Just an Idea

[Bebop]

I've no problem with only getting one reroll there's nothing like the suspense of it.  But what if you could use that one reroll for one specific part of your stats.  Like say you start off your character you get good stats and then you look at you're strength and it's below average.  You're playing maybe a ranger thug raider character.  How will you subdue your helpless victimes without a buttload of training?  So instead of taking a risk to reroll all of those great stats away for one better stat, why not just take a risk to use that one reroll to reroll your strength for better or worse?

Code would be easy, reroll strength or whatever the case maybe.

Just an idea, what do you all think?  I don't really have a problem with stats I just thought this might be helpful without twinking with a bunch of rerolls and stuff.

[Agent_137]

but then there's no risk if your stat is low enough.

[Bebop]

Well if your stats are all the way low, but sometimes even if you reroll they don't change at all.  The point is, it really sucks when you have to reroll all your stats for one bad one and end up with a very inefficent character.

I don't think this could really be abused, it's just one reroll, and so what if they go from below average to average or something.  And if they're stuck they're stuck.

[bloodfromstone]

I think this would lead to more people with monster stats. Don't get me wrong, I want monster stats as much as the next person, but it should be fairly rare. I don't really like this solution, though I feel the stat system is a bit too random as is, so my vote goes to #2.

[forest imp]

I'd rather see an option during character generation to choose a single attribute above the others.  During the initial roll, that stat receives the highest of your total first rolls.  Then, if you are still unsatisfied with your stats you may reroll, but without the benefit of the picked attribute getting the highest number.

[Halaster]

We've toyed with the idea of one day doing something where you can weigh your stats and potentially get a better roll in whatever you choose.  While not a terrible idea, my personal concern would be that we'd suddenly start seeing every warrior with a great strength, and every thief with a great agility, and every mage with a great wisdom.

[Vesperas]

I think it would kinda be better to put more emphasis on in-game stat development, rather than changing the stat-rolling to make it more possible to create Super Beings.

Rather than complain about the poor stats, put forth the effort to actively roleplay trying to make your body or mind better, and maybe ask for the stat changes later on from the MUD.  I'm not sure how hot the immortals are on this idea, but I've heard it suggested before... it simply gets swamped and forgotten in all the "But my uber-kewl warrior is weak!" proclaimations.

There is, of course... those vile, vile magickers... >=^P

[Cale_Knight]

While not a terrible idea, my personal concern would be that we'd suddenly start seeing every warrior with a great strength, and every thief with a great agility, and every mage with a great wisdom.

And this is bad why?

Let's face it - if I grow up in the streets of Allanak and I'm naturally buff but slow, the odds are pretty good that I'm not going to end up as a pickpocket. The whole idea of the warrior with the laughably poor strength is a gimmick. It shouldn't be forced on anyone. There's nothing at all wrong with being a strong warrior or a quick thief. It's logical that most warriors are going to be very strong and most thieves are going to be very quick.

[Maybe42or54]

We've toyed with the idea of one day doing something where you can weigh your stats and potentially get a better roll in whatever you choose.  While not a terrible idea, my personal concern would be that we'd suddenly start seeing every warrior with a great strength, and every thief with a great agility, and every mage with a great wisdom.

Warriors could train themselves to be a better warrior and have better strength before they enter the game.

And the same for sneaky types.

Personally, I'd reroll endurance everytime.

[BlackStabbath]

I for one would think that it'd take away from the roleplaying factor of the game.

Allowing people to Min-max the stats they want would kind of be like living in a world of black and white.

Where would we ever see the fighter who relied on his wits to overcome, or a style of finesse over power?

What about the clumsy, brawny pick pocket, or the magicker with fast feet?

Warriors: From this day forth, you will all be known as Muscular Bob.

Rogues: You are now to all be called Swift Sally.

Magickers: You will all take on the title "The Wise".

From what I've seen so far, this is the most hardcore roleplaying experience I've witnessed in online gaming, why not keep it all about the roleplay, and nothing about the numbers game?

[Cenghiz]

Err... To confess, if such addition was done, I would _always_ reroll the wisdom. I like wise characters, period.
As a few of my turkish friends have experienced and told me, staff does _not_ force your warrior poor strength or your mage poor wisdom. If you wish up politely with a warrior with stats: "poor strength, below average agility, average wisdom and poor endurance" I heard they didn't mind raising your strength 'just a bit' to make the character still enjoyable.
I tried it once too.. I had above average wisdom for a mage and.. it was my first mage without extremely good wisdom. I wished up and they politely told me above average was fine enough. I played the character and yes, it was fine enough. No karma of mine has been docked or no immortal instakilled me. Just ask politely if you think your primary stat is very very low and then the staff may think about raising it.

[Folker]

Well, to be honest the whole thing is going backwards, if you'll think about it realistically. Somebody already mentioned this in an earlier post.

If you are strong, and durrable, then chances are you'll solve problems that life brings to you by force, and therefore will resemble a warrior type more then any other. If you are agile, then you would solve your problems through agility and flexibility, and so on.

