Newbs, who are they and what are they thinking?!?!

[Thunder Lord]

Why are they new? And why do many newbies stay newbies for a very long time? Why do they constantly come up with stupid ideas and put them on the GDB? Why do they make silly polls and know-it-all responces for things they know nothing about? Why don't they read the documentation?
Why do newbies act the way they do?

First lets go over a few things. Armageddon, is a game without images. It is a TEXT BASED game. It is a PERMA DEATH game. It is a RP ENFORCED game.

Lets list that again.
TEXT BASED
PERMA DEATH
RP ENFORCED

As far as I can tell out of the thousands of games out there 99.99% DO NOT have everything on that list.

Generally the average gamer. 99% of the population thinks one of three things:
Text Based is stupid because why would anyone play text based when there is -VIDEO- games and pritty MMOs?
Perma Death is stupid because you loose ALL that hard work if you make a silly mistake.
RP enforced is stupid because.... RP... is stupid.

Now, your average every day newb on armageddon KNOWS arm is text based, they KNOW arm has perma death, and they KNOW arm is RP enforced AND THEY ARE TRYING TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY ANYWAY!What heros! What risk takers! THey are trying to learn a hard ass game that no body likes except for a small handful.

That makes them unique, and wonderful, and something to nuture and take care of. Not some one to trick into killing and screwing over. Not some one to harass and get impatient with. We need to teach them with a positive point of view not one built off of punishment! ANd that is why many newbs stay newbs for a very long time! Teach them RP, don't force them to twink out by by being so cruel and harsh just because they are newbs.

The only thing a newb needs to learn the game is good examples of RP, and lots of understanding.

Why do they constantly come up with stupid ideas and put them on the GDB?
A newbie does not know everything about the game, so any idea they come up with might be a little, silly at times. However, this is a good thing!
1: they like the game enough to make suggestions.
2: they are thinking out of the box! And just such a thing is needed!
3: When you look at newbie suggestions you are looking at the type of thing that is attractive to NEW PLAYERS. They don't have the tainted point of view like us vets. RESPECT the newbies ideas!

They are genuine and come with good intention. Please do not shoot it down harshly in a rude flame. Just explain why it won't work, compliment him/her on the good idea. And get on with your life.

Why do they make silly polls and know-it-all responces for things they know nothing about?
Newbies, are doing the right thing by acting that way. They are mimicking the vets, trying to fit in, trying to get into the arm community and enjoy the game. And that mimicking is what makes newbs into great RPers. As i said, they learn by example. WHen you go flaming newbs, for silly posts, for know it all responces, you are discouraging them! Instead incourage them to post more! DOn't tell them to stop being stupid, take care of them instead!

WHy don't newbies read the documentation?
Pure and simple: They do. They read it all and they read it a lot. However it is A LOT of information. Something you need to go through three or four times to grasp. And then, once you get ingame it is hard to put together.

Don't expect newbs to learn complex cultures and customs and a complex emote and syntax system in a very short time in a text based game that is permadeath with RP enforcement. Don't think they havent read any documentation because they didn't understand something. It is -hard- for newbies and don't ever forget that. Remember without the documentation, they probably wouldent even be making a character. It is probably the documentation that got them to play the game in the first place. Be TOLERANT of thier lack of knowledge and teach them instead of scold them.

So why do newbies act the way they do? It is the players fault mostly. The players who constantly sabotage the newbies efforts.  Before you go out attacking newbs and making thier life harder because they are newbies, realise they are unique people willing to play an unorthodox game. Realise that  many of them quit BECAUSE players are too mean and unhelpful. Too many newbies I see quit arm because it is too complicated or too stressful or too harsh. It -isnt- to harsh if you understand the syntax, the documentation, and the culture. They just don't understand yet.

As for the Immortals: Most of you do a -wonderful- job at being tolerant of them. You grace them with documentation that not only gets them interested enough to play the game but also helps them learn and understand it as well. However some of you, I won't use names, could sometimes be discouraging.

