Zalanthan Sexism Confessional!

[Galdun]

Welcome, welcome.  Please take your seats...

*A general shuffling of limbs and creaking of chair legs fills the room as the disheveled group memebers settle into their seats...*

Wonderful.  Lets begin.  We're all here because we're unquestionably tainted by our Earth influenced sexism!  Thats right my little misandrists and misogynists!  Its a difficult thing to escape having been raised on our biased little ball of blue and green.  Perhaps it'd be easier to Role Play a complete lack of sexual prejudice if we were all children of Zalanthas, but such is not the case.  Today, however, we convene, brothers and sisters, to confess our RP sins of Zalanthan sexism in hopes that we may laugh and learn from our mistakes and the mistakes of others.  We are a community of gifted minds, creative talents and wonderful writers, but we still have our shortcomings.  Each and every one of us!  We can fix them, my dear friends.  So once again, feel free(in all safety from flaming and criticism) to come clean with your past RPed mistakes in regard to our topic.  I truly believe it will help our collective consciousness rid itself of Earth-Sexism while within the realm of Zalanthas!  Let the grand absolving begin!

I'll start...

1.) A past character of mine used to refer to -all- female whores in a derogatory sense as though they were immoral.  But I've since accepted that the profession of the whore is simply just another working job on Zalanthas.  It can even be a respectable one for women to hold.  Hallelujah!

2.) That same character used to harness the belief that he couldn't be beaten in the sparring circle by a woman, and if he ever was, would become completely defensive and blatantly sexist.  I've since dropped this notion and come to realize that on Zalanthas, women make for equally as fierce and talented warriors as their male counterparts.
Hallelujah!

Those are two more or less generic displays of sexism that I've exhibited.  There are tons more that we can bring into the cleansing light, brothers and sisters!  CONFESS YOUR SINS AND FEEL THE SANDS SCRAPE YOU CLEAN OF YOUR EARTH INFLUENCED PREDJUDICE!

HALLELUJAH!

[jmordetsky]

Once, I called SarahJC a poop face.

[LauraMars]

I am guilty of sleeping with multiple women and then discarding them as if they were no more than rags with which I wipe my...face.

However I don't think this is sexist.  It is just that I had no other choice.  You see, I would have slept with way more men but most of them don't seem too keen on sleeping with a man.

SEXISM IN ACTION.  I was sexisted against.

[bloodfromstone]

I'll throw in and say, while I think I've been pretty good about not being sexist myself, I've contributed to LauraMars' problem. I have played mostly straight characters because it is what comes naturally to me, being a straight man myself and only knowing (mostly) straight women to forge my female character(s) out of. I confess to being part of this epidemic and will try to bang tons of men with my next male character.

[grog]

Recognizing that men and women are inherently different, does not mean that one is being sexist.   On Zalanthas men and women are equal, but they still think and look different.  (in some cases, I know that some women actually think exactly like men, and vice versa because of the person playing them)   Equal never means the same, it just means that their is not a single field that both women and men can be in (with either in charge).  Whores are still whores, men or women.   A lot of men sill won't understand women, and a vice versa.   And both men and women will still use each other for sex, companionship, and whatever else comes to mind.

And just because homosexuality ain't thought badly of, doesn't mean everybody thinks screwing the same sex is a good idea, for themselves.

[Rindan]

There is nothing wrong with using whore for males or females in derogatory manner, in my opinion.  Calling someone a whore implies that they will have sex with anything that has a pulse.  That includes ugly and disgusting people, people with STDs, and people who are socially unacceptable.  That goes double and triple if you throw in a qualifier, like calling someone a 'rinth whore.  Whore, in my opinion, is an inherently derogatory name that implies a little more then that people pay to sleep with them.  I probably would not call a mistress to a noble a "whore", even if she was on a payroll.  At that point she is a mistress, companion, or prostitute.  Those are all slightly more dignified or even prestigious terms.  "Whore" implies no standards and someone who is desperate for money.

[Galdun]

But isn't everyone in Zalanthas desperate for money?  How should a whore be any more derogatory a term than a mercenary; one who is willing to gut his best bud for a 'sid.  I just don't think whore's should be the 'zero standard' filth bags that some people write them off as especially when they themselves are bynners or scavengers.

