items whatsoever.  Don't emote vNPCs either, please, they're not coded.  Cantrips should be coded rather than roleplayed via emotes.  And, according to the very same school of thought, we basically should not commit any act at all unless it's coded.  What next?  Shall we get rid of emotes altogether?  

If you're in favor of coding spice addiction (or developing the already existing code), hey, that's great and all.  A diversity of opinions is welcome.  But if you HONESTLY think that everystinkingthing needs to be coded (from when our characters need to go potty to tooth decay), well, that's just silly.  It's fascist, it's extremist, it's fundamentalist.  It basically says that you don't want players to have any free will over the environment.  In short, you don't want the game to be an outlet for storytelling but, rather, a Diku infested with NPCs called Fido the Dog.

[Delirium]

He said "backed up by" and not "completely mandated by".

[Pantoufle]

And, the 'coming down' code is a bit boring 'you feel weak'.. 'your eyes hurt'.. Ok.. I want to know more... I need more input, so that I can play it better. I'd be willing to write up echos and such, I'd love to submit them.. The question is.. Would it be implemented?

Why?  You have a general guideline with which to follow (one prompt, such as 'You feel weak' as previously mentioned).  You don't need a mindless code to tell you excessive details, use your own creativity.  That's what this game is all about.

Besides, everyone's body chemistry is different.  How I react to caffeine may be quite the opposite to how you react.  So is the way with spice.  If you implement a code that forces you to react in a very specific manner, you're limiting their ability to roleplay.  Hell, if that's the case, why play a character at all!  Maybe we can implement a code which forces our character to do everything for us so we can just sit and watch.

[Many Faces]

There is an ingame use for spice addiction code.

There is not an ingame use for pissing/pregnancy code.

There's a distinct line, Pantouffle.  You're just choosing not to see it.


If your character benefits long term from an addictive substance, then yeah,, there should be coded problems with that... since there are coded bonuses.

[Pantoufle]

He said "backed up by" and not "completely mandated by".

I know.

I don't think pregnancy, for example, should be backed up by, supported by, sponsored by, or otherwise controlled in any way by the code.  I think these sorts of things should be left up to the player to decide how their character responds.  In this instance (and in the instance of addiction) I'll decide what makes my character sweat versus what makes him/her tremble, or what makes them feel nauseous or even just how nauseous they feel.  The way YOU react to withdrawl symptoms is not exactly the way I might.  But the code won't ever take that into consideration.

Down with coding everything.

Up with roleplay.

[Pantoufle]

If your character benefits long term from an addictive substance, then yeah,, there should be coded problems with that... since there are coded bonuses.

The coded disadvantages already exist.  I'm not talking about coded advantages or disadvantages.  I'm talking about ridiculous prompts which tell me exactly how I feel.

[Anonymous]

Anyone able to figure out where Pantoufle stands on this?  I think he needs to tell us a bit more vehemently, and in aobut seven more posts how he feels.

[Many Faces]

The coded disadvantages already exist. I'm not talking about coded advantages or disadvantages. I'm talking about ridiculous prompts which tell me exactly how I feel.

Granted, that's how you feel.  I'm not arguing with that.  I am of the opinion, however, that there needs to be more information given on how a PC would feel during a spice rush or withdrawl.  You may have plenty of experience with rushes and coming down, yourself, but what about some other players who do not?  (Please do not misconstrue that statement as a suggestion that you do drugs, that is not in any way what I was trying to put across.)

I am not talking about bold and stark statements about what you are or aren't feeling, I'm talking about a bit more information given during the spice experience.  Maybe a total of three or four messages per pinch.  If you do a lot more than that, then yes, you are going to be more taken by the rush and your screen may be a bit spammy.  Personally, I think that is an excellent way to represent the lightheadness and perhaps lack of focus that a heavy high would represent.

As for coded spice addiction, yes, I think that if you have done a spice for flippin years that you should have 'the shakes' when you don't get your fix.

Do you think a shaking junkie in an alley has that much control over what he's feeling?  I do not.  I'm pretty sure that quivering is pretty much involuntary, along with the drooling and whatever else comes along with a heavy, heavy addiction.

