Kurac and Spice

[Pantoufle]

What are your thoughts regarding House Kurac openly smoking their own spice in exorbitant amounts?  This seems to be the case currently, as is evidenced by various NPCs and PCs throughout the game.  

Does it make sense to dive into your own supply of income?  Arguably, there are quite a few real world drug dealers who don't even touch drugs, themselves, because they're trying to make a profit -- although there are also plenty who do, so..

In my opinion we can only draw one of two conclusions from the current situation.

1) House Kurac, possessing a monopoly on the spice market, is exceedingly rich enough to toke away at their stock.  They own so much they can afford the profligate waste.

2) In-game realism has been stretched.

I don't know where I stand in this argument, but noticing all the House Kurac NPCs and PCs consuming spice it made me wonder.  That, and I just finished reading a book about a drug dealer who wouldn't even dream of touching the narcotics which he fed (for a profit) to others.  So before you jump down my throat and accost me for daring to question the current setup, please consider that I'm not saying I have an opinion one way or the other.  I just want to know what the rest of you think is realistic or not (and why) before establishing my own.

Cheers.

[Marauder Moe]

Do Kadians not wear their own silks?  Do Oashis not drink their own wine?  Do Borsails not whip their own slaves?  I think that rules out conclusion 2.

I'd say conclusion 1, but I don't think it's a waste.  It's a standard of living.  Wealth is no good if you don't buy things to enjoy with it.

[Pantoufle]

Do Kadians not wear their own silks? Do Oashis not drink their own wine? Do Borsails not whip their own slaves? I think that rules out conclusion 2.

I'm not so certain.  Somehow a Kadian possessing a few outfits of Kadius-make seems different to me than a Kuraci consuming spice again and again, if only because smoking spice is a constant thing whereas owning a handful (or more) of silks is extracting a very small finite amount of stock.  Though you may have a point about Oash and their wine, so, it's hard for me to say.  Kurac and their spice habits still seem questionable to me and I'm trying to weed out all the reasons why.

As for profligate waste, merchants cannot exist without it!  Just look at Coca-Cola or any other Corporate/Mafia giant in the real world today.  Capitalism cannot exist without an abundant waste of resources (its very livelihood depends on it), nor can a monopoly for that matter.

[Marauder Moe]

Do Kadians not wear their own silks? Do Oashis not drink their own wine? Do Borsails not whip their own slaves? I think that rules out conclusion 2.

I'm not so certain.  Somehow a Kadian possessing a few outfits of Kadius-make seems different to me than a Kuraci consuming spice again and again, if only because smoking spice is a constant thing whereas owning a handful (or more) of silks is extracting a very small finite amount of stock.

Nonsense.  Kadians must constantly buy new outfits to keep up with (or set) the latest styles.  I would be very suspicious of a Kadius merchant who wears the same outfit for years on end.

As for profligate waste, merchants cannot exist without it!  Just look at Coca-Cola or any other Corporate/Mafia giant in the real world today.  Capitalism cannot exist without an abundant waste of resources (its very livelihood depends on it), nor can a monopoly for that matter.

I'm not sure what you mean.  Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you mean by "waste".  Is it a waste to buy something you enjoy but is neither a neccesity nor something that helps your business?

[LauraMars]

It's advertising.  It's a Kurac commercial.  A bunch of h0t Kuraci Agents/Merchants get together with their elaborate glass pipes wearing their gritty but glamorous crimson sandcloth, talking and laughing at the bar, drinking spiced ale and having a grand old time would make ME want to smoke.

Or at least, my character.

[Tlaloc]

I'd say if the Kuraci smoking the spice bought said spice fair and square, House Kurac probably doesn't care one lick. Otherwise, it might just be a perk of working with House Kurac, and could be part of his or her 'pay' - which might make for more loyal mercenaries.

"Wanna 'nother hit? Guess ya gotta work fer it, buddy..."

In any case, I'd say the only problem would come up if House Kurac wasn't getting paid somehow for the spice (not nessecarially through 'sid alone). Nothing is free on Zalanthas, after all.

Of course, that's just my opinions, and the Kuraci Staff might have different opinions.

[Marauder Moe]

Yes, I suppose thats a crucial point that could cause confusion if one didn't know. Merchant family members, and possibly nobles to an extent, still pay for their family's product.  Certainly at some discount in most cases, but it's still not unlimited or free.

