ginka-points part two / what to do

[theebie]

Allright, I kinda understood that folks doesnt seem to like the idea,
but thats okay, though i have a question:

First something to my current situation: I've got a very long-lived
hunter (uh-oh, he's getting IC), who's basically set up with everything
needed, I guess most of you know that feeling. Then there's that
garrison, and its full with stuff, more than enough basic materials
of anything. The crafters will love it.

There's nothing really to do now. Sure, you can go out, hunt another
duskhorn / scrab, bring in more basic material, but there's no real
thrill behind it.

Now most will say: Ha, you dont need to hunt, its powergaming anyways
and you should rather focus on roleplaying.
...
...
But I -am- a hunter, and I'm good at it, so that is what my char would
icly do.


Now there's that merchant House, that manufactures the best weapons
and armours in the known world. They surely do need the best and
hardest to get materials in the known world for these.
My char would be able to get these rare goods, unfortunately the only
ones who could make those exceptional armours / weapons are
vnpc crafters. (due to the limitations of craftable goods in-game)

So lets say my char would get the order to bring in 5 mantis shell,
and I know its just an example, and I hope you get the point. He'd
bring in the shell and put them in a chest, and then they'd sit there.


So the question is:

What would happen to the material brought in that way ? That should
be crafted into some we-make-the-best-gear-in-the-known-world.

Same goes to mister i-make-swords. What will happen to the
two-dozend plain agafari-swords made out of all the wood in those
crates ?

regards, ---theebie---

[Tarx]

If there is no thrill behind what your character does, I would say that is a player issue that could become a character issue.  If you find no thrill behind what your character does, you can always change it.  There's other forum posts for that sort of problem, one recently on SSDD.

If you are worried about what happens to the stuff you gather and hunt for, I think that e-mailing your clan imms specifically would be your best bet.  They may have an answer for you that is more specific to your situation.  I have played a hunter of sorts for a house, and I do know that my work was definitely helpful, if that helps.

[LoD]

As this post doesn't have the words "ginka points" in it, and seems to cover a different question, I would suggest changing the title to avoid getting it locked or deleted because the other thread is still moving.

As for your question, many people have to the point at which you now sit with their character.  They have practiced and plied their trade, and now they find themselves master of the gimpka rat.  They can churn out a small fortune in assorted skinned goods in a single day's work, even though it'd be sort of cheesy and unrealistic.

So now you have a warehouse chocked full of items just waiting to be used and you wonder, "Why isn't anyone using these wonderful things?"  Why isn't there a tangible reward for bringing in 'x' of a particular item?  Why don't I get some new spiffy mantis-armor for every 6th shell I deliver?

If you want a suggestion that makes sense, here's one.  Assign a particular room of the secured Merchant House estate as the supply room, fill up the chests, crates and bins and every week, the Imm will purge everything save the empty chests and crates and simply say that the House has moved the goods for production.  Problem solved.

Any of the Merchant Houses will go through plenty of product in their virtual business, and anyone playing a PC within that organization should realize that their inidividual production and contributions are minute compared to those of the entire group.  You are part of but one section of the House, likely managed by a Junior Agent, that has been assigned to bring in food, raw materials and information.  One of the most difficult concepts to grasp is that you aren't a beautiful and unique snowflake in the grand scheme of the Great Merchant House.  You're a cog in a wheel, and the things you accomplish will likely never make a direct impact on anything other than a unit level.

I would say it is up to your PC leader to decide if the materials you bring in each week warrant some sort of reward and/or bonus for how they fit into the quota required by the House.  If I were in a similar situation, I would probably send an email to my clan Imm that I was sending these raw materials to the crafters assigned from our Unit, then junk them all and perhaps ask them to load up a few items that corresponded to the goods (i.e. gurth shell armor if there were gurth shells, duskhorn bow if there were duskhorns, etc...) and reward any PC's that really stood out.

As for what to do with your hunter, perhaps there are other hunters the House wants you to train?  Perhaps there are some rare goods they'd like you to start to accumulate.  Maybe it's time to start mapping out sections of the Known World you don't know so well, or to be assigned to a task that doesn't require your talents going to waste on dumb animals.  There are a great many options that both you and your superiors (if there are any) would have at their disposal to make your life interesting.

-LoD

[Cuusardo]

Perhaps you should try a different type of PC with your next character, one that isn't a hunter.

[Agent_137]

Perhaps you should try a different type of PC with your next character, one that isn't a hunter.

That's not a solution for her problem. Nice try, though. And it's not just her problem, I've seen it before.