For example, pick three people ... one is strong, the other's agile, and the third one is wise and place them into environment that 'guarantees' them growing up as criminals and generally dishonest individuals. Will we have three thugs? Three people robbing others via threat and force? No, if that was the only alternative possible, we'd have one succesfull thug ( the strong one) and two unsuccesfull corpses that got themselves cut down by trying to wayley someone stronger then them. But if they have survived, then chances are only one of them ended up being a thug, with the second a thief, and finally the third as some kind of a con artist.

What I mean by this, is what exactly would define a person's guild in their background? Their environment, the events that happened to them, and their physical and mental predisposition towards the guild. Meaning that it wont be a matter of all warriors being super strong, all theives being super quick, and all magickers being super wise. It'll be only strong ones ending up warriors, only agile ones ending up pick pockets, and only wise ones realizing the mysteries of magick.

That, and ofcourse the fact that their line of life would generally make them improve the physical and mental traits that are used primarily for their guild, and neglect the other ones.

In short, I'm all for specifying which attributes would your character consider primery, and which the least important and roll on that basis.

[spawnloser]

There'd been discussed something of a priority system.  I kinda like that.  Putting emphasis one way without guaranteeing that the stats would do what you wanted them to do.

I liked this idea.

Still, this was first brought up...what...years ago first?  I don't think it's going to change.

[Intrepid]

Not everyone finds their calling in Zalanthas or any other world.  Not
everyone has to have found their vocation by any means, and just
because someone picked the Thug subclass does not mean they have to
be good at it--it just means that their past allowed them that set of skills
to learn.

[Vesperas]

My longest-lived characters have been the ones with mediocre "average" stats. o.o;

[Maybe42or54]

Rerolling one stat doesn't automatically mean it is going to get better.

And as for

Where would we ever see the fighter who relied on his wits to overcome, or a style of finesse over power?

I don't think the vast majority of people RP more then strength and agility.
I don't think it will be a problem.

I've heard of people wanting all of their skills good, then another just wanting that one to be good, or people just going with the flow, etc..

I really don't think this will affect the neccessary RP, more than the current system.

[jhunter]

I'm one of the "leave it as is crowd". I've never had anything that was unplayable and some of those rolls where stats were not how I'd planned for my pc to be sort of made it fun.
Making mistakes and not being the best can be fun too people!!!

[Bebop]

People are saying ask the IMMs RP it and it will be raised up etc.  Well this seems like rare cases to me and I don't know but I don't like hassling the IMMs about things like that.

This idea is very simply it's no rerolling all your stats to go up, simply one reroll just as it has always been to potentially raise on stat.  That is like saying we can't allow one reroll for all of the stats because it will create monster stats.  Just because you reroll one stat doesn't mean it's going to become great, it just means maybe you can keep some of your other good stats.  *shrug*  Being someone who plays outdoorsy chracters almost constantly, I have had a few characters that I deemed unplayable.  The stats started out to low to the point it was frustration to survive outdoors, alot of my characters are the types that don't join Houses or the Byn.  The are self dependent.  What am I supposed to do when I can't even provide for myself?  I love RP in this game if I didn't I would be somewhere else but the simple truth is that starting your character out more than any other time before you've had some training -is- important.

[LoD]

This topic has been discussed many times, a couple of which are here:

http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15681&highlight=
http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15852&highlight=

One Immortal reply similar to Halaster's was:

Changing the current system is on the list of "Things We Would Like to Do at Some Point".  There's been a lot of good ideas generated regarding this over the years.

-LoD

[Agent_137 (2L2L)]

Yea, and there are more threads than those just posted above.

I'm pretty sure I haven't seen a new idea on this topic in about a year, at least.

Read all the old threads, see all the old ideas, see all the old reasons not to do such, and think about it.

After that, come back here if you still have something new to say.

[JustThisGuy]

I think the pitfall with stats is players expecting to be an "outstanding" character of that class.  What I mean by this is that not only do they want to be warriors, but they want to be really great warriors.  The pitfall part of it is that they think it takes really good stats to be that outstanding character (strictly in terms of combat mechanics..you RP advocates know what I mean).  It does not take great strength to be a great warrior.  It does not take great agility to be a great thief, and it does not take great wisdom to be a great magicker.  I have played one character in particular who had pretty average stats across the board, and he only encountered a few that could best him in combat.  Sure, you can't use that massive uber-warhammer in battle because you have below average strength.  Use lighter weapons.  Sure you can't wear the double plated steel armor, so wear leather and develop your defenses.  Granted, you come across a warrior with better stats and just as developed skills, you are more likely to lose, but that doesn't make you a weak warrior...it just makes you a weaker one.  That doesn't mean there aren't a bunch of warriors in the world weaker than you.  No one should expect to be the greatest anything in the world.  There can be only one, and odds are they don't even realize it (although they may have a pretty good idea).