Hate to derail my own thread, but thats my take.

[jhunter]

I think it depends on the pc. Gender shouldn't play an issue but I can see how some might look down on those that make their coins selling sex just like some might look down on those that make their coins stealing, doing mercenary work or whatever.
People will always find reasons/have their own reasons to look down on someone who is different in some way.

That's okay, it just creates conflict.

[Rindan]

But isn't everyone in Zalanthas desperate for money?  How should a whore be any more derogatory a term than a mercenary; one who is willing to gut his best bud for a 'sid.  I just don't think whore's should be the 'zero standard' filth bags that some people write them off as especially when they themselves are bynners or scavengers.

Well, I think mercenary is a derogatory term too, for some people.  Clearly, it depends upon the crowd how much offense one is going to take.  Calling a Tor Scorpion a mere mercenary probably is going to result in a pissed Tor and possibly a fight.  Calling a Byner a mercenary is going to get him to shrug and say "no shit".  Calling a noble's mistress a whore might land you in a world of hurt.  Calling a 'rinth prostitute a whore is likely to get her going rates for various 'services'.  It all depends upon the context and who you are talking to.  

I think whore is vaguely derogatory to most people.  Most men and women don't offer themselves out for money even though most men and women are perfectly capable of doing so.  The word "whore" implies low standards and a low going rate.  Even in Zalanthas culture where long term monogamy might not be the norm, I don't think fucking anything with a pulse for a few 'sid is really looked upon all that favorably.

[FightClub]

I am often guilty of saying "you swing like a woman"

And "only a woman bleeds like that."

And "Babies are stds."

but that last one really had no relevance, it's just a fact -- so wrap it up kids.

[Kiri]

I confess that I have often assumed that male characters are easily manipulated through their dicks.

[Hymwen]

They aren't?

[Cuusardo]

Both sexes can be manipulated by it.  

[Ghost]

What?!  We don't have any kankfuckers around?  Come on guys, just say it.

[Hymwen]

I think the docs say that men and women are equal. Not men, women and kanks.

[EvilRoeSlade]

1.) A past character of mine used to refer to -all- female whores in a derogatory sense as though they were immoral.  But I've since accepted that the profession of the whore is simply just another working job on Zalanthas.  It can even be a respectable one for women to hold.  Hallelujah!

Ironically, the sexism taking place here is not that whores are being referred to in a derogatory sense (which is okay), it is that you are assuming that only women are whores.

[Kiri]

Ironically, the sexism taking place here is not that whores are being referred to in a derogatory sense (which is okay), it is that you are assuming that only women are whores.

That's right. Everybody knows those kanks are whores! They ask for it! They don't even get the common going rate for it!

Ironically, though, I can't recall a female ever being called a kankfucker....

[Medena]

1.) A past character of mine used to refer to -all- female whores in a derogatory sense as though they were immoral.  But I've since accepted that the profession of the whore is simply just another working job on Zalanthas.  It can even be a respectable one for women to hold.  Hallelujah!

Ironically, the sexism taking place here is not that whores are being referred to in a derogatory sense (which is okay), it is that you are assuming that only women are whores.

If Galdun were assuming that only women are whores, he or she would not have specified "all female whores". The sexism here is that only female whores were referred to derogatorially and that, by necessary inference, male whores were deemed to be okay.

[EvilRoeSlade]

Well, that's sort of unclear to me.

1.) A past character of mine used to refer to -all- female whores in a derogatory sense as though they were immoral.  But I've since accepted that the profession of the whore is simply just another working job on Zalanthas.  It can even be a respectable one for women to hold.  Hallelujah!

[Maybe42or54]

I tried to be a man whore once, but no man wanted me.

[spawnloser]

I tried to be a pimp once, but noone wanted to work for me.

[jhunter]

I tried to be a half-giant whore, but the only people that would hire me were nobles and my johns didn't usually survive it.

[LauraMars]

This is starting to sound like a song.

I tried to be a whore-man, but no man wanted me
I tried to be a pimp-man but there were no customers to see
I tried to be a gay-man but there were no holes to fill...

Come on, someone write the next line!