But the #2 way immortals could help newbs (After the documentation) is to compliment them when they use good RP. Compliment them as much as possible. You compliment them, they will repeat what they were doing good. Punnishing them and scolding them with emails of what they shouldent do just makes them feel guilty and stressed out as if all thier efforts were not enough. They will avoid doing the problem again but then find another way to piss you guys off. THey need to be told they are doing something right! THey NEED it BADLY. And the PLAYERS can't tell them that due to the RULES of the game. Only -you- can help them in that department.

Anyway, if we want more players in arm. If we want less twinkage and more dynamic and fun RP, then we NEED to be tolerant of newbies. We need to HELP them not HURT them. They are the future of Armageddon, and the reason Armageddon exists.

ALways remember how it was like when you were a newbie.

May my post not get torn apart in flames with quotes of misinterpreted statements and arguments. Be nice, behave. And Thank you very much for listening. I hope this really helps my poor little newbies who quit Armageddon for the above reasons.

[LucidApex]

I support  the above completely. As a matter of fact, a good friend of mine did quit armageddon because the environment is so harsh. Now the game world, it is supposed to be harsh, that is understandable, but that doesn't necessarily have to translate over into the GDB. It really isn't fair to the people who come in with no real experience to speak of to be shot down. We have all been new in something, maybe a new school, a new job, or even just meeting someone new (i.e. a significant other's parents, a new group of friends, a relative). Just remember how you may have felt in this situation. Just remember that new people are the basis for any group's success and continuation. Don't walk on eggshells, but don't toss the habenero powder in the eyes either. Just...be civil.

my two cents.


-Lucid Apex

[jhunter]

Shut the fuck up....stupid newb.














J/K

Good post and you are right. I will admit that I'm guilty of biting the heads off of newbies from time to time. I try not to though and I'm getting better save for a lapse here and there.

[UnderSeven]

Dude, that's just how it is in the game.  Most people when they see an obvious newb will try to help them, but you can't go too far.  For instance, established players will sometimes ACT like newbs to get a little extra assistance in game.  So it has it's drawbacks.

I know it sucks to be a newb, it took me about three characters and about four months to actually get into this game and that was many years back.  Plus my newb was sunjarown3d.

I don't think in general this is a problem so much, but it's nice to have helpers around and I think arm is tons more accessable these days then it ever was when I started.. Except back then you could get away with lower quality rp.

[Larrath]

Note: though this post features quotes from UnderSeven, this post is not directed to anyone in particular.  I only picked UnderSeven's quotes because they were in this thread and got my post flowing and all.

For instance, established players will sometimes ACT like newbs to get a little extra assistance in game.

If I saw an experienced player pretending to be a new player in order to gain IC benefits, get away with something or deflect suspicion that he's a magicker, I would consider emailing a complaint against them.

I don't think in general this is a problem so much, but it's nice to have helpers around and I think arm is tons more accessable these days then it ever was when I started.. Except back then you could get away with lower quality rp.

This is a problem.  Most newbies usually don't get to talk to me, but I've talked to a couple of newbies that were seriously intimidated by the OOC atmosphere.

I think that people just look at newbies incorrectly, at least to a degree.  When you see a bumbling newbie trying to RP in a tavern and make friends or get a job as an aide, you should realize that with the proper help, this same newbie could make one hell of a political character in six months and one hell of a noble in a year or two.
When you see some twink trying to get a party to hunt scrabs (or whatever), maybe he'll turn into some menacing PKiller.  Or maybe he'll turn into one of those well-played raiders that we all want so much, or join the Byn/some other clan and make a Sergeant and take care of the clan.

I know that the game is harsh and realistic and that nobody likes breaking their character to help a new player, but this is also a game, and our game only gets better as we get more experienced players in it.

One time not too long ago, I was speaking to a terrified, brand new player.  They were intimidated by the emote code and didn't know many basic commands, and it took me about half an hour until I could get them to go to a tavern, sit down and try to interact.  There were three or four PCs in there - two nobles sitting away and some hunter or whatever at the bar, and maybe some other people passing through.  Nobody paid the newbie any attention whatsoever - they spoke to the hunter and found no reply.  They looked at people and emoted and everyone was silent.  They started walking towards the nobles wanting to sit with them (as they were in the middle of animated banter) and were still completely ignored for some twenty minutes.
I don't know if that newbie is still playing here, and they looked pretty promising.

