Crim-flag a punishment to player, not the character?

[Criminal]

Hey all.  I'd like to ask the general populace of Armageddon on what they think of the crim-code being a punishment more to the player than it is to the character who's got it tacked onto them.

The way I see it, most crimes are going to be an hour to two hours for that flag to wear off, whether it be hiding in shops or spending time in jail.  For your character, sure you can roleplay that out being anguishing for them, but how do you feel about that?  You get to sit with your character for the whole hour or two, waiting (unless you conveniantely committed your crime in a quit-safe room).  This prevents you, the player, from really doing anything else except Armageddon for the whole time, doesn't it?  If you leave your computer, your character will be idling (and would that be viewed as bad to the staff?).  If you let her/him idle, soldiers or templars or whoever may catch up to you, and if it happens to be a PC, you can't respond to them, because you aren't there.  Leaving your character linkdead is even worse, and definitely bad RP (using OOC concepts to get yourself out of a sticky situation).

Should the crim-code be a punishment to the player?  If you have to wait for your flag to go away, Armageddon prevents you from doing anything else, because something might happen when you're not attending to the game.  Another problem is the roleplay if you do have the time to wait.  An hour or two of solo-RP, twiddling thumbs and thinking gets tedious after a while.

So what do you think?  Is staying in hiding or doing jail time worse for you or your character?

[Rhyden]

You get to sit with your character for the whole hour or two, waiting (unless you conveniantely committed your crime in a quit-safe room).

If you're suggesting that committing a crime and quitting out is ok then you'd be greatly mistaken.

Aside from that, I like the way it is now. The punishment done to your character is reflected to the player by the amount of time spent in jail and what ever other punishment is dealt to your character. And if the player is irritated with the punishment you receive then your character probably will be as well, which means the system works.

The only reason I can think of that would be for your suggestion would be commiting a crime, being dragged to jail, being punished with a series of echos and then being sent right back out. This would of course lead to lots of abuse since you could easily comit a hundred crimes in a few hours this way.

As for whether it's worse for the player or character? Character. You're not being prisoned, you gotta wait an hour or so for your own character to get out of jail. In the mean time, whatever character you have in jail is probably debating whether a templar is going to come in and ask some questions or not and if then whether they're gonna use the whip or burn off a limb or two.

[Moofassa]

It depends on how you roleplay it. -YOU- decide the impact the punishment has on your character. It shouldn't be a punishment to the player at all. I personally enjoy getting sent to jail, specifically for the RP it brings. Yea, it can get boring sometimes, but usually you'll find a nice imm to play with, or just amuse yourself with a fellow prisoner.


My 4 sids.

[Rindan]

The punishments imposed by the code are very mild compared to what they should be.  A thief who is caught should probably be fined at the least and have his hand chopped off if he can't pay.  A few hours of the day in jail is an very gentle punishment.

As to getting wanted, I think you vastly over estimate the wanted times.  For most small crimes, it is well under an hour that you are wanted.  It is only a few IC hours which is only a few tens of minutes.

That said, if you have an alternative, speak up.  You have said what you don't like, but what is the alternative you are suggesting?

[wizturbo]

You can always wish up and tell the staff you've been naughty.  You might get some fun interactions that way, and you'd be surprised how many interesting things occur for people's characters through being arrested.

[Marauder Moe 2L2L]

It's absolutely a punishment to the player as well as the character.  I don't see what's wrong with punishing players, though.  It makes it easier to more realistically RP the risk of being caught doing something illegal.  If you can just quit out and serve your jail time you'll have more players doing risky crime and assault when really their character should think twice about it.

[spawnloser]

Plus, getting jailed and logging out robs you and the appropriate law-enforcing characters of the city with interaction.  Yes, sometimes you'd rather not have your character die due to that interaction, but it can happen.  It's a LOT more realistic than killing someone in cold blood for 7 'sid and then being out the next day without a, "how's your mother?"