[Delirium]

I tried to be a straight-man but there's no girls who will!

[grog]

I tried to be a straight-man but there's no girls who will!

Agree to be my comic relief.

[LauraMars]

Oh no, my fingers itch to make another poetry thread!

[Cenghiz]

I once became a manwhore for women.. Eh, it worked pretty well, at least for me.

[Aldiel]

This has always been a fine line for me.  I mean, even species where the males and females are of equal build have femininity and masculinity.  I mean, how the heck is a female going to attract a mate if she's not different than him.  She's got to have those nice hips and know how to sway 'em!  And of course I'm going to bark like a dog!

(Aldiel is being somewhat sarcastic here.)

[Ghost]

I tried to be a kank once, but no kankfucker hitched a ride.



And still no kankfucker confessions.  Come on people.  Laura!  Ves!  Not even you two?

Here is one from odd urges.  I am sure someone did this, though we did not get the confession yet:

get ticket cloak

offer ticket

hitch kank

em looks over ~kank for a long, long moment, his eyes sparkling with lust.

s
w
w
w

em nods to the gateguards as he passes, a slight skip to his step.

w

em Turning slowly, his hand clutched gingerly around the reins of ~kank, @ drops to his knees and gives thanks to the HighLord.

think Thank you, HighLord, for the love you have given me.

em stands and trods in to the wastes.

w

em guides ~kank up on top of a dune, and brushes some dust off of the shell.

em Licking his chapped lips with a pink, sticky tongue, @ drives a stake in to the top of the dune and lashes the reins to it

em steps to the rear of ~kank.

em undoes his trousers, and begins to ride ~kank

change ldesc is here, making wild love to a saffron kank

You hear a male voice shout from the east, in sirihish;
"Excuse me! Kankfucker! Do you need assistance?"

l e
[Far]
A few cityguards looking westwards with disbelief

shout Woooohoooo! Yeah! WOAH! Yeah! Wooooooo!

[Maybe42or54]

I once had sex last through a whole emote.

The badass mother fucker thrusts a few times, then rolls aside.

say (looking at ~woman) Damn, you are good. Normally I don't last that long.

[Yokunama]

I tried to be a man whore once, but no man wanted me.

Those are hard to pull off.

[FightClub]

I tried to be a man whore once, but no man wanted me.

Those are hard to pull off.

Obviously you haven't played a Borsail slaver.

[Vesperas]

I tried to be a man whore once, but no man wanted me.

Those are hard to pull off.

Obviously you haven't played a Borsail slaver.

Borsail slavers are sexy.

But not as sexy as brainz.

[Kiri]

I tried to be a man whore once, but no man wanted me.

Those are hard to pull off.

Obviously you haven't played a Borsail slaver.

Borsail slavers are sexy.

But not as sexy as brainz.

Borsail slavers with brainz are teh sexi3st.

[Ghost]

I tried to be a man whore once, but no man wanted me.

Those are hard to pull off.

Obviously you haven't played a Borsail slaver.

Borsail slavers are sexy.

But not as sexy as brainz.

Borsail slavers with brainz are teh sexi3st.

I am sexi3st.

[Packersfan]

What?!  We don't have any kankfuckers around?  Come on guys, just say it.

Fine fine, I admit it.

I think there would be far less ooc sexism if 8/10 woman ig were not your typical pretty little princess. I love when female characters act like a Zalanthan instead of what their prom dream was. In fact, some of the best mercenary types and Templars I have seen were female and perfectly played. There is no room for sexism in arm unless you have a damn good (I'm talking stupendous) reason, because that is the reality of Zalanthas.

[jcarter]

From the 'What I Learned in the T'zai Byn Files'-

Gith men may substitute a woman for a kank.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Again it comes up, and again I just disagree with it so fucking much. I know the world is what it is and that women are not little dainty creatures and all that crap, but for real, if that's what people want to play, why does it matter?

Yes, so they are prom queens and kings and kids and all that, and super-models and stuff, but my characters will prolly always like chicks like that, just because that's what I dig. This is a damned fantasy world, and as much as I like reality in the visciousness and death and world of Armageddon, I love with all my heart to see sexy ass princesses with swords and armor cutting up gith.