Ignoring newbies, taking advantage of newbies' inexperience to offer unrealistic things in order to kill them or just PKing them because it's easy is not good for the MUD.

In conclusion, if you ignore or take advantage of newbies, don't ever be  upset that there aren't enough people in your clan, your tribe, your city, the T'zai Byn, any Merchant House as a merchant/family, any noble aides for you to choose from or whatever else.  When you simply take advantage of a newbie without trying to teach them or at least make sure they have some fun or understand what is happening, you are taking one player from Arm and making him go somewhere else.

How many people did you chase away?
*ep machete (but points it away from UnderSeven)*

[TLo]

to make a distinction of what I was getting at:
Don't target newbies ICly because they are easy prey.
HELP newbies OOCly by being nice.
help newbies ICly by giving a good example of RP.

If a newbie is robbing you or trying to kill you, don't spare them to be nice to a newb. If thier PC deserves to die, let them die. Keep with the RP but don't make an active effort because they are newbies.

Only a newbie you could trick into going into the rinth.
Only a newbie you could trick to going into a locked appartment with a stranger.
Just stop targeting newbies because they are newbies.
It drives me nuts when I see some one who notices a PC is a newb and begins to try and get them killed so they can collect the 800 coins that the newb hasnt deposited yet.

[Ktavialt]

Only a newbie you could trick to going into a locked appartment with a stranger.

Uhm not only a newbie *sighs* twice. Two of my last six characters went
that way.

Sigh,
Ktavialt

[MBlack]

Some newbies don't get the "rp enforced" part. Some newbies will apply some other kind of game's "rp enforced" to Arm. Some newbies don't read the docs. Some do, and don't take them seriously. Some do, take them seriously, but don't care or try to play their own way because they think their way is better. Newbies aren't all created equal. Some suck. Some are great. Some aren't great but eager to learn.

[IAmJacksOpinion]

Here-here! Within my first five minutes IG I was sold a flint knife for 120 coins and a sandcloth loincloth for 60. I was also probably the only newb hired to kill a red robe within 10 minutes.

But the #2 way immortals could help newbs (After the documentation) is to compliment them when they use good RP. Compliment them as much as possible. You compliment them, they will repeat what they were doing good.

Couldn't agree more. Back when I was but an iddy-biddy newb, in my first week or two, an imm emailed me saying s/he liked the use of my thought command because it let him/her know what motivated my character. To this day I'm a thought whore. I don't know how much is normal, but sometimes I'll put out thought commands for obvious stuff that doesn't need to be written.

ie: n, n, think Darn, missed my turn. s, w

That being said, I think the main reason people bait newbs is because their characters seem retarded, drunk, or high. Everyone uses this to justify the killing/ripping off of a character. It seems logical, but I think there's some real world morality issues you need to think of here.

If newbs are indead retarded/drunk/high:
a) Would you sell a shitty 1991 Cheverlet Corsica with 200,000 miles on it, a bad knock in the engine, and nearly 40% body rust to a retarded person for $2,000 just because they'd go with it? Jerry Seinfield might, but you surely wouldn't (I hope)

b) If there was a drunken prostitute falling all over you at the bar, would you invite her back to your place, then murder her? (For some odd reason, if my buddy Mike ends up playing Armageddon, he ends up playing a newb prostitute lady saying "Sucky Sucky five dolla'. Good thing he doesn't play often, but he's been killed several times for this)

If you were a rinthi, you might've answered 'yes', but other than that you realistically should've probably said 'no.'  

It's a sad, sad state of affairs. At the most, people should be trying to get newbs to do funny things, such as trying to get the retarded kid in gym class to say "Would you like a cookie?" and not killing them for being easy targets.