[Bebop]

I totally agree with you the wait time to commiting a crime is way way to long.  Over two IG game days and sometimes over a two hour wait period the last four times I was wanted this was the case.  One time attempting to subdue someone in my hallway which I don't see as that bad.  Yet though I was in a hall lacking NPC's and PC's both, I couldn't play for the next two hours.  I had to sit around emoting sitting around for two game days.  Very akward.  This is why I can't stand to play sneaky characters because it's not worth it, you try to steal off one person and you end up not getting to play for the next two hours while you're huddle in a room.  I really like sneaky characters and those that pull it off, kudos.  Maybe I'm just doing something wrong.  I seem to be able to successfully pull of the crime and get back to a place to hide, but that doesn't take away the horrendous waiting period.

I think there are plenty IG justifications to this, just like when there are IG justifications to a soldier running in.

As well sometimes going to jail is not a good option.  They take away your weapons and I believe any other types of contraband like lockpicks already highly expensive and hard to come by.  From my experience it seems that waiting in jail does give you less of a wait time, but at a very very high cost.  And unless you've outright done something in front of PC's which alot of sneaky type characters avoid I would say it's likely that you aren't going to get much interaction within the jail.  Sure if there is some big thing with your character blantly defying a templar in a tavern or something that's one way of getting interactino in jail but I'm talking about sneaky characters who just make their day to day living through cirme.  As well in the rinth there is an obvious lack of soldiers but not all sneaky characters, are from, familiar with or belong in the rinth IC or OOC.

I personally think it would be a very good idea to reconsider the time that the wanted status stays on and maybe different amounts of waiting periods for different crimes if it's not like that already.  I think to even make a character way a RL hour is pushing it.  What are you supposed to do for a whole hour? [EDIT: Much less two or three?]  And how likely is it that the soldiers in this massive city are going to be so devout?  First of all murder happens everyday, secondly they may not have seen this crime first hand, as well not all guards may have been alerted etc, there are alot of IG reasons just as well that the wanted status should be limited, in my opinion.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

What, would you prefer they just kill you instead?

[Bebop]

What, would you prefer they just kill you instead?

I don't know how you would gather that from my post.

Here is a quote from my post in this thread that sums it all up:

I personally think it would be a very good idea to reconsider the time that the wanted status stays on and maybe different amounts of waiting periods for different crimes if it's not like that already.

[Morfeus]

I did not get why being wanted makes you unable to play. You don't want to sit in your apartment waiting? No problem, go out and get yourself jailed. You don't want that either? Try to get out of the city without being caught.

[Barzalene]

If it could be implimented, and I'm not saying that anyone should drop what they're doing to work on this, maybe this would be more realistic: If you commit a level a crime, have npcs in an area of x rooms be alerted immediately, if you commit level b crime, have npcs in an area of x rooms be alerted immediately, and after a certain amount of time have npcs throughout the city alerted for the remainder of the time you are crimmed.

[Anonymous]

I think the problem is that viewing it as a 'punishment' to the player implies a number of things about roleplaying a criminal PC and that it is 'bad'.

The reality is, however, that without deterrents against open and wanton player-killing and theft we would be at the mercy of every one with enough skill/motivation to train up a warrior who doesn't give a crap about IC motivations and just wants to kill some long-lived characters.

That's what I view the current incarnation of the crimcode as, not a punishment, but a deterrent against being a spam-stealing pickpocket or a homicidal maniac.

[Spoon]

I'm with CRW. The big picture is, the mud needs this to protect new and old players alike from bad RP.

The fact that good RPers get arrested/brutally murdered by the militia is just plain realistic.

I think getting pissed off with spending time in jail is part of the learning curve of the game. At one point you realise that you don't actually have to get caught every time you commit a crime.

[Maybe42or54]

It is the same for a Pc's death. Is it more of a punichsment for you, or your pc? Both. Why? Because now surviving where you would have died is more fun.