[Rindan]

I had a character that worked for Kurac who was also a spice head.  He was paid in spice head and pretty much smoked spice non-stop.  I think I managed to keep him high for years or end.  Now, this character worked as an independent for Kurac bringing in information, moving spice, and doing all other manner of underhanded things for good old House Kurac.  

If Kurac had paid me in 'sid and then charged me normal house prices for spice, what incentive would a spice head like me have to keep working for them?  I might as well get the information that I got and sold it to everyone and their dog to gather the most money.  

Instead though, I would get paid in both money and dramatically marked down spice to the point where I was probably getting it at close to cost.  No one except for Kurac could offer such a sweet deal.  A competing organization would have had to of paid many hundreds of 'sid more to meet what Kurac was offering me.  For Kurac, they were giving me a moderate amount of 'sid and a pile of spice sold at cost.  They were paying comparatively less for my services then what anyone else would have had to of paid.  Further, my character was terrified to being cut off from his spice supply.  He knew that if Kurac ever considered him a traitor he would need to go through back alleyway channels get his spice, and the market up would be significantly more then he could ever hope to afford.

Personally, I think that people dramatically underestimate the power that Kurac has due to the lack of coded addiction.  After food and water, Kurac controls the most addictive substance on Zalanthas.  Having your employees hooked on this shit is NOT a bad thing.  Not only can spice lead to performance boosts in your employees, but you also make them very dependent upon you.  

Paying market prices for enough spice to always stay high is damn near impossible for most people.  If you want to always be high, you need to pay less then market prices.  In order to do that, you need to be in good with Kurac.  Traitors to Kurac are generally not considered "in good with Kurac".

Personally, I think that Kurac employees should all but have spice shoved down their throat.  All Kuraci should be addicted to spice and feel terror at the idea of being cut off.

[WarriorPoet]

Having played a non-Kuraci spice dealer in the past, I'll say that burning a fatty is just as effective as screaming 'SPICE FOR SALE' if you're in an area where spice is uncommon. People are all over it. My limited experience in Kurac didn't involve the sale of spice, but I'd say it's much the same for them.

The advertising is worth many times the measly cost of a knot, if you do it right.

-WP

[mansa]

I played a Kadian that was addicted to spice.  I had about 10 different 'outfits' of silk and fine wares amassed, and a couple bricks of spice in my closet.  I'd like to believe my character was rich.  When he died he had only 3000 coins, but he spent well over 250,000 coins over his 9 month lifespan.

[Xygax]

Personally, I think that people dramatically underestimate the power that Kurac has due to the lack of coded addiction.

You weren't trying hard enough.

-- X

[Rindan]

You weren't trying hard enough.

I had a character blowing through a knot every couple of RL hours.  He easily spent at least two or three IC years smoked up and never allowed himself to get sober for any longer then it took roll another joint or refill his pipe.  If that isn't enough to get addicted, I don't know what is.  If my character was suffering under some sort of addicted code,  I wish the code had kindly informed me.  I don't see much of a point to addiction if the affects are so subtle that it can't be noticed.  If the affects are not so subtle (like my strength was cut in half), then I would think it should be made obvious to my character that he feels significantly weaker then normal, instead of relying on indirect inference through how my skills are working.

[mansa]

I've reached the addiction code.

[LauraMars]

I had a character blowing through a knot every couple of RL hours.  He easily spent at least two or three IC years smoked up and never allowed himself to get sober for any longer then it took roll another joint or refill his pipe.

If you were never sober, how do you know if you were addicted?

[Cuusardo]

I drink some of the wines/liquors/beers that I sell.  Why?  Because knowing the product inside and out gives me a better edge to sell it with.  Because I get a nice discount.  Because I enjoy it.

I would assume it is the same for Kurac and spice.

[Pantoufle]

I guess you're all right.  Come to think of it I'm sure the South American drug cartels, who sell for profit, are snorting up their own cocaine like mad.  In fact I know they are.  So, yeah.  Exorbitant consumption of spice by the very people who make a profit off selling it makes perfect sense now that I think about it.  Smoke 'em if you got 'em!

[Jakahri]

I'm inclined to agree with the second possible conclusion Pantoufle offered. I find it hard to believe that spice is so readily available that Kurac can ingest massive amounts of it and still turn a profit.

If I'm not mistaken, there are only two places in the known world that produce spice naturally. It should be a bit rarer, imo.

However, as long as Kurac sells the spice to his employees so that it continues to turn a profit, I really see nothing wrong with it.