I know it's kind un-Armageddonish and all, but I think imms should be harsh on 'newb-baiters'. Most of this behavior seems out of place anyhow. Like when your normally law-abiding obsidian miner invites a newb out, waits for him to foolishly chip away all his stamina, then kills him. One moment he's an indiginous, hard working forager, next he's a cold blooded killer for a few sids and a corpse with poor equipment. I think when the imms see this, they should negative note it, or email the player telling them to stop being a dick. I realise what a sensative situation it is, but newb baiters are the skum ot the earth. Imagine how much larger our player base would be if some newbs weren't prayed upon to the point they'd given up.

[Olgaris]

So everybody knows, when we see people purposesly killing newbies the following happens:

1) Note goes on their account & player is e-mailed.
2) If behavior persists, usually they get one more warning before being banned.
3) If they come back after being banned for a probation period, and they continue their behavior, they are banned permanently.

I've also noticed that the only people who seem to target newbies are themselves newbies. Often it'll be someone who just understands the coded combat aspect of the game enough to use it for evil instead of good. Beside the odd exception that likely exists, but I have yet to see, anybody who has been playing Armageddon for a year or more knows better than to screw with newbies. It's those players who come from a H&S background and have been playing 3 weeks to 6 months, who either learn better real quick, or get banned. Unfortunately sometimes they turn away a few new players in the process of us trying to get them to smarten up.  :?

[Packersfan]

I personally feel people have no right to single out newbies for bad rp. As long as Templars spar commoners, Nobles lose auctions to commoners from the opposite city state( and accept it) and people don't understand that woman are equal to men ig I don't want to hear discussions such as this.

edited to add: By "this" I mean people trashing on newbies.

[TLo]

As long as Templars spar commoners, Nobles lose auctions to commoners from the opposite city state( and accept it) and people don't understand that woman are equal to men ig I don't want to hear discussions such as this.

edited to add: By "this" I mean people trashing on newbies.

That is like complaining about how you broke a finger nail durring a bomb scare. What are little problems against a much larger one? Do you have any idea how many of my newbs eventually quit arm? Or rather, let me rephrase, only one of my newbs still plays arm. The rest, quit. All of my friends who tried to play arm, quit. Why? Do I need to sound redundant?

What does nobles loosing auctions from commoners, and the male to female equality mean if we scare off half the newbs! Wanna know why Armageddon isn't rated #1? Wanna know why we don't have more people playing arm? Because every time some one new tries, they quit. Either by people being too mean OOCly, or people targeting them ICly. No sane person is going to bother feeling -more- stressed trying to learn a -game-.

I side with most IMMs and the newbs, as far as I can tell from the experienced players and psudoexperienced players. Many, are just way too selfish to help a newb. I can remember leader PCs avoiding hiring newbs because they were newbs. Or templars ripping newbs a new one because they didin't figure out or remeber the syntax to lower thier hood in two seconds. We all have been mean to a newb at some point, I have been mean once or twice in the past. But it needs to stop.

[Marauder Moe]

I was a new player once.  I didn't quit.   :roll:

I have been mean to new players.  It was in-character for me to do so.  That's how the documents say the game works.  That's how I expected to be treated when I joined.  In fact, people were far nicer than I expected for the most part (though I have yet to play a non-human).

I don't think that veteran players being OOCly mean or elitist is the problem either.  I don't think there is a problem.  To put it bluntly, this game isn't for everyone.  It's not for people who don't like to read or write properly.  It's not for people who can't figure some things out on their own.  It's not for people who refuse to read documentation.  It's not for the superfans of tree-hugging Tolkien elves or Harry Potter wizardry.  It's not for people who can't get over losing 300 coins or an 10+ day character.  It's not for people who aren't willing spend a real life year earning their first point of karma.

The reason we're not ranked #1 anywhere isn't because we drive people away, it's because this isn't an easy mud.

[Hot_Dancer]

You sure about the Harry Potter wizardry part?

Hot_Dancer

[Bestatte]

Arm is also a niche market within a niche market. The vast majority of mudders are -not- interested in RPIs. For those who are, there are three which have a history of stabiity and success: Arm, Harshlands, and Shadows of Isildur. Arm, being based in part on Dune and on the Dark Sun D&D campaign, isn't likely to attract all that many people, by virtue of its theme and its genre.

