NPC guard spam-death, subdue, and nosave

[The Jackelope]

Wouldn't it be better to just give NPC guards uber-subduing skills, and have them spam that for a few seconds?  (Rather than having them try subduing a wanted character only once, and killing him outright when it fails).

This would make it so that shadies don't need to keep switching nosave on and off (something which has inconsistencies in itself BTW... character has to become vulnerable to poison in order to protect from NPC guard insta-death...?).

Also if this were changed there might be more characters brought to trial instead of killed in the streets.  This would naturally lead to more RP'd executions and maimings and such.  In other words, death is just fine, but it's so much better to be executed slowly and cruelly by a player templar character... I'm sure anyone would agree.

[jhunter]

Trial? There are no trials. The templars are judge, jury, and executioner.

[WarriorPoet]

I like this idea. A couple of tries at subduing before intiating combat would go a long, long way in improving this particular irritation. Buff out militia NPC's subdue skill, and make them try a few times before chopping my face off for stealing a 2 sid piece of bread.

-WP

[The Jackelope]

Trial? There are no trials. The templars are judge, jury, and executioner.

Understood.

But there is a different outcome for a criminal who is successfully subdued than for one who forgets to set his nosave.  Even if in both cases the criminal may end up dead, there at least is some RP prior to death when said criminal is executed by a player Templar, vs an NPC.

[mansa]

This subject has been brought up many times before, and will be brought up many times until the code is fixed.

The immortals know about the NPCs and how they aren't affected by certain command delays.  They know that some NPCs can sheath their weapons, try and subdue, miss the subdue, draw their weapons, and then attack you, all within one game tick.

Just be patient, and the code will be changed eventually.  Perhaps after this post, or perhaps after a 'very important' pc dies to the NPC guards this way.  Or perhaps I'll change it when I get my super human powers in ten years.

I say there should be a 'nosave' against city state clans (aka Allanak Militia and Tuluk Legions) aswell as 'nosave' against everything else.  Two versions of 'nosave'.

[Sephiroto]

I have an idea.  Stop breaking the law.  Or stop getting caught.

[Mudder]

I have an idea.  Stop breaking the law.  Or stop getting caught.

Muhahahahah. That's is always a solution to the problem, no? Heh. In the words of Jim Carrey " Stop breaking the Law ASSHOLE!!!!

[elvenchipmunk]

I do agree that it can be annoying to get caught by the soldiers and cut down in half of a fraction of a milisecond blah blah blah BUT...

If you're going to commit a crime, I see no reason why you can't just go to the commoner warrens in Tuluk, or the 'rinth in 'Nak, or wherever else there are practically no soldiers (minimal if that's the best you can get), wait until night time, emote hiding, going in an alley, finding some lone person while no one is watching, and do your evil deeds on them...and before you do that, plan some sort of escape route. Always make sure you have nosave on as well, and I think a life of crime isn't all that hard to get away with (unless you kill too much, or rob too much and get noticed too much and the templars find you and stick a metal sword in your....well, I'm sure you understand).

I could be wrong on this, and might just be getting lucky in most cases, but the way I described it works, and I don't see a reason for the crime code to be changed.

If you don't want to go through the trouble of planning out the crime because your character is normal, then kill the guy/girl take his/her shit and run your ass off, hoping you don't see any soldiers on the way.

All IMO, o' course.

-Me

[Anonymous]

Well, i'll use my experience as an example. A total newb and his first brawl in Gaj. BEEP, death.

No one is against being caught, or says it's too hard to be a criminal. The point is ... it's not comfortable, and not at all realistic. Heck ... it's not at all ... entertaining.

[Pantoufle]

Also if this were changed there might be more characters brought to trial instead of killed in the streets. This would naturally lead to more RP'd executions and maimings and such. In other words, death is just fine, but it's so much better to be executed slowly and cruelly by a player templar character... I'm sure anyone would agree.

I don't agree.  If you're going to kill my character, kill my character and be done with it.  I respect a well role-played swift kill over some long grandiose (not to mention graphic) scene resulting in the loss of my character.  I can deal with the gruesome atmosphere of the game, a world where criminal's heads are skewered on spears for display, but I find the playing out of graphic torture and maiming tantamount to playing out rape, personally.  Even if I didn't find it disturbing, I'd find it just plain boring to sit there and emote out.

However, I agree with your proposal to change NPC-spam-soldiers to repeat subdue rather than instakill whenever their first subdue fails.  You raise a good point when you said that in order to not resist arrest you have to make yourself vulnerable to poison (not to mention magicks and who knows what else).  Either that or change nosave so that one can nosave individual attacks (i.e., nosave subdue, nosave poison, nosave magick, etc.)

[UnderSeven]

This particular thing has killed many characters and some or even many of them completely accidentally.  Characters whom would of otherwise in no way of been killed.  Most people who have been around long enough know this, yes it is just that old of a problem.

Here is the thing about this suggestion:  It won't change anything.  The npcs receive absolutely no delay what so ever therefore two subdue attempts then murdering you is really only upping their initial chance of success while not actually addressing the problem at all.  You'd still either be subdued or killed with nothing you could do about it.  

I remember when this problem killed my character and it was due to a total mistake, as in, I didn't even notice what I was doing.  Icly my char would of never resisted arrest, but the only way to do that would be to walk around all the time suicidally without nosave on.

I think Mansa is right and is wrong.  He's right, the staff already knows, there isn't a lot of point bringing this up, he's wrong that we should just totally sit tight.  Lets face it, this has been around a long time, years in infact and it's killed a lot of characters unnessicarily.  Arm is a harsh game and is meant to be, but that shouldn't include characters getting killed to known bugs.  It's just a shame that it happens like that.

[Anonymous]

Wouldn't the problem be solved, though, by giving all mititia/guards outrageously high subdue skill, so that their first or second attempt always succeeds regardless of whether the player 'cooperates' or not?

This does nothing for the overall no-NPC-delay issue, it's true, but it seems to address the smaller accidental-senseless-death problem quite well; and it may be a very easy suggestion to implement.  No coding should even have to be involved, just change the NPCs' skill levels and possibly their script.

[bloodfromstone]

I believe in a rather old post, UnderSeven suggested the simple fix of giving all of the NPC militia clubs. This way, when the NPC did their signature quadruple-strike to the head, the person who get knocked out instead of murdalized. They then could be dragged to jail with a cracked skull. That seems like a good quick-fix to me. I'd rather see a more indepth solution, of course, but this would keep militia from downing PCs needlessly.

[Agent_137]

i remember that post. a good year or two ago it was made.
I'm going to idea it in game now.

[Anonymous]

I have an idea.  Stop breaking the law.  Or stop getting caught.

Muhahahahah. That's is always a solution to the problem, no? Heh. In the words of Jim Carrey " Stop breaking the Law ASSHOLE!!!!

Who's to say if you're breaking the law, or slightly pushing it around a bit...

Technicalities!

Jarod