Feel.

[Cale_Knight]

First let me say that I love the feel command, and I really want to use it more. But I hate, hate, hate the way it works with think

Could we please make feel free-form when combined with the think command. I really feel like it's too restrictive as it is now. I want to be able to do something like this:

Code Select Expand



Cale Knight circles the ugly gith slowly, parrying blow after blow.

With a sense of dread, you think:
    "He's better than me."

The ugly gith slashes you very hard on the head.

Your vision wavering hazily, you think:
    "Oh... sweet Krath."

Instead, every input for feel gets tagged after "feeling." I just think it's way too restrictive, and would love to see more room to use it.

[bloodfromstone]

Agreed. Half the time I try to use it, I end up ditching the idea because it has taken me too long to form the sentence with the proper structure for the format and I don't want to keep others waiting.

[spawnloser]

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> feel scared
You feel scared.

> think That fecking mek is gonna eat me alive.
You think:
 "That fecking mek is gonna eat me alive."
Works fine for me.

[Delirium]

Code Select Expand

Cale Knight circles the ugly gith slowly, parrying blow after blow.

With a sense of dread, you think:
    "He's better than me."

The ugly gith slashes you very hard on the head.

Your vision wavering hazily, you think:
    "Oh... sweet Krath."


This is doable.

Code Select Expand

Delirium circles the ugly gith slowly, parrying blow after blow.

>think (a sense of dread) He's better than me.
Feeling a sense of dread, you think:
    "He's better than me."

The ugly gith slashes you very hard on your head.

>think (your vision waver hazily) Oh.. sweet Krath.
Feeling your vision waver hazily, you think:
    "Oh.... sweet Krath."

[Rindan]

I tend to agree with Cale Knight that a more open ended syntext would be nicer.  Yes, you can normally peg something into the "you feel..." way of saying it, but for style reasons it is not preferable.

The only good reason I can think of to not do this is because the current system forces you to only "feel" things.  Under Cale Knight's proposed way of doing it, you could do something like:

As you reach into the ugly elf's pocket, you think,
"Shit, I hope this guy doesn't notice my hand in there."

Basically, it allows hidden emoting in a limited way.  I don't really think this would be a bad thing, but the staff might disagree.  Of course, using the feel command you could do this 'hidden emote' too, it is just a little kludgier.

Feeling nervous as you reaches into the ugly elf's pock, you think,
"Shit, I hope this guy doesn't notice my hand in there."

[Supreme Allah]

Though I use feel on its own once in awhile, the context of the think emote throws me enough that when I'm in the middle of a dialogue or something fast-paced, I don't want to bother adding to what my character's thinking.

It also tends to be redundant, because what my character's feeling is typically consistent with what they're thinking anyway.

[path]

I second Cale_Knight's motion. Awesome, awesome idea. Much more fluid and natural.

[Nusku]

There's a reason for the present syntax. The feel command is for emotions. Your vision wavering hazily is not an emotion.

[jmordetsky]

There's a reason for the present syntax. The feel command is for emotions. Your vision wavering hazily is not an emotion.

Still, it limits the players ability to tell a story. You really can't emote that your vision is wavering, and this works fine:

>think (your vision waver hazily) Oh.. sweet Krath.
Feeling your vision waver hazily, you think:
    "Oh.... sweet Krath."


Why not allow the syntax to be more open? For example:

>think (hand creeping to his belt) Alright....If I don't act now...

Feeling hand creeping to his belt, you think:
"Alright....If I don't act now..."

>palm knife

The feeling thing is cool, but it can be put there by the user. Another example of where a hard coded "Feeling" doesn't work:

>think (with a sudden pang of impending doom) Oh no.

Lots of thing can be expressed through thinks that allow a rich story telling experience that don't really need to be prefixed with "feeling". I don't see why we shouldn't extend Think to mimic Say.

[Yokunama]

Why not allow the syntax to be more open? For example:

>think (hand creeping to his belt) Alright....If I don't act now...

Feeling hand creeping to his belt, you think:
"Alright....If I don't act now..."

>palm knife

You could just do the following.

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>:places his hand at his waist

The Super-buff-dude places his hands at his waist.

>think (unsure about the situation) Alright.... If I don't act now.

Feeling unsure about the situation, you think:
"Alright....If I don't act now..."

>palm knife

[Folker]

Not to nitpick, but that actually wont work, Yokunama. Nyah nyah nyah nyah.

[Yokunama]

Not to nitpick, but that actually wont work, Yokunama. Nyah nyah nyah nyah.

Eh? Thanks, I fixed it.  

[jmordetsky]

Not to nitpick, but that actually wont work, Yokunama. Nyah nyah nyah nyah.

