NPC Merchants and their sid

[I]

Okay so the trading and such with NPCs in the game goes something like this:

>offer sword

The NPC says:
"I shall give you 50 coins for your sword"

>barter

The NPC says:
"Fuck you, I'm not paying that much!"

So then to get as much sid as you want, you have to count down from 50 one by one until they finally agree and pay you your money. Now, I don't do this very much because it is really tedious and annoying, so I was thinking maybe instead of saying "No I wont buy that", they could say "I can't afford that much, how about 35 sid?" or someting similar to give you a better idea of how much they have in their pockets.


Another thing, say you buy 1.dagger instead of 2. dagger by mistake for 250 sids so you try to return it right away and only get 50. I think there should be a time based return policy sort of thing, you have it for one hour IG, you get a full refund, two and you get maybe 3/4 of your money back and then the amount will decrease with time to a minimum depending on the item.

So, maybe they are not necessary, but still things I would like to see. Yes? No?

[elvenchipmunk]

I like all those ideas. Especially the one about the time limit on the return. I know it's really annoying to buy something by mistake, blow half your starting money on it, all by accident, and then have to bother the imms by wishing up. I guess you could just be more careful, but sometimes that finger just slips...

So, ya, good ideas IMO.

[Bogre]

Oooh, I like the return thing. But it needs to be in a very short time period.

[Cenghiz]

For many crafts, crafters produce items that NPCs can't simply afford. The crafter's already willing to give away the item for the money the NPC has got, but the fool NPC insists on blubbering prices he can't afford.

The NPC merchant says in Sirihish:
   "Bah it's too much. I realized I only have 1097 'sids."

.. would be a very nice addition.

[FightClub]

*camps outside the local newbie swelling stores, waiting for harmless newbie to buy items* TWAT BACKSTAB TWAT you kill them in face, and sell back for full price, GLEE goes the robber with all of his new gold as he buys a new SCIMITAR OF DEATH.

[Maybe42or54]

For many crafts, crafters produce items that NPCs can't simply afford. The crafter's already willing to give away the item for the money the NPC has got, but the fool NPC insists on blubbering prices he can't afford.

The NPC merchant says in Sirihish:
   "Bah it's too much. I realized I only have 1097 'sids."

.. would be a very nice addition.

I don't like it.

Some people are just going to buy an item with their barter skill and make it drop 200 'sid, then barter it back and oversell it 200.

So no bartering on returned items.

And I think it would be better if said NPC had 1097 coins, but said something like this:

The NPC merchant says in Sirihish:
   "Bah, too expensive, I am willing to pay 500 coins and no more on you."

[Cenghiz]

Got me wrong.. I meant.. There's an item worth 990 'sids.. You haggled hard to take the price up to 1412 'sids. Then the merchant simply said "I don't have the coins.. Fuck off."
Or there's an item worth 1452 coins in the beginning and the merchant does only have 900 'sids.
In these conditions - when the merchant does not have enough - let him say how much he has. He normally would.

I don't think returning items is a good idea in the beginning anyway.

[Maybe42or54]

And I don't see why the shop person wouldn't ltake advantage when you look like you want to get rid of the item and he has the full amount, but then he says, "Oops, I forgot. I know I said I'd pay 950.. but.. I only have enough to pay you 875. Still want to sell it?"

[mansa]

I do not want a timer for a return policy.  That's not realistic to the game world.  Customers do not have 'rights' in Zalanthas.


I -would- love to see shops buy at decreasing prices when he is starting to get full of stock, which is the magic number five.

i.e. the NPC merchant purchases one 'A CURVED OBSIDIAN SWORD' at 50 coins from a player, then the next at 40, then the next at 30, then the next at 20, then the next at 10.

I -would- love to see shops not have a limit of five items, too.  But that would only be put into place if the NPC merchant lowered the price of buying from a player.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

mansa wrote:

I do not want a timer for a return policy. That's not realistic to the game world. Customers do not have 'rights' in Zalanthas.

True. But neither is saying "I want the black, chitin-bladed shortsword", only to have the shopkeep give you the little black dress instead. For some reason, you willingly hand over three hundred more 'sid than you initially wanted to pay. When you hold up the dress and say, "hey, what the fuck shopkeep, I wanted the sword!", the guy then says, "oh, yeah, sorry about that... give me another two hundred 'sid, and I'll get the sword down for you." It's like some weird form of mugging... that just doesn't happen in real-life.
Every once in a while, we all type "15" when we meant to type "14"... it happens. A two minute time window allowing us to return items is not ridiculous or un-Zalanthan.

[Xygax]

Actually, I rather like the idea of a "return" command with a short grace-period, since 99% of the time, these issues are caused by an OOC mistake (whoops, typed the wrong number and got sandals instead of a sword), rather than an IC one (whoops...  I said "sandals" to the shopkeeper, and then paid for them and walked away when I really meant to buy a sword!).  I also think having the NPC announce his maximum price would be nice.

Both good ideas.

-- X

[My 2 sids]

I'm with FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit here.  Perhaps having a friendly return policy isn't realistic for game, but I don't see that as being the case here.

I mean it's a shop right?  So at some point a character (the shopkeep or the customer) is going to have the item in hand, looking it over, and deciding yes I want this or no I don't.

BTW, this timer would also take care of the annoyance of having to perchase an item just to realize one can or can't use it for crafting.

[Rindan]

I mean it's a shop right?  So at some point a character (the shopkeep or the customer) is going to have the item in hand, looking it over, and deciding yes I want this or no I don't.

BTW, this timer would also take care of the annoyance of having to perchase an item just to realize one can or can't use it for crafting.

