If there were a third city-state it would be...

[Arabian Nights]

That's it. I'd just like to hear what ideas others have for a third, pretty different city-state.


Here's one of mine: The city-state would be ruled by an elven sorceror-queen and in this city-state elves would be the majority. All nobility and positions of power would be elves, humans would be considered the lowly scum, like vermin. By law of the sorceror-queen, females hold all positions of power and males are not allowed any sort of open power. To harm a female in any way is a death sentence. No non-elves with magicks are allowed to live. Elven mages are allowed to come and go openly as long as they don't use their powers in a harmful way within the city. Half-elves are slaves and servants, there are no free half-elves within the city.

Or possibly something similar except instead of elves, insert dwarves.

This isn't to be a discussion about whether or not a third city-state should be added. All I want to hear is ideas people have to make a third city-state that would be much different from the existing two.

Just a few ideas of what I'd like to see in one if there was a third city-state.

[Qetesh]

Moved this into World Desc.

[Anonymous]

Considering how elves trust each other less than humans I'd have a hard time accepting an elven city-state of a magnitude anywhere close to Allanak or Tuluk.  I think the closest elves will get to that is the Blackwing Fort or perhaps one of the playable tribes will one day get a village along the lines of Red Storm going.

Allowing elven magickers to use magick is just a recipe for 90% of magicker apps to be elves from that city.  I think there would also be some people who would get a little confused by that and start playing more like Tolkien elves.

I like the idea of a matriarchy, since so far it's been mainly dudes with the big sorceror-king power.

If there was another city state, I'd rather see it not have nobles and be more like Red Storm with templars or some scary equivalent.

A gith village/city would kick incredible amounts of butt especially if the competitive nature of gith was integrated into how the village was run.  Don't like your sergeant?  Kick his ass in a duel and take his job and his weapon.

Plus there would be the required yearly mobilization for invasion.  

[Arabian Nights]

Considering how elves trust each other less than humans I'd have a hard time accepting an elven city-state of a magnitude anywhere close to Allanak or Tuluk.

Heheh, that's exactly what I thought would make it fun. Everyone is constantly trying to screw everyone else over.

[konrad_]

Well, I guess the sex-equality issue would make that kind of city inconsistent with the world.

It looks somewhat inspired by a D&D drow society, but the elves here (at least the city ones) seem to be much different than their D&D cousins (eg "Stealing is an act of courage").

My guess would be a small state nearby any of the cities, perhaps evolving from a village. The main difference against the other ones, would be a greater tolerance with half-elves.

There could be many interesting reasons for that. Perhaps some half-elves protected the place against <insert here hazard/monster>, showing their value, or perhaps it could be some kind of superstition about half-elves and magick, making the commoners fear, but respect them.

I'm not sure if this would be viable, for I have no idea of how many breeds are there, nor how big is the racism against them...

--k

[JollyGreenGiant]

I can't really imagine a city-state that would be all that different from the two present ones that exist.  Elven tribal mentality, dwarven foci, half-giant stupidity, and halfling and gith willingness to simply eat other races make them all fairly unsuitable for creating that type of civilization.  Add to that fact that there's a uniquely human trait that gives them a huge advantage when it comes to the whole "being a sorcerer king" gig.

If we get away from the concept of a city-state a little bit, though, I could see a "city" of sorts created by a council of the elven tribes as an attempt at unity and having common ground.  Instead of being ruled by a single sorcerer king, it would be ruled by a council of elders from each tribe, with the decisions of that council binding law on all the inhabitants of the city.  The population of the city would be largely transient, as tribes or members of tribes came to trade, stayed for various purposes, and then left again.  A small portion of the tribal population would be permanent, the elderly, disabled, and so on.

The city might consist of a series of concentric circles.  The innermost and smallest area would be reserved for the permanent population of the city, the meeting-house where the tribal councils met, and so on.  The next circle outward would be reserved largely for the elven transient population, those tribals who come and go on whatever schedule, as well as quarters for the slave population of the city.  The next ring outward would be a marketplace.  The last ring would be for temporary or permanent dwellers who are non-tribal elves, including city elves, humans, dwarves, and so on.