Eh? Thanks, I fixed it.  

I hear you. It's not a big deal, but it's just one of those stylistic things.

[Delirium]

There's a reason for the present syntax. The feel command is for emotions. Your vision wavering hazily is not an emotion.

I respectfully disagree.. and I would hate to see creative use of the feel/think command be discouraged.

I've been playing around with it since its inception.. and frankly.. I've found it to be extraordinarily useful for incorporating my character's inward motivations.  I would be disappointed if use of the feel command wasn't a little flexible.

There are physical feelings and there are emotional feelings..

So why NOT emote physical feelings (wavery vision, nausea, etc), as well as emotional feelings?

[Yokunama]

I really like the feel command the way that it is. It doesn't need to have flashy two or three lines of text.

[Delirium]

To explain what I mean:

Code Select Expand

>feel choked up, and unable to speak
You feel choked up, and unable to speak.

>think (a wave of regret) Poor ol' Jimbob.
Feeling a wave of regret, you think:
    "Poor ol' Jimbob."

>em curls ^me hand into a fist.
The grungy mercenary curls his hand into a fist.

>feel the comforting bulk of a thick ring encircling his forefinger
You feel the comforting bulk of a thick ring encircling his forefinger.

think Well, I've still got his ring.
You think:
    "Well, I've still got his ring."

>feel the threat of tears pass
You feel the threat of tears pass.

>say (waving a hand carelessly) Eh, everybody's got to kick the sandbucket sometime.
Waving a hand carelessly, the grungy mercenary says, in southern-accented sirihish:
    "Eh, everybody's got to kick the sandbucket sometime."

[Nusku]

Apologies, Delirium, you're right in that feel can be used to describe anything that you would feel, be it physical or emotional. It is not for hidden emoting, as Rindan points out.

[Tamarin]

In other words, Delirium, you have to make whatever you submit as the argument of the feel command into a noun.

feel rage (rage is a noun)

feel your hormones raging (your hormones raging is a noun phrase)

feel a raging pulse in your pants (pulse is the noun, and rage describes it)

feel your hand slipping into a black, silken pouch (your hand slipping is a noun clause..I believe)

Etc.

[Cale_Knight]

I agree that pretty much anything can be changed around to fit with the current system. 100% agreement here.

But my complaint with it is two-fold.

For one, it's just a matter of redundance. I don't like using a command that forces me to repeat myself stylistically again and again.

Second, it just feels unnatural. I keep wanting to use the feel command the same way I'd use parenthetical emotes with talk or say. Instead, I'm forced to artificially twist what's intended to what will fit the template.

I'll type something like this:

think (as the templar's gaze turns to him) Oh shit!

Then I'll go to hit return, pause, and then curse as I realize that won't work. Then I have to decide how I want to weave and wander my way towards what I really want to say by catering to the current system. Then nine times in ten I say "screw it" because the scene has already moved on.

I understand the rationale behind the way it is, but I disagree with it anyway. It's just as easy use a hidden emote with "feeling nervous as he slips up behind jimbob" as it is to use a hidden emote that goes "as he nervously slips up behind jimbob."

[Lazloth]

Apologies, Delirium, you're right in that feel can be used to describe anything that you would feel, be it physical or emotional. It is not for hidden emoting, as Rindan points out.

> feel the weight of your weapon on your shoulder is "okay" then?  When I read the helpfile initially, I remember it pointing to <emotion> specifically.

[Morfeus]

I agree with Cale_Knight. If nothing else, for me as a non-native speaker is sometime hard to express what I mean even without being forced to use the form which would fit after "Feeling..."

[bloodfromstone]

Then nine times in ten I say "screw it" because the scene has already moved on.

Exactly what happens to me. I'll live, and learn to use it if it stays the same, but it sure would be nice.

[Agent_137]

I agree with Cale_Knight. If nothing else, for me as a non-native speaker is sometime hard to express what I mean even without being forced to use the form which would fit after "Feeling..."

Then fuck it up. No one will complain, I promise. You know what you meant, and any immortals can probably figure it out.

[spawnloser]

Think of it this way, guys...

Feel and emote are the same format command.

Say and talk are the same format command.

Tell and whisper are the same format command, very similar to say and talk format.

Now...if you all can use emote, why not feel?

[Naiona]

Feel is in place exclusively for emotions.  If you are hoping for a hidden emote command, you would probably have more success advocating fora hidden emote command rather then insisting on using feel for other then what it is intended.

There are multiple reasons in game that the feel command is coded the way it is, and it functions perfectly for what it is intended.  What you are looking for is something altogether different.