It's prevelant in any fantasy setting. Women can be cherished and still be deadly as fuck and confident. Look at Cattie=Brie from the Drizzt books. Wulfgar loves her and cherishs here and she looks good and all this, yet she is a top-notch fighter. Seriously, screw all this crap about ugly women and men and stuff. Let these folks be beautiful, and let them shape the world.

In all seriousness, would you put a thick-ass, muscular ass chick with a bloody axe on your wallpaper, or a slim, decent to gorgeous female with that same bloody axe on your wallpaper?

Let's be serious. That's why fantasy artists paint what they paint.

[Anonymous]

I like big muscles on a female... gives me something to grab on too.  Screw skinny women... I need that meat.

[Kiri]

I think there would be far less ooc sexism if 8/10 woman ig were not your typical pretty little princess. I love when female characters act like a Zalanthan instead of what their prom dream was. In fact, some of the best mercenary types and Templars I have seen were female and perfectly played. There is no room for sexism in arm unless you have a damn good (I'm talking stupendous) reason, because that is the reality of Zalanthas.

As long as sex can be used as a tool, a weapon, a form of protection, or a way to the top, there will be women who will try to wield their looks like a sword. The trick, of course, is pulling it off, but if someone wants that to be their route rather than that of gritty badass gith killing female, why not? It's not flouting lack of sexism, it's using sex and sexuality the same way you'd use weapons skills. This works for men, too, after all.

To me, what the "equality of the sexes" on Zalanthas means is that the opportunities/rewards/punishments are the same whether you're male or female. It doesn't mean that women have to act like men, too. IMHO, that's the biggest misconception that people have... they think "equal" means "the same." They think that "women equal to men" means "women who act/look like men."  

Sexism is treating someone as they are not, simply because of their sex. IE: Treating a sword wielding, fire breathing, flame drinking warrior like a fragile doll just because she's  a woman. Or on the other hand, assuming a man is dumb, brutish, and only driven by hormones because he's a man who  kicks gith butt and fucks  his kank.  If  a woman acts like a bit of fluff who needs protecting, and the fellows stand in front of her and take the brunt, they're not being sexist, they're doing exactly what she wants them to do.

Besides.... it's amazing what a pretty girl can get away with. Especially if you perfect that wide-eyed, innocent smile.

Everything could be a ploy.

[Delirium]

Besides.... it's amazing what a pretty girl can get away with. Especially if you perfect that wide-eyed, innocent smile.

Everything could be a ploy.

I think the main problem is just that it's such an overused tactic.  I can't even begin to name off the numbers of pretty women that have used their looks, sex, and wiles to seduce and use men (whether or not they were successful).  I can however count on the fingers of one hand the number of women I have seen forge their way along through intellect and sheer grit.  I am not at all counting combat abilities in either statements, though I do find the gith-killing, sword-slinging perfect beauty as ridiculous in-game as I do when I read about it or see it in any other fantasy medium.

[Kiri]

I think the main problem is just that it's such an overused tactic.  I can't even begin to name off the numbers of pretty women that have used their looks, sex, and wiles to seduce and use men (whether or not they were successful).  I can however count on the fingers of one hand the number of women I have seen forge their way along through intellect and sheer grit.  I am not at all counting combat abilities in either statements, though I do find the gith-killing, sword-slinging perfect beauty as ridiculous in-game as I do when I read about it or see it in any other fantasy medium.

Sheer grit is a lot harder to come by than sex appeal. And I agree with you about mixing perfect beauty with sword slinging. But in defense, there's only so many ways you can re-invent the wheel.... and for beginning characters, picking a more familiar/easily done/safer route while getting their feet... wet? sandy? only allows them to concentrate more on the mechanics and whatnot. I'm betting that most of them do something entirely different and way more intriguing their next reincarnation.

Oh, and editted to add, in response to "It's just such an overused tactic..." Hey, if it still WORKS....

[Delirium]

That's the thing though, I've rarely seen it truly pulled off successfully.

Pearl is the only PC I can think of that ever really made it as an attractive concubine-type PC and she still got by far more because of her intelligence and cunning rather than her sex appeal.


But I have seen TONS upon TONS who have tried.