[Pantoufle]

I'm sure you accidently forgot to logon, "Guest", when making both a strong rebuttal as well as a sound argument backed up with thought and reasoning.  I say this because I know you wouldn't want to come across as too fearful of making snide remarks under the cheap guise of anonymity.

On a more sincere (and adult) note, to Many Faces.  I see your point.  And while many if not most withdrawl symptoms are involuntary, the symptoms, themselves, will vary per person.  What about a documentation, rather than a hard code, which suggests a varied in depth list of possible withdrawl symptoms?  This way we as players can act out the specifics we feel our characters would be most suspeptible to.  I think a lengthy spice addiction document would be more encouraging than any added code.

[Many Faces]

Some players will begin playing Armageddon without reading the docs.

I did.  I played until perhaps my third character without even knowing of the existance of the GDB, or any doc outside of the helpfiles.

I had a load of experience with spice by the time I found any sort of additional info into what it was all about.  If I had gotten the ocassional extra message about what was going on, I probably would have looked into it a bit more and maybe found a link or a mention about the rest of the info a bit earlier.

That's what I'm talking about.   We should have a large doc about it,  yeah, hell yeah.  I'm not saying we shouldn't.  I'm saying that additional spice addiction code would rock, in addition to that.  It'd help the whole thing get awesome... a long lived kuraci outrider buckling over in the saddle on an extended ride because he forgot to bring his fix or sifter.  A nobleman who's gotten too indulgent vomiting all over his silks and beginning the shakes because he was too unfocused by his lack of fix to contact his aide for a delivery.  There would be some awesome, awesome possibilities.

[Fragmented]

I think what Pantoufle is saying (and I agree with him) is that we need the freedom to diversify what we're experiencing. Okay, so X spice makes your eyes hurt when you come down. As it is now, everyone who adds onto that coded message emotes something about their eyes hurting. Then you can say 'Oh, he's using x spice, because -my- eyes hurt whenever I come down off that too.'

But the real question is, would -everyone's- eyes hurt when they came down off of x spice? Personally, I don't think so, and I'll be the first to admit I'm basing my comparison off of real life drugs I've experienced myself. But if we don't in part base something off of what we know, how can we roleplay it? A brief example being aliens. Every movie shows aliens as vaguely humanoid, and that's because that's what we know, and it's hard for the human mind to concieve of something -completely- original.

So basically, to sum up this rambling post, I also believe that we should have a range of things over a full spectrum, rather then being forced to roleplay a hundred different variations of your eyes hurting when you come down off of X spice.

-Frag

[James de Monet]

Of course, you could just ignore the coded echo for withdrawl and RP your own response...

[spawnloser]

We already get coded messages that tell us how we feel when taking the spice...this could be construed as generic.  I have already submitted an idea for integrated command emotes for the 'smoke' command, though that is somewhat unrelated.  Still, more generic information.  In general, people coming down from a substance have similar responses, just as people going on a substance have similar responses.  We could come up with something a bit more...descriptive that still allows for roleplay.  I simply advocate more messages...describing the drug induced mental roller-coaster the person is on.  A peak followed by slow drift into the crash that happens afterwards, even a message for when the crash is over.  Mapping these ups and downs a bit better would increase people's ability to roleplay these effects.

Also, more support for addiction, including the giving of withdrawl symptoms, I would love, especially if it included degrees of addiction so tha withdrawl could be more serious for some than others, because again, it will let the person know that they're addicted...and that their character really does crave a thing due to the addiction.  Currently, it's hard to tell if your character is truly addicted.

[mansa]

...Currently, it's hard to tell if your character is truly addicted...

From my experience, you definitely know when you're addicted.

[Angela Christine]

Sometimes you miss the echo when good turns to bad.  Instead of more messages, I would like it if the message you get in stat was more specific.  Right now is just says that you are affected by spice, but not which spice or what affect.  I'd like to have the specific effects listed.  Don't just tell me I'm affected by spice, tell me for example that because of spice I'm euphoric, itchy, aggressive and nauseous.  

On a related note, I'd also like symptoms listed for poison, rather than just "You are affected by Poison".


That way you aren't bothered by more frequent echos, but you can still check your current symptoms any time you want.


Angela Christine