Newbie-Baiting

[Synthesis]

Just a friendly reminder that goading newbies into doing stupid things that are liable to get them killed is extremely poor form, and twinkish.

Sure, they ought to know better than to frolick down Hathor's Way, and theoretically they should have read the documentation stating that it's dangerous outside the gates, and people are liable to kill you, but we all know that most people just jump into the game after briefly perusing the documents.

Not to mention that the strength of this game depends on a steady influx of new players, and getting a newbie gangbanged in the Gaj because he doesn't know that the three NPC soldiers in the vicinity will initiate a full-scale assault on his ass as soon as he types 'hit stooge' is -not- the way to keep new players around.

So, come on people:  use some common sense.  If some guy is wandering around, using say instead of tell, and tell instead of talk...if he's asking every second person who walks in about the Byn...if he's emoting things like "The tall muscular man scratches head," -don't- take advantage of him just because you can.

Killing a newbie is -not- the way to teach him about the "harshness" of the game.

[Larrath]

Suggestion: if you see a player abusing the game - by cheating, obviously using OOC information, tricking newbies, spamming commands or avoiding the quit, ldesc, emote or any other commands, send an email to the MUD account.
No, you shouldn't email about every other spam-hunter or elf who steals two things in a row, but if someone is seriously harming the game, gather the information you have about them (sdesc, name and keywords and mdesc), save and clean up a log, and email the MUD about it.

It's only logical that at least half of all the newbies who were tricked like that (being told to do a coded action where they shouldn't, or tricked into going someplace they shouldn't) would leave the game.  And it's not like people would get banned based on one instance of mad stealing, so don't feel about it.

Fresh blood is much more important to the game than established players who would dry up the blood for their own advantage.

[Anonymous]

I hope you reported this.

[moab]

Amen and Amen.

[amoeba]

And please, if you can find an IC way to interact with a newbie, especially one obviously begging for interaction, please do so. When you don't even respond and you see them go to the quit area and quit, there is a good liklyhood they are not coming back.  I understand sometimes there is no way of streching for an IC reason, which is why I didn't react to this newbie, but it is very frustrating seeing a whole roomful ignore him.

[Bogre]

Be nice to the newbies.

[Sanvean]

Be nice to the newbies.

Ditto.

[Cale_Knight]

I saw a newbie get gangbanged in the Gaj yesterday, and I don't think the player who goaded him into it was trying to bait him at all - what got him was the unfortunate difference between the brawl code and the kill code, not any malice.

My only suggestion would be an ooc whisper to the newbie in the future giving a quick explanation of the difference between "hit" and "kill" in taverns -before- he goes and gets himself killed.

[Yokunama]

~fixing~

[Yokunama]

Suggestion: if you see a player abusing the game - by cheating, obviously using OOC information, tricking newbies, spamming commands or avoiding the quit, ldesc, emote or any other commands, send an email to the MUD account.
No, you shouldn't email about every other spam-hunter or elf who steals two things in a row, but if someone is seriously harming the game, gather the information you have about them (sdesc, name and keywords and mdesc), save and clean up a log, and email the MUD about it.

Does this include people who's soul purpose is to PK fresh PCs?



:oops: [Note] Sorry about the double post. :oops:

[jstorrie]

Does this include people who's soul purpose is to PK fresh PCs?

Since there is no IC distinction between a 'fresh' PC and a PC of the same age that started his player-character-ness earlier in life, yes, going around and killing new PCs simply because you know they're new and unskilled is definitely, obviously abuse.

[jmordetsky]

Seriously, Love up some noobs if you can. Get the game number over a regular 50, even if it's not the ICest for you thing to do.  

I know it's tempting. I often note the poor use of grammar and charlton leather boots, and think "This little bastard is carrying 1k in cold cash." But as responsible players we need to get past out greedy impulses and do the right thing.

You can always kill them once they figure out the emote code a few days down the line and are already hooked.

[proxie]

Be nice to the newbies on an OOC level.  That means don't feed them things that a sane Zalanthan wouldn't eat, don't goad them into making silly decisions that their characters wouldn't do, try not to take advantage of their lack of knowledge of how the code of the game works.

On an IC level, give them something to make their adrenaline flow. Have a little fun with them and try and be the one that gives them that "That was so cool!" response that hooks them.  And then help them get out of the trouble you stirred up on their behalf.

Zalanthas is, afterall, harsh. But there are proper and improper ways to show the newbs some of that.

Proxie

[drunkendwarf]

I couldn't agree more with these posts. Nothing pisses me off more than seeing someone obviously abuse newbs. I don't care if it's not very IC for me, if I see a newb in obvious need of help and no one else is around, I'll help them...after all, no one else is around to see it. After that, I'll jump back into character, and go on about my business...but I agree entirely, any way we can snag these people and gently push the needle in needs to be done! Make them walk away thinking about this place. Make them realize how awesome it is. This game is WAY better when there's a higher playerbase than we currently have. What's better? a quick, hard 1k in cash by goading some newb to their death, or having a higher playerbase overall to enact your evilly wicked villainous plans on?

[Possible Guilty Party?]