Getting away when you could have gone to jail a little more fun than getting rid of the time and you OOCly thinking, I'll only be in jail for 4 seconds, I'll go. Sure, what do I have to lose?

[Bebop]

I think what some of you are failing to realize is that even if you sneak away and rp the crime correctly which I have done, you still have a two hour wait time, even if you don't go to jail.  It's a deterent not only to stealing but to avioding sneaky characters such as burglars, pick pockets and assassins entirely because they are supposed to commit crimes to survive.  And I'm not talking about you have to wait that long just for killing someone in my experience it's been with any crime.  I definitely think it should be a deterent we don't want people running around hack and slash but at the same time the wait is so long, it's pretty much not worth playing the character because you don't get to -play- the character.  Sneaky characters have to commit crimes to survive I shouldn't get to play in two and a half hour intervals because I selected that kind of character that must steal.


And to get out of the gates with a wanted status on your head is pretty much insane.  For trying to steal a scarf off someone why would some poor commoner want to flee the city?

[Maybe42or54]

Yes. The police shouldn't look for you longer than you would serve, that just sounds like a waste of manpower.

[Bebop]

You know, I know some people pull these characters off quiet well but not being able to play the game for two to three hours is overly harsh in my opinion even if I manage to sneak away without getting caught by the militia there are just as many IG justifications as to why the wait time should be lowerd as there are IG justifications as to why the shouldn't.  I've stated my opinion I'm not going to bicker back and forth with comments like the above or like the one by FiveDisgruntledEtc because you aren't actually reading the posts or just want to bicker.  I'm entitled to my opinion you're entitled to your own.  I'm just trying to be constructive.

[Original Poster]

I like what Bebop is saying.  For the sake of realism, I think that even one hour for critically failing the steal skill is too much.  The streets of both city-states have a fair amount of pickpockets, so seeing one of them attempt a theft shouldn't prompt the entire militia (which I think it does for any crim-flagged person) to be on the lookout for a little under a day.

For murder or attempted murder, I can definitely see the militia being alerted, because lives are at stake, and I can see them being alerted for that amount of time.

[Spoon]

I think that punishing the player forces good RP on people. The coded shit on the floor doesn't bother you, but it bother's your PC. Your PC thus doesn't want to go to jail. You don't want to have to spend a few hours waiting around in a tiny room until your PC gets let out. You also don't want to go to jail. This way EVERY character will HATE going to jail. Even if their player is a terrible RPer, you are FORCED AGAINST YOUR WILL to think the same thing as your PC.

I think that made sense... just ask if you don't understand my e-vomit.


Also, I seriously believe that you'll get over the fact your PC recently ended up in jail for a few hours.

[Bebop]

Once again, I would simply like to reiterate.  Even if you don't get dragged to jail you DO have to sit in a small room where no one is around and wait for your wanted status to go away.  This from my experience takes RL hours.  EVEN if you RP correctly and sneak away you still have to wait for your wanted status to go away. EVEN if you just get caught mid-theft not even actually getting the item you wanted, which could be anything from a half-eaten biscuit to who knows what.  You will still be waiting like you killed someone.  It's the same thing as jail only difference is your weapons and possible contraband don't get snatched up.  That is the only difference and maybe -less- of a wait time if you got to jail.

[Maybe42or54]

If only soldiers had to the power to get rid of peoples "wanted" status if it is beneath a certain limit.

[jcarter]

Once again, I would simply like to reiterate.  Even if you don't get dragged to jail you DO have to sit in a small room where no one is around and wait for your wanted status to go away.  This from my experience takes RL hours.  EVEN if you RP correctly and sneak away you still have to wait for your wanted status to go away. EVEN if you just get caught mid-theft not even actually getting the item you wanted, which could be anything from a half-eaten biscuit to who knows what.  You will still be waiting like you killed someone.  It's the same thing as jail only difference is your weapons and possible contraband don't get snatched up.  That is the only difference and maybe -less- of a wait time if you got to jail.

