Your GDB Reading Habits

[Sanvean]

The staff is trying to get a better feel for how much moderation is needed on the GDB.

Questions that have been raised that I'd like feedback on.

Does a small group of players dominate the boards and make other players feel like they can't post.? If you're a habitual non-poster, can I ask you to break that habit and say why?

How frustrating is it when topics gets derailed?  Does it make the board less useful to you?  What would you like to see happen?

What do you want/get from the boards?  What needs would you like to see them fulfilling that they're not now?

What forums are useful/enjoyable and what should be trimmed, if any?

[Gaare]

I voted, the GDB is just fine, because even there are some unneccesary voices raising, I do not think moderation is a solution, in other words, I do not think there is a solution anyway. Moderation brings extra responsibilities for IMMs, also some misunderstandings harm the relation between players and staff. Our GDB could be better, but it is fine enough for me.

[Larrath]

Does a small group of players dominate the boards and make other players feel like they can't post?

I'm not really aware of any such cliques, myself.

How frustrating is it when topics gets derailed?  Does it make the board less useful to you?  What would you like to see happen?

Derailment is both necessary and frustrating.  I've had a couple of my own posts that went practically unanswered beyond the derailment, and I did feel frustration at it.  However, we as the GDB community also need a place to express ourselves, which includes derailment.
I think that the ideal solution is to have a third Derailment thread, wherein any post older than 20 days will be automatically deleted.  I think it would be a good balance between system memory and posting freedom, and it also helps to lower the noise in the real threads.

I'd like to see two changes in the board:
First of all, logged in users should be able to post anonymously.  This will let them edit their posts, and also stay anonymous in clan boards.
Second, it might be nice if the original poster in each thread would be able to move worthless posts away from their thread and into some garbage thread.  If the post was moved unjustly then the staff could put it back there, but otherwise I think it could really curb derailments and flames.

(A deleted post, in the thread where it has been deleted, would be shown as one line containing the name of who deleted and their explanation, also to prevent abuse.)

What do you want/get from the boards?  What needs would you like to see them fulfilling that they're not now?

When I was a newer player, I primarily wanted information about the game, in order to get along better ICly.  Threads about topics like common swearwords and idoms, and general city-state culture and the differences between the locations have all been helpful.
Nowadays, the threads I find most helpful and interesting are the ones in the Roleplaying and Code forums; examples of which would be the current thread about lying (RP board) and the dehydration rate and kanks (Code).

What forums are useful/enjoyable and what should be trimmed, if any?

I think that the forum that needs trimming is the Archives, and the reason is this; the GDB has a circular nature.  Almost every 'good thread' has already been raised once or twice in the past.  However, these threads are buried in the Archives where they're both ignored and impossible to reply to.
What I think should be done is to remove (or cross-post) these threads into their appropriate forums, and make them Sticky.
This way, they won't be brought up again and again and again... and if someone wants to read the cream of the crop, they can just go to the archive forum.

[JollyGreenGiant]

Does a small group of players dominate the boards and make other players feel like they can't post?

Yes.  There are several very "loud" voices on the GDB who will argue things to death under the guise of "defending" their argument when in reality it's simply that they can't let someone else have the last post on a subject.  If you haven't persuaded your audience in one post and one defense, you're sunk.  If you have something completely new to say on the subject, that's different, but any thread in which 3-4 posts in a page are nothing but picking apart someone else's argument one quote at a time is dead to me, and unlikely to be anything in which I'll find useful information.  At this point, the topic is fit for nothing but the "mark all topics read" button.

How frustrating is it when topics gets derailed? Does it make the board less useful to you? What would you like to see happen?

I dislike it when topics get completely derailed for two reasons.  The first is that it disguises useful information.  A newbie looking for information on the T'zai Byn might not think to look in a thread titled "Kanks", even though the topic has somehow diverged from the T'zai Byn to the fact that kank can't climb out of holes that patrols ride them into.  The second is that derailing tends to be synonymous with the degeneration of the usefulness of a topic.  If it's worth posting a derailing thread on, it's probably worth its own topic, with perhaps a post in the original thread pointing to the new topic.  A warning ("This thread is starting to derail") followed by a few deletes-with-explanation ("your post was too off topic.  If you'd like to make a new thread, feel free") should be sufficient encouragement for players to alter their posting patterns.