[RunningMountain]

I'd like to see a city-state that actually has morals and regard for life. Tuluk comes close but I hate tuluk. I want to see a Free City ruled by a powerful SK that gives a lot of freedom to his subjects. These concepts wouldn't be devoid in zalanthas, but everyone thinks they should be.

-RM

[Dalmeth]

I had an idea that came upon me as I was playing once, and while I'm sure it would never happen, it would be nice.

Have some new group of people start arriving from some direction and start building a variety of villages within range of one central fort where the seat of power would reside.  This new society, like every other coherent society, are led by a very powerful sorceror.  Now, here's where things change.

First off, there are about three well-defined casts which the previously mentioned sorceror or even sorceress rules.  First, is the noble-like caste.  They essentially are like nobles in every other city in terms of authority, but are given far more responsibility in the day to day affairs of the society.  As in protecting the city from attacks and all that fun stuff.  Another difference is that they're all elementalists.  They are garnered from the general population at a young age through some kind of test or some such.  Any adult elementalist is killed on sight.

The second caste would be the warrior's caste.  These are the only people allowed to train extensively in weaponry.  They are the major enforcment arm of the population and are given more lavish lifestyles than the average commoner.

Lastly, there are the commoners.  They have only recently been gathered  from various tribes into one culture and haven't been taking it too well.  As previously mentioned, the learning of warfare is restricted, and anyone thought to have progressed to a level of skill where they could be a threat is killed.  Naturally, there are various rebellious elements looking to get back at the ruling caste.

There is the templar-like element to it as well, but they aren't even half as common as templars are in the city-states.  They are a select few chosen from the warrior caste and trained in sorcery.  While not drawing their power directly from the absolute ruler, they are bound in a way that ensures their loyalty.

The best way to describe the society as a whole is a variety of disparate tribes pulled together by a magick-using minority.  The rule is harsh overall, given the tendencies of the commoners.

I had an idea for a new race to go with this, but that seemed like stretching it.

[Delirium]

Kuraciville.  In the Red Desert.

Duh.

[Agent_137]

lawl. Or Red Storm begans to expand east and west and over the sea. They've already got a sorcerer god king, and I hear those things are hard to comeby. I don't know how kurac gets by without one . . . or do they?

[Rindan]

Forget new city states, I dream about remaking the old ones.  Imagine if one day the Dragon shows up and kills the two god kings.  Suddenly templars are powerless, and their sudden weakness practically screams for rebellion.  A templar without his powers is just a guy who can order troops around, and he can only order the soldiers around so long as they want to be ordered around.  Suddenly high ranking military men would be the TRUE power.  Let things run like this for a little while.  

Over time the nobility and the templars power to rule would degrade as military strong men take power.  The problem with military strong men is that they generally don't understand much outside of armed conflict.  The cities would start to break down into disorder as strong men fought against strong men.  The lawless in the streets would begin to rise as no power within either city is able to bring about order and subjugate the population.

So what happens?  If all of a sudden all the gems in Allanak fall off, the not-so-gemmed-anymore might very well get it in their heads that they need to be on top before an angry mob tears them to shreds.  The gem would either have to get their shit in order very quickly and seize control, or be cut down by the army and commoners.  It isn't entirely implausible though that if there were enough powerful gemmed all working together they could seize control.  That said, I would place my money on them all ending up dead.  If the gemmed don't have enough power to rule, and the military is incapable of ruling, who takes over?  

Kurac of course.  Kuraci are shifty bastards.  They wouldn't do it openly at first.  Instead, they might pick a military strong man and prop him up.  Use him to take control and slowly grow their presence until they are openly declared the rulers of Allanak.  The Kuraci rulers of Allanak would be mysterious, but no where as extreme in their opulence as the nobility of old.  If anything, Allanak under Kurac would have an odd dichotomy of being one of the 'freer' and 'fair' places in the known world, but at the same time have some of the most brutal punishments for criminals and a well deserved reputation for people disappearing in ways that make Tuluk seem crude.  Think of it as a relatively 'free' Orwellian society.  Kuraci cults and fanatical Kuraci shock troops would be a dime a dozen.  Think House Arteries from Dune; subtle, violent, brutal, fanatical followers, extreme loyalty, but relatively free and fair their own brutal way.