If you have a TV, you can turn it on and watch it while you're in prison or do a variety of other things. You don't have to stare at echoes for three hours.

[Bebop]

The kind of defeats the purpose of playing the game for fun doesn't it?  And if you are someone who has to commit crimes for a living... uh like I said you might as well not play at all if this is what you are going to be doing the whole time right?

[joyofdiscord]

The kind of defeats the purpose of playing the game for fun doesn't it?  And if you are someone who has to commit crimes for a living... uh like I said you might as well not play at all if this is what you are going to be doing the whole time right?

The thing is, this is a completely flawed assumption.  Someone who commits crimes for a living (and does so intelligently), -doesn't- do that the whole time.  I play mostly criminal PCs, and I assure you, the vast majority of my login time is -not- spent waiting off crimflags or solo-RPing in a dungeon cell.

[Rhyden]

The kind of defeats the purpose of playing the game for fun doesn't it?  And if you are someone who has to commit crimes for a living... uh like I said you might as well not play at all if this is what you are going to be doing the whole time right?

Well then in that case, so does solo RPing. Your character dying makes the game a little bit less fun as well. I say, tuff. Deal with it. The prison cells don't have to be boring, liven it up a bit, spam some thinks in there, hone in on your solo RPing skills, contact a friend. Just don't whine because a character who mugs three citizens, steals a pocketful of 'sids or breaks into a merchant's house gets sent to prison for 1, maybe even 2 OOC hours. Geeze.

[Original Posteur]

Just don't whine because a character who mugs three citizens, steals a pocketful of 'sids or breaks into a merchant's house gets sent to prison for 1, maybe even 2 OOC hours. Geeze.

The problem is characters who try to steal a little dagger and get sent to prison for 1, maybe even 2 OOC hours.  I can accept the punishment if it's a big crime, but something that small?

[Tamarin]

Uh...that's a pretty small punishment, dood, considering what else can happen to you for larger crimes.

[Rhyden]

Just don't whine because a character who mugs three citizens, steals a pocketful of 'sids or breaks into a merchant's house gets sent to prison for 1, maybe even 2 OOC hours. Geeze.

The problem is characters who try to steal a little dagger and get sent to prison for 1, maybe even 2 OOC hours.  I can accept the punishment if it's a big crime, but something that small?

Yeah, that's really a minor punishment. In North America (which is a whole lot less harsh, in my opinion, than Zalanthas) one would pay a large fine or serve several hours of community service or go to jail for a few days for stealing some money or breaking into a house. In Zalanthas, you go to jail for half a day to a day, in the shade, with edible food, even. Trust me, some time in a Zalanthan cell is light. I think normal Zalanthan punishment should be cutting off a hand or fining you most of your earnings for commiting crimes but this would make it impossible for thieves to make a living, unlike the system we have now, where you just gotta take a time out (if you're caught).

[Maybe42or54]

Tattoos.

A tattoo to signify your a thief.
A tattoo to show a killer.
A tattoo to show a brawler.


That is what we need.

[Marauder Moe]

Haha!  Tattoos!  Brilliant idea.  I think it's make more sense to be a Tuluk thing, though.  In Allanak I think it'd be more likely for people to lose eyes, ears, and fingers.

[I]

I haven't really been reading this thread, but from what  I got it was about jail being boring. I am usually alright in jail for a small period of time. After a while, though, I start to get bored. I think it would really improve the jails if more than one PC was put in a cell, this way you can interact with somebody and have easier chances to show how your character is reacting to being jailed. And perhaps there should be an automated mercy feature which would stop you from attacking your cell mate, something simple like 'This is not a good desicion based on your situation.'

[jhunter]

Naw. If someone wants to do it, it should be possible to kill a cellmate. There should be some sort of IC consequence even if there isn't any pc templars on though.

[Larrath]

Jailcell brawling code.