[Roach]

I think the main problem is just that it's such an overused tactic.  I can't even begin to name off the numbers of pretty women that have used their looks, sex, and wiles to seduce and use men (whether or not they were successful).  I can however count on the fingers of one hand the number of women I have seen forge their way along through intellect and sheer grit.  I am not at all counting combat abilities in either statements, though I do find the gith-killing, sword-slinging perfect beauty as ridiculous in-game as I do when I read about it or see it in any other fantasy medium.

Sheer grit is a lot harder to come by than sex appeal. And I agree with you about mixing perfect beauty with sword slinging. But in defense, there's only so many ways you can re-invent the wheel.... and for beginning characters, picking a more familiar/easily done/safer route while getting their feet... wet? sandy? only allows them to concentrate more on the mechanics and whatnot. I'm betting that most of them do something entirely different and way more intriguing their next reincarnation.

Oh, and editted to add, in response to "It's just such an overused tactic..." Hey, if it still WORKS....

I agree with Delirium. And just because it works doesn't mean it's the best way to go. What you're saying sounds like a justification for something it's easier not to recognize as counterproductive.

[Tamarin]

I think grit is sexy...

*sniff*

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I love grit. I love the ability to live and die in a breath. I love the hardass chicks in the world. I love the realism in many aspects of the world.

Adversely, I love my model-PC making fellow players too, and I am trying to get the point across that they should not be faulted or considered bad players for being what they want to be. When we complain about it, it makes it seem like we're communists, and we're not. We're an open-minded group of people in many aspects who simply don't want our world sullied.

I'm saying pretty people don't sully our world.

[Nao]

Yes, so they are prom queens and kings and kids and all that, and super-models and stuff, but my characters will prolly always like chicks like that, just because that's what I dig. This is a damned fantasy world, and as much as I like reality in the visciousness and death and world of Armageddon, I love with all my heart to see sexy ass princesses with swords and armor cutting up gith.

It's prevelant in any fantasy setting. Women can be cherished and still be deadly as fuck and confident. Look at Cattie=Brie from the Drizzt books. Wulfgar loves her and cherishs here and she looks good and all this, yet she is a top-notch fighter. Seriously, screw all this crap about ugly women and men and stuff. Let these folks be beautiful, and let them shape the world.

In all seriousness, would you put a thick-ass, muscular ass chick with a bloody axe on your wallpaper, or a slim, decent to gorgeous female with that same bloody axe on your wallpaper?

Beauty wouldn't even bother me all that much - even of the perfectly-beatiful warrior might irritate me a little, but all those female characters that play the perfect aide and crafter types and all seem to be pregnant at the same time even if they hardly ever seem to have those kids (or talk about them once they're there). The kind that would be too worried to break a nail to ever even touch an axe.

Sure, they would exist in zalanthas - but they still piss me off, especially if they are the only types I ever see. There's so many of them (talking about Tuluk now, guess it's not that bad in Allanak but I haven't been there for a long time) that they make the normal, average gritty human that would fit in perfectly seem out of place.

It's frustrating if 95% of the female chars around you fit that stereotype.. Why stick to a game with a setting like zalanthas if all you play is that sort of character that somehow managed to not have to adapt to their environment at all?
The whole ratio of gritty (be it beautiful or not) and dainty/fragile is terribly out of balance and made me dislike Tuluk a lot - don't think I'll make another character up there when my current one dies..

[LauraMars]

Hey, if they want to play it that way, let them.  My first character was a f-me aide.

(of course, that got old, but I get really bored, easily)

SOME PEOPLE like it.  So that's great that they do.  Have fun, aides.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Well, the ratio of Bards and Half-Elves is out of porportion as well. I guess I can understand your sentiments in the ratio aspect. Here's what I think, though. I think the ratio of Players-Who-Don't-Like-Dainty is far less than the ratio of Players-Who-Like-Dainty. Because of this, the problem will never disappear.

What I suppose Staff could start doing is offering comments about such things when they approve characters, and maybe encourage players to make less dainty females. The players who don't like dainty could ignore or develop dislike for the PCs who they IG think are pansy-ass sticks. Staff could certianly assist by maybe offering private comment to those who they think are unrealistically cute considering their line of work or recent events or ordeals, etc.