What do you want/get from the boards? What needs would you like to see them fulfilling that they're not now?

I'd like to see an area specifically for informative posting or questioning.  Right now, "Ask the Players" and "Ask the Staff" perform that function, but they're so cluttered with things that aren't all that relevant that it can be hard to find useful data in the noise.  It would be nice if there were a completely separate area to ask, "What is isilt?" instead of having to post that in the same forum that someone is posting, "Should magickers all be forced to wear top hats?"  I'm not suggesting we get rid of the "What's your opinion?" forums or posts, just that we need a separate area for people to ask information-type questions.  "Ask the Helpers", perhaps.

[Cale Knight]

Does a small group of players dominate the boards and make other players feel like they can't post.?

Rather than this, I feel like there are certain posters who are extremely unfriendly towards questions from newbies and who go a long way towards making the MUD in general seem that much less friendly.

[Kalden]

Does a small group of players dominate the boards and make other players feel like they can't post.?

Yes, but not in the same way that you might think.

How frustrating is it when topics gets derailed?

I've gotten used to it.

Does it make the board less useful to you?

I suppose.

What do you want/get from the boards?

Gameworld discussion, issues with the code, roleplaying etiquette, ect. These things are already discussed but there's often little staff response (crime code). In the end it can seem pointless.

What needs would you like to see them fulfilling that they're not now?

The idiocy of many players is revealed pretty well by the forums...I'm not sure.


I don't think the GDB can generate that many topics without resorting to silly/ridiculous/OOC things. If these people want to do those things, let's just keep them in the OOC Chatter. Redundancy is also inevitable.

[LoD]

Does a small group of players dominate the boards and make other players feel like they can't post.?

I think there are some people who post often that may not have the best approach, information or presentation of their thoughts.  Some people have felt newbie questions are treated unfairly, or that a post came off as sarcastic, elitist or hostile.  This happens, and I think that everyone could  be more aware of the tone of their speech.

I appreciate good open debate and don't mind seeing the same people posting back and forth as long as the posters bring about new material, support their opinions with facts and/or examples and keep a neutral tone of voice.  Forums are never going to be perfect, but hopefully they can remain civil and informative.

How frustrating is it when topics gets derailed? Does it make the board less useful to you? What would you like to see happen?

The things that frustrate me are the one-liner replies that don't really have anything new to add and seem more like an attempt to derail and get some attention (Look at my funny post, LOLZORZ!).  While I don't think it's worth moderating, I wish less people would add those kinds of replies to topics where someone is trying to make a point or debate.  Perhaps if the same poster seems to constantly be adding these types of replies they could be warned.

What forums are useful/enjoyable and what should be trimmed, if any?

I find all of the forums useful except for "Idle OOC Chatter" and "Player Announcements".  I realize the need for OOC Chatter because some people apparently would explode if they couldn't have some forum dedicated for silliness.  The Player Announcements I don't find useful because I personally stray from the "we already know each other" character setups for my characters.

-LoD

[moab]

...things are fine the way they are...
...also not aware of any cliques...
(well, acception being AC's clique of one - but s/he has awesome posts)
:-D

...staff does good moderation at this point I would stay steady at the helm if the computer can handle it.  Maybe move the gdb to its own machine?

[sarahjc]

Does a small group of players dominate the boards and make other players feel like they can't post.? If you're a habitual non-poster, can I ask you to break that habit and say why?

I think certain people post often. And all you need to do is look at the top twenty to see who that is. I don't think anyone particular dominates the board however. It's an open forum.

The only thing I really don't like is when "weathered" players down talk  a newbie opinion because they are new and might not understand things, instead of explaining issues and being helpful. This can often make a new player less likely to post future opinions and questions.

It also annoys me to no end when people reply with one-sentence snipes to questions, that have no benefit whatsoever except to make the original poster feel stupid and to up their post count.