[Maybe42or54]

Put an old NPC that has been in there so long she has forgot her own name.
Shee could mumble, try to figure out what day it is, count the bricks, piss herself when she hears whipping, and a whole bunch of other stuff.

We could make the prison a communal thing. Where there is a cell that goes along the wall of the room, with the weapon racks and articles of torture in the middle. So criminals can watch other fuckers get tortured (for more pm me or tell me to make anotehr thread). We can then have scripts for it. With randomly generated npcs and flavor messages.

That is where a fire is kept going, which never gets fed. With branding irons (May be made out of something else) all the way around it. Each one with a different symbol on it, waiting for its next criminal.

I think someone getting tat'ed with the symbol of thief to be a 'nakki thing. Since it is a straightforward marking. And Tulukians already have licenses and whatnot.

[flurry]

Put an old NPC that has been in there so long she has forgot her own name.
Shee could mumble, try to figure out what day it is, count the bricks, piss herself when she hears whipping, and a whole bunch of other stuff.
.

This one I think is a really really good idea.  It would be neat if you got thrown in jail and there were an NPC with a talk script on it.  That would add to the flavor and also keep you entertained for a little bit of that wait.  I like it.

[Rindan]

I think the original poster has in some regards a fair point.  Jail time I have no problem with.  The time you spend 'avoiding' guards on the other hand is painful.  It isn't painful so much in the fact that you are wanted for a while.  It is painful because the ways to avoid being caught once wanted are so few.  All of the ways to avoid being caught that I know of are border line code abuse and for the most part roughly the LAST way I would go about avoiding being caught.  Further, all the good ways to avoid being caught code wise don't work.

If I were to make any changes, I would start by throwing in more alleyways, more rooftops, and maybe even some sewers.  I would have these areas extend all the way from the 'rinth, to the elementalist quarters, and into the commons.  I would set all soldiers to patrol at a fairly quick pace of maybe one room movement every minute to 30 seconds or so.  Further, make those patrols set routs, instead of random directional spam (it should be noted that this is already done to an extent).  Get rid of static soldiers all together except in obvious spots where they would always be guarding.  <I>Fix sneak</I>.

The idea would be if you were smart and timed your movements right, you could use alleyways and rooftops to get from the commons all the way to the 'rinth.  This has a twofold bonus.  Not only can your pick pocket avoid jail time without resorting to the silly methods you have to use now, but your pick pocket can get to a place where it would make sense to hide out in.  Most criminals who commit crimes never find their way to the 'rinth because it is safer to do something silly like go into a shop and stand there for two hours.  As it stands, the 'rinth is great for committing shady dealings and the like, but utterly worthless once you are wanted as you will never get there.  The 'rinth could use more criminals.  Making it possible to get there while wanted would throw the criminal population a bone.

If you wanted to get real fancy, you could make it so that when a serious crime is committed, soldiers start to patrol the alleyways in a limited way.  This preserves the seriousness of committing an act of murder and makes it harder to escape then a simple fail pick pocket attempt, but still gives people an avenue of escape.

[Angela Christine]

The punishment is a compromise.  


It is slightly annoying to the player OOC, but shockingly light to the character IC.  For most petty crimes you will spend less than a day in prision, and then be sent on your way -- having your weapons and certain contraban items seized is a minor fine.  A desperate and inept thief probably doesn't have anything but a couple cheap daggers as weapons anyway.  (If you have lockpicks on you when you are arrested they shouldn't just take your picks, there should also be an additional sentence for being in possession of illegal items in the first place.)  The only real worry is that a templar may take notice of you before you are released.

You decide how dull being wanted or imprisoned is going to be OOCly.  In many ways it is no worse than being in a restrictive clan like the 'Byn where you may be forced by a schedual to spend time "alone" because no other clan PCs are around.  If you don't want to solo-roleplay you do have the option to keep the game window open but turn most of your attention to the TV or a book or something, just keep an eye on the screen (in case something happens) and maybe throw out an emote every 20 minutes or so to keep people from thinking you've gone linkdead or AFK.  