--

Any house that has more hunters than crafters ends up with lots of animal skins that they have absolutely nothing to do with.

Do you "give it to the VNCP crafters" . . . i.e. Junk it? It seems like such a waste OOCly. ICly, it's proper, but OOCly it's somewhat blistering to see a coded product of you and your character's time go to the junk command.

Unfortunately, it's NOT ic to have those materials distributed outside of the house where they can be used by real players. As i mentioned in the other thread, the  houses themsevles are much much larger than the population of PCs reflects. And as i also said, this has both good and bad points. I concluded that regardless, it's a FACT.

I think this does need a solution, of sorts. We players like to keep it amongst ourselves. We generally try not to be too involved with VNPCs. Templars don't often talk to VNPCs, they usually talk to PCs. That's what this game thrives on, PC to PC interaction. And the issue theebie describes is a failure of PCs to interact, but it's reinforced from up high.

I'm going to have to go with LoD on this one. Discuss your discomfort with your clan immortals or PC leadership. Work with them to create new tasks for you, ones that don't include dropping animal parts into an overflowing shed.


Oh! Idea:

Perhaps the PC is representative of the house as a whole, and since there is an over abundance of material codedly, there must also be an overabundance virtually. Using this line of thought, superiors in the house could get the materials out into the players hands. Sell it off to a house with an over abundance of crafters and not hunters. Make a superior PC to PC market.

[Galdun]

I remember a long time ago...back when I had a hunter character in one of them spectacularly rich houses, the clan Imm had this wonderful idea.  He would post a quota on the clan board with a certain amount of common materials that looked something like this...

Month's Quota:
Duskhorn hides 4
Gurth shells 6
Gortok bones 10

etc.

Anyhow, myself and the other hunters were to gather these materials and place them in a specified chest that the Imm would check after a set amount of time.  If the quota was met, we were generally awarded with greater pay and encouragement.  In one case there was a promotion.  If we did not meet the quota we were scolded, our pay was cut, morale dwindled.  It was a good way to handle it, but I think it ended up becoming too much work or too much hassle for the Imm.

Now some of the Immortals running these houses may be too busy to implement something like this - after all, its a strategy that is somewhat removed from the code and based rather on player / staff organization.  However, it did work at motivating some of the players.  I think that in my case, it would have worked even better if the consequences were harsher if the quota was not met.  In order for PCs to learn and not sorta fall into OOC apathy, punishment and reward has to be hyper exagerated - not to the point that its just plain ridiculous, but enough so that it either stings or satisfies the player to fail or succeed respectively.  

A server wide point system is too complicated and would suffer from various peoples conflicting opinions as we've seen displayed here on the forum.  However, if you really like this idea of responsibility within your houses, responsibility to pull your weight as a lower ranked hunter or gatherer or whatever, you should contact your Imm and politely ask if he or she has time to implement some sort of simple quota.

[Rindan]

The problem with quotas is that they are very much tied to RL time spent in game.  If I log in twice in a month, I probably will not make my quota.  On the other hand, if I am logged in 12 hours a day, every single day, I will likely beat the quota by an order of a magnitude or two.  The amount of 'stuff' pulled in is tied far more to time taken away from RL to spend in game then anything else.  The success or failure of a house really should not be tied to how much people log in.

[Jarod550]

Perhaps you should try a different type of PC with your next character, one that isn't a hunter.

blasphemy...

Jarod

[Cuusardo]

If all you ever do is play the same type of role over and over again, then you are missing out on a lot.

[Jarod550]

If all you ever do is play the same type of role over and over again, then you are missing out on a lot.

Oh I've tried them all, and had some fun with them, but I like the freedom being a ranger gives.  If I want, after I have been around long enough, I don't -ever- have to come back to town.  I can just be a wild hermit, living off the land.

And I keep hoping that one day I'll be recognized for my uber rp skills so I can get to the more fun guilds...

oh and before you reply, REMEMBER, No flames...

I like to be the guy who isn't afraid to go outside the gates because he'll get lost in a sandstorm or whatever.  I don't see the purely city based roles as too much fun.

And really, I don't have to, I don't tell you folks how to play the game.  If you wanna be one of those folks who logs on for an hour and spends it all sitting at some bar, feel free, I'll be the fellow running around, facing danger at any turn, possibly dying quite a lot, and enjoying every minute.

Jarod

[Cuusardo]

And I keep hoping that one day I'll be recognized for my uber rp skills so I can get to the more fun guilds...

Good luck with that.  If you don't like any of the other guilds that you have access now, you probably won't like any of the karma guilds.