How frustrating is it when topics gets derailed?  Does it make the board less useful to you?  What would you like to see happen?

As long as it doesn't fly completely south, it doesn't bother me.

What do you want/get from the boards?  What needs would you like to see them fulfilling that they're not now?

Information and discussion on the game world. I look for better ways to do things. Learn about things that I didn't know before and to help other people that have questions.

The GDB was a big help to me when I was a new player, so I like to make sure it's a friendly environment for other new players.

And I think I get all that from the board currently.

What forums are useful/enjoyable and what should be trimmed, if any?

The forums I look at most are Ask the Staff, World Discussion, RP discussion, Ask the players and whatever clan I am in. OOC Discussion if there is something there that peeks my interest. Most of the time I refresh the last 24 hours of postings.

I think we could do without General Clan Discussion. I don't thing anyone even posts there.

[adrien]

some people are assholes about grammer and gamming ideas

but the place is fine to me.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

I'm not sure if anyone's noticed, but I have been posting a lot less in the past few months. Off-topic stuff has never bothered me. Making fun of mansa's dancing and other innocent joking is part of the reason I come to the boards... it's entertaining to read, and entertaining to write on.
So why have I been posting less? Length. Back in the day, it was a rare thing when a topic reached four or five pages. It meant it was a hot or interesting issue, and probably well worth wading through several dozen posts, even if some of them were jokes or reiteration. But nowadays, it seems like six, seven, eight page long topics are the norm. And I simply don't have time for it.
Moderators sometimes lock threads on the charge that a similiar thread already exists. So GDB users find and ressurect the old thread, and it balloons into a bloated ten-page-long Frankenstein monster of a debate that I'll never get a chance to read with my busy schedule.
I can't say whether I'm against "more" moderation or not. It's too broad a question to answer. I like some types of moderation, and other types I'm not crazy about. But if we could somehow cut back on the twenty-page-long topics, I'd be happy.

[facehugger]

My personal feelings...

I log in to check the clan board. Every once in a while I'll scan the new posts list to see if there's a topic that looks interesting, and then scan that topic for any imm responses to see if its gotten anywhere.

Beyond that, the forums are filled with so much, well... to put it franky, BS, that I don't find them worth reading.

[Realedazed]

Does a small group of players dominate the boards and make other players feel like they can't post.? If you're a habitual non-poster, can I ask you to break that habit and say why?

I can't really say that a there are cliques, either.  But you can tell who the "regulars" are. I'm not a habitual poster since I really don't have much to add to the discussion that hasn't already been said and re-worded and said again.  I'm usually quiet and in the background in real life, too. So, I'll usually chime in a discussion if I have something constructive or interesting to add.

How frustrating is it  when topics gets derailed?  Does it make the board less useful to you?  What would you like to see happen?

It is pretty frustrating. Especially when it is a very interesting topic. It usually takes one joke post to get the ball rolling. But, like someone said above, I think I'm getting used to it.

What do you want/get from the boards?  What needs would you like to see them fulfilling that they're not now?

I love the boards. I get clarification of the help docs and lots RP tips. And the OOC boards are nice for non-Arm related stuff.

What forums are useful/enjoyable and what should be trimmed, if any?

I think they are all useful. If you wanted to combine, I'm thinking :General/World/Ask the players?  Hrm, after that's I'm stuck.

[amoeba]

Does a small group of players dominate the boards and make other players feel like they can't post.? If you're a habitual non-poster, can I ask you to break that habit and say why?

There are some strong personalities that frequent the boards.  I'll leave it at that.

How frustrating is it when topics gets derailed? Does it make the board less useful to you? What would you like to see happen?

To be honest it depends on the derailment.  Most don't bother me too much with the exception of two types.  One is the the personal agenda type.  Someone hijacking a thread, never really addressing the original post, but using the post as a foot in the door to rant about something they want to have changed, or to complain about something they don't like.  The second is the total derailment into total unrelated silliyness.  I like seeing a little humor in the posts, as long as it is somewhat related to the subject. The ooc forum I really don't care.

Oh and to echo other comments. I hate one liner responses.