If you don't want to idle there are things you can do to make it more interesting.

Instead of surrendering or hiding you could try to escape.  I once found a bolt in the desert, and since I didn't use a crossbow I tried to sell it when I got back to town only to become wanted for trying to sell a militia weapon -- I didn't even know militia had their own ammunition!  My character panicked and made a run for it, successfully making it from the Salaar stall in the bazzar all the way to the dubious safety of the 'rinth despite the fact that she was not expecting to become wanted and had not scouted escape routes ahead of time (a little while later something in the 'rinth killed her, so she probably would have been better off getting arrested, but that's pannick for you).  My point is that it is possible to escape, if you want to risk it.  The 'rinth or other lawless areas are bound to be more interesting than sitting alone in your apartment or a bare cell.

If you have an apartment or other secure space, I'd be tempted to dump my valuables at home and then simply surrender.  It is unlikely that a burglar will strike in the 20 or 30 minutes you'll be in jail.


Or you could simply commit your crimes in a more lawless area to begin with.  There are plenty of places where lawmen don't patrol and your victims will try to simply attack you rather than trying to arrest you.  



Yes, the punnishments the character earns will also affect the player, that is inevitable.  Actions have consequences.  If my ranger (or his kank) becomes exhausted in the wilderness durring bad weather, then I am going to be stuck waiting a looong time for the stamina to regenerate to the point where I can get moving again because outdoor wilderness regeneration rates suck, and I'll  probably stuck in an area much less interesting and much more dangerous than either an apartment or a cell.  That code isn't designed to punnish me as a player, it is just the natural consequense of my PCs actions.


Angela Christine

[Jarod550]

I haven't really been reading this thread, but from what  I got it was about jail being boring. I am usually alright in jail for a small period of time. After a while, though, I start to get bored. I think it would really improve the jails if more than one PC was put in a cell, this way you can interact with somebody and have easier chances to show how your character is reacting to being jailed. And perhaps there should be an automated mercy feature which would stop you from attacking your cell mate, something simple like 'This is not a good desicion based on your situation.'

You can, I've been dumped into jail and had a few others with me.

It's just that sometimes that cell goes unused by pcs for long periods of time, you gotta be "lucky" to get in with them.

[Zharal]

Hmmm...I don't see anything wrong with the crime code, its harsh but fair in  many ways.. Go to Redstorm and see what happens when you break the law.  Really if ya don't like the results of committing a crime, then don't play a criminal. I believe it's set up in a fashion that helps to protect the lawful players from abusive twinks and newbs. This is a very, very old debate and I seriously don't think its going to change, lease I hope it doesn't.

[Jarod550]

The thing I want to know is how someone can SAP or BACKSTAB someone in supposedly populated areas without being crim flagged, I've seen folks do it, walk out of the room into a room with a guard and nothing.

Jarod

PS What happens in red storm if you break the law, I think that's the only city I haven't

[Zharal]

Thats IC info, go find out...

[Jarod550]

Thats IC info, go find out...

I will with the next character I hate... My current, I'm in love with...

Jarod smooches and hugs his character, squeezing it fondly

Jarod

[Agent_137]

Inkhore: That Red Storm information is NOT IC INFO. please do not say something is unless you really KNOW IT IS.

The Red Storm Militia are a rough-looking but capable force, and they have a somewhat erratic view on some things. Generally speaking, if you are caught committing a crime in Red Storm Village, your life is at stake. The militia recognize that not all outbursts need to be punished by having your head on a stake, however; brawling in the tavern is normally something that is ignored, though not if it turns to heavy fighting. The general rule in Red Storm Village is that you leave everyone else alone, and they leave you alone. It is rumored that several of the high-ranking militia were former gladiators or slaves.

Jarod550: You might get better answers to your questions if you check in the obvious spots first. Like the "What you would know if you were from Red storm" document.