[Pantoufle]

I'm inclined to agree with the second possible conclusion Pantoufle offered. I find it hard to believe that spice is so readily available that Kurac can ingest massive amounts of it and still turn a profit.

Well, that's actually what made me make the post in the first place.  Armageddon MUD's theme is that of a ruined world.  Everyone universally knows of and hates sorcerers because they are said to be responsible for the destruction of Zalanthas.  This means, ideally, it would be ingrained in the child of every race that their world was once lush and full of life (thus implying that currently it is a mere withered husk of its former self).  If we are to believe that Zalanthas is a withering wasteland with poor natural resources then it stands to reason that any and all commodities (spice among them) would be rare and hungrily sought after.  If this is to be the case, then it may be that Kuracis are currently delving far too deep into their own profits.  Either that, or there's a whole hell of a lot of spice underneath the sands of the Red Desert!

The workers who are seen smoking are still contributing by paying, you say?  I'm sure they receive healthy discounts.  Would it be in Kurac's best interest for their biggest buyer to be their own employees?  Now, if you go work for some corporate giant like the Gap on planet Earth (a planet which, unlike Zalanthas, is rich in natural resources), you'll find that, even as an employee, your discount amounts to .. well .. diddley squat.  Now here's a world rich in resources, yet they want to make a profit and, in doing so, they offer miniscule discounts whereas Kurac, a "corporation" in a wasteland of a world can seemingly afford vast discounts to its workers..

Of course, now I'm contradicting what I said in my last post but playing devil's advocate never hurt.  Thinking back on it, the example I used about drug cartels applies to people who live in a lush tropical jungle -- a land rich in resources (the antithesis of what Zalanthas is SUPPOSED to represent).  The real root of my post is actually not about Kurac.  It's not about spice.  It's about Zalanthas posing as a dwindling, ravaged wasteland with only a few pockets of fiercly guarded fertile lands.  This isn't always well represented in game.  Perhaps describing Armageddon MUD as "Post Apocalyptic" is a bad choice of words.

[Adhira]

The real root of my post is actually not about Kurac. It's not about spice.

Perhaps you should have posed the question differently then? Are you actually asking if there is too much spice in the world? Or are you talking about resources in general like flour, water, fruit etc.

As far as Kuraci pcs smoking spice... others have given some good answers already.

1 - Nothing is free on Zalanthas.

2 - Getting minions addicted to a substance so that they're too scared to leave their supplier and will continue to work for you seems kinda smart to me.

3 - Keeping minions addicted to a substance so they're happy enough in their jobs, performing at a beneficial level seems good to me.

[ArmWindworn]

I'm inclined to agree with the second possible conclusion Pantoufle offered. I find it hard to believe that spice is so readily available that Kurac can ingest massive amounts of it and still turn a profit.

If I'm not mistaken, there are only two places in the known world that produce spice naturally. It should be a bit rarer, imo.

However, as long as Kurac sells the spice to his employees so that it continues to turn a profit, I really see nothing wrong with it.

 Having seen one Kurac  sniff spice off of a sibling belly.. yeah.. they are VERY like the drug cartels.

[Kuraci Kank]

Resources are what you make of them.  Just because Zalanthas doesn't have a lot of the resources that are used on earth, like metals, water, etc. doesn't mean it doesn't have anything.  For example.  We have a lot of rock.  We have a LOT of sand.  If spice can only grow under the sand, then you might say that Zalantas was the ideal place in which to harvest it, eh?

Also, these characters that you note smoking spice, are they members of the Fist?  If so, are they recruits?  Or are they ranked members?  Merchants?  Agents?  I think it makes a big difference who you're talking about smoking like a chimney.  If every Joe Kuraci was walking around with a brick of the good stuff in their hands, I could understand your complaint.  But if only people who could afford it, Kuraci or no, are smoking a lot of it, where is the problem?

[Pantoufle]

If every Joe Kuraci was walking around with a brick of the good stuff in their hands, I could understand your complaint.

Who is complaining?  Certainly not me.  I'm discussing.  Nowhere in my post have I worded anything as a complaint, nor have I even claimed having an opinion on the matter (I expressly state otherwise, in fact).  I just wanted to see what the rest of you think, if it made sense or if it didn't and if there are enough resources for such activity or not.  But I see now that it's impossible (at least on this discussion forum) to raise a topic without someone, sooner or later, accusing you of "complaining".

[Cale_Knight]

When I played in Kurac, those who endlessly smoked were those who had the means to do so, and would have had the means to do so even if they weren't getting house discounts.