It will never be #1, because it will never be a massively-multiplayer game. Fortunetely, that's a good thing. Because if it ever became an MMORPG, it would cease to be the game this small niche of people have found for themselves, and they would have only 2 options left, one of which is a Tolkein game and not even remotely similar to the Arm theme.

[Aldiel]

Nice post Thunder Lord.  It's about time someone made it.  I agree with you, and I think so do all the other helpers.

[Packersfan]

Tlo: I am confused, are you saying I said something wrong? I thought I made it clear that I hate it when people jump down a newb's throat. If I didn't, then that is my two cents in a nutshell.

[Angela Christine]

Nobles lose auctions to commoners from the opposite city state( and accept it) .

Eh?  I don't get this one.  It isn't a matter of winning or losing.  You see something you'd like to have.  You are willing to pay up to 1000 sid for it. Any more than that and it just isn't a good deal, especially if you could have a similar item custom made for less than that (though you wouldn't get it instantly that way).  Let the stupid barbarian pay through the nose, he is the one losing, not you.  Bidding away your entire stipend on a trinket isn't winning, the only one who wins then is the greedy merchant.


Anyway, back to newbies.  Newbie is a huge and diverse category.  The only thing newbies have in common is that they have recently started playing here.  It isn't like there is an entrance exam.  Some of them are going to be jerks, griefers and twinks.  That doesn't mean they all are.


Angela Christine

[Jherlen]

I personally feel people have no right to single out newbies for bad rp. As long as Templars spar commoners, Nobles lose auctions to commoners from the opposite city state( and accept it)...

I'm not sure I see either of these as bad...

:arrow: A noble sparring a commoner is bad. It leaves them open to assassination and puts the commoner on equal footing with the noble. A templar sparring a commoner isn't as bad, because they both know if the templar ever feels like it, he can call on his Sorc-King of choice's holy powers and turn the commoner into a pillar of ash. Even if a commoner has better swordplay there's no question of who is still on top.

:arrow: AC already made the point that just because you don't like who is bidding against you, or they have lower station than you do, it doesn't mean you need to throw all your money away so you beat them. Even if you are a noble.

But I'm going to derail this thread too. So back to new players.

I think the best thing we as experienced players can do is to get newbies involved. Show them where the bar is, show them where the bazaar is, how to find water, who to talk to about a job, how to hunt without dying. Seemingly trivial things like those can go a long way towards keeping new players around. Some may "get it" faster than others, and the fact is that Armageddon isn't for everyone and we're never going to be the #1 mud in existance. Our niche is too narrow for that. We already are one of the premier RPI muds and should continue to strive to be so, and expand our playerbase and the RPI niche in the process.

[Anonymous]

The reason we're not ranked #1 anywhere isn't because we drive people away, it's because this isn't an easy mud.

It will never be #1, because it will never be a massively-multiplayer game.

We certainly try and would like to be #1, check out the following links: Wanna be #1? Keep people from quiting.

http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=17670&highlight=vote
http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=17446&highlight=vote
http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=16766&highlight=vote
http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15372&highlight=vote
http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=17237&highlight=vote
http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=12188&highlight=vote
http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=10953&highlight=vote
http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9792&highlight=vote
http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=11502&highlight=vote
http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9425&highlight=vote
http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9654&highlight=vote
http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6488&highlight=vote
http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9316&highlight=vote
http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8194&highlight=vote
http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7688&highlight=vote
http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7201&highlight=vote
http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6304&highlight=vote
http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6051&highlight=vote
http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5630&highlight=vote
http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4563&highlight=vote
http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2672&highlight=vote
http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3395&highlight=vote
http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2193&highlight=vote

[Larrath]

Arm isn't for everyone.  Okay.
A lot of mudders won't be interested in Arm, won't read the documents, and won't be able to have fun here.  Right-o.
Many newbies would just end up leaving or act twinky.  Yep.

Are those facts an excuse to mistreat a new player?  For heaven's sake!  Yes, I realize that most people who lure newbies to PK are semi-newbie twinks themselves.  But they're not the only people doing it, and mistreating a new player extends to more than just killing them.