As the original post of this thread may be directed towards me, I want to take some (albeit anonymous) blame and explain a little.

My response to the character was ICly, and OOCly I made an assumption the brawl code would kick in and he wouldn't be instakilled by the guards.  Eventhough he may have been a newbie he was responding very ICly to a situation and was RPing well.

I'm a strong believer in helping newbies, but without diluting roleplay for them.

I felt bad after he died, as I realized it was partly due to the fact that I had not realized my surrondings and goaded him into the fight.  The scene played out completly opposite than I expected.

I'd like to apologize to the new player if he is upset about it, I was just as suprised as he may have been, and I hope he keeps playing.

On the whole however I completly agree with this discussion.  Newbies should not be exploited for being newbies.  It's OOC knowledge, and just as bad as using any other OOC knowledge ICly.  At the same time though, newbies should be presented with the same game as everyone else.  A complete asshole hardass who's very set in his ways shouldn't suddenly become a bunny hugger around a newbie.

[Ritley]

I got attacked with my first character. Luckily not killed. However it was a totally IC thing to do with his character.... just because there is a newbie around doesn't mean we should go OOC. Remember if they quit just because there first character died then they will probably quit later on.... I didn't quit because my first character died. Thing is I don't think you should use OOC knowledge that that player is a newbie. I believe you should treat him like you would treat anyone else.  That's the true way to get them addicted. If someone was all soft with me about with my first character I probably wouldn't have played looking back.

[moab]

While valid to a point, Rittley, the new player is hampered because he may not understand that using the kill command in a public place is going to get him pasted, he might not even know how to wield his weapons.

The active targeting (for violence) of players that are new to the game is what we're talking about here.

[Ritley]

While valid to a point, Rittley, the new player is hampered because he may not understand that using the kill command in a public place is going to get him pasted, he might not even know how to wield his weapons.

The active targeting (for violence) of players that are new to the game is what we're talking about here.

I just do what my character would do. ICly my character can't tell the difference between a newbie and a experienced player, because ICly they don't exist. I treat a newbie in game like I would treat any experienced player like them. And ICly if a newbie attacked someone in the Gaj my character would think him one crazy fecker and probably help the attacked guy out.

[moab]

You can't help but ignore metagame issues, nor can you always just blindly "do as your character" would do.

To say that you always do _just_ as your character does is to demonstrate your naivete.  You may think that you're a hard-core roleplayer, but until you can separate IG from OOC, you are not.  There are times to step outside of your game and assist others who don't know the basics.  Doing so in a tasteful way is a sign of excellence.

There will be a time when your character would do something, like go on guard duty and you have to log out.  Do you do what your character would do or do you metagame and logout?

Further, a responsible player (as others have already said) assists the game in development of the playerbase and helps new players when it is obvious they need help.  This is metagame and a hallmark of the excellent and experienced player.

Finally, you don't have to quote an entire post if the post was just before yours.  It's silly and annoying.  :-D

[Ritley]

Well I blindly do as my character would do. And to be honest you should too. I'm not going to be nice to a newbie just because they are new. I will treat them like I treat everyone else. That will help them see the harshness. I do not act on OOC knowledge and that's all there is to it. End of story good bye.

[Ghost]

You may think that you're a hard-core roleplayer, but until you can separate IG from OOC, you are not.  There are times to step outside of your game and assist others who don't know the basics.  Doing so in a tasteful way is a sign of excellence.

Very well said.

[Ritley]

You may think that you're a hard-core roleplayer, but until you can separate IG from OOC, you are not.  There are times to step outside of your game and assist others who don't know the basics.  Doing so in a tasteful way is a sign of excellence.

May not be a hard core RPer, but I do my best. My very best. It also brings me back to my first point. Harshness is one of the best things about Arm do we really want newbies to miss out on that?

[jmordetsky]

I'm the hottest!


Oh, wrong thread. Sorry.

[Naiona]

Ritley - IC harshness and OOC harshness are not the same thing.  While your characters may want to harm other characters, you should never OOCly want to harm the enjoyment of other players.

A new player is often lost and unsure if they will even be able to cut it in such a strict RP environment.  It is perfectly acceptable to do some small OOC things to make the player (not the character) more comfortable.

And while it is not required that anyone help a new player, it is absolutely not acceptable to look for them and take advantage of their newness in an OOC fashion.  No one should ever be using OOC knowledge to "get ahead" in Armageddon. That's not roleplaying and it isn't what the game is about.

[Ritley]

No one should ever be using OOC knowledge to "get ahead" in Armageddon. That's not roleplaying and it isn't what the game is about.

Never use OOC knowledge for anything. And that was exactly the point I was trying to explain on one of my earlier posts. I would never use OOC knowledge that the newbie is a newbie, but if a newbie insulted my character I would do what he would do - which is (because I like badass characters) usually killing them. And if a experienced player done the same he would be dead as well. I treat them both the same. If you want I will be nice to newbies even if it is totally OOC for my character, but to be honest I think a newbie should enjoy the harshness. Not OOC harshness, but IC harshness. If I have to kill a newbie for whatever IC reason I will. Goes the same with experienced characters. Like I said I treat them both the same.