What do you want/get from the boards? What needs would you like to see them fulfilling that they're not now?

I would like to see a heavily moderated newbie forum, and call it such.  Perhaps a forum where only helpers can respond, and are required to adhere to a strict set of conduct.  One of the better guides I have seen for this are the guidelines set forth by a writers critique group listed here.  Yes, this is a critique group, but much of the content is applicible.  I would also like it so that "for the person that asked a question in the ask the newbie/ ask the staff..." type of posts squelched.

In short I would like to see a place where newbies can ask a question and get a clear hopefully nonconflicting, non insulting answer.  A place where people can feel comfortable asking stupid questions.

What forums are useful/enjoyable and what should be trimmed, if any?

I think the general forum and the world forum seem to blur in content.   I would feel comfortable in combining them.  I still find it hard sometimes to locate old content overall.  The keywords are too similar to do an effective search. One example that comes to mind  is an excellent post someone did where they posted a sample special application.  For the life of me, I can not find that post again.  It would be useful if phpBB had a way of flagging interesting posts.

[Dakkon Black]

I tend to view the GDB like Facehugger.

I skim all of the forums other then my house board and staff announcements which I read like it's compulsory.

When a topic comes up that seems to be new or relevant I read it in other forums, but rarely.

I find that it's mostly because most everything that has been posted there, was discussed before. And even when new topics do appear, it seems to be the same argument that smashed the last one down coming back again.

In the end though, I think they should stay as they are for the most part. I godly portion of what I know about Arm came from the GDB, and though I've never been a big poster on it, I certainly made good use of reading it over the years. It just seems that now, I've seen/heard most of the arguments that come up and it's not as important to go through as it is for a newer player.

[Anonymous]

How frustrating is it when topics gets derailed?

It depends.  There's different types of derailments.  There's the We think your question is silly so we are going to shit all over your thread type of derailment that I find frustrating and insulting to the OP but it rarely happens.  A succession of 3 short quirky tangent posts in the middle of a thread full of content doesn't bother me.

Does it make the board less useful to you?

Nope.  If it's that important to stay on topic I'd just post asking people to please do so.

What would you like to see happen?

Some sort of uniform approach to moderation by the staff as it still seems that there's the occasional different approach between immortals.  In a perfect world there'd be a single moderator for this board and then everyone would have a better chance of knowing what was appropriate instead of a situation where one Immortal sees no problem and another locks a thread.

Locking threads should be an absolute last resort and only the case of a thread devolved into flames in my opinion.  Locking threads runs counter to the whole point of a discussion board if you ask me, especially on a low traffic one such as the GDB.

[Cuusardo]

I tend to make liberal use of the "mark all topics as read" link due to the tendency of threads to degenerate into nothing useful.  A lot of topics also seem to get beat to death, a slew of useless topics always come up now and again (which includes whining and ranting threads), and topics that pop up again and again.

[Rhyden]

I usually find the GDB useful when the staff and sometimes players define really specific rules that have never been made clear in the past.

Other than that, I find nearly all other posts useless in the sense that they're just people's opinions that won't help or change my view of Armageddon.

[Irulan]

I am one of those people that reads the GDB alot, but rarely posts.

I actually do find the GDB to be helpful, and when I was a newer player, it was extremely helpful for me to read about different issues. But, I also had the experience that if I asked questions on the GDB, that it was a very real possiblity that someone would post to say something to make me feel stupid, or that my question was something I -should- have been able to figure out on my own. Some of the people that would post those kinds of posts are not seen posting on the GDB anymore. *cough* Carnage *cough*

Now that I'm a more experienced player, I am finding more and more that the same threads just keep repeating themselves. I usually do not post on them, because a lot of the time people have already beat it to death by the time I get a chance to read them, or have referenced to the sixteen previous threads about the same topic.

The sections that I read religiously are my clan sections, and the Staff Announcements. The other important ones that I hit are General discussion, Code discussion, RP discussion and Ask the Staff. Ones that I generally skip over are OOC chatter/General Clan Talk/Player Announcements.