[Agent_137]

Inkhore: That SAP information is NOT IC INFO. please do not say something is unless you really KNOW IT IS.

Sap is an excellent method of attack if one's presence ought to be unnoticed by soldiers of city-states. (Of course, the ensuing fight can attract attention.)

Jarod550: You might get better answers to your questions if you check in the obvious spots first. Like the "The Help file on SAP." You can even do it in game by typing HELP SAP.

[Maybe42or54]

The thing I want to know is how someone can SAP or BACKSTAB someone in supposedly populated areas without being crim flagged, I've seen folks do it, walk out of the room into a room with a guard and nothing.

Jarod

PS What happens in red storm if you break the law, I think that's the only city I haven't

They do that because.. unless someone was watching you intently, then they probably missed the guy getting smacked since you only hit him once. The following attacks really get people pissed off though.

[Agent_137]

Right. But if they're unconcious or dead, they can't really get pissed off, can they, and then who notices?

[Zharal]

Technically you are right Agent_137, so I will refrain from making comments in the future on such matters.

[Jarod550]

Inkhore: That Red Storm information is NOT IC INFO. please do not say something is unless you really KNOW IT IS.

The Red Storm Militia are a rough-looking but capable force, and they have a somewhat erratic view on some things. Generally speaking, if you are caught committing a crime in Red Storm Village, your life is at stake. The militia recognize that not all outbursts need to be punished by having your head on a stake, however; brawling in the tavern is normally something that is ignored, though not if it turns to heavy fighting. The general rule in Red Storm Village is that you leave everyone else alone, and they leave you alone. It is rumored that several of the high-ranking militia were former gladiators or slaves.

Jarod550: You might get better answers to your questions if you check in the obvious spots first. Like the "What you would know if you were from Red storm" document.

I meant the question more as, if you steal something, get caught, do they still attempt to subdue you where at least nosave will save you from being "instantly" killed by mega guards.

Not to say that you won't get killed later

Help files give you very vague explainations when it comes to stuff like this.

Jarod

[Yokunama]

Inkhore: That Red Storm information is NOT IC INFO. please do not say something is unless you really KNOW IT IS.

The Red Storm Militia are a rough-looking but capable force, and they have a somewhat erratic view on some things. Generally speaking, if you are caught committing a crime in Red Storm Village, your life is at stake. The militia recognize that not all outbursts need to be punished by having your head on a stake, however; brawling in the tavern is normally something that is ignored, though not if it turns to heavy fighting. The general rule in Red Storm Village is that you leave everyone else alone, and they leave you alone. It is rumored that several of the high-ranking militia were former gladiators or slaves.

Jarod550: You might get better answers to your questions if you check in the obvious spots first. Like the "What you would know if you were from Red storm" document.

I meant the question more as, if you steal something, get caught, do they still attempt to subdue you where at least nosave will save you from being "instantly" killed by mega guards.

Not to say that you won't get killed later

Help files give you very vague explainations when it comes to stuff like this.

Jarod

Usually, they attempt to subdue you first.

You can also use nosave to willingly surrender your character if he/she has committed a crime, and wishes to give him/herself up to the law. (This can be a good idea, since resisting arrest is not looked upon highly.)

Note:
Nosaving when soldiers are trying to subdue you will allow them to do
so, sometimes preventing them from attacking.

[Dakurus]

You can ask around in Red Storm about the law. Some of the soldiers, or perhaps at the bar.

Folks in red storm still socialize, do business and what not, but it's often no more then skin deep, because it's understood that you don't want to dig any deeper then that.

Red Storm law is brutal.

[Yokunama]

After reading Dakurus post, it made me think a little.

Where you commit the crime is one thing you want to pay attention to. Different places have different means of handling criminal situations. As a person of criminal acts, you should study the law and its consequences. Also, find out how the enforcers of the law enforce it (Do they take bribes, do they kill first and ask questions later, etc.) and maintain the pace within the area.