When you're sitting in a tavern and talking to someone and you see a new player struggling with the game and trying to interact with you, is it SO difficult to actually respond to them instead of ignoring and waiting for them to go away?  Yes, some of the things a new player does need to be ignored - sometimes for the newbie's sake and sometimes for realism's sake.  But when a new player is walking to your character's table and you won't even glance at them?
Don't give me that bullshit that Arm is hard and not for everyone.  Most of the people who don't fit in Arm already get filtered out when they see they have to apply for a character and wait 24 hours.  I don't believe any single talented roleplayer would stay in Arm for one week if everyone around only abused him for newbie coins or ignored him.

I, for one, would have probably left Armageddon if my first 'real' character hadn't met with Vanir of the T'zai Byn because everyone else either ignored my character or treated my character like shit.  Was my character a half-elf?  You bet.  Did I know why people treated my character like that?  Not a chance.  In spite of Vanir, I still kamikazed that character in the end, and then came my Borsail aide.

Bottom line, if not for Vanir, Kishime Fale and Kavinny Borsail, I doubt I'd have stuck around.  It's not that Vanir, Kishime and Kavinny did such incredible things - but they gave me interaction and didn't ignore my character.

Even if I'm not the best player around, I think that I fit in pretty well in Arm, so don't go telling me that an Arm-worthy player would stick around even if everyone treated him like crap and ignored him.

When you see a new player, help out.  Look at them, talk to them, shove them around, make them buy you a drink because they pissed you off, make fun of them, talk to them about some strange rumor, do something.  Don't be an elitist prick.

[Adhira]

When I was a newbie to Armageddon I did the following:

- I logged in to Allanak and bought a new outfit.
- I went to a tavern and sat at the bar
- I hesitantly nodded to people sitting there, or said hello, or somesuch.

The result was that my pc was ignored. Most likely IC for the other characters she was trying to talk to. So, I went to a different bar, sat down, and was ignored. Several logins later, several more Hellos, lots more being ignored I decided I had enough. I stopped logging in.

One day, totally bored, I decided that if I couldn't RP on this mud because I couldn't get anyone to interact with me, then maybe I could log in and explore and kill things till I died. To that end I logged in, bought a sword, and merrily started making my way to the gates to go be a ranger, Yar!

Suddenly, as I'm walking someone started following me, spoke to me. Next thing I know my pc is in a conversation. I didn't go out the gates that day. In fact, that pc ended up living for another 9 months before I stored her.  

If someone hadn't taken pity on a newbie and gone out of their way to speak to me and involve me I'm pretty certain I would have died 5 minutes after leaving the gate and never returned to Armageddon again.

Remember the newbie you, by all means, stay true to your character, but if you can find a way to throw a newbie a few crumbs you might just be getting someone addicted to Armageddon. That has to be good for us all.

[Tuannon]

Adhira hacked my account!

Err seriously though.. SERIOUSLY folks.. almost the same thing happended for me. I have always played cautious, cards-close-to-the-chest types in my time on Arm, and I had similar problems with interaction. In fact I still do.

At least after having a 60 day first 'effort' I know how to provoke a conversation or whatever when required for my second 'effot'. I think in another couple of characters time I will be slick and so on with the engaging folks in coherent and directed RP.

[Packersfan]

[

:arrow: A noble sparring a commoner is bad. It leaves them open to assassination and puts the commoner on equal footing with the noble. A templar sparring a commoner isn't as bad, because they both know if the templar ever feels like it, he can call on his Sorc-King of choice's holy powers and turn the commoner into a pillar of ash. Even if a commoner has better swordplay there's no question of who is still on top.
.

A Commoner sparring a Templar is completely innapropriate. Consult the docs for further information.

[Tuannon]

Well.. a commoner sparring a templar consists of said commoner being worked over by the templar's men (or women) and then perhaps disarmed by the same men (or women) and lastly possibly run through or decapitated.. coup de grace style.. by the templar. And only IF that templar is particularly bellicose.

That is about the only 'sparring' I could think of a templar doing with a commoner.

(( edit for apostrophe error and some gender blurring ))