In Tuluk, the Kadians and the Salarri might set aside their differences to band together to gain control of Tuluk.  They would take over much in the same way as Kurac takes over Allanak by supporting a strong man and eventually claiming power for themselves.  While Kurac would win their city with more subterfuge, the Kadian/Salarr alliance would do it more by blatantly buying people out spending large sums of money.  Tuluki society might remain relatively untouched as Kadian and Salarri family members would take over the position of nobility.  The transition to full control would take longer then Kuracs rise to power if for no other reason then the extra time needed to build a loyal fighting force and the lower overall dependence of the city on its leaders to keep them fed and watered.

So, Kurac owns Allanak, and the Kadians and Salarri own Tuluk.  Shit, what is there not to love about it?  Assassinations would be a damn a dozen as the merchant houses struggle for control of the known world.  The world would boil in conflict.  It would pwn3.

[Twilight]

A city that is at first glance ruled by a single elven tribe, but is in super sekrit fact run by a human psionicist who has "convinced" elves of differing tribes that they are in fact part of the same tribe, and that he is their ruler.

[JollyGreenGiant]

A city that is at first glance ruled by a single elven tribe, but is in super sekrit fact run by a human psionicist who has "convinced" elves of differing tribes that they are in fact part of the same tribe, and that he is their ruler.

That's got a nice twist to it.

[LauraMars]

It is too bad our player base is too small to handle a whole 'nother city state.  Some of these suggestions are interesting.  I like the psionicist one, except it would be the most fun when we all found out about him.  I see something where he gradually loses power and everything disintegrates around his ears.  Might be neat for a long-running plot.

In the meantime, who needs sorcerer kings?  Psshh.  LET'S DESTROY EVERYTHING.

[Kalden]

An elven city-state could exist with an uneasy state of balance. Think the Dark Elf Trilogy of the Forgotten Realms books.

It'd simply be more devious. One tribe might have the upper hand, but it would always have to watch out for the scheming alliances of the smaller, weaker tribes. Nobody could openly attack another tribe, but if nobody sees anything...well, there's not much that can be done.  :wink:

I see it as being very entertaining and very workable.

[Armaddict]

Uhm...so what about a unified elven tribe?

Same way tribes were united before, they can be united again.  That's what would make the leader a sorcerer-king, you know?

[Larrath]

I'd rather have a large gith outpost with only minimal magick present rather than a city-state with a sorcerer king.

I don't know how it is with anyone else, but when I play a magicker, the game always has a somewhat different feel.  It's cool, yes, but I think a good gith outpost with no PC magickers of any sort could help with more mundane grit.  Besides, I would really like to try a gith tribe sometime.

A not-so powerful psionicist who has changed the focus of an elite caste
of dwarves that rule in their name.  Change their focus and from there
they plow along doing their leader's will to the best of their ability.  The
dwarves could be elementalists or possibly sorcerers masquerading
their powers as being from their highlord rather than their own.

A wandering desert tribe stumbles upon some ruins exposed by the
ever shifting desert.  An ancient bugaboo, possibly from the Empire of
the Dragon, offers them shelter from the city states and power of their
own if they will provide it with sacrafice.  The population quickly grows
as they absorb some tribes and sacrafice others and spend most of their
time digging up the ruins (aided by their newly gifted powers).

Another sentient (and probably humanoid) race is discovered living under
the surface of the Known World that was, previously, as ignorant about
the topside world as it was of them.  Pretty much anything can happen,
here.  Except molemen, that's been done to death.

If all else fails we can always fall back on the tried and true, "Unearthed
Nazi war experiements result in modern day uebermensch that want
to take over everything".

I'd rather have a large gith outpost with only minimal magick present rather than a city-state with a sorcerer king.

I don't know how it is with anyone else, but when I play a magicker, the game always has a somewhat different feel.  It's cool, yes, but I think a good gith outpost with no PC magickers of any sort could help with more mundane grit.  Besides, I would really like to try a gith tribe sometime.