What I am saying, primarily, is that talking about it here on the board over and over again won't get anything at all about it done. I'm also saying that because this is a game where those who wish to can escape reality and be who they want to be, all while maintaining a visciously RP dedicated enviroment, people will continue to make the 'princess' character, and rather than letting it jar us from our roleplaying experience, we should accept it and move on.

Personally, I like a certian amount of beauty, and what I[/i] would hate to see is all these pretty girls disappear and the game over run with butchish and ugly females. That would jar me.[/i]

[Kiri]

I agree with Delirium. And just because it works doesn't mean it's the best way to go. What you're saying sounds like a justification for something it's easier not to recognize as counterproductive.

I wasn't trying to justify so much as say, this is a tough game to get used to, in many aspects. Trying to learn the world, the mechanics, the dangers... AND try to RP something unfamiiliar? Not everyone can do it. And we shouldn't be such snobs that we expect everyone to try. Hell, we shouldn't be such snobs that we expect them not to do something they want to try, just because we think it's "overdone."

Beauty wouldn't even bother me all that much - even of the perfectly-beatiful warrior might irritate me a little, but all those female characters that play the perfect aide and crafter types and all seem to be pregnant at the same time even if they hardly ever seem to have those kids (or talk about them once they're there). The kind that would be too worried to break a nail to ever even touch an axe.

Not every pretty face is JUST a pretty face. Sometimes that look, that smile, and that walk are just one more weapon in the armory. One step closer to that fatal knife in the ribs while you're still smiling over sniffing the perfume. When she can wriggle out of your attempts to subdue her slicker than kank shit, toss a knife in your eye from thirty paces, then kick your balls into your ears when you're down... should you discount her just because of what she looks like? On the one hand, your post says no, you wouldn't. But on the other hand... it seems to say that your first reaction will always be "Oh, another one of THOSE" without really seeing if there's any depth to the character before you discount it. If that's not the case, I apologize to you. But I think that's the first reaction of a LOT of players.

The thing is... you don't have to interact with any of them, really. And  you could say to yurself, "Why don't I see if I can encourage them to change their ways in an IC way? Like calling that merchant a pansy until she's encouraged to learn how to use a tomahawk and unmans me? Or enticing that Aide to do something incredibly dangerous and possibly stupid that gets her fired and ending up out grebbing salt?"

Those would be more productive (and possibly provide new players with exciting memories and desire to keep playing) than griping about it on the boards.

[ale six]

This has been argued so many times before that it just starts to get annoying.

I say let people play the way they want to play. If you want to label PCs based on their appearances, it's up to you. Your judgements might be right or wrong, that's the risk you take. I've seen a few PCs that have pulled it off with a fair degree of success (more than just Pearl). Admittedly I've also seen a lot more that think they're hot stuff and aren't - it all depends on how skilled they are at the strategy.

So I've come to terms with the fact that some players are going to judge PCs based on first impressions, descriptions, whatever. I guess we can't really change that. It might be okay to discount some PCs right off the bat, but with others, your knee-jerk judgement is just going to let your guard down to them, and the crafty players will know how to capitalize on it. Either way, I don't see what good debating this on the GDB ever does.

[Intrepid]

I'd also like to add that everyone here appears to be utterly obsessed with
this topic.  It comes up every two to four weeks in some way.  The imms
have already given their opinions on this.  All that's left is a broken record
playing over...and over...and over...

So there are attractive characters in the world.  Who cares?

[Medena]

I have dared to play two characters who were unabashedly feminine. I have also played "the burly gap-toothed woman" and some androgynous ones, and a male character who was very feminine.  Oh wait, that makes three characters who were unabashedly feminine then, it's just that only two were female AND feminine.

I've no doubt that my first character of any note was categorized in some people's minds as one of those "dainty, f-me aides".  Was she dainty? No, she was in the middle range for height and weight. Did she act dainty? Not particularly. She wasn't above acting dainty if it would suit her purposes to do so, but it didn't usually.  Was she good at combat? No, but she was a pickpocket by guild and an acrobat by profession before being employed by a noble house.  Did she have an f-me description? No. There was a huge scar running across her face, no mention of breasts or curves, no pouty lips. But she was undoubtedly quite feminine.