I like the GDB, it is a good resource both for older players and new players. It is unfortunate when good threads get derailed and lose the trail, but from time to time, the derails actually bring up good points as well. I wish that there was a way to continue on with a derailed discussion, but as a side thread to the original.

As far as moderation is concerned, I'd hate to see more. I think where it is now, is pretty good. We, as players, need to be able to see when a thread is out of control and get it back on track. I hate to see the Imms having to spend time patrolling the GDB, when I'm sure it is more fun for them (and us) when they get to spend their time in game.

Humm...I think that is just about all my two sids worth...
-Irulan

[flurry]

Does a small group of players dominate the boards and make other players feel like they can't post.?

I'd say that this might be true.  There are times when I don't post on a topic because the thread has already degenerated into off-topic nonsense.

How frustrating is it when topics gets derailed?  Does it make the board less useful to you?  What would you like to see happen?

I do find it frustrating.  It makes it less useful in the sense that it means having to wade through the off-topic posts and filter out some of the mean-spirited snarky posts.

One thought that occured to me when reading this thread is that it might be nice if the board had a way to 'alert' for posts that cross the line with flaming, IC info, etc.  That might make moderating easier or at least let the staff know what kinds of things the GDB community find problematic.  I know we -could- email staff, but even with as much of that crap that gets posted, I can't bring myself to email staff and say "hey, check out what this person posted about void mages on this thread."  I would, though, click on an 'alert' flag if that option were available if the post was egregious enough.

What do you want/get from the boards?  What needs would you like to see them fulfilling that they're not now?

Mostly information and reading opinions of staff and other players about Zalanthas and roleplay.

Personally, I'd just like to see less noise, but I'd prefer that be due more to people being more considerate rather than due to heavy moderation.

What forums are useful/enjoyable and what should be trimmed, if any?

I like them all except for the OOC forum.   However, if it keeps the drivel down to a minimum on the other forums, it does serve a good function.

[Rindan]

I don't care how many times someone posts, so long as it is intilligent.  If Swordsman, Tlaloc, Sanvean, Armaddict, or LoD (not a complete list) posted 50 times a day, I would probably read every post because they almost always post something insightful.  There are other people who post a lot that I would block without a second thought if I could.

I don't mind fluid discussions.  If a topic starts on Templar RP and flows to noble RP, I don't really mind all that much.  That is just a fluid conversation.  On the other hand, if a topic starts on Templar RP and it flows to stupid one silly off topic one liners, I get a little irritated.  I wouldn't waste any tears if those got deleted.

One thing that really concerns me is the response to newbie questions.  I can't help be cringe when a newbie asks an innocent and honest question and seven ass holes respond with sarcastic comments about how they should find out IC.  Now, telling someone to find out IC is an okay response for many questions, but it has to be done with some gentle care.  You need to explain why finding out IC is the way to go and maybe give some pointers as to where to start.  I would much rather see newbie questions get no response then seven asshole responses.

I would like to see a newbie board.  Everyone who joins the GDB get access to the newbie board.  Then just add a simple "one strike and you are out policy" on using it.  If you post something sarcastic, assholeish, or simply unhelpful and off topic, that is your one strike and you get the ability to post on that board revoked for a year.  Be strict and use bans from the newbie board liberally.  The threat alone would probably weed out most stupid comments, and the people that post anyways would quickly be weeded out and get their responses deleted.  Further, it would serve as a centralized place for newbies to go check out and see the answers to commonly asked questions.  Newbies could ask questions, get intelligent responses, and all the off topic banter and asshole responses would be kept out.

[Me]

I, for one, never post on the GDB. But I enjoy reading them, I find the suggestions and posts from various players helps me to understand the game world a little better. As for the long bitching posts..I skip it.

Over all, I enjoy the GDB as it is right now.

[ale six]

Does a small group of players dominate the boards and make other players feel like they can't post.? If you're a habitual non-poster, can I ask you to break that habit and say why?

I read a lot but don't post much, partly because I feel like other people can answer questions better than I do and partly because I do sometimes get intimidated that somebody loud and regular might come after my replies with their mighty jaws of flaming doom.