A completely mudane outpost run by a non-player race would be unique
and cool.  Without political and social connections to the player races,
though, I have trouble seeing how they'd last long if they didn't have
some magick or psionic based way of protecting their population.

I like the idea, I just don't see it lasting long once the sorcerer kings
or the merchant houses take notice.

[Arabian Nights]

A not-so powerful psionicist who has changed the focus of an elite caste
of dwarves that rule in their name.  Change their focus and from there
they plow along doing their leader's will to the best of their ability.  The
dwarves could be elementalists or possibly sorcerers masquerading
their powers as being from their highlord rather than their own.

A wandering desert tribe stumbles upon some ruins exposed by the
ever shifting desert.  An ancient bugaboo, possibly from the Empire of
the Dragon, offers them shelter from the city states and power of their
own if they will provide it with sacrafice.  The population quickly grows
as they absorb some tribes and sacrafice others and spend most of their
time digging up the ruins (aided by their newly gifted powers).

Another sentient (and probably humanoid) race is discovered living under
the surface of the Known World that was, previously, as ignorant about
the topside world as it was of them.  Pretty much anything can happen,
here.  Except molemen, that's been done to death.

I really like these, especially the first one.

[Larrath]

I'd rather have a large gith outpost with only minimal magick present rather than a city-state with a sorcerer king.

I don't know how it is with anyone else, but when I play a magicker, the game always has a somewhat different feel.  It's cool, yes, but I think a good gith outpost with no PC magickers of any sort could help with more mundane grit.  Besides, I would really like to try a gith tribe sometime.

A completely mudane outpost run by a non-player race would be unique
and cool.  Without political and social connections to the player races,
though, I have trouble seeing how they'd last long if they didn't have
some magick or psionic based way of protecting their population.

I like the idea, I just don't see it lasting long once the sorcerer kings
or the merchant houses take notice.

Well, this is really just assuming that it could have enough players to support itself, since obviously nobody wants mantis hanging around in Tuluk.  Making an area with natural protection against Highlords and merchant houses can't be all that difficult though, as far as my limited understanding goes at least - a few artifacts here, some rune-covered gates there...  Hell, the place could even belong to someone who was a mighty magickal creature but has since been slain or trapped somehow and only the Anti-Tektolnian magicks remain.  As for merchant houses, a few narrow passes and easily defended valleys could do the trick.

I can't really see how it could work out right now, at least on a permanent basis since the playerbase seems spread quite thin to me - after all, I want people to come to Tor or Borsail asking for work and be flat-out denied because the units are all full.  Limiting employment.  Yum.

EDIT: On the other hand, Templar Nazis...  That really does sound promising!  Their sorcerer-king could walk around in a hollowed-out gaj shell with magickal feet, a transparent front and a few repeating crossbows mounted on the sides.
We need this.

[Halaster]

A flying citadel that is a city-state of its own, manned by spirts of angry vestric who were slain in the not-so-well-known Erdlu-Vestric War of the 13th Age.  Mutated beyond normal vestric, they have become so smart, and technology-driven, that their citadel has developed gigantic blue beams of light that destroy everything they touch.  So the angry vestric spirits fly their citadel around, zapping anyone who's ever slain a vestric, wears any vestric clothing, has anything made of feathers, has ever seen a feather, or is an erdlu, or ally to an erdlu.

[Larrath]

A flying citadel that is a city-state of its own, manned by spirts of angry vestric who were slain in the not-so-well-known Erdlu-Vestric War of the 13th Age.  Mutated beyond normal vestric, they have become so smart, and technology-driven, that their citadel has developed gigantic blue beams of light that destroy everything they touch.  So the angry vestric spirits fly their citadel around, zapping anyone who's ever slain a vestric, wears any vestric clothing, has anything made of feathers, has ever seen a feather, or is an erdlu, or ally to an erdlu.

What about people that rape erdlu?

A sentient system of underground caves, led by a clan of Rukkians.  Its plan involves stealing underpants and taking over the world.

[Maybe42or54]

A New Tuluk.
Too many cities already of humans, I think.

[RunningMountain]

Hell there's not that many cities. Only 2 really.