I doubt that my male character was ever categorized as a dainty, f-me aide. Maybe that's because he was in the upper-mid range for height and weight. Did he act dainty? Often! He constantly touched his hair and buffed at his perfect fingernails.  He had a flawless complexion, long perfectly ringletted hair, and he even wore makeup. He wasn't above using sexual attraction as a tool, flirting shamelessly with women who gave him gifts, even though he didn't even like women. This guy was a lot more than a pretty face though. But so was my female aide.

I agree with people who have remarked on how this subject gets beaten to death. But I think it's important for newer players to not feel they have to make their characters's descs bland and/or ugly or their female's personalities aggressive and combative else face being ostracized. I don't want newer players whose current characters are feminine to think they have made some horrible RP faux pas that will relegate them forever to the "I don't want to RP with this person again".

I just don't understand why people are so judgmental on this point and so quick to dismiss characters who   -appear- to be of a certain type, but who may or may not be.

[Nao]

Not every pretty face is JUST a pretty face. Sometimes that look, that smile, and that walk are just one more weapon in the armory. One step closer to that fatal knife in the ribs while you're still smiling over sniffing the perfume. When she can wriggle out of your attempts to subdue her slicker than kank shit, toss a knife in your eye from thirty paces, then kick your balls into your ears when you're down... should you discount her just because of what she looks like?

That would be awesome. I thought about a char like that before.

On the one hand, your post says no, you wouldn't. But on the other hand... it seems to say that your first reaction will always be "Oh, another one of THOSE" without really seeing if there's any depth to the character before you discount it. If that's not the case, I apologize to you. But I think that's the first reaction of a LOT of players.

I can't help it. Even if every single one of those characters really had some UBER-secret that they're just trying to hide behind the facade - there's jsut no room for my character (which isn't even the grittiest of grit) to interact with them outside of the clan. There just seems to be -no- room for interaction at all besides smalltalk, it's hard enough with the 'fancier' characters within the clan and it seems near impossible with everyone else. That leaves me with either no one to play with even when there's plenty of characters online or having to adapt to that level of smiles and laughs and pregnancy and drama. Or do ooc stuff otu of desperation and try and engage that one 'normal' character - jsut that that one happens to be a breed or whatever that my character wouldn't usually talk to - got to bend cour concept a little to have some fun. frustrating.

The thing is... you don't have to interact with any of them, really. And  you could say to yurself, "Why don't I see if I can encourage them to change their ways in an IC way? Like calling that merchant a pansy until she's encouraged to learn how to use a tomahawk and unmans me? Or enticing that Aide to do something incredibly dangerous and possibly stupid that gets her fired and ending up out grebbing salt?"

I don't have to, but there seems to be no one else every time I log on, like I said. And calling someone a pansy would just result in a lot of
talk (clasping their hand in front of their mouth) Oh what a horrible thing to say!
:evil:

Yea, griping won't do much but I have to blow off some steam that didn't even exist the last time I saw that topic come up.   you don't have to read it, alright?[/quote]

[Nao]

Not every pretty face is JUST a pretty face. Sometimes that look, that smile, and that walk are just one more weapon in the armory. One step closer to that fatal knife in the ribs while you're still smiling over sniffing the perfume. When she can wriggle out of your attempts to subdue her slicker than kank shit, toss a knife in your eye from thirty paces, then kick your balls into your ears when you're down... should you discount her just because of what she looks like?

That would be awesome. I thought about a char like that before.

On the one hand, your post says no, you wouldn't. But on the other hand... it seems to say that your first reaction will always be "Oh, another one of THOSE" without really seeing if there's any depth to the character before you discount it. If that's not the case, I apologize to you. But I think that's the first reaction of a LOT of players.