Personally, I think that this is the best part of the idea.  There are times when I really just want to hold the damn object for a few seconds.  I want to make sure I am strong enough to wield it, that it works with what I want to craft, that it is the right weapon type, or whatever.  With any PC merchant, you would just ask to hold the object and maybe hand over a few 'sid as collateral.  With NPC merchants, you are SOL.  This would be a nice solution.  You can hold the object if you want, but you need to turn over your 'sid first.  If you don't want it, just hit 'return' and you swap back the object in exchanger for your 'sid.  This not only eliminates the problem of buying or selling the wrong item, but also eliminates the issues about being limited in the amount of information you can gain from an item without holding it.

[Bebop]

I like the return command also, one time I meant to spent 14 sid and I ended up hitting buy #14 and bought something worth 250 with my starting money, my character was fucked up from the beginning and I was soooo pissed at myself.

Anyway, I like both ideas actually.

[Tarx]

Heh.  Having experienced this myself, I'd be more than happy if you could return items.  Especially if you're at a place with traveling merchants...

[daedroug]

#1 about the whole wanting to hold a weapon to find out if you can use it or if you can wear armor, i understand what yer talking about but thats just as easily found out by the view command. As for crafters i think they aughta add what you can craft out of it to the view command.

#2 messing up and buying the wrong thing i like it thoughthere might be some problems and i'd just like to suggest the idea of instead when ever you go to buy an item over....say 50 sid it comes up with a little dialogue that says are you sure that blah blah blah is what you wanted to buy? then you can say yes or accept or what not and finish the transaction

[Maybe42or54]

I like that.

Of course I also
view #14
*read it quickly*
Buy #14


Or if someone else buys something, I'll View until theys top then quickly buy something.

And I never buy the wrong thing.


Instead of a non armageddon "return policy."

Buy #14
The guy says, in sirihish, "Are you sure you want to buy that?"
You say, in sirihish, "yes."
The trade begins.

A little longer I guess, and people are still going to "buy #14:say Yes."
If you aren't going to be careful when buying, then the seller is a smooth operator.

[Larrath]

How about this?

If the character who bought the object typed no commands after 'barter/buy', with the exception of 'look' and 'inventory', they're able to return the object for a refund.
This is to cover people's fingers slipping or using the wrong keyword.  If you buy an object and Analyze it, or say something, or do whatever, you're stuck with it.  After all, it would be simpler to combine Analyze with View than to allow people to buy object, analyze and then return them.

I do see one potential problem here, due to object flags (buy a new obsidian breastplate and immediately 'return' a cracked obsidian breastplate your friend gave you), so it would be needed to give the individual object a temporary 'returnable' flag.  That flag could simply disappear after the object can be returned.  It could be based on time (expiring after five RL minutes, for people who have to reconnect), location (so they can't follow and return the object into another shop), and special commands like Value, Craft and Analyze that would remove it automatically.
I think it's fairly simple to code, and would make the MUD much more player-friendly.

Buying a silk greatcloak instead of a sandcloth greatcloak really sucks, and only ends up wasting player and staff time.  Plus it's just very awkward if it gets resolved via NPC animation.

(Hey you, I put those three 'sids on the counter so you take them and get me the vest, not so you take my entire coinpouch and sell my sister as a slave to gather the funds and then get me the steel-spiked pants, so get it right).
^^^
Awkward.

[daedroug]

as a good as an idea that might sound. it seems a little too much work then could just as easily be solved with a confimation statement. prolly have something like this
buy #13
the ugly dude pulls out a monster super sword and shows it to you
the ugly dude says in sirihish "Are you sure you want to buy a monster super sword for 300000000 sid?"
you tell the ugly dude "no"
the ugly dude puts back a monster super sword
buy #14
the ugly dude pulls out a puny little cheap dagger
the ugly dude says in sirihish "are you sure you wanted to buy a puny little cheap dagger for 2 sid?"
you tell the ugly dude "yes"
you hand 2 allanaki coins over to the ugly dude and he hands you a puny little cheap dagger.

Tada i suppose you wouldn't need the npc to emote the getting and putting back but it would be pretty cool. but anyways just that simple little thing would most likely take care of all instances of accidental buying (short of those that decide to type in both the buy and the yes at the same time or really quickly which would be pretty dumb so you deserve it :-P).

[I have good ideas.]

Just have buy work like offer does.

>buy #13
The merchant tells you "I will sell you a blah, blah blah for 50 obsidian coins."
>barter
You trade blah blah blah...

You shouldn't need a return command after that.

[Anonymous]

as a good as an idea that might sound. it seems a little too much work then could just as easily be solved with a confimation statement. prolly have something like this
buy #13
the ugly dude pulls out a monster super sword and shows it to you
the ugly dude says in sirihish "Are you sure you want to buy a monster super sword for 300000000 sid?"
you tell the ugly dude "no"
the ugly dude puts back a monster super sword
buy #14
the ugly dude pulls out a puny little cheap dagger
the ugly dude says in sirihish "are you sure you wanted to buy a puny little cheap dagger for 2 sid?"
you tell the ugly dude "yes"
you hand 2 allanaki coins over to the ugly dude and he hands you a puny little cheap dagger.

Tada i suppose you wouldn't need the npc to emote the getting and putting back but it would be pretty cool. but anyways just that simple little thing would most likely take care of all instances of accidental buying (short of those that decide to type in both the buy and the yes at the same time or really quickly which would be pretty dumb so you deserve it :-P).

As bad as the grammar in this post is ... I love this idea and implementation process.  

[daedroug]

::shakes fist at grammar freaks::