[Jarod550]

Good luck with that.  If you don't like any of the other guilds that you have access now, you probably won't like any of the karma guilds.

To never experience something is tragic, but to experience it and see it sucks, well, at least you've seen for yourself.

Jarod

[Agent_137]

I enjoy the roleplaying of this game. I don't give a damn which role it is, just how well I play it.

I've never been discontented in any role I've had. And I've tried a range of things, though I still have more on my list. Always something new! <---battle cry.

[moab]

Amen, Agent_137

[Ritley]

If all you ever do is play the same type of role over and over again, then you are missing out on a lot.

Oh I've tried them all, and had some fun with them, but I like the freedom being a ranger gives.  If I want, after I have been around long enough, I don't -ever- have to come back to town.  I can just be a wild hermit, living off the land.

And I keep hoping that one day I'll be recognized for my uber rp skills so I can get to the more fun guilds...

oh and before you reply, REMEMBER, No flames...

I like to be the guy who isn't afraid to go outside the gates because he'll get lost in a sandstorm or whatever.  I don't see the purely city based roles as too much fun.

And really, I don't have to, I don't tell you folks how to play the game.  If you wanna be one of those folks who logs on for an hour and spends it all sitting at some bar, feel free, I'll be the fellow running around, facing danger at any turn, possibly dying quite a lot, and enjoying every minute.

Jarod

You can't have tried them all. I know people who have been playing for ten years and they have not scratched the surface.

[Tarx]

Every character I've played has been duped by false sex advertising.

On a serious note, I really haven't played very many characters, but the ones I have played have delved into many areas of the game and they've met many different sorts of PCs.  Some of them have interested me, some of them have not.  The interesting ones I may end up trying in the future (their type of role that is).

Back on topic.  The quota system works for "the man" but not for the worker.  Quotas help the organization reach its goal.  They also place each hunter or gatherer in direct competition with each other, and in this case the primary competition is an OOC concept:  time logged in to play. Perhaps a quota system will work, but with some sort of limits?  That way Joe Hunter won't collect all 16 of the furry scuzzballs that Kadius needs to make furry scuzzball tunics.  The quota could be equally divided amongst the hunters available, perhaps.  You go over your quota, you're just doing work you don't need to do.  Not sure if this would work really but it seems better for each player and even the organization involved.  They'll get their quota of stuff, each hunter will gather his allocated amount.  Only problem I see is that you still depend on logging in, but I suppose that comes with playing.

[Tamarin]

You can't have tried them all. I know people who have been playing for ten years and they have not scratched the surface.

For once, I agree with Ritley.

[LoD]

You can't have tried them all. I know people who have been playing for ten years and they have not scratched the surface.

My guess is that he meant he's tried all of the class/race combinations, which is still no small feat.  I've certainly not tried every possible race/class combination in 15+ years of playing the game.

And I keep hoping that one day I'll be recognized for my uber rp skills so I can get to the more fun guilds...

No guild is inherently more fun than any other guild.  Guilds don't dictate a single thing about your character than your potential skill set.  You can play a warrior who does nothing but travel and live off the land, and you can play a ranger that never leaves the city.  Neither is being "poorly" played as long as their background warrants the choice.

A word about being recognized for "uber rp skills".  Karma, which leads to other playable races/classes, is not granted based on RP; it's granted based on trust.  Those two are somewhat linked, because part of that trust is knowing a player has demonstrated enough RP ability to make a more challenging role come alive while keeping within its limitations.

If you are playing quick flash-in-the-pan ranger characters that take a lot of risks, live fast and die hard, chances are you won't be seeing any of these other classes/races anytime soon because almost every single one of them requires a great deal of patience.  Many of them start with a healthy advantage.  That power shouldn't be quickly, or easily, given away until the person has demonstrated they can handle that role.

And that is why playing other roles can be helpful toward your development as a player.  The self sufficient and well rounded ranger class makes for a great new player class, but there are a great many other roles to be had within this game and "kinds" of fun that are completely different from the ones you may regularly enjoy.  Two of my favorite characters were completely different from anything I'd normally played:

Kaanen was a historian who would enter hostile areas when trying to secure meetings with prominent leaders and peoples in order to hear their stories.  Raiders, gladiators, slaves, nobles, tribals, etc...

Ayrus the Worm was a servant I played with the hopes of being most snivveling, groveling, obsequious personality possible, and he was a lot more fun than I would've thought.

Come up with some good ideas and try them out.  They may be more fun than you think.

-LoD

[Eniriah]

You know, this discussion has got me thinking and I am going to
implement some creative ways to deal with this for my clan.

So thank you