I can't help it. Even if every single one of those characters really had some UBER-secret that they're just trying to hide behind the facade - there's jsut no room for my character (which isn't even the grittiest of grit) to interact with them outside of the clan. There just seems to be -no- room for interaction at all besides smalltalk, it's hard enough with the 'fancier' characters within the clan and it seems near impossible with everyone else. That leaves me with either no one to play with even when there's plenty of characters online or having to adapt to that level of smiles and laughs and pregnancy and drama. Or do ooc stuff otu of desperation and try and engage that one 'normal' character - jsut that that one happens to be a breed or whatever that my character wouldn't usually talk to - got to bend cour concept a little to have some fun. frustrating.

The thing is... you don't have to interact with any of them, really. And  you could say to yurself, "Why don't I see if I can encourage them to change their ways in an IC way? Like calling that merchant a pansy until she's encouraged to learn how to use a tomahawk and unmans me? Or enticing that Aide to do something incredibly dangerous and possibly stupid that gets her fired and ending up out grebbing salt?"

I don't have to, but there seems to be no one else every time I log on, like I said. And calling someone a pansy would just result in a lot of
talk (clasping their hand in front of their mouth) Oh what a horrible thing to say!
:evil:

Yea, griping won't do much but I have to blow off some steam that didn't even exist the last time I saw that topic come up.   you don't have to read it, alright?

[FightClub]

I am often guilty of saying "you swing like a woman"

And "only a woman bleeds like that."

And "Babies are stds."

but that last one really had no relevance, it's just a fact -- so wrap it up kids.

I once, hit on a woman, with a moustache and big muscles, and laughed the entire time.

I'm sorry -- but if icly it was the shizzle to mudfuck a bahamet, people wouldn't do it, good rp or not, cause they still want to rock princess barbies sox, as do I...

[EvilRoeSlade]

Or do ooc stuff otu of desperation and try and engage that one 'normal' character - jsut that that one happens to be a breed or whatever that my character wouldn't usually talk to - got to bend cour concept a little to have some fun. frustrating.

Hey hey hey.  Just because it's a half-elf doesn't mean you can't use the say command in its presence.  Make fun of it.  Patronize it.  Bully it.  Whatever.  Just don't ignore it.  That isn't fun for anyone.

But on topic, I sympathize with you Nao.  What you are saying is the reason I won't play in Tuluk anymore.

[Nao]

Hey hey hey.  Just because it's a half-elf doesn't mean you can't use the say command in its presence.  Make fun of it.  Patronize it.  Bully it.  Whatever.  Just don't ignore it.  That isn't fun for anyone.

I meant that I'm very tempted to get WAY more involved with pc's like than I usually would if I didn't bend what's ic to do and what not a little for ooc reasons...

[Angela Christine]

I'm reminded of a family reunion I attended 18 years ago in northern Alberta where some old guy (a great uncle, I think) from a small town was talking about some other guy that lives in his town and said: "He's a nigger, but he's a pretty good guy."  The old guy really thought he was being nice and probably didn't even realize that what he was saying could be considered extremely offensive.  He thought this other person was a nigger, but he was a good nigger so that was ok.  :roll:  It wasn't particularily mean spirited, there aren't many black people in the far north so there isn't any real racially motivated -hate- towards them, they are more oddities than anything.  There could be trouble if a black man tried to date someone's white relative.


I'd like to see more of this unconcious kind of prejudice against half-elves, and others not of your character's race.  You can work with them.  You can sit and enjoy a drink with 'em, almost like they are real people, but you never forget what they are.  You'll drop 'em in an instant if something better comes along.


Angela Christine

[FightClub]

I'm reminded of a family reunion I attended 18 years ago in northern Alberta where some old guy (a great uncle, I think) from a small town was talking about some other guy that lives in his town and said: "He's a nigger, but he's a pretty good guy."  The old guy really thought he was being nice and probably didn't even realize that what he was saying could be considered extremely offensive.  He thought this other person was a nigger, but he was a good nigger so that was ok.  :roll:  It wasn't particularily mean spirited, there aren't many black people in the far north so there isn't any real racially motivated -hate- towards them, they are more oddities than anything.  There could be trouble if a black man tried to date someone's white relative.


I'd like to see more of this unconcious kind of prejudice against half-elves, and others not of your character's race.  You can work with them.  You can sit and enjoy a drink with 'em, almost like they are real people, but you never forget what they are.  You'll drop 'em in an instant if something better comes along.


Angela Christine

Isn't that how things should be?