How frustrating is it when topics gets derailed?  Does it make the board less useful to you?  What would you like to see happen?

A bit of derailing is okay, if it relates to the larger topic. Threads about the need for thirst rates to be increased could probably tangent into hunger rates and how easy it is to stay fed, and it wouldn't bother me. But huge derailments, especially when they're just somebody soapboxing, make me skip the rest of the thread.

What do you want/get from the boards?  What needs would you like to see them fulfilling that they're not now?

I read the forums to stay updated, mostly. Sometimes there are good discussions about the game or roleplay that make me analyze my characters a bit and help me feel like I'm playing more consistently. Other times you catch helpful tips that might make your pcs live a little longer.

As far as what I'd like to see the boards do more, I'd love to see more use come out of the clan forums. I tend to feel most connected to my pc's current clan, and I love it when there's useful discussion in those. More IC rumors on clan forums would be great too, but I guess maybe IC rumorboards take care of that.

What forums are useful/enjoyable and what should be trimmed, if any?

I read Staff Announcements and Ask the Staff and my clan forums as top priority. General/Code/RP Discussion and Ask the Players come next, I read them whenever I feel like.

Player Announcements and the APM I don't read much... I figure APM posts could be stuck in OOC chatter and we'd be fine. I guess we need Player Announcements so people can organize their super raider familes of doom and announce when they're leaving/returning, but I don't pay much attention to that stuff.

And OOC chatter I don't read too much, but it's a necessary evil just so we have somewhere to put nonrelevant things.

General Clan Talk seems to have degenerated into two topics only:
1) "How do I join the Byn / where are the Byn recruiters" and
2) "OMG come join d-elf tribe XYZ we are so cool."  


The one thing I would most like to see gone on the GDB are thoughtless posts and people who don't think before posting. I don't want to name names, but please, if your reply is just going to be one and a half mostly irrelevant sentences without proper punctuation or grammar... either fix it or don't post, please?

[jhunter]

I think it's fine the way it is currently. It is much better than it was about a year ago and I'd like it to keep some of the flexibility that it currently has.

I don't believe there are really any "cliques" on the board.

Off-topic posts don't really bother me much so long as people keep it down a bit and don't completely destroy a discussion with post after post of off-topic nonsense. A little is fine and fun at times, alot is rather irritating.

One line answers don't bother me at all. I don't see anything wrong with posting that your thoughts on a particular subject are pretty much identical the ones that have been posted already.

I've found that someone might post something that I hadn't thought of before which is an interesting idea/angle on a subject and sends me off on ideas as well.

I sort of like the idea someone had of a newbie board, that would be a nice way for new players to ease into the community because not everyone, (myself included, who has a tendency to be short with people at times) is as gentle with new people as they could be.

[Bebop]

I do skim the boards and find things useful from time to time, but as one person said topics get beaten to -death- It's like I need to be ready to read pages and pages and pages of information on things like whether or not chain is made of bone or hair?  That topic was like 6 pages long full of posts that were pages long in themselves.  It's like I have an apartment with a bone chain in the desc why does there need to be that long of a discussion on how it was made etc?

I also found that some people are quick to snap at you even people that are obviously new to the game and quite scarcastic, instead of helpful or friendly or accepting one another's opinions.  I generally don't post to much in the GDB because because topics get "over-killed" so quickly.  Lots of long reptetitive posts without people actually saying anything or it turning into bickering.  I like the OOC chat because it just seems more casual and relaxed there.

I also think there should be a newbie forum where any questions regarding the documentation or things like that, as well as an open-minded place to welcome newbs that way people aren't loading up the forums with things like how do you play an elf?  Read the docs.  Such questions would be more tolerable in a forum dedicated to newbie questions and if posted in the wrong area, they could be moved to the Newbie Forum for members who are willing to help out newbs.

I also think that the higher up's IMMS and such should interject more clearly whenever there is a long standing bicker about the way things should be done like certain RP and such.  The IMMs decide karma so in a way they decide how the game should be played as well they are experts on the documentation.  Plus maybe that would end